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Tony Curtis used to say that he'd learned how to kiss a girl by watching Cary Grant at the movies. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he wasn't just sitting behind Grant at the theater — while also noting that he's hardly alone in taking instruction from films.
Movies have always offered a window through which audiences, sitting in the dark, can observe human nature without being observed. A movie theater is where many a boy learned how to make things right, the way John Wayne did in so many pictures, with fists or a gun. Movies taught about sacrificing for the greater good, as Humphrey Bogart did when he sent Ingrid Bergman off with a "here's lookin' at you, kid" in Casablanca. They're a place to learn about standing firm against injustice (with Spencer Tracy in Inherit the Wind), and about standing up for yourself (with Sidney Poitier in A Raisin in the Sun).
All of which was useful for a nation that thought of itself as a melting pot. For generations, newly arrived immigrants had emerged slowly from their ethnic enclaves in big cities, where things were comfortingly just like the old country. Assimilating was hard.
But film — even back when it was silent — was like an instruction manual for the American experience. For a nickel at the nickelodeon, a foreign fellow fresh off the boat could see exactly how American men dressed, how they greeted each other (with a handshake, not with European kisses on each cheek), and, more generally, how people in his newly adopted country behaved. Admittedly, silent films used a kind of shorthand for American behavior — stereotypes, to allow directors to brush in characters quickly without dialogue: women were almost always domestic, delicate and passive, while men were outgoing, strong and active.
“ From John Wayne to Iron Man ... not such a stretch, really. They're icons both, standing tall, fighting for the greater good.
Film's power of suggestion quickly became so influential — so overwhelming in fact — that some argued it should be curbed. In the 1930s, the film industry created a production code that laid out a set of strict rules for filmmakers, banning drunkenness, sex, revenge plots, all forms of immorality and stating explicitly that no movie should throw audience sympathy to the side of wrongdoing.
You couldn't do most of Shakespeare under those rules, but you could have strong, manly, family-friendly heroes. Which meant, as the bluenoses intended, that Hollywood, having been told what it could show, was in effect telling audiences what they should be — portraying human behavior (especially male behavior) in idealized, heroic terms that mere mortals might have trouble living up to.
After World War II, the code started fraying around the edges as competition from television cut into Hollywood's bottom line. What could film offer that TV couldn't? Well, foreign films had nudity; indie films offered rebellion. The studios wanted a piece of that action, so they stopped restricting filmmakers with the Production Code and started alerting audiences through the ratings we know today.
And as soon as the restrictions were gone, leading men in movies became more like men in real life — not always strong or good or forceful. Dustin Hoffman became a huge star, playing a total slacker in The Graduate. Peter Fonda easy-rode his way across America; Paul Newman and Steve McQueen played antiheroes and got labeled the "Kings of Cool." John Travolta was that era's Fred Astaire — all of them recognizable as people, not icons.
All were nuanced, and vulnerable and incapable of being like the men of old Hollywood, because the world had changed too much. Woody Allen demonstrated the change in comically literal terms by conjuring up Bogie to help him man up in Play It Again, Sam.
Testosterone was in full retreat by the 1980s. Movies made for teenagers had teen heroes, not adult males. James Bond started poking fun at the kind of "suave" his predecessors had played straight, and romance devolved from Cary Grant to Hugh Grant — stammering, hesitant, charming in a manner that was utterly without eloquence or confidence.
This led over time to the adult male as overgrown child in Judd Apatow comedies, to dads who turned themselves into Mrs. Doubtfires to rule the roost, to sensitive bad guys, earnest good guys, gay guys who wished they could quit each other, and action heroes like Jason Bourne who literally don't know who they are. Men, in short, became varied, and human, and unambiguously authentic on-screen.
But audiences still want heroes — and more important, audiences are eager to pay to see heroes. Which means Hollywood needed to find a way for males to be heroic again.
The solution, which turned out to be a multibillion-dollar solution: Make them superheroic. Men of Steel, Men of Iron, men with the webslinging power of spiders and with the claws of wolverines — but more important, each and every one a man who cares.
