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the nauts rival land raiders in cost without the armor. More HP is nice but odds are an AV13 or 14 vehicle is going to get Exploded not Wrecked. I dont think ive ever glanced a land raider to death unless i also caused an Explode in the process, causing collateral damage instead of just being a roadblock from the same fire.

I really feel the nauts should be ~30-50pts cheaper for what they are right now. If they were Assault and had all their guns twinlinked (except their signature shooting gun, since the 'uba shoota' as i like to call it would be a little broken if it was twinlinked lol) then i think i would like it. I would LOVE to field a MANz missile inside this thing....but wtf would you do that for since it wont reach the other side of the table till T3 and now you got a turn the manz are sitting around before they can charge. As of right now the capacity is nothing but a repair shenanigans slot.

Results in!

Mek gunz take a krushin victory! Lootas take second and Battlewagons third. I should point out that BW's may have taken second, but I forgot to include them until someone pointed it out, sooooo...

Now as requested by a fellow dakkanite, the next poll will be.... FORMATIONS!!

Your allowed multiple choices if you have more than one that you like. Also if anyone has an idea for a poll after this one just let me knows

The Blitz Brigade is awesome if you are fighting a 2,000+ point battle. It would have been much more generally useful if it only required three battlewagons.

The Bullyboyz are good, but again, only at high points values.

Mogrok's Bossboys are probably the most useful formation we have. It's fairly cheap, lets us load up on independent characters to lead units and gives a hefty benefit. It's not perfect; the Weirdboy is a fairly duff choice and requiring you to take a Warboss and then make your Warlord a Big Mek is annoying.

Da Red Skull Kommandos would be good if not for 'Da Boss iz Watchin' which makes them hideously vulnerable to failed morale tests.

All the other formations seem to require you to take a lot of sub-par units for little benefit.

Blitz brigade already works at 1750 points, since all you need to do is have dangerous unit in them, three MANz do that job pretty well.

Scout on battlewagons is so good that it's actually worth leaving some support units behind. Guaranteed combat range with anything you feel like in turn 2 is extremely awesome.

Bully boyz main downside is owning fifteen models in the first place. If you do, WS5. fearless and fear makes them good enough to fit into most armies, even footsloggers. Also work incredibly well in combination with a blitz brigade.

Wow. I can't believe how many warbosses like da bully Boyz formation over greentide.

I've played both and bully Boyz has way more holes in it then greentide which is just all around amazing.

Maybe I'm missing something, so I'd love to hear some feedback.

The bully boyz formation has a lot of tactical options, as it has few restrictions.

Mega nobz are good.

Bullyboyz makes them fearless, and +1WS so the thing orks have problems with, morale, doesn't matter, you don't have to worry about mob rule, and the things they are doing they are better at, with WS5 your hitting on 3s versus WS 4.

You aren't required to put them all together, and you can still buy their transport options.

Bullyboyz is basically saying if your going to take a lot of meganobz, why not make them better and fearless for no extra cost and do whatever you were going to do with them in the first place, but you have to buy 3 squads and they each have to have 5 models.

The min cost for bullyboyz without upgrades is 600.

the min cost for greentide without upgrades is 660.

After upgrades the costs get a lot bigger in difference, most people are taking all 10 nobs, and some combination of x powerklaws + y big choppas that adds up to 10, and upgrading the warboss.

You can just buy some trukks for the bullyboyz and be set.

The bully boyz also pairs well with blitz brigade.

They are both good. i think it comes down to more people like to push around 15 models in Mega armor, than 101 models.

blaktoof wrote:
The bully boyz formation has a lot of tactical options, as it has few restrictions.

Mega nobz are good.

Bullyboyz makes them fearless, and +1WS so the thing orks have problems with, morale, doesn't matter, you don't have to worry about mob rule, and the things they are doing they are better at, with WS5 your hitting on 3s versus WS 4.

You aren't required to put them all together, and you can still buy their transport options.

