Is anyone else dissapointed with the new SW codex?

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**TheKbob**

Bulldogging wrote:
Honestly if GW was any sort of competent gaming company, they would do frequent erratas to fix balance issues(for free).

That came off more bashing of GW than I meant. I enjoy 40k, but they could do a much better job with balance.

Instead of the errata/FAQs they currently have that dropped still relevant FAQs and require their own errata to correct mistakes in the errata.

**Bulldogging**

TheKbob wrote:
Bulldogging wrote:
Honestly if GW was any sort of competent gaming company, they would do frequent erratas to fix balance issues(for free).

That came off more bashing of GW than I meant. I enjoy 40k, but they could do a much better job with balance.

Instead of the errata/FAQs they currently have that dropped still relevant FAQs and require their own errata to correct mistakes in the errata.

Xzibit was hired as the new CEO.

**TheKbob**

Bulldogging wrote:

Xzibit was hired as the new CEO.

Nah, he's been on contract for consulting for awhile. It's how we got Dreadknights and Centurions... Yo, Dawg...

**Random Dude**

BlaxicanX wrote:
Sillycybin wrote:
All I am saying is that the heldrake's current profile shouldn't be more expensive, nothing about the turret mounting.

Fair enough.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Except as been proven it could move its head as it wills, it's a Daemon Engine and all that.

Sad thing is even with the 360 Chaos was near the tail end of tournament wins, with SoB ahead of them even.

Also we are, haven't you read any CSM topic?

It's a sad state of affairs, yeah. On the other hand though, I think that if the power-level of the last four codices is any indication of how the 7th edition meta is going to look, CSM may be able to make a come back. They match up quite fairy with Tyranids, Guard, Orks and Space Wolves.

... a man can hope, anyway.

While not being extremely powerful like Eldar, the most recent recent releases (excluding Tyranids) seem to have good internal balance which bodes well for the game.

**anyeri**

Toofast wrote:
For 250 points you get grav centurions that spit out 15 shots per turn, wounding on armor save and re rolling wounds. The difference is the centurions don't have to make it across the table to get those 15 attacks and they have a better armor save. I don't see how TWC are suddenly a game changer. They're better than they were, but still not the death star unit other codexes have access to.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Space marines +1 -grav guns, thunder cannons, centurions, combat squads, chapter tactics like bikes as troops...
Do the math hammer on that and you get approximately space marines -3.

First, do you have any inv save, no?, thats what i was thinking, good luck trying to kill a mob of boyz with that, even with a single nob with pk your centurion unit fall.
Besides that fact, i never talk about a game changer or death star, i was talking about a good murder unit i build within 20 min reading the new codex, they have their downs, yes, like the centurions, they have con and pros, but thats why i put a synerge with the swiftclaws (bikes) i dont pla c:sm, so i dont know the synerge with the centurions.
Conclusion, i never writte about a death star, i am talking about good units with good builts instead of whining

they arent speesh marines +1, they are different, they are space wolves, kings of the close quarter combat

**Backfire**

DOOMONYOU wrote:

Terminators have lost some weapon options. Namely replacing storm bolter with storm shield, this invalidates some of my terminator models that have storm shield and axe/sword rather than hammer.
(I feel this is making them to in line with codex marines with SS/hammer and twin claw profiles)

This is really lame. When does GW learn not to invalidate people's model collections??

And apparently, Wolf Guard Terminators no longer can Pod in, but Teleport like other Terminators. That's a huge big nerf, since teleporting is essentially a suicide. As if the Terminators weren't bad enough already.

My pal has a Loganwing army with Terminators w/power weapons with Drop pods, it was moderately effective but all but useless now. Yeah, he's pretty pissed.

**Paradigm**

Backfire wrote:
DOOMONYOU wrote:

Terminators have lost some weapon options. Namely replacing storm bolter with storm shield, this invalidates some of my terminator models that have storm shield and axe/sword rather than hammer.
(I feel this is making them to in line with codex marines with SS/hammer and twin claw profiles)

This is really lame. When does GW learn not to invalidate people's model collections??

