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"Drop Pod Assault: Drop Pods and units embarked upon them must be held in deep strike reserve."

We are clear that the embarked models are actually in deep strike reserve thus arrive by deep strike with the pod.

Where in what you posted does it state that an Embarked Unit arrives through any method other then the sequence found within Arriving via Deep Strike?

JinxDragon wrote:
Where in what you posted does it state that an Embarked Unit arrives through any method other then the sequence found within Arriving via Deep Strike?

Through the drop pod sequence.

Using that logic, anything that does not scatter is not deep striking because it is not following the exact sequence...





Automatically Appended Next Post:
For further clarity the drop pod sequence would be handled in this order:
-drop pod assault
-inertial guidance
-transport capacity (which states once a drop pod lands, the embarked units- that came from deep strike reserve - must disembark)

Models in a drop pod are held in reserves, but the drop pod arrives from deep strike and the models disembark from it. There is no wording that they arrive from deepstrike, and if in fact they did they would have to roll for scatter /mishap separately from their transport as they do not have the inertial guidance rule and they are not the same unit, and its not a rule that extends to other models.

obviously that does not happen, so they are not arriving by deepstriking. The drop pod unit is arriving by deepstriking, and they are disembarking out of it.

The Legion of the Damned do not benefit from Chapter Tactics and their units cannot be joined by Independent Characters. They always start the game in reserve and always arrive by Deep Strike. When they arrive by Deep Strike, you may re-roll the Scatter dice if you wish.

they always arrive by deepstrike.

A Transport vehicle with Deep Strike may Deep Strike regardless of whether its passengers have Deep Strike or not.

the act of being in a transport that deep strikes does not mean the passengers have deepstrike. If the passengers do not have deepstrike obviously they are embarked in a vehicle, the vehicle deepstrikes, and they can stay embarked or disembark from the vehicle depending on rules/player desire to do something within the rules allowed.

arriving from deepstrike has specific instructions..

Arriving by Deep Strike Roll for the arrival of all Deep Striking units as specified in the rules for Reserves and then deploy them as follows: • First, place one model from the unit anywhere

when we look at the rules that govern how a model arrives from deepstrike and then look at how a model arrives in a drop pod we can see that only the drop pod is following the "arriving from deepstrike rules" therefore the unit onboard is not arriving from deepstrike.

despite all of that..

In the Movement phase during which they arrive, Deep Striking units may not move any further, other than to disembark from a Deep Striking Transport vehicle if they are in one.

Does indeed seem to indicate models arriving in a deep striking transport if they disembark or not are a deep striking unit.

Incorrect, anything which does not Scatter is doing so because it has a more advanced Rule. Within this Rule are specific instructions that allow the Model in question to bypasses that step of the sequence. This Rule is still using the Deep Striking Sequence known as Arriving Via Deep Strike, as it specifies exactly which steps are being modified and requires the Sequence to still be resolved.
Where is the Rule which state that an Embarked Unit can bypasses the entire sequence?

There is a Rule which state Combined Reserves arrive together and I have been turning that one over in my head a little. There is a weak argument that it could be grounds to allow the two Units to arrive "Together" in a very literal sense. This Requirement would generate a conflict if the two would be separated via something like Scattering, but that still has questions on how the Sequence is actually resolved because it would require both Units to be deployed 'together.' If that requires the Models to be physically touching then it creates problems for Embarked Units as they are not technically on the board, and how does that interact with Mishaps if both Units are occupying the same space for Rule resolution purposes.

On the other side of the coin, could it be used to allow something to move out of Deep Strike Reserves without accessing any of the Deep Strike Rules to do so. Even this is not a very well thought out idea, there are numerous problems I can already foresee, but it would create a conflict. This conflict would be a Transport Arriving but the Models that where put into Deep Strike Reserve with said Transport are unable to Deploy. As the Rule which allows them to Deep Strike literally states they can not access this Rule, but they are also required to arrive together, we are in a situation where a Rule must be broken. Now the more "advanced" of them, which is a debate in and of itself, would trump and seeing the Deep Strike Rule puts us back in square one....

However in such a situation I would be hard pressed to state this means the unit has Arrived via Deep Striking, seeing it used none of the Deep Strike Rules to actually do so.

Does entering play from deep strike reserve mean that you are entering play by deep strike?

I really believe it does...

