Tyranid Tactica on how to defeat Space Marine tactical squads

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**SHUPPET**

With so much AP2 cc (every MC) the Marines will never be hard to bring down. They will however get good returbs on powerfists. But the unit that has killed the most Marine infantry for me is very simply the Exocrine. I run mine Living Artillery, TL AP2 large blast is insane and aces everything including Terminators. For Bikes who can jink to practically guarantee their save, short of cover ignoring, the best option will be massed Dakka that doesn't trade extra shots for an AP value. Luckily we have this out the ass, and both Dakkafexes and Devilgants will get great returns shooting Marines.

**DarkStarSabre**

lliu wrote:
ductvader wrote:
...everything kills tacticals.
Not everything kills terminators, and It even works on a battle suit team like the broadsides.

To be perfectly fair Terminators are horrendously vulnerable to weight of fire. If you bury anything in a pile of dice it will die. Tyranids get the added comedy value advantage that our pile of dice also tends to have high strength and be twin linked as well for even more hits and even more wounds.

How do you deal with a tactical squad?

Well, generally the same way we deal with anything. Bury it in twin linked brainleech devourer shots and mop up survivors. If the Marines choose to combat squad it gets somewhat easier.

**lliu**

tag8833 wrote:
To back up and respond to the original poster. The Tyranid model that has killed more Tac marine for me than any other is the Dakkafex. It can lay on many wounds, and they will fail several saves in shooting, and then it can charge the squad to finish off in assault. Generally a Dakkafex has little to fear from Tac marines in assault.

Another unit that murders Marines by the dozen is the Shrikes. I usually run them as a 3 man squad outfitted like this:
Shrike (Rending Claws, Flesh Hooks, Devourer)
Shrike (Rending Claws, Flesh Hooks, Devourer)
Shrike (Bonesword + Lash Whip, Flesh Hooks, Scything Talons)

That unit is mobile enough to get to assault, and once there, the BS + LW Shrike does most of the work, and the others are mainly ablative wounds. This unit is a common synapse support unit for my army, but now the Malanthrope may be taking its place in many of my lists. In a recent game VS Drop Pod Marines that unit killed 15 Sternguard, and 20 Tactical Marines. By the end, it was only the BS + LW, but I was using Gaunts to eat overwatch and tank some wounds.

The last unit that has racked up a large kill count of Tacticals is the Tyrannofex. I always put a thorax weapon on it, specifically Electroshock grubs. Between the Torrent, and the other template, it can kill 2 -3 marines, and then it has nothing to fear at all from Marines in assault, and so can assault to finish them off. This unit lacks mobility, and so works best against Drop Pod marines.

Everything in the codex kills marines. I play Drop Pod marines frequently. I have a much easier time killing the marines than I do the Drop Pods. I also run into Rhino spam, and Land Raider spam often. Once the marines are out of their metal boxes they die easily. But opening up those tin cans is more problematic.

t-fexes were included in the army list I made above. It's sad the space marines aren't the kick-ass unit they are in the books.

**SHUPPET**

They are! They are one of the best armies in the game and it's through infantry n bike infantry with no real reliance on vehicles other than for transport. Sure they die, but if they didn't it wouldn't be balanced.

**lliu**

SHUPPET wrote:
They are! They are one of the best armies in the game and it's through infantry n bike infantry with no real reliance on vehicles other than for transport. Sure they die, but if they didn't it wouldn't be balanced.

that gets an exalt!

**dmthomas7**

Why is there any discussion on killing tactical marines? I didn't know that tactical marines were the thorn in my tyranids side. I understand the OP has had a really effective time with his combination to kill them, but it is far from the most effective means to that end. The warriors are much more reliable then the genestealers with either whips or fleshhooks. either way and they reliably strike at their initiative when charging into terrain. Genestealers are not useless but they don't compete well with other troops. They at least need a pts drop and could really benefit from a better armor save. They really need rending to go off to hit hard but on a 6 it just isn't reliable like you need from that big a block of pts. The cost per model is just horrible for them being a complete one trick pony. I like bringing a couple minimum size units with a broodlord to help buffer my psychic pool. Yet, even that costs more then I would like. If you really need a dedicated CC troop why not just bring cheaper toxic hormagaunts. 20 of those on the charge will nock over almost a whole tac squad by themselves. Genestealers work but they are not cheap or durable enough to be effective. I want to use them, but the rest of the army just does not mesh well with them.

**Zach**

Shoot them with devourers.

Thats it.

Unless you've got a heirophant. In which case, Bioplasma torrent.

**lliu**

Iechine wrote:
Shoot them with devourers.

Thats it.

Unless you've got a heirophant. In which case, Bioplasma torrent.

Mwahahahaha! The hierophant costs more than most armies do, in money, I mean. Very effective tho.

**coredump**

lliu wrote:
IThe best way is to have three warriors with lash bones surround a group of devilgants and gene stealers and shoot at the tactical squad. If they're not wiped out, then send the warriors and genestealers to wipe them out..

