Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

If trazyn is warlod in an unbound list, treat all necron models as lychguard. In addition independant characters in his ally detachment are treated as necron lords for the purpose of surrogate hosts. trazyn will revive with wounds equal to the replaced models wounds

Flayed ones disappear forever

Gauss weapons have a stacking effect if enough hit a unit. If a unit is hit 20+ times by gauss weapons in a single turn the next turn the unit suffers -1 to their armor save for that turn.

New unit: super scourge doomsday genocide death beam launcher cannon v2.5

No! You stay away from my Flayed Ones.
I just got 20 of them and I want to field them for the coming years.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Sure, if you ignore challenges. And GW tends to nerf the overpowered mechanics hard. See Jaws of the World Wolf.

Question:
9 ASM and a Sergeant charge into a mob with MSS-Lord.
Which model will hit itself and its unit?

Why? Tesla getting bonuses on snapshots does not fit common sense or game mechanics. Other effects that normally trigger on a 6 to hit, like precision shot, don't work on snapshots, so what makes Necrons so special?

So? How many rules do we have that actually do something special on a to-hit of 6? At the moment it's 1:1.
It doesn't make sense for Precision Shots to work on Snap Shotting, since Snap Shots are shots that you can't really aim for.
Tesla has nothing to do with aiming, it's about lightning chaining around.

A mere 10 point increase is not really going to help balance them at all.

Perhaps, but you can throw them all with the trash if you add a 38% increase.

6D6 Krak missiles at BS6 was balanced back when Destroyer weapons always ignored saves, and when they were an Apoc only unit. Destroyer got nerfed, with no points drops, so why did the 6D6 attack stay the same?

Because the number of attacks are fine?
Maybe a drop in AP together with a drop in point-cost?

Obelisk- give it quantum shielding. Fixed.

And then what? People are still not going to use it.
If I want AA, I'll take my Pylon that suddenly only fires at Flyers.

 Sigvatr wrote:


- No Matt Ward.
- Matt Ward being kept away from the codex with an extremely long stick. A sharp one, preferably.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/609856.page#7106550

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:


- No Matt Ward.
- Matt Ward being kept away from the codex with an extremely long stick. A sharp one, preferably.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/609856.page#7106550

Agreed.

There may yet be hope my Trucron brother.

Don't be too happy.
Now we'll get the same fluff but with a shittier rule-writer.

 Dylanj94 wrote:
Gauss weapons have a stacking effect if enough hit a unit. If a unit is hit 20+ times by gauss weapons in a single turn the next turn the unit suffers -1 to their armor save for that turn.

Now all I want is a big gun that shoots scarabs.

Kangodo wrote:
Don't be too happy.
Now we'll get the same fluff but with a shittier rule-writer.

Or fluff writer, Kelly wrote the Ultramarines as gods in that one book vs the Necrons.

Give me Pariahs back.

Just a few more options really.
HQ wise i find them pretty damn good.

Troops wise though, just seems a bit plain with the weapons.
Even orks have access to upgraded weapons.

Also, destroyers need some kind of a fix.
As it stands they are pretty fragile for a hefty price tag, even more so when upgraded to a heavy.

Flayed ones need a bit of use for something.

Lychguard and triarch need some form of use.
Both are dedicated CC units, but neither are even close to solid at the role.
A jump in both A and I would be nice though as hitting 1st is 1 thing, but hitting 1st with barely any attacks seems worthless.

Pariahs should absolutely be back. They were perfect. They weren't good models, but they fit perfectly. The Necron's main weakness is The Warp and Pariahs fit perectly into that gap as a countermeans to enemy Psykers. It makes so much sense from a fluff perspective and ditching them just showed that Ward did not care for a coherent concept.

Pariahs should be back definitely.

Just replace Lych Guard with Pariahs. Same models bar the shields and nobody will miss them anyway.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Give me Pariahs back.

I've heard multiple people say how awesome it would be if they were a new anti-Psyker model.
Would be awesome if they became a new Royal Court-model.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Or fluff writer, Kelly wrote the Ultramarines as gods in that one book vs the Necrons.

