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 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:

 Perfect Organism wrote:
That's all of them. There are only six.

probably why I couldnt think of it

Lol!

Really REALLY wish we could take more than one relic

I know! that way I can give all my warbosses dead shiny shootas.

actually i was more referring to more than 1 per boss, as in take both the stikk and the headwompa on the same boss. Taking multiples of any of those relics would be a little op lol

 Vineheart01 wrote:
actually i was more referring to more than 1 per boss, as in take both the stikk and the headwompa on the same boss. Taking multiples of any of those relics would be a little op lol

In that case I'll take the stikk and one shiny shoota.

I wish we could too. The only book that seems to allow it is the Waaagh supplement, as it seems to distinctly lack the 1 per model restriction. The only downside, is there is no dirty combos in that one, and you can't mix and match unless you take multiple detachments (Aka no Warboss tanking with his Lucky stikk and a 4++ from a Megafield Mek in order to keep a mobile, durable army instead of Mega Armor/Stikk).

I could see the Stikk/Wompa combo being too good. Especially against MCs. Just sit and reroll until you get that 6, since you probably won't be failing the roll often anyway with 7 Strength (8 on charge).

That seems to me to be by design. The supplement ones can only be taken within the supplement, whereas the codex ones can be taken with other sources so may be an attempt to future proof against some unforeseen OP combos with a later release. Not that cap/stikk/wompa/shoota on one dude wouldnt already be OP

Results!

To little surprise da lucky stikk wins by a landslide. Finkin Cap was runner up with da fixer upperz in a distant third.

On a related note. Do you guys prefer running the finkin cap on bosses or meks? Also, do you prefer the stikk on bikerbosses or MA bosses, assuming that you would put it on a boss and not a mek.

Personally, I'd go finkin cap on meks and da stikk on MA bosses.

i usually only have 1 warboss, finkin' kap is my next pick since regardless of what my mek is doing that game it still helps while the other relics are situational for him. Ded Shiny Shoota isnt that awesome when hes got a SAG or relic bike lol.

For me..lukky still on MA warboss. Finkin cap on eavy armor in boys squad. The warlord traits will benefit the boys much more then the would benefit the MANz. But the still can make a ma warboss a tank.

If I have the points, the still can be pretty damn good to make ws5 boys...but I feel its real strength is re rollable 2+ save.

Does a regular Warboss on foot still have to take MA or be a waste of points?

Not actually a waste of points, but a MA Warboss with Da Lucky Stikk so many leagues better that there is little reason to not take it. At 125 it's quite a steal for a hard-to-kill warlord that also buffs whatever unit he is in. In comparison a warboss with armor, pk and stikk is only 11 points less, but easily killed by many weapons and opponents.

Mine often stays unwounded till the last turn, at which point I start splitting him off to slaughter units without AP2 weaponry. Thanks to I1 you can spend as many rerolls as you want on armor saves until you fail two. If you don't you keep rerolling your to-hit rolls and then your to-wound rolls, for a regular 4-5 S10 AP2 wounds on any target. A warboss without MA can't really compete.

a MA warboss is really only good in a transport.. but with who? Manz? boyz? what say you dakka?

Footboss technically isnt bad, but he isnt really all that much cheaper than a MA boss and has a lot less survivability, especially if you bought da stikk. Both are pretty much always going to be in a trukk or wagon, so speed isnt even an issue.

He goes good in either manz or boyz honestly. i would put him in boyz though since even 3 MANz is plenty of pk'age to own whoever they face, adding a MA boss to them would just make them a bigger target priority for AP2 guns and killing a couple MANz instead of the boss hurts a ton more than a bunch of boyz. Also a painboy which is ALWAYS with a warboss's unit gets his points back a bazillion times over in a boyz unit vs manz

In my current army I run a MA boss with da stikk and a kff mek with da finkin cap. So if I do manage to get infiltrate I put him and the mek in a 30 boyz unit and infiltrate them as close to the enemy as possible with the boss up front to tank wounds, and while the enemy is distracted with that unit I flank the rest of my army up the other side to trap their army in. The rest of my army usually consisting of MANz missiles and bikers mostly.