And apparently, Wolf Guard Terminators no longer can Pod in, but Teleport like other Terminators. That's a huge big nerf, since teleporting is essentially a suicide. As if the Terminators weren't bad enough already.

My pal has a Loganwing army with Terminators w/power weapons with Drop pods, it was moderately effective but all but useless now. Yeah, he's pretty pissed.

You can now take Pods in Fast Attack. With all-termies he'll be playing unbound, so can take as many pods as he needs.

**Tehjonny**

Backfire wrote:
DOOMONYOU wrote:

Terminators have lost some weapon options. Namely replacing storm bolter with storm shield, this invalidates some of my terminator models that have storm shield and axe/sword rather than hammer.
(I feel this is making them to in line with codex marines with SS/hammer and twin claw profiles)

This is really lame. When does GW learn not to invalidate people's model collections??

And apparently, Wolf Guard Terminators no longer can Pod in, but Teleport like other Terminators. That's a huge big nerf, since teleporting is essentially a suicide. As if the Terminators weren't bad enough already.

My pal has a Loganwing army with Terminators w/power weapons with Drop pods, it was moderately effective but all but useless now. Yeah, he's pretty pissed.

They can no longer take Drop pods, but they can take Stormwolfs. Flying assault craft with lots of weapons. Seems ok to me really. I've had the book a couple of days and been toying around with my list relative to the new codex. We are all going to need to buy Stormwolfs and Stormfangs. That's it really lol. GW need to be selling those £49 models...

That is slightly annoying, but it is going to make our army SO much better when we do get those fliers. Either two Swolfs or Swolf/Sfang combo in any 2000 pt game.

Admittedly LF's are no longer as good, and I painstakingly acquired many many missile launcher dudes over the past few years...

**pm713**

I like it. The only things I miss are just plain unreasonable. Well that and my bolter/sniper scouts.

**Random Dude**

I like Tehjonny's sig. At first I wanted to play Space Wolves because of the Viking aspect, but now they're just silly. I settled on Orks because they still have the best fluff.

**Backfire**

Paradigm wrote:

You can now take Pods in Fast Attack. With all-termies he'll be playing unbound, so can take as many pods as he needs.

Unbound? Thought that Logan still made Wolf Guard troops?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tehjonny wrote:

They can no longer take Drop pods, but they can take Stormwolfs. Flying assault craft with lots of weapons. Seems ok to me really.

He doesn't like them, and in any case, can't afford them.

**Puscifer**

Tehjonny wrote:
Backfire wrote:
DOOMONYOU wrote:

Terminators have lost some weapon options. Namely replacing storm bolter with storm shield, this invalidates some of my terminator models that have storm shield and axe/sword rather than hammer.
(I feel this is making them to in line with codex marines with SS/hammer and twin claw profiles)

This is really lame. When does GW learn not to invalidate people's model collections??

And apparently, Wolf Guard Terminators no longer can Pod in, but Teleport like other Terminators. That's a huge big nerf, since teleporting is essentially a suicide. As if the Terminators weren't bad enough already.

My pal has a Loganwing army with Terminators w/power weapons with Drop pods, it was moderately effective but all but useless now. Yeah, he's pretty pissed.

They can no longer take Drop pods, but they can take Stormwolfs. Flying assault craft with lots of weapons. Seems ok to me really. I've had the book a couple of days and been toying around with my list relative to the new codex. We are all going to need to buy Stormwolfs and Stormfangs. That's it really lol. GW need to be selling those £49 models...

That is slightly annoying, but it is going to make our army SO much better when we do get those fliers. Either two Swolfs or Swolf/Sfang combo in any 2000 pt game.

Admittedly LF's are no longer as good, and I painstakingly acquired many many missile launcher dudes over the past few years...

I agree here. Except for LF. They are still real good, if a little expensive. I'm still planning on taking two units with Plasma Cannon and Lascannon.