Damnos? Yeah.. that was.. painful to read.
If it were up to him, each Codex would be filled with Battle Reports on how awesome the Ultramarines are.
The worst part was how they killed the C'tan in that book.. Painful to read.

I like Lychguard...

I can agree that Pariah's should come back, but Lychguard need not be excised for that.

So pretty much what I understand is that necron players want their good units to stay the way that they are and their bad units to be improved. Meanwhile, everyone who plays against necrons wants their good units nerfed and their bad units to stay the same. Hmmmm, just like every other release.

Personally, I'd like to see MSS removed and replaced with a useful melee option. Basically give them some sort of protocol which would up their WS and initiative so that they could fight on equal terms with other models. Maybe also lower the price a bit.

Also asking for RP to be removed is like asking for drop pods to be removed. Yes it's a very annoying rule to fight against, but its not overpowered.

Give us back the pariahs.

My experience with Necrons is that the opponent's threat assessment is way off.
From this forum and conversations with players there are three things that people see as overpowered:
-MSS
-Reanimation Protocols and Resurrection Orbs
-Gauss

The usual response when I do the math and explain the 'real issues' (like zooming flyers that can disembark scoring Units, Barges being "slightly" too cheap and Wraiths having almost no weakness) is something along the lines of "Lol, Necrons are all overpowered. You just don't want to see that."
That's despite Necrons doing good at tournaments, but not too good.
It's even more frustrating when those things come from players that usually play against Tau/Eldar.

The "big evil three" - as I like to call them - sound ridiculously overpowered, but really aren't if you do the math and know how to counter it.
Army-wide FNP, as some suggest it, would be much stronger than RP but it would also destroy the fluff.
Nearly any good CC-item would probably beat MSS, but it'd be less cool.

I am perfectly happy with removing overpowered stuff.
But I don't want to remove stuff that sound more awesome than it actually is, just to have it replaced with a stronger option that is less Necron-like.

Kangodo wrote:
My experience with Necrons is that the opponent's threat assessment is way off.
From this forum and conversations with players there are three things that people see as overpowered:
-MSS
-Reanimation Protocols and Resurrection Orbs
-Gauss

The usual response when I do the math and explain the 'real issues' (like zooming flyers that can disembark scoring Units, Barges being "slightly" too cheap and Wraiths having almost no weakness) is something along the lines of "Lol, Necrons are all overpowered. You just don't want to see that."
That's despite Necrons doing good at tournaments, but not too good.
It's even more frustrating when those things come from players that usually play against Tau/Eldar.

The "big evil three" - as I like to call them - sound ridiculously overpowered, but really aren't if you do the math and know how to counter it.
Army-wide FNP, as some suggest it, would be much stronger than RP but it would also destroy the fluff.
Nearly any good CC-item would probably beat MSS, but it'd be less cool.

I am perfectly happy with removing overpowered stuff.
But I don't want to remove stuff that sound more awesome than it actually is, just to have it replaced with a stronger option that is less Necron-like.

While the other less focused on issues are still very real issues, I think you are glossing over how jacked up the "big evil three" can be in certain situations. MSS don't impact a Guard, Tau, or even Eldar armies, but a Chaos Marine, SW, Chaos Daemon, or Ork army can get completely hosed by it. Its about the match up. Shooty armies don't care about MSS, but for an assault army (or one that is forced ot issue challenges), they can be pretty obnoxious, especially given how cheap they are when coupled with a warscythe.

RP/EV is a bit OP in the fact that it allows Necrons (and their characters) a way to save against casualties that remove the model without inflicting wounds, allow the Necron units to be rearranged in an opponent's own phase (to their advantage), and the rules simply don't mesh well with the current rule set as there are simply too many conflicts. Heck, returning to the WBB rule would be an improvement, but the mechanic is still too wonky and needs to be overhauled completely. My suggestion for FNP was just that, a suggestion, an alternative using the existing special rules we have instead of trying to create something completely out of left field. I fail to see how using a modified FNP mechanic "ruins the fluff". Its a rule mechanic, fluff wise, it doesn't impact anything in the fluff (FNP="Oh, I blew a hole in that Necron warrior, but look, he just stood right back up" versus Base RP= "Oh, I blew a hole in that Necron warrior...<1 second later>....Oh look, he just stood right back up"

Gauss I don't really personally have a major problem with, but I can understand why alot of people hate it. Its very annoying to watch a 140 points worth of warriors hull a 230 point LR to death in one turn, especially given how easy it is to teleport warriors squads around. To me, its more of a problem with the whole Glancing rule to begin with (IMO vehicles should get a save against glancing hits).