From John Wayne to Iron Man ... not such a stretch, really. They're icons both, standing tall, fighting for the greater good. And yes, they're manly in a way that may not be entirely human, or even something most people would want to live up to. But it sure looks great in Cinemascope.
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I dont know anybody that has heroes. I personally do not aspire to anyone. In class when I was about 7 we had to write about our heroes. We spent weeks brainstorming because most of us did not have heroes and had to find someone to write about. Sucked really bad and was a waste of time. Its also the only time in my memory I was asked who I aspired to be like.
In short, my experience is only our teachers and parents talked of heroes.
Why are the necessary anyway?
Perhaps this is a cultural difference?? I mean, if rugby were as big in the US as it was there, I'd imagine that the more sports conscious child, when asked what they want to be when they grow up would say something like "I want to be the next Dan Carter (or Richie McCaw, etc) Or they'd say more generally, "I want to be an All Black" and if asked why, they'd say, because my favorite player is an All Black.
As for "hero" type people, I agree with Neil DeGrasse Tyson... But I'd throw in there, Dan Carter and Nick Cummins. Russell Wilson of the Seahawks is pretty standup (especially if you make the mistake of comparing him to a guy like Kapernick). I think it was Patrick Kane who had a meme made of his post-Stanley Cup speech a couple of years (it was the same season as the Heat won their NBA title)... and basically they compared the usage of words between him and Lebron (basically, Kane used the word "we" or "team" something like 50 times in his interview/speech, while Lebron used the word "I" or some variation of it about the same amount of time... and Kane only used the word "I" once or twice, whereas Lebron used "we"/"team" only once or twice)
I'd throw in Derek Jeter as well, even though he was a childhood hero of mine, the fact that he's still fairly relevant today is amazing. Especially when you consider, as a 28 year old, I grew up on MJ, Brett Favre, Joe Montana, Steve Young, Marcus Allen (OK, it was toward the end of his career, but still), Barry Sanders, etc. and how many of these guys have retired to relative obscurity, have fallen from grace in some way, etc... Jeter has kept his act clean for 20 or so years, in the biggest media market in the US.
I think that we don't see the same kind of heroes as we used to has many reasons... One, we're all older, so we've seen a bit of life, and are now somewhat jaded. Perhaps we've been burned by a hero in the past, and now "distrust" any heirs to that title? Perhaps the media, as they've sort of done with politics have brought things to such a point where it's damn near impossible for someone to "live up to" the kind of standards that we used to hold for the guys like MJ, Larry Bird, Gretzky, etc... I mean, in our current, ratings driven media "frenzy" what gets better publicity: Peyton Manning donating a bunch of cars to a local charity, or Cristiano Ronaldo throwing a beer at a waitress in a pub he was visiting? (I've not seen either of those examples, I was just making them up as examples)... Perhaps "better publicity" isn't the best word... but I think we all know what would be covered in greater depth on most news outlets.
This thread is a depressing reminder of what's wrong with the world. There were tons of heroes when I was a kid...Michael Jordan was definitely the big one. There were others, but he was #1. Even for kids who weren't into basketball. Neil Armstrong was another big one (guy freakin walked the moon!!). A hero back then showed that there is no limit, if you're willing to take risks. Heroes today tell you there isn't a hooker you can't bang or a drug you can't snort if you're willing to take risks. Honestly, closest kids probably have to a hero these days is the new pope-he's literally Walking Awesome. And not everyone pays attention to the head of the Catholic Church.
Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.
Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.
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timetowaste85 wrote: This thread is a depressing reminder of what's wrong with the world. There were tons of heroes when I was a kid...Michael Jordan was definitely the big one. There were others, but he was #1. Even for kids who weren't into basketball. Neil Armstrong was another big one (guy freakin walked the moon!!). A hero back then showed that there is no limit, if you're willing to take risks. Heroes today tell you there isn't a hooker you can't bang or a drug you can't snort if you're willing to take risks. Honestly, closest kids probably have to a hero these days is the new pope-he's literally Walking Awesome. And not everyone pays attention to the head of the Catholic Church.