If I don't get infiltrate then I just throw the boss in my trukk boyz squad and shoot them up.

ive yet to get that infiltrate warlord trait >.< it could make my list soooo much nastier...

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Footboss technically isnt bad, but he isnt really all that much cheaper than a MA boss and has a lot less survivability, especially if you bought da stikk. Both are pretty much always going to be in a trukk or wagon, so speed isnt even an issue.

He goes good in either manz or boyz honestly. i would put him in boyz though since even 3 MANz is plenty of pk'age to own whoever they face, adding a MA boss to them would just make them a bigger target priority for AP2 guns and killing a couple MANz instead of the boss hurts a ton more than a bunch of boyz. Also a painboy which is ALWAYS with a warboss's unit gets his points back a bazillion times over in a boyz unit vs manz

you dont worry about or care about the MA slowing down the boyz at all? I'd love to run a MA warboss with boyz on foot. just always throught the MA slowed him down and made the boyz trip

Footboss technically means he isnt on a bike, it doesnt mean he isnt in a wagon. Yea going literally on foot is dumb with MA since you will never see combat till T4 at best probably later.

Same thing for footnobz. Everyone buys them a wagon but still calls them footnobz.

MA doesnt slow them down for squat when a wagon is involved. If in the off chance the wagon hes in pops turn 1, dump the boyz in a nearby wagon and embark it. You can disembark one unit and embark another the same turn, it just cant be the same unit. Also you cant go flat out but 12" is still better than 6" with no run. Especially with terrain making it worse.

I would like to see a poll of Battlewagon upgrades. There are a bunch of neat things, but I can't decide if they are worth it.

For instance, Grot Riggers on a Battlewagon? I'm leaning toward yes. How about Boarding Planks? I'm leaning toward no. Do you put 4 gunz on it or just 1 or 2? How about a Turret? An extra Kannon for 10 points might be worth it.

My impression is that the optimum battlewagon build looks something like this:
Battlewagon (4 Rokkitz, Grot Riggers, Reinforced Ram)

What does everyone else think?

It really depends.

Ard Case, Stikkbomb Chukka and Red Paint Job are mostly useless.

Extra Armour, Deffrollas, Killkannons and Wreckin Balls don't seem to give you enough for your points.

Grot Riggers seem appealing, but they cost just as much as a Mek, who is better at repairing and potentially adds some killing power.

The range advantage and alternative fire mode mean that the kannon is still a good option even when rokkits are cheaper. Big shootas are still viable too.

Boarding Planks are hard to judge. Depends on what you are loading into the thing, I guess. Obviously pointless with Lootas, but very appealing for Tankbustas or MANs.

Riggers are mandatory to me. Meks have the same odds to repair but youre limited to a fixed number of meks throughout the army depending on how many CADs you brought (usually only 3 meks). Riggers are not a model, so they stay with the wagon even when its full. Drawback is they cant fix any busted parts i.e. guns or immobilizations, but its still very worth it.

Extra Armor....ive never seen that actually be used for any army. the vehicle always either just gets glances, suffers shaken not stunned, or something worse. Stunned is a pretty rare occurrence, least for me.

Stikkbomb Chukka is so pointless right now i dont even know why it exists. EVERYTHING that even wants to assault, and some that dont, that can even fit in the dang thing has stikkbombs by default anyway. Literally the only ork unit that doesnt have it by default are Grots (why are they in a wagon...?) and Warbikers/Koptas which cant be in it anyway. Rest are vehicles.

Deffrolla isnt a "bad" choice but its nothing more than a point dump atm. If you got 5pts lying around, get it, if you need those 5pts somewhere else just leave it at home. I say 5pts because if you dont have a ram you are as dumb as a grot my friend lol. 5pt difference between the two.

Killkannon wouldnt be bad if it had S8 and/or better range. At 24" the battlewagon is no longer an AV14 vehicle since SOMETHING will pop its av12 sides in a heartbeat.
Wrecking ball is a shooting attack with a 3" range. Unless its a trukk, this is almost always a snapfire. In theory its awesome but not on a wagon since its not fast.