But you are right, NS embarking/disembarking rules need to be changed, at least make the disembarking unit snap fire. Barges are too cheap, but I think its a given that they will see a points increase. Wraiths do have a small weakness (being T4), but it requires basically either a dumb Necron player or a castled up shooty army to really exploit it. To me, a simple points increase is warranted, or drop them down to 1 wound, either one would fix them. All three of those problem areas are easy to fix, while fixing MSS, RP/EV, or Gauss is going to be a bit trickier. How do you still make them worthwhile AND nerf them to a level where opposing players don't just roll their eyes everytime the rule is called upon (something I find myself doing waaaay to much against my regular Necron opponent)?

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
Its very annoying to watch a 140 points worth of warriors hull a 230 point LR to death in one turn, especially given how easy it is to teleport warriors squads around. To me, its more of a problem with the whole Glancing rule to begin with (IMO vehicles should get a save against glancing hits).

Ehm...that's a unit of 10 Necron Warriors. At 24'', that's 10 shots and thus 7 hits - to destroy the LR, you'd have to roll 4 6s with these 7 dice and...why doesn't the LR have cover or use smoke launchers? I'm not doing the math for 12'' as...well..if you let a unit of Necron Warriors get into 12'', the problem's with you, not the unit itself

 Sigvatr wrote:

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
Its very annoying to watch a 140 points worth of warriors hull a 230 point LR to death in one turn, especially given how easy it is to teleport warriors squads around. To me, its more of a problem with the whole Glancing rule to begin with (IMO vehicles should get a save against glancing hits).

Ehm...that's a unit of 10 Necron Warriors. At 24'', that's 10 shots and thus 7 hits - to destroy the LR, you'd have to roll 4 6s with these 7 dice and...why doesn't the LR have cover or use smoke launchers? I'm not doing the math for 12'' as...well..if you let a unit of Necron Warriors get into 12'', the problem's with you, not the unit itself

Well, its not that difficult to move large blocks of warriors around the table so they can get into rapid fire range. But admittedly, its an extreme example that I have only personally ever seen happen once (much to my dismay). More often than not, that small warrior squad does the final 1-2 HP in a turn to finish off the LR. Also, you have to consider that LRs are assault vehicles primarily, so its not hard for anything to get into rapid fire range if the LR is being used in that manner.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Ehm...that's a unit of 10 Necron Warriors. At 24'', that's 10 shots and thus 7 hits - to destroy the LR, you'd have to roll 4 6s with these 7 dice and...why doesn't the LR have cover or use smoke launchers? I'm not doing the math for 12'' as...well..if you let a unit of Necron Warriors get into 12'', the problem's with you, not the unit itself

Yeah, I think a lot of people exaggerate the anti-vehicle potential of warriors (and gauss in general).

Personally, even though my armies include a lot of gauss, I find that it's rarely what destroys vehicles - usually it just strips off the last hull point after my Storm Crypteks or Annihilation Barges have done most of the work.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:

Well, its not that difficult to move large blocks of warriors around the table so they can get into rapid fire range.

Actually, it kinda is. Unless the enemy is kind enough to park their land raider opposite your warriors, then they'll frequently lack both the speed and manoeuvrability to get near it.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
More often than not, that small warrior squad does the final 1-2 HP in a turn to finish off the LR.

Yeah, that's what I've found too.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
Also, you have to consider that LRs are assault vehicles primarily, so its not hard for anything to get into rapid fire range if the LR is being used in that manner.

Indeed. Especially since LRs frequently carry terminators or other elite assault units - so moving within 12" to destroy it this way could easily doom your entire warrior squad.

I would never voluntarily let my Necrons near a LR. The Heavy Flamer alone will deal so much damage and if the content assaults - good night, sweet prince.