Difficulty rating: Lets try not to make this turn into a "Things were much better back in my day" thread. I realize I've already kinda done that, but I don't know how else to ask the question.
Anyways, I'd say that the reason no one has "heroes" anymore is that we know too much about celebrities now thanks to the Information Age. If this was the '70s, Jack White would be one of my heroes - all I'd know about him would be that he's a musical genius. However, this is the 21st century and nothing is really private anymore, so I also know that he's kinda a dick. Same goes for pretty much every celebrity out there right now.
Now, Chris Evans might be one exception, because he is (a) a freaking majestic lion of a man and (b) seems, from all accounts I've seen, to be a straight-up good guy. But I'm sure that bubble will be popped sooner or later too.
daedalus wrote: I grew up with LeVar Burton, Carl Sagan, Will Lee, Don Herbert, even Michael Jordan in a way.
There was also a lot less media options and no internet yet. It is easier to create homogeneity when there are fewer options. It isn't that things were better/worse, there were just less overt options.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/05 18:46:04
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
Keanu Reeves basically gives all his money away to crew members from what I've heard. I know that there is a B-list actor that volunteers regularly as firefighter, says absolutely nothing about, and tries to avoid pictures. I can't remember his name at the moment.
The only way we can ever solve anything is to look in the mirror and find no enemy
trexmeyer wrote: Keanu Reeves basically gives all his money away to crew members from what I've heard. I know that there is a B-list actor that volunteers regularly as firefighter, says absolutely nothing about, and tries to avoid pictures. I can't remember his name at the moment.
Dunno about all that, but in the line of actors, I've read articles on Daniel Craig (current James Bond) where he lambastes other actors/actresses who get into trouble with paparazzi and the law... Basically he says that he lives a simple life with his wife and (possibly, i dunno) kids. You never hear about him, except in movie announcements.
Also, Vin Diesel is a nerd.... So all the gym guys and all the gamers know they can be built in the Temple of Iron, and still throw the d20 around
trexmeyer wrote: Keanu Reeves basically gives all his money away to crew members from what I've heard. I know that there is a B-list actor that volunteers regularly as firefighter, says absolutely nothing about, and tries to avoid pictures. I can't remember his name at the moment.
Dunno about all that, but in the line of actors, I've read articles on Daniel Craig (current James Bond) where he lambastes other actors/actresses who get into trouble with paparazzi and the law... Basically he says that he lives a simple life with his wife and (possibly, i dunno) kids. You never hear about him, except in movie announcements.
Also, Vin Diesel is a nerd.... So all the gym guys and all the gamers know they can be built in the Temple of Iron, and still throw the d20 around
Is Tom Hanks just an expert at never getting caught doing anything bad at all or is he just a good guy? We tried looking up dirt on him at work once and couldn't find anything.
daedalus wrote: I grew up with LeVar Burton, Carl Sagan, Will Lee, Don Herbert, even Michael Jordan in a way. The lessons taught were always about the power of learning and striving to be better than you were.
What do the kids have nowadays? I asked my brother who's significantly younger than me, and he couldn't come up with anyone. Literally had no names. He's 18.
So I ask, who are the heroes? If there are none, where did they go?
Difficulty rating: Lets try not to make this turn into a "Things were much better back in my day" thread. I realize I've already kinda done that, but I don't know how else to ask the question.
Everyone that attempts the ninja warrior course is basically in some kids hero books. Like this lady.
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
The only guys I can think of as personal inspiration for myself are the guys at Achievement Hunter and Roosterteeth. Maybe not world role models but personal ones. Why? They said "I want to play video games for a living" and then went and did it. And they do. And they are successful and popular. Massive entrepreneurial drive and they have great jobs.
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Role models is a better term than heros. Just to pick a few from the top of my head.
Neil Degrasse Tyson: Science Super Star
Emma Watson: On 25 May 2014, Watson graduated from Brown University with a bachelor's degree in English literature and released a cap-and-gown photo on her Twitter account. She has promoted education for girls, visiting Bangladesh and Zambia to do so. In July 2014, she was appointed as a UN Women Goodwill Ambassador.