Boarding Planks are iffy. I plan on taking them every time i use a wagon but i usually end up dropping them for point issues since 15pts for 2" charge isnt TOO big a deal, but it is definitely nice. I still prefer the old "drive-by" planks of old

Due to the nature of the wagon odds are it will always be snapfiring most of its guns, so i wouldnt take anything other than 2 bigshootas (remember, the 3rd/4th are on the side so why would you get them..). A kannon isnt a bad idea if you got a few points left, since you can usually fire 1 weapon at BS2 and if it lands it'll do some damage. Same range as bigshootas too so theres that. I wouldnt waste points on a lobba or zzap though.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Wrecking ball is a shooting attack with a 3" range. Unless its a trukk, this is almost always a snapfire. In theory its awesome but not on a wagon since its not fast.

Man, I thought Wrecking Ball auto hit. It is a shooting attack? At BS2? Not worth it.

Nope, unless they change it to state otherwise anything given a range profile is assumed to be a ranged weapon. Previously it just said it automatically hit a vehicle within 2", but it was only 1 attack now its D3. Previously it just said what it did, now its listed like any other weapon so its no longer just a special rule.

tag8833 wrote:
I would like to see a poll of Battlewagon upgrades.

Done!




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also it's multiple choice, so vote for the ones you think are da best!

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Due to the nature of the wagon odds are it will always be snapfiring most of its guns, so i wouldnt take anything other than 2 bigshootas (remember, the 3rd/4th are on the side so why would you get them..). A kannon isnt a bad idea if you got a few points left, since you can usually fire 1 weapon at BS2 and if it lands it'll do some damage. Same range as bigshootas too so theres that. I wouldnt waste points on a lobba or zzap though.

I was thinking since Battle Wagons may end up snap shooting anyways, Rokkits would be better as that makes them anti-air. A very limited anti air, but it might ground a flyrant or glance a flier.

RE: the firing arc. I see where you are coming from. So right now I'm leaning toward two Rokkits on top mounted turrets and a Kannon on a Turret. That would give it 3 S8 AP3 shots at nearly 360 degree firing arc, which means that two battle wagons are usually going to force a grounding test on a FMC. In other situations, the Kannon can fire the blast, and then Snap shoot the two Rokkits. It isn't deadly, but for 20 points on something I'm taking anyways, it seems worth it.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Riggers are mandatory to me. Meks have the same odds to repair but youre limited to a fixed number of meks throughout the army depending on how many CADs you brought (usually only 3 meks). Riggers are not a model, so they stay with the wagon even when its full. Drawback is they cant fix any busted parts i.e. guns or immobilizations, but its still very worth it.

Personally, I have it the other way around. Unless you bring the blitz brigade, you'll usually have just as many meks as battelwagons anyways, and they cost 5 points less for the same thing while you're embarked. Afterwards, battlewagons tend to be too much trouble to kill for my opponents, so they just leave them be.
When disembarked they are eating challenges, which really has become my top way to handle stuff that's stronger than me in close combat. Daemon Prince on warpspeed? Challenge with nob/mek, kill with warboss. Chapter master? Challenge with mek, kill with nob. Hive tyrant? Have him chew on a mek and a couple of boyz while warboss and nob powerklaw him to death. Karandras? While the mek inspects the scorpion claw from up close, the nob simply ignores his 2+ armor.

Stikkbomb Chukka is so pointless right now i dont even know why it exists. EVERYTHING that even wants to assault, and some that dont, that can even fit in the dang thing has stikkbombs by default anyway. Literally the only ork unit that doesnt have it by default are Grots (why are they in a wagon...?) and Warbikers/Koptas which cant be in it anyway. Rest are vehicles.

It allows the vehicle itself to throw a grenade so... still unimpressive, but not completely useless.

Wrecking ball is a shooting attack with a 3" range. Unless its a trukk, this is almost always a snapfire. In theory its awesome but not on a wagon since its not fast.