Then you must follow the instructions within the Deep Strike Special Rule concerning how Units Arrive via Deep Strike....

JinxDragon wrote:
Then you must follow the instructions within the Deep Strike Special Rule concerning how Units Arrive via Deep Strike....

Unless embarked on a drop pod.
And the unit is embarked on the drop pod in Deep Strike reserve.
It doesn't say that LoD must use the Arrival Via Deep Strike.
It says it must arrive BY Deep Strike:
Which it does by being embarked on the pod in deep strike reserve and entering play by Deep Strike inside the pod.

xAndurilx wrote:

JinxDragon wrote:
Then you must follow the instructions within the Deep Strike Special Rule concerning how Units Arrive via Deep Strike....

Unless embarked on a drop pod.
And the unit is embarked on the drop pod in Deep Strike reserve.
It doesn't say that LoD must use the Arrival Via Deep Strike.
It says it must arrive BY Deep Strike:
Which it does by being embarked on the pod in deep strike reserve and entering play by Deep Strike.

Technically they would be entering play using the 'Drop Pod Assault' rules, which uses some of the rules from the 'Deep Strike' rules.

Okay, you have said that multiple times now so what do you mean by 'Drop Pods Don't?'
The Drop Pod do have Rules designed to modify the Arriving Via Deep Strike sequence, in order to do so it is still required to access the Arriving Via Deep Strike Sequence.

The last point on your list has no Rule Support.
The only mention of Embarked Units is to inform us that they are placed into Deep Strike Reserves, it doesn't state anything more then that. It does not have any instructions informing us that the Arriving Via Deep Strike Sequence for the Embarked Unit, a completely separate entity to the Drop Pod, has been modified in any way shape or form. If the conclusion is that the Embarked Unit is also Arriving Via Deep Strike, then there is nothing granting them permission to remain on the side-board where all Embarked Models belong.

Very true.
Drop Pods don't actually have the Deep Strike rule.

And do Drop Pods arrive by Deep Strike?
YES because they are deployed in deep strike reserve.

They must begin play in Deep Strike Reserve and enter play from Deep Strike Reserve.

If any one wants to argue that Drop Pods don't enter play by Deep Strike... I really don't know what to tell you


Automatically Appended Next Post:

JinxDragon wrote:

The fifth point on your list has no Rule Support.
The only mention of Embarked Units is to inform us that they are placed into Deep Strike Reserves, it doesn't state anything more then that. It does not have any instructions informing us that the Arriving Via Deep Strike Sequence for the Embarked Unit, a completely separate entity to the Transport, is being modified in any way shape or form. If the conclusion is that the Embarked Unit is Arriving Via Deep Strike, there is nothing granting them permission to remain on the side-board where all Embarked Models belong.

Drop Pod Assault rule supports this as both the unit and the pod must be deployed in Deep Strike Reserve.
Do drop pods arrive by deep strike? Yes because it is entering play from deep strike reserve which is also true for the embarked unit.

Again you are stating that Unit "Drop-Pod," arriving via the Deep Strike Sequence, means that Unit "Embarked" has also Arrived Via Deep Strike...
Please quote where the Rulebook state that the Embarked Unit counts as having Arrived Via Deep Strike when it's Transport Arrives.

xAndurilx wrote:
And do Drop Pods arrive by Deep Strike?
YES because they are deployed in deep strike reserve.

They must begin play in Deep Strike Reserve and enter play from Deep Strike Reserve.

What states that beginning play in Deep Strike Reserve means that they can only be Deep Striking and not entering play by some other rule that uses the same mechanics as Deep Strike?

 Ghaz wrote:

xAndurilx wrote:
And do Drop Pods arrive by Deep Strike?
YES because they are deployed in deep strike reserve.

They must begin play in Deep Strike Reserve and enter play from Deep Strike Reserve.

What states that beginning play in Deep Strike Reserve means that they can only be Deep Striking and not entering play by some other rule that uses the same mechanics as Deep Strike?

? The fact that they are in Deep Strike Reserve?
They certainly wouldn't be able to outflank or come on as regular reserves...

Please show me how drop pods can deep strike without this assumption, quoting rules.

xAndurilx wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

xAndurilx wrote:
And do Drop Pods arrive by Deep Strike?
YES because they are deployed in deep strike reserve.