Bullyboyz is basically saying if your going to take a lot of meganobz, why not make them better and fearless for no extra cost and do whatever you were going to do with them in the first place, but you have to buy 3 squads and they each have to have 5 models.

The min cost for bullyboyz without upgrades is 600.

the min cost for greentide without upgrades is 660.

After upgrades the costs get a lot bigger in difference, most people are taking all 10 nobs, and some combination of x powerklaws + y big choppas that adds up to 10, and upgrading the warboss.

You can just buy some trukks for the bullyboyz and be set.

The bully boyz also pairs well with blitz brigade.

They are both good. i think it comes down to more people like to push around 15 models in Mega armor, than 101 models.

They both are very good. I ran Bully Boyz a couple times (had to proxy since I only own 3 Manz D but I still prefer the Green Tide a little bit more. The thing with the Bully Boyz, is their base cost is 600, but their investment skyrockets. Trukks are cheap, yes. But they are too wafer thin to get them anywhere. I don't think my Manz ever get more than 1 turn of movement out of those before they burst, and then have to huff and puff up the field. They then perish to S8 abundance, so their durability is gone. And since I invested so much into 15 bodies...now what do I have to win with?

With Green Tide, you invest quite a bit, but you get MORE out of it. I usually invest about 800 or so points into mine. I get 115 models base (including Warboss and Nobz), then I add the Mega Force Field Big Mek, and a Painboy. I let that horrendous force run wild, while my leftover points is enough to bring some Mek Gunz, some more Boyz to steal objectives in Trukks and for me to have some DeffKopters tag along for surprise attacks and late game objective stealing. A lot of people think "Oh man, you brought just 1 unit, so this means I'll in since you can hold objectives!". That's not all anyone should be bringing. Make it barebones, as durable as possible...and scare the hell out of them while your other dudes smoke cigars and drink beer on objectives. Because they often can't redirect fire onto those backfielders for even a single shot, or the Tide will get even closer...and closer...until it has their entire gunline contested.

i dont have the ghaz supp so all my knowledge is heresay, but the only formation that seems to be all around awesome with no real downsides minus the minimum point being rather high is the battlewagon list. 4-5 wagons is what you want anyway when you do a legitimate wagon list, but bringing 4-5 wagons plus support and the crap inside usually scrapes 1750pts QUICK lol, so if you got a 1250-1500pt game you might not be able to pull it off.
Obviously the MANz formation goes hand in hand with the wagon one. If the points allow, you should have both. If not, probably fill a wagon or two with tankbustas instead lol

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i dont have the ghaz supp so all my knowledge is heresay, but the only formation that seems to be all around awesome with no real downsides minus the minimum point being rather high is the battlewagon list. 4-5 wagons is what you want anyway when you do a legitimate wagon list, but bringing 4-5 wagons plus support and the crap inside usually scrapes 1750pts QUICK lol, so if you got a 1250-1500pt game you might not be able to pull it off.
Obviously the MANz formation goes hand in hand with the wagon one. If the points allow, you should have both. If not, probably fill a wagon or two with tankbustas instead lol

Git dat book!

I agree with you, green tide is very good. I voted for mogroks boss boyz though lol.

However I feel you might be misrepresenting how many points the greentide is as you laid out.

10 squads of 10 is 600 teef right there
+warboss 660 teef
Megaforcefield bigmek puts us up to 770 teef
painboy is no 820 teef. thats without gear on the warboss or any upgrades to the mob (nobz).

Prolly going to pick up some powerklaws, and yeah t 25 points 10 nobz+warboss is +275 pts in powerklaws.

3 bullyboyz in trukks with boarding planks is 750 pts without any upgrades to the MA nobs, which honestly you don't need. The trukks with any luck your going first and are just going flat out first turn, for the 2nd turn assault. You can add 3 painboyz for a total of 900 pts and pick up a few units that sit back like mek gunz/grots to camp your side and then some trukk boyz/bikers/stormboyz something else fast that provides a lot of threats.

