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Is this viable? Cypher + 1-3 Chosen squads who all have Infiltrate. I was thinking of taking three squads of six Chosen a squad with two squads of five plasma guns and one squad of five flamers. Would this be a good strategy? How would you outfit this formation?

superviable and super fun. I tend to pair him with Huron and a large blob of cultists.

Infiltrate the cultists and a fearless character to provide board control and some CC(at least to fix units in combat)

chose i usually run 6 7 8, with flamers, meltas and plasmas respectively. Sometiems i add models to the plasma unit.

Yeah I'd give em some plasma and rhinos and roll up and unload. Does cypher just have a bolt pistol and plasma pistol?

 Exergy wrote:
superviable and super fun. I tend to pair him with Huron and a large blob of cultists.

Infiltrate the cultists and a fearless character to provide board control and some CC(at least to fix units in combat)

chose i usually run 6 7 8, with flamers, meltas and plasmas respectively. Sometiems i add models to the plasma unit.

How is this:

Huron Blackheart with 2x 35-man Cultist squads, each with two flamers, add in two Obliterators. Cypher with 3x 10-man Chosen squads, one with 5x Flamer, one with 5x Meltagun and one with 5x Plasmagun. This all for 1500 points round. Could be a hilarious tactic. Imagine the opponents face when 4-6 squads infiltrate next to his entire army.

 changerofways wrote:
Yeah I'd give em some plasma and rhinos and roll up and unload.

Why give them a rhino? You can infiltrate all three Chosen squads.

 changerofways wrote:
Does cypher just have a bolt pistol and plasma pistol?

He has an 18" bolt pistol and a 12" plasma pistol which he can fire both twice with BS10.

The chosen also get ATSKNF, but no sure if its within 12" of him, or all the time. (still nice anyway, and they use his LD within 12")


Anyway, you want to go silly? take this formation in a SM army (CTA level, but still allowed to ally) that uses the raptors tactics, take the raptor's chapter master issodon (who is a super sternguard that get "master of ambush" warlord trait) with 3 units of sternguard and 2 of scouts.

And your army is now 3 units of infiltrating chosen with cool guns, 2 of scouts, and 3 infiltrating sternguard squads. (just 3, not d3. corrected. also does not have to be sternguard, you can get devs and centurions as well, or anything that does not have AV values. I just prefer sternguard as they mix so well in raptors.)
And two chapter-master level shooty dudes to lead the force that also infiltrate. one of them has a turn 0 shooting attack (yes, before first player moves-something gets hit.)

With a good roll, your entire army will infiltrate, and they will be armed to the teeth with meltas, plasmas, sternguard ammo, etc...
Viable? not sure. hilarious? hell yea.

You may spice up with some deep-striking things, as issodon allows to reroll reserves and has a locator beacon. (and peneltize enemy reserves, and got shrouded. dude is a beast)


EDIT: nevemind the thing that was written in the last lines about DA, that's not legal.

Hah, that does sound hilarious BoomWolf. I might just do that just for the heck of it.

 BoomWolf wrote:
The chosen also get ATSKNF, but no sure if its within 12" of him, or all the time. (still nice anyway, and they use his LD within 12")


Anyway, you want to go silly? take this formation in a SM army (CTA level, but still allowed to ally) that uses the raptors tactics, take the raptor's chapter master issodon (who is a super sternguard that get "master of ambush" warlord trait) with 3 units of sternguard and 2 of scouts.

And your army is now 3 units of infiltrating chosen with cool guns, 2 of scouts, and 3 of sternguards with 1-3 of them also infiltrating.
And two chapter-master level shooty dudes to lead the force that also infiltrate. one of them has a turn 0 shooting attack (yes, before first player moves-something gets hit.)

With a good roll, your entire army will infiltrate, and they will be armed to the teeth with meltas, plasmas, sternguard ammo, etc...
Viable? not sure. hilarious? hell yea.

You may spice up with some deep-striking things, as issodon allows to reroll reserves and has a locator beacon. (and peneltize enemy reserves, and got shrouded. dude is a beast)


EDIT: nevemind the thing that was written in the last lines about DA, that's not legal.

If your meta allows an infiltrating character to infiltrate a squad, then all 3 sternguard units can infiltrate.

I do a similar thing but with spec weapon havocs rather than sternies. 3 havoc squads, 1 which cypher joins and infiltrates, 1 which huron joins and infiltrates and another whoch gets to infiltrate 2/3's of the time... alongside of course 3 infiltrating chosen units!