George Tekai: He is a proponent of LGBT rights and active in state and local politics apart from his continued acting career. He has won several awards and accolades in his work on human rights and Japanese–American relations, including his work with the Japanese American National Museum. I know more about the plight of the Japanese American's treatment during WWII from George than I ever learned elsewhere.
kronk wrote: George Tekai: He is a proponent of LGBT rights and active in state and local politics apart from his continued acting career. He has won several awards and accolades in his work on human rights and Japanese–American relations, including his work with the Japanese American National Museum. I know more about the plight of the Japanese American's treatment during WWII from George than I ever learned elsewhere.
That's a pretty good choice.
I love his cameo in the movie Rat Race. I wish I could find it on Youtube and link it.
"Do you know who I am.... I"M GEORGE TAKEI!"
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/07 17:31:15
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kronk wrote: Role models is a better term than heroes.
What is the difference exactly? OP listed Carl Sagan and you list NDT so where is the line between one being a personal hero and one being a role model?
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
Lance Armstrong is my personal hero, embodying the American way*.
*Blatant troll
Also, I love Holding out for a Hero and Total Eclipse of the Heart.
Prestor Jon wrote: Because children don't have any legal rights until they're adults. A minor is the responsiblity of the parent and has no legal rights except through his/her legal guardian or parent.
kronk wrote: Role models is a better term than heroes.
What is the difference exactly? OP listed Carl Sagan and you list NDT so where is the line between one being a personal hero and one being a role model?
Hero, to me, invokes terms like Hero Worship and images like putting someone on a pedestal. A lofty standard that the average man can't attain.
Role model, to me, is someone to aspire to be more like.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/08/07 15:56:37
kronk wrote: Role models is a better term than heroes.
What is the difference exactly? OP listed Carl Sagan and you list NDT so where is the line between one being a personal hero and one being a role model?
Don't know about kronk, but for me:
Hero: I want to be exactly like him in everything I do, I will copy every aspect of his life.
Role Model: I admire a particular aspect of that person and want to strive to be like the person in that aspect in my own life.
trexmeyer wrote: I know that there is a B-list actor that volunteers regularly as firefighter, says absolutely nothing about, and tries to avoid pictures. I can't remember his name at the moment.
Are you thinking of Steve Buscemi?
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I aspire to one day be as great as Captain Malcom 'Mal' Reynolds.
Really, I have no 'hero', but a few people who encourage me, anyone from authors to just normal people who've beaten something. /shrug
Mandorallen turned back toward the insolently sneering baron. 'My Lord,' The great knight said distantly, 'I find thy face apelike and thy form misshapen. Thy beard, moreover, is an offence against decency, resembling more closely the scabrous fur which doth decorate the hinder portion of a mongrel dog than a proper adornment for a human face. Is it possibly that thy mother, seized by some wild lechery, did dally at some time past with a randy goat?' - Mimbrate Knight Protector Mandorallen.
Excerpt from "Seeress of Kell", Book Five of The Malloreon series by David Eddings.
"You need not fear us, unless you are a dark heart, a vile one who preys on the innocent; I promise, you can’t hide forever in the empty darkness, for we will hunt you down like the animals you are, and pull you into the very bowels of hell." Iron - Within Temptation
trexmeyer wrote: I know that there is a B-list actor that volunteers regularly as firefighter, says absolutely nothing about, and tries to avoid pictures. I can't remember his name at the moment.
Are you thinking of Steve Buscemi?
He's my actual hero.
Edit: Oh, wait. That's Gary Busey. Never mind.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/07 16:02:52
I would've posted a youtube link, but I'm at work and we're blocked from all the cool sites on the 'net.
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Emperor's Eagles (undergoing Chapter reorganization)
Caledonian 95th (undergoing regimental reorganization)
Thousands Sons (undergoing Warband re--- wait, are any of my 40K armies playable?)