**Jayden63**

Most Logan wings that I saw totally ignored the FA section. Well, this Comdex allows you to take up to three drop pods as fast attack. So he just takes those and pats his termis in them. The left over units now teleport in using homing beacons to safely show up. Sounds like a good way to get the most out of an old build.

And if anyone expects their army to remain unchanged when a new Comdex comes out they haven't been in the game very long at all. Its something we all have had to deal with.

**Byte**

Tehjonny wrote:
Backfire wrote:
DOOMONYOU wrote:

Terminators have lost some weapon options. Namely replacing storm bolter with storm shield, this invalidates some of my terminator models that have storm shield and axe/sword rather than hammer.
(I feel this is making them to in line with codex marines with SS/hammer and twin claw profiles)

This is really lame. When does GW learn not to invalidate people's model collections??

And apparently, Wolf Guard Terminators no longer can Pod in, but Teleport like other Terminators. That's a huge big nerf, since teleporting is essentially a suicide. As if the Terminators weren't bad enough already.

My pal has a Loganwing army with Terminators w/power weapons with Drop pods, it was moderately effective but all but useless now. Yeah, he's pretty pissed.

They can no longer take Drop pods, but they can take Stormwolfs. Flying assault craft with lots of weapons. Seems ok to me really. I've had the book a couple of days and been toying around with my list relative to the new codex. We are all going to need to buy Stormwolfs and Stormfangs. That's it really lol. GW need to be selling those £49 models...

That is slightly annoying, but it is going to make our army SO much better when we do get those fliers. Either two Swolfs or Swolf/Sfang combo in any 2000 pt game.

Admittedly LF's are no longer as good, and I painstakingly acquired many many missile launcher dudes over the past few years...

He can still take them as FA options.

**AllSeeingSkink**

Backfire wrote:
Paradigm wrote:

You can now take Pods in Fast Attack. With all-termies he'll be playing unbound, so can take as many pods as he needs.

Unbound? Thought that Logan still made Wolf Guard troops?

Nope, if you want to make a Loganwing now, it will be an unbound loganwing (unless the new supplement lets you do it).

**Tehjonny**

Random Dude wrote:
DaddyWarcrimes wrote:
I'd call my reaction "underwhelmed". The new format is wretched. The editing is as poor as usual.

The loss of a purchasable Eternal Warrior turns our beat stick HQs into JV scrubs like Chaos Lords.

On the other hand, Ulrik is going to be godly as a support character, as will Njal. Our fire support dreadnoughts got a little bit cheaper. Our Wolf Guard Terminators got a little cheaper. Long Fangs with rocket launchers got more expensive but lascannons got cheaper. Vindicators (which were never good for a short ranged army) got more expensive while Predators got a lot cheaper. Wolf Scouts became a total waste of a slot, but we were going to fill that slot with Wolf Guard and dreadnoughts anyway.

Oh, and who likes filling their army with Lone Wolves? I know I'll be bringing 2 or 3 with just a power sword to lurk around amidst the Lascannoneers as counter-assault support units.

It's a book of gains and losses, that just happens to be extremely poorly laid out and edited, and really, really shiny. It's not AM, but it's also not Tyranids.

So what HQs are worth taking now?

I think:

Harald, Njal as the two main named chars that are worth it.

Rune Priests.

That's about it :p.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Puscifer wrote:
Tehjonny wrote:
Backfire wrote:
DOOMONYOU wrote:

Terminators have lost some weapon options. Namely replacing storm bolter with storm shield, this invalidates some of my terminator models that have storm shield and axe/sword rather than hammer.
(I feel this is making them to in line with codex marines with SS/hammer and twin claw profiles)

This is really lame. When does GW learn not to invalidate people's model collections??

And apparently, Wolf Guard Terminators no longer can Pod in, but Teleport like other Terminators. That's a huge big nerf, since teleporting is essentially a suicide. As if the Terminators weren't bad enough already.

My pal has a Loganwing army with Terminators w/power weapons with Drop pods, it was moderately effective but all but useless now. Yeah, he's pretty pissed.