I agree that the bullyboyz weakness is the amount of ap2 str7-8 shots we see, yeah str 8 is IDing them and denying FnP but theres probably more plasma doing str6-7 at ap 2, which is enough to make any mega armor nob unhappy. So yeah the bullyboyz unsupported by other units, alhthough good is less of a threat to many lists than greentide.

TAU doing their str8 ap2 blast are happy versus mega armor nobs, firing the same thing into a boyz blob is not quite as fun.

I wasn't misrepresenting and I was trying to recall the number off the top of my head, and was under. Plus I only was counting points for the actual green tide, not the added HQs. Anyway, I don't bring the max of 10 Nobz/Klaws. I actually only take 5 Nobz and Klaws along with the Warboss. Any more than that isn't really needed and is wasted points. So, since I need to get down and technical

Green Tide:

Warboss with PK, Big Bosspole (110)

9 units of 10 boyz and a unit of 15 boyz, only 5 Nobz/Klaws (867)

903 Points: So I was 83 points off just by trying to recall. Not that bad for off the top of my head.

Waaagh detachment:

Big Mek with Mega Field (110)

Painboy (50)

12 Boyz/Nob + Klaw + Pole/Trukk w/ Ram (147)

12 Boyz/Nob + Klaw + Pole/Trukk w/ Ram (147)

5 Nobz/Boss Nob/Klaw/Pole - Trukk/Ram (175)

3 Lobbas (54)

3 Lobbas (54)

3 Kopters (90)

3 Kopters (90)

total: 1782 (edited cost, did math a little wrong so it was higher)

That is my usual Green Tide with assistance. I've won all 4 games I've played against with it thus far. YMMV

Edit: Edited cost as I is bad at math. You still have points to toss into more artillery or more boyz. Solid list, but my costs were not that off for the initial tide.

Its a nasty list /|\ very nice good sir.

a Combo I always thought would be very nasty would be greentide+snikrots red skull kommandos.

Want to try something like this one day:

[Formation-Greentide]
Warboss (big boss pole, choppa of da ragnarok, eavy armor) 104 teef
6x boyz mobs (9 boyz slugga choppa, 1 nob slugga, power klaw) 510 teef
4x boyz mobs (9 boyz slugga choppa, 1 nob slugga, big choppa) 260 teef

= 874 teef

[Formation-Snikrots Kommandos]
Snikrot 60 teef
4 x Kommando Mobs (9 Kommandos, 1 Kommando Nob powerklaw+boss pole) 560 teef

= 620 teef

[Ork Horde Detachment]
Painboy 50 teef
Big Mek KFF 85 teef
Big Mek KFF 85 teef

Grot mob (10 grots, 1 runtherder) 35 teef
Grot mob (10 grots, 1 runtherder) 35 teef

Mek gunz (3 mek gunz, 6+1 grots, 3 ammo runts) 66 teef

= 356 teef
== 1850 teef

Da plan- Grots sit back objectives, mekgunz near one or best fire alley. Bigmeks and painboy join greentide, 2 bigmeks with KFF should cover a lot of the greentide if not all of it, big boss pole gives it fearless. Greentides moves forward, in turn 2+ snikrot and friends come in from behind for the smoosh attack.

blaktoof wrote:
Its a nasty list /|\ very nice good sir.

a Combo I always thought would be very nasty would be greentide+snikrots red skull kommandos.