I've also found that due to the size of a battlewagon, it's very difficult to get in to a position where you can actually use the wrecking ball in the first place. Since you must stay 1" away from enemy models, you have 2" maneuvering space at most.

Boarding Planks are iffy. I plan on taking them every time i use a wagon but i usually end up dropping them for point issues since 15pts for 2" charge isnt TOO big a deal, but it is definitely nice. I still prefer the old "drive-by" planks of old

I never leave home without them and they have won games for me. 2" additional charge range is enough to make you reembark whenever you can't charge anything. A battlewagon can control a huge area with planks, since you are pretty much gauranteed to move your boyz 14" next turn, not including rolled charge range. That beats moving+running IMO, especially when terrain needs to be crossed. It enables you to hold off your Waaagh! for turn 3 or 4 and makes it near impossible to escape from orks, even if your army consist of nothing but fast skimmers (and nobody does that, right? ). If you manage to roll the +1" charge/run range from the strategic table, it becomes bonkers. I tabled a screamer star army due to being able to charge 15+2d6" on my first turn and took out five screamers and a herald before he even had a chance to take a peek at his grimoire.

Personally, I don't take any weapons on my battlewagons. The new codex simply has so many other options I'd rather spend points on than on another rouge big shoota plonking away at whatever.

Very valid points Jidmah, and thats usually what my mek is doing lol. even if im not running wagons or any armor i still bring the little gits because they protect my nobs from challenges. Vastly worth the 15pts for them, especially against big bugs.

I actually never even took into consideration of the BW size for the wrecking ball, probably because i dont even know WHERE it sits on the vehicle lol (seriously GW just give us templates for firing arcs already per vehicle...). i would assume where the klaw normally sits but you can technically have both so.... what now? lol

So....the wagon can throw a grenade? Ok....what does it sacrifice to throw it since theres no rules for vehicles ignoring the "instead of normal weapons" rule for throwing a grenade lol. Despite im pretty sure its suppose to add it to total weapons, nothing says that.

Holy crap i never even thought about that turn 1 assault strat! Wagon 6" + Disembark 6" + Planks 2" = 14" up the board already. Especially with 'Ere We Go! its much more likely we get a longer charge off (ive been getting regular 9+ charges since new dex dropped, with a couple bogies obviously). Ok i need to dust off my wagons rofl i am so tempted to field 5 MANz plus a MA Boss and try this out.

My wrecking balls are glued to the slightly angled piece between passenger compartment and driver compartment on the right - which actually is a lot more reach than you'd get from a turret mounting, but still useless.

I basically glued them there years ago because I liked the look of the bit, but didn't see a reason to put it on the trukks. It's most prominent role is knocking over models, getting stuck to terrain and silly jokes about marines running face-first into the wrecking ball when assaulting the battlewagon.

Haha thats what the wrecking ball outta be, enables the vehicle to retaliate to charging units.

 Jidmah wrote:
It's most prominent role is knocking over models, getting stuck to terrain and silly jokes about marines running face-first into the wrecking ball when assaulting the battlewagon.

Lol, they should make that a new rule for the wrecking ball. Anyone, friend or enemy, that comes within like 4 inches of it has to make an initiative test otherwise they take a S9 hit.

Reinforced ram wins!

I guess boarding planks are waaaay more popular than I thought, may have to try them...

Got a new idea for a poll probably should have lead with this one

let me know whatcha think.

In the topic of Ballz, I was messing around last night that spams transports and uses them as my primary AT.
I ended up with somethink like this:
Blitz Brigade: Ram, Big Shoota, Riggers 650pts
Warboss MA 100pts
3x 20/18 Boys Nob Claw 453 pts In wagons
3x 10 Boys Nob Claw Truck w/Ball, Rokkit 405pts
2x MANz 240pts In wagons

Thats a hefty amount of S9 hits between the wagon rams, the wrecking ballz on the trucks and the 12 PKs. and you still have 90 boys or so to back it up.

Im not 100% on how ballz work in game whether you measure from the weapon to check range or the hull, and if you are at all able to hit flyers with it.