They can no longer take Drop pods, but they can take Stormwolfs. Flying assault craft with lots of weapons. Seems ok to me really. I've had the book a couple of days and been toying around with my list relative to the new codex. We are all going to need to buy Stormwolfs and Stormfangs. That's it really lol. GW need to be selling those £49 models...

That is slightly annoying, but it is going to make our army SO much better when we do get those fliers. Either two Swolfs or Swolf/Sfang combo in any 2000 pt game.

Admittedly LF's are no longer as good, and I painstakingly acquired many many missile launcher dudes over the past few years...

I agree here. Except for LF. They are still real good, if a little expensive. I'm still planning on taking two units with Plasma Cannon and Lascannon.

See how you get on mate - I think with the new army, you're going to be getting up in grills far more readily than previously. Might make those LF's backfield hangers, but admittedly at the moment I have no idea what will happen. I do like Multi-Melta Drop-pod suicide squads though...:p.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Backfire wrote:
Paradigm wrote:

You can now take Pods in Fast Attack. With all-termies he'll be playing unbound, so can take as many pods as he needs.

Unbound? Thought that Logan still made Wolf Guard troops?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tehjonny wrote:

They can no longer take Drop pods, but they can take Stormwolfs. Flying assault craft with lots of weapons. Seems ok to me really.

He doesn't like them, and in any case, can't afford them.

Well he is gonna have to make do with deepstriking then. They rarely go wrong if you pick the right spot (nowhere near a table edge...).

**Vermis**

After reading this topic I have to ask if 'flavourful rules' means 'high power for low cost'? 'Cos I'm struggling to see what else it can mean, here.

Space Wolves are supposed to be Space Marines with a nordic flavor.

Not vikings with a Space Marine flavor.

Everything about the Logan Chariot is awful.
This, a thousand time this.

Yup. In fact I barely get much kind of nordic flavour off space wolves anyway, beyond the occasional rune or generic bit of knotwork. They're not vikings - or even Hagar the Horrible - in spaaace; they're wolf fetishists in spaaace. Anyone who thinks space wolves are viking-like and the flying wolf bathtub adequately represents a longboat, needs a bit of education.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Random Dude wrote:
jonolikespie wrote:
Random Dude wrote:

12 year olds are GW's main client base.

Actually there is no way to know that, they don't do market research.

There are these things called jokes...

Not sure if being obtuse... But jokes and market research aside, there are a lot of factors that indicate that 40K goes after the kiddy demographic.

Wilytank wrote:
Blacksails wrote:

No one is saying you can't or shouldn't have fun playing 40k, but calling it a beer and pretzels game is pretty absurd.

My friends and I were playing some casual games. One of them was drinking a lot of beer and was wasted throughout this one game against another guy. He kept cheating himself and somehow still won.

There were also pretzels involved. I know because I ate them all.

Therefore, everyone who doesn't think 40k should be associated with beer and pretzels needs to reevaluate their outlook on life.

You, on the other hand: good on you for being deliberately obtuse. Sure beats thinking of anything worthwhile to say, huh?

**easysauce**

I wanted to get into SW's before, but found the codex lacking and unfluffy as the best lists were all basically shooty spam missles lists.

the new dex is a huge improvement,

**ZebioLizard2**

While I'm not a space wolf fan, I am rather intensely jealous of the Company of the Great Wolf Detachment in the Supplement.

4 HQ, 8 Elite slots, 3 troops, All Characters, Wolf Guard, and Thunder Wolf Cavalry get +1WS and Warlord reroll on the warlord chart.

Oh and just to Crib Chaos, they both get forced Challenges..But they get preferred enemy in it!

**nosferatu1001**

Harald is a pretty good twc lord, survivable and not expensive.

**Nuwisha**

I had 30 wulfen models... for my 13th Company Army.

I miss that army, so many fleas.

**Anpu42**

Nuwisha wrote:
I had 30 wulfen models... for my 13th Company Army.

I miss that army, so many fleas.