Want to try something like this one day:

[Formation-Greentide]
Warboss (big boss pole, choppa of da ragnarok, eavy armor) 104 teef
6x boyz mobs (9 boyz slugga choppa, 1 nob slugga, power klaw) 510 teef
4x boyz mobs (9 boyz slugga choppa, 1 nob slugga, big choppa) 260 teef

= 874 teef

[Formation-Snikrots Kommandos]
Snikrot 60 teef
4 x Kommando Mobs (9 Kommandos, 1 Kommando Nob powerklaw+boss pole) 560 teef

= 620 teef

[Ork Horde Detachment]
Painboy 50 teef
Big Mek KFF 85 teef
Big Mek KFF 85 teef

Grot mob (10 grots, 1 runtherder) 35 teef
Grot mob (10 grots, 1 runtherder) 35 teef

Mek gunz (3 mek gunz, 6+1 grots, 3 ammo runts) 66 teef

= 356 teef
== 1850 teef

Da plan- Grots sit back objectives, mekgunz near one or best fire alley. Bigmeks and painboy join greentide, 2 bigmeks with KFF should cover a lot of the greentide if not all of it, big boss pole gives it fearless. Greentides moves forward, in turn 2+ snikrot and friends come in from behind for the smoosh attack.

Thanks! I think I'm done editing. I suck at math and I'm at work, so I keep getting interrupted and getting math wrong. Certain Its all good now.

I ran grots before for cheap back fielders, but they ended up getting picked off by my Tau opponent who didn't like me having them hold 2 objectives. Little guys managed to take out a couple of suits before dieing though > Got to love going to ground in Ruins.

An Ork Horde Detachment has 3 mandatory troops, so that list would be illegal.

What is your guys opinion on the Looted Wagon that got WD rules before the codex hit?
It got a bit cheaper, but the boomgun got downgraded to a killkannon. Is it usable? With or without the boomgun?

 Jidmah wrote:
An Ork Horde Detachment has 3 mandatory troops, so that list would be illegal.

your correct, dropping 2 mek guns for a 3rd grot mob makes it legal.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Bonde wrote:
What is your guys opinion on the Looted Wagon that got WD rules before the codex hit?
It got a bit cheaper, but the boomgun got downgraded to a killkannon. Is it usable? With or without the boomgun?

It got a nice points drop, to make it more viable but the boomgun was significantly better last edition. With all the new mekguns, and bigmek gunz, and improved tankbustas, I don't see the looted wagon boomgun being that useful. Its also got the armor of a rhino which is not a good place to be. I think its better off as a transport for a shooty unit, and putting 3 rokkits/big shootas/skorchas on it. At that point though its not that far from the cost of a battlewagon is the issue.

Results!

Ghazghkull's Bullyboyz take number one with the Blitz Brigade just a vote behind. O.o

People sure like their BW's, makes me wonder if they would have placed better if I hadn't forgot to add them until half way through the heavy support poll...

Oh well! such is the ork way.

Wanna say thanks to all me fellow warbosses for chimin in to make these rankings.

Is there anything else you guys want to rank, like maybe specific wargear or tactics for units?

i still would have voted mek gunz because battlewagons to me are a support unit, not an actual force. Random battlewagon or two isnt going to do jack unless theres 20boyz inside waiting to rush at something or a big blob of tankbustas lookin for a good kill. Its nothing but a chassis for more deadly units.

In comparison, at least the Landraider has some nasty guns on it and fires reliably. Even after it dumps its termies off its a threat that needs to be dealt with. They neutered the one thing battlewagons had to make them useful after transporting: deffrollas.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i still would have voted mek gunz because battlewagons to me are a support unit, not an actual force. Random battlewagon or two isnt going to do jack unless theres 20boyz inside waiting to rush at something or a big blob of tankbustas lookin for a good kill. Its nothing but a chassis for more deadly units.

In comparison, at least the Landraider has some nasty guns on it and fires reliably. Even after it dumps its termies off its a threat that needs to be dealt with. They neutered the one thing battlewagons had to make them useful after transporting: deffrollas.

Ya I'm of the same mind as well. I basically fill up all my heavy slots with mek gunz . Cause dere killy, cheap, and ard as nails just like da boyz!

How about a poll of the Gifts of Gork and Mork? We didn't do that yet, right?

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i still would have voted mek gunz because battlewagons to me are a support unit, not an actual force. Random battlewagon or two isnt going to do jack unless theres 20boyz inside waiting to rush at something or a big blob of tankbustas lookin for a good kill. Its nothing but a chassis for more deadly units.