I concur with the Gauss part. Gauss can be deadly to vehicles, but more often than not, it takes more than one turn to wreck a vehicle. Unless they're in the danger zone.

Space Wolves have so many special rules and special-snowflake units that I find it laughable that they have any room to complain about Necrons, and I don't even play Necrons.

 Psienesis wrote:
Space Wolves have so many special rules and special-snowflake units that I find it laughable that they have any room to complain about Necrons, and I don't even play Necrons.

While I don't play SW, the new codex is not bad at all from what I've read of it. It seems to be very balanced externally (points costs are more in line with other similar armies) and internally (there seem to be alot of decent and useful units without any one thing completely overshadowing most of the others). While the 5th edition codex was full of special snowflake goodness, this new one seems to be far more reasonable, they balanced out the overly good units like Grey Hunters and Long Fangs, while beefing up a few others to make them more useful, like venerable dreads and blood claws. They even added a new weapon type that looks to be decent but not so OMG powerful that it will cause rage (could be wrong in actual practice though )

I'm hoping GW does the same sort of treatment for Necrons. I play against them alot, and Necrons have more than their fair share of special snowflake units and rules that I'd like to see balanced out a bit more, and they have so many units that never get used but look so cool. As I said in a previous post, I find myself rolling my eyes alot whenever I play against my regular Necron opponent, and I hate that.

I'd like to be able to make an army of entirely Canoptek units with no RP.

A cheap Troops choice like everyone else has, perhaps something like a Canoptek Automoton, would be cool as well.

We just need a Scarab themed Overlord for scarabs as troops. OS Scarabs would be an awfully hilarious/dumb thing.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:


While the other less focused on issues are still very real issues, I think you are glossing over how jacked up the "big evil three" can be in certain situations. MSS don't impact a Guard, Tau, or even Eldar armies, but a Chaos Marine, SW, Chaos Daemon, or Ork army can get completely hosed by it. Its about the match up. Shooty armies don't care about MSS, but for an assault army (or one that is forced ot issue challenges), they can be pretty obnoxious, especially given how cheap they are when coupled with a warscythe.

I will say that as a Chaos Marine player, MSS feel like they're designed to target CSM. Our codex encourages (forces) us to make or accept challenges with our characters. This means that for 15 points necron players get at worst a 50% chance to kill of our leadership. Maybe if fearless negated MSS it wouldn't be so bad.

He could be Overlord Mykey The Multimillennial Mechanic.

He was, in the Age of Flesh, a simple, lowly mechanic within his Lord's domain, but, over the passing of aeons, was assigned Overseer of the Tomb's repair functions and command of its Scarabs.

As things went on, he lost his mind, and began to view his Scarabs as an entire Dynasty, the true path of the Necrons. So he boxed the rest of his Dynasty as "failures" and went on to command his Scarab and Spyder legions in a quest to repair ALL the things.

 Psienesis wrote:
He could be Overlord Mykey The Multimillennial Mechanic.

He was, in the Age of Flesh, a simple, lowly mechanic within his Lord's domain, but, over the passing of aeons, was assigned Overseer of the Tomb's repair functions and command of its Scarabs.

As things went on, he lost his mind, and began to view his Scarabs as an entire Dynasty, the true path of the Necrons. So he boxed the rest of his Dynasty as "failures" and went on to command his Scarab and Spyder legions in a quest to repair ALL the things.

Bob the builder!

 evil_kiwi_60 wrote:
I will say that as a Chaos Marine player, MSS feel like they're designed to target CSM. Our codex encourages (forces) us to make or accept challenges with our characters. This means that for 15 points necron players get at worst a 50% chance to kill of our leadership. Maybe if fearless negated MSS it wouldn't be so bad.

So? Charge them!
It's your turn, so first you force them to activate MSS and THEN you challenge, keeping your awesome Character out of harms way.

Decent rules or points for my damn lychguard.

Warlord trait and/or artifact that buffs RP.

Some kind of formations, apocalypse-based or otherwise.

Flayed ones need Shred. Just look at the models.

Cheap Canoptek troop choice.

I'm pretty happy with the rules as they are, all things considered.