I would say make them all Wolf Guard lead by a Wolf Priest with a Stone, that should give the same affect. Maybe replace the Bolt Pistol with Power Weapons.

**Freman Bloodglaive**

Buy them all a single Wolf Claw. S5, AP3, shred seems appropriate for a Wulfen.

**the_scotsman**

No, because I own a biker squadron and an assault marine squadron.

**streamdragon**

Anpu42 wrote:
Nuwisha wrote:
I had 30 wulfen models... for my 13th Company Army.

I miss that army, so many fleas.

I would say make them all Wolf Guard lead by a Wolf Priest with a Stone, that should give the same affect. Maybe replace the Bolt Pistol with Power Weapons.

I'm just going with Blood Claws. The old fluff for Wulfen had Wolf Priests leading them most of the time, so my Wolf Priest leading them makes perfect sense. Some of the models still have Bolt Pistols, which is all Blood Claws get (unless you give them special weapons, naturally). Murderous rampaging melee unit led by a Wolf Priest? Sounds like Wulfen!

Also, for Logan Wing fans, the Champions of Fenris supplement has most of the answers you need. The Company of the Great Wolf detachment has 0 mandatory troops, and 8 elite slots (2 of which are mandatory). You still don't get ObSec, but all your Wolf Guard do get a free +1 WS.

**anyeri**

streamdragon wrote:
Anpu42 wrote:
Nuwisha wrote:
I had 30 wulfen models... for my 13th Company Army.

I miss that army, so many fleas.

I would say make them all Wolf Guard lead by a Wolf Priest with a Stone, that should give the same affect. Maybe replace the Bolt Pistol with Power Weapons.

I'm just going with Blood Claws. The old fluff for Wulfen had Wolf Priests leading them most of the time, so my Wolf Priest leading them makes perfect sense. Some of the models still have Bolt Pistols, which is all Blood Claws get (unless you give them special weapons, naturally). Murderous rampaging melee unit led by a Wolf Priest? Sounds like Wulfen!

Also, for Logan Wing fans, the Champions of Fenris supplement has most of the answers you need. The Company of the Great Wolf detachment has 0 mandatory troops, and 8 elite slots (2 of which are mandatory). You still don't get ObSec, but all your Wolf Guard do get a free +1 WS.

That it a murderous idea, a pack of 15 bloodclaws lead by one wolfpriest with the wulfen stone, they are 60 attacks s5 on the charge, and if you joint one wolfguard with a wolfclaw, you have 3 attacks s6 ap3 shred more on the charge, a true blender, a little expensibe, maybe, but they are space marines at the end, i mean Sv3+, ATSKNF, S4 with rage

**TheKbob**

Outside of the almost "so plain it's silly" name of Herald, him and Ulrik are probably the two HQs I'd take. Solid TWC lord and a good buff HQ. If you could still make a true Bearlord, I'd go for that and Urlik.

**Anpu42**

TheKbob wrote:
Outside of the almost "so plain it's silly" name of Herald, him and Ulrik are probably the two HQs I'd take. Solid TWC lord and a good buff HQ. If you could still make a true Bearlord, I'd go for that and Urlik.

That is nice that you can say that about Ulrik now

**tyrannosaurus**

As I said in N&R I love the Grimnar chariot. For me the whole 'GRIMDARK take it seriously' attitude is much more childish than a tongue in cheek approach to miniature design in what is a game of toy soldiers at the end of the day, and gets back to GWs roots. Best model since the Knight Titan imo.

**AllSeeingSkink**

tyrannosaurus wrote:
As I said in N&R I love the Grimnar chariot. For me the whole 'GRIMDARK take it seriously' attitude is much more childish than a tongue in cheek approach to miniature design in what is a game of toy soldiers at the end of the day, and gets back to GWs roots. Best model since the Knight Titan imo.

I think trying to call other peoples' attitude childish is childish.

We all have our limits. To me, there's nothing tongue in cheek about Santa Claws, it's just silly, not tongue in cheek silly.