In comparison, at least the Landraider has some nasty guns on it and fires reliably. Even after it dumps its termies off its a threat that needs to be dealt with. They neutered the one thing battlewagons had to make them useful after transporting: deffrollas.

Battlewagons with rams can still make guaranteed S9 rams. Not as awesome as the deff rolla used to be, but still something you can do. They are also scoring, something to underestimate.

I posted a battlereport of a game, where scoring battlewagons could have won me the game if I hadn't gone on blind charge after a FMC
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/610375.page

blaktoof wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
An Ork Horde Detachment has 3 mandatory troops, so that list would be illegal.

your correct, dropping 2 mek guns for a 3rd grot mob makes it legal.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Bonde wrote:
What is your guys opinion on the Looted Wagon that got WD rules before the codex hit?
It got a bit cheaper, but the boomgun got downgraded to a killkannon. Is it usable? With or without the boomgun?

It got a nice points drop, to make it more viable but the boomgun was significantly better last edition. With all the new mekguns, and bigmek gunz, and improved tankbustas, I don't see the looted wagon boomgun being that useful. Its also got the armor of a rhino which is not a good place to be. I think its better off as a transport for a shooty unit, and putting 3 rokkits/big shootas/skorchas on it. At that point though its not that far from the cost of a battlewagon is the issue.

Well, I think that 67 points for a Rhino hull with a Killkannon mounted on it is pretty decent, since that was almost the price of the old Killkannon. You still get a weapon that your opponent has to deal with. If it gets to fire once and hits something, it could make its points back quite well depending on the target. Otherwise it can be a nice harassing unit. The only issue is that it takes up an entire heavy support slot for just one. I don't play 40K a lot anymore, but I know that if I'm going to, nobody I know is going to allow unbound armies (including myself).

If you could bring looted wagons as either focless (requirements like the HQ mek, where you can bring 1 per some other unit you bring) or werent a heavy slot you'd probably see them quite a bit since theyre even cheaper than mek gunz for the power they bring....technically....but they die WAY easier because of low armor, open-topped unless you spend more points on them, and short ranged.

Hell, i'd rather rely on the Bubble Chukka than a looted wagon with kill kannon. Least the bubblechukka has 36" range and is pretty tough to deal with without an outflanking, deepstriking, or faster-than-my-guys units that can get close with nasty guns or assault. Which also kill the looted wagon, and its easier to snag with said weaknesses.

 Perfect Organism wrote:
How about a poll of the Gifts of Gork and Mork? We didn't do that yet, right?

Ah yes, we haven't done the gifts yet, good suggestion!

Would someone be kind enough to list them all, I'm out of state right now and don't have da books with me.

dead shiny shoota
lucky stikk
da finkin cap
headwoppas killchoppa
gazbag's blitzbike
da fixer upperz

cant think of the last one......

That's all of them. There are only six.

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:
dead shiny shoota
lucky stikk
da finkin cap
headwoppas killchoppa
gazbag's blitzbike
da fixer upperz

cant think of the last one......

Thanks mate! ya for some reason I was thinking there's another one too, but I guess not...

 Perfect Organism wrote:
That's all of them. There are only six.

probably why I caouldnt think of it

..
Or you were thinking of the gifts from Gazghkull supplement? .
Choppa of da ragnarork, mega force field, etc...

Ghazzy supp has other ones but you cant mix and match the two lists so i think that would be a different vote.

While the 'Eadwompa is freakin awesome, i think the Stikk vastly outweighs the potential of the warboss since you can reroll ANYTHING except fnp and stat/leader checks with it. My warboss has been reliably landing all 5 of his PK attacks and wounding all 5 because of that stikk...its just nuts...and of course makes the warbiker unit even stronger too.
Really REALLY wish we could take more than one relic...i want that damn headwompa but the stikk is just too strong...