So let me get this straight... your tactic is to use 3 different units, costing about 400pts, make them travel together and then use them to deal with a 175pt unit of mediocre quality....???

**Feasible**

lliu wrote:
barnowl wrote:
30 basic guants is bad for marines. Cheaper and on the average 30 bolt pistols will thin the squad quite well.
not thinning, obliratin'

Idk much about Nids but 30 Bolts Pistol shots at BS2 kills 1.66 Marines. at BS3 you kill less than 2.5. Really thats not much damage.

**Jancoran**

Attack their Leadership. That's what I would say is the number one goal. Genestealers and Psyker stuff should be able to impact that.

**DarkStarSabre**

Feasible wrote:
lliu wrote:
barnowl wrote:
30 basic guants is bad for marines. Cheaper and on the average 30 bolt pistols will thin the squad quite well.
not thinning, obliratin'

Idk much about Nids but 30 Bolts Pistol shots at BS2 kills 1.66 Marines. at BS3 you kill less than 2.5. Really thats not much damage.

With devourer gaunts, at a similar points (So, you're probably looking at about 20 to be near the 150ish point mark) you'd be calculating 60 BS3 S4 shots.

Though really, I have no clue why this thread has come about...you will rarely see 10 man Tac squads fielded as a single unit now. Not with Objective Secured in the game and the fact that Transports count as Troops with it as well. I mean, who would field one somewhat unwieldy blob when you could combat squad and effectively have 3 OS units for the price of one?

And really, if Marines are Combat squadding? Tyranids have -never- really had a problem with 5 man squads of Marines. No no, the risk with Marines is not their durability or the fact they exist.

It's the fact they can combat squad and take drop pods (which also score and have OS) in an edition where objectives remain the thing that wins games. Think the BAO showed that Marine MSU has come back big time with this edition...

**lliu**

Tyranids, CONSSSUUUUUUUUMMMMMMMMMMMMMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!,

**Asmodas**

Jancoran wrote:
Attack their Leadership. That's what I would say is the number one goal. Genestealers and Psyker stuff should be able to impact that.

Probably not a good idea unless you get it for free (such as with a Barbed Strangler or a LAN). SMs are always high LD units, and have ATSKNF, so attacks on their Leadership are not likely to do much. Instead, just burn them down with Twin-Linked Devourers and Biovore pie plates. They'll fail saves eventually.

**xttz**

posted in totally the wrong thread, yay

**Jancoran**

Asmodas wrote:
Jancoran wrote:
Attack their Leadership. That's what I would say is the number one goal. Genestealers and Psyker stuff should be able to impact that.

Probably not a good idea unless you get it for free (such as with a Barbed Strangler or a LAN). SMs are always high LD units, and have ATSKNF, so attacks on their Leadership are not likely to do much. Instead, just burn them down with Twin-Linked Devourers and Biovore pie plates. They'll fail saves eventually.

Leadership is the easiest stat to attack i nthe game. So I dont know if thats caught on or not, but I have one heck of a hey day doing it. Non-fearless armies (and Chaos Daemons) can be profoundly affected by LD attacks.

**SHUPPET**

So as Tyranids, exactly how do you recommend you do this?

Pinning and stuff?

Not arguing just not exactly sure what you are suggesting

**lliu**

Devilgants rock!

**Shingen**

Raveners and Shrikes mince them quite nicely.

**ORicK**

Anything can take down marines indeed, especially if carying firepower.

The worst choice would be the genestealer though.
I love Genestealers, they were the reason i started this army back in the day they were the name of the army.

But they are just not good now, they need WAY too much support to do well and, allthough i don't like it, it's easier and more reliable to take something else.

I do like warriors, always have, probably always will. But i field 4 units of 4-5 models, always carry a gun (VERY flexible, it works like 2 space marines in 1 model), and that gives my whole army synapse. And yes, the S8+ templates are not nice, but i see to it that shooting my warriors is not the most logical choice with all the gaunts and a few big bugs coming closer too.
Lost all my warriors just once in... ever...
I have always focused on models that have firepower too: flexibility. Tyranids are quite good at assault anyway.

I never liked units that are assault only, like hormagaunts; way too predictable and inflexible. Or the predictability of flyrants, tervigons, gargoyles. Don't like it.

**locarno24**

Gerst wrote:
lliu wrote:
2. My genestealers are epic.

Ladies and gentlemen, may I present the counterargument of the year.

Hey. Genestealers are epic.

More seriously, I've had some good use out of them recently with hunting packs. This is game-specific, because it requires a ruin/building heavy cityfight board but in that environment they're quite scary; the cover save from ruins does a lot to mitigate their fragility and their ability to deploy 6" away from the enemy, charge turn 1, and start with 'preferred enemy (those dudes over there)' makes them a lot nastier than their basic equivalents....