If your meta does that cheat (yes, its a cheat and completely opposite to rules as written), you can indeed assure infiltration of one additional unit in addition of the 3 infiltrations sternguards (forgot d3 is a houserule, its normally just 3 no questions asked), but cypher could still not join and SM unit to infiltrate it as he is currently a CSM unit, and as such CTA level alliance. and you can't get more CSM units without another allied group (not needed)

You can also take devs rather than sternguard, infiltrating multimeltas are funny. heck, given how OP "master of ambush" is, you can infiltrate even devastator centurions, or if you ally GK into the fry than dreadknights.
Seriusly, who dropped the ball on that warlord trait? its worth it to roll on stratagic for it alone even if the others are useless to you (as it 0 ruins, night fight dosent matter and you don't use reserves-its still the best table simply because of MoA)

 BoomWolf wrote:
If your meta does that cheat (yes, its a cheat and completely opposite to rules as written), you can indeed assure infiltration of one additional unit in addition of the 3 infiltrations sternguards (forgot d3 is a houserule, its normally just 3 no questions asked), but cypher could still not join and SM unit to infiltrate it as he is currently a CSM unit, and as such CTA level alliance. and you can't get more CSM units without another allied group (not needed)

You can also take devs rather than sternguard, infiltrating multimeltas are funny. heck, given how OP "master of ambush" is, you can infiltrate even devastator centurions, or if you ally GK into the fry than dreadknights.
Seriusly, who dropped the ball on that warlord trait? its worth it to roll on stratagic for it alone even if the others are useless to you (as it 0 ruins, night fight dosent matter and you don't use reserves-its still the best table simply because of MoA)

There has been a long debate on that and it was not decided conclusively (or even slightly). A character cannot infiltrate with a unit if he does not infiltrate but says nothing about it being the other way around. The debate is to wether he can pass on his USR to the unit..
Anyhow good call on cypher counting as CSM IF you take the chosen (as he is not considered CSM if he is himself). I had totally forgotten that!

Poly Ranger wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
If your meta does that cheat (yes, its a cheat and completely opposite to rules as written), you can indeed assure infiltration of one additional unit in addition of the 3 infiltrations sternguards (forgot d3 is a houserule, its normally just 3 no questions asked), but cypher could still not join and SM unit to infiltrate it as he is currently a CSM unit, and as such CTA level alliance. and you can't get more CSM units without another allied group (not needed)

You can also take devs rather than sternguard, infiltrating multimeltas are funny. heck, given how OP "master of ambush" is, you can infiltrate even devastator centurions, or if you ally GK into the fry than dreadknights.
Seriusly, who dropped the ball on that warlord trait? its worth it to roll on stratagic for it alone even if the others are useless to you (as it 0 ruins, night fight dosent matter and you don't use reserves-its still the best table simply because of MoA)

There has been a long debate on that and it was not decided conclusively (or even slightly). A character cannot infiltrate with a unit if he does not infiltrate but says nothing about it being the other way around. The debate is to wether he can pass on his USR to the unit..
Anyhow good call on cypher counting as CSM IF you take the chosen (as he is not considered CSM if he is himself). I had totally forgotten that!

and this tactic does not depend on the rule
Huron gives d3 units infilltrate
cypher has infiltrate
the chosen have infilitrate

So at minimum
Cypher
3 units of chosen
1 unit of cultist(which cypher joins)

Huron and the other unit of cultist deploy normally and run foward.

(if Huron rolls 3+)
Cypher
3 units of chosen
2 unit of cultist(which cypher joins, the other huron joins with a conga line back to the deployment zone)

If huron rolls 5+
They all infiltrate.

Why huron, when issodon is stronger, and grant 3 units rather then d3 units infiltrate? sure you mix CSM and SM, but its well worth it. (and i'd much rather infiltrate sternguard/dev centurions than pesky cultists)


And as for the infiltrate subject, yes-the rules say nothing against it, but simple step-by-step following of deployment rules and how IC joining units work leave you in a scenario where you need to deploy the squad you wanted to grant infiltrate to, but has yet gotten the chance to attach the character to it meaning you can't allocate them to infiltration as the IC is not attached, but cannot advance to infiltration time as there is still a non-infiltrating unit not allocated to any deployment type (on board, infiltration, reserve, DS, etc).

So yea, nothing directly forbids. but the order of operations simply never leave a chance to do so.

The order of operations is where the debate really gets fractured. It's been debated elsewhere without conclusion so lets not derail this thread.
I do however really like your Issodon idea! It is excellent since it takes away that game changing single roll of luck right at the very start of the game.

Yes, issodon is cheesy like that.
I wonder when they will remake the badab war and figure out (if they figure out) that currently he is insanely OP.

"I'll just infiltrate my 3 grav centurion/MM devs/whatever teams, thank you." heck, if you want to silly it up, you can ally in dreadknights and infiltrate them too, as long its IoM and has no AV value, it goes.
Heck, you can probably do it with Admech MC squads units if your local allows 30k and 40k mixing.

Just remember that the doing this makes chyper and his chosen CSM, while issodon and his guys SM, so they can't infiltrate 12" of each other either. (as its a type of deployment)
Non-bulky units in issodon's army get the make scout moves afterwards though, so they can come closer if needed.


EDIT: just noticed I accidentally necroed it a bit, sorry.