They must begin play in Deep Strike Reserve and enter play from Deep Strike Reserve.

What states that beginning play in Deep Strike Reserve means that they can only be Deep Striking and not entering play by some other rule that uses the same mechanics as Deep Strike?

? The fact that they are in Deep Strike Reserve?
They certainly wouldn't be able to outflank or come on as regular reserves...

Please show me how drop pods can deep strike without this assumption, quoting rules.

We know the drop pods are deep striking.

We don't know if the unit inside is

JinxDragon wrote:
Then you must follow the instructions within the Deep Strike Special Rule concerning how Units Arrive via Deep Strike....

Except the deepstriking transports rules gives you permission to disembark and therefore use the disembark rules, but move no further. 

Permission for a Deep Striking Unit to Disembark is not a Rule stating that the Unit has Arrived via Deep Strike. It is an Exception designed to over-turn a specific Restriction, and unless the Restriction is in play then the Exception is irrelevant. However, should we find that Rule stating that an Embarked Unit counts as having Arrived via Deep Strike with it's Transport, then this Rule would be very useful to evoke. Prior to establishing that, the Exception may or may not even be in play and therefore is irrelevant.

I'm going to review the Monolyth's portal when I get home, not entirely sure if it can pull a Unit from Deep Strike Reserve....

 CrownAxe wrote:

xAndurilx wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

xAndurilx wrote:
And do Drop Pods arrive by Deep Strike?
YES because they are deployed in deep strike reserve.

They must begin play in Deep Strike Reserve and enter play from Deep Strike Reserve.

What states that beginning play in Deep Strike Reserve means that they can only be Deep Striking and not entering play by some other rule that uses the same mechanics as Deep Strike?

? The fact that they are in Deep Strike Reserve?
They certainly wouldn't be able to outflank or come on as regular reserves...

Please show me how drop pods can deep strike without this assumption, quoting rules.

We know the drop pods are deep striking.

We don't know if the unit inside is

Please look at Drop Pod rules and tell me how this is the case with one but not the other.

It never says the pod Arrives Via Deep Strike or by Deep Strike.

It says it is placed in Deep Strike Reserves.
Then it goes to Inertial Guidance.


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JinxDragon wrote:
Permission for a Deep Striking Unit to Disembark is not a Rule stating that the Unit has Arrived via Deep Strike. It is an Exception designed to over-turn a specific Restriction, and unless the Restriction is in play then the Exception is irrelevant. However, should we find that Rule stating that an Embarked Unit counts as having Arrived via Deep Strike with it's Transport, then this Rule would be very useful to evoke. Prior to establishing that, the Exception may or may not even be in play and therefore is irrelevant.

I'm going to review the Monolyth's portal when I get home, not entirely sure if it can pull a Unit from Deep Strike Reserve....

Then how do Drop Pods deep strike if this is correct.

Please quote rule.


My rules I am going by are Drop Pod Assault and Aid Unlooked For.

You have four drop pods.
- They are placed in reserves.
- Drop pod assault states half have to arrive turn 1
- When they all arrive, they arrive via deep strike.
- Deep strike is the ability to place the unit anywhere on the table using the scatter die if neccessary.
- Unit is placed on table and the scatter dice are rolled.
- Unit inside that has deep struck along with the transport are now allowed to disembark from transport.

Seems very simple to me.

LotD can now arrive turn one

xAndurilx,
If the Drop Pod is not accessing the sequence known as 'Arriving Via Deep Strike' then what is it's Special Rules modifying when they state to reduce the scatter?
If the Unit inside does not access this sequence, not even to state that they Arrive without using the sequence, then how can it be stated to have Arrived Via Deep Strike at all?

In that turn’s Assault phase, however, these units cannot charge. This also applies to units that have disembarked from Transports that arrived by Deep Strike that turn.

this section does make a distinction that the unit is disembarking from a transport, and that the transport arrived from deep strike.

Units do not confer the Deep Strike special rule onto a Transport vehicle they are embarked inside. A Transport vehicle with Deep Strike may Deep Strike regardless of whether its passengers have Deep Strike or not.

Shows that a transport with Deepstrike can deepstrike, and have passengers inside that do not have deep strike.

neither of these come out and say "the unit isn't deep striking" of course, just like nothing comes out and says "the unit count as arriving by deep striking"

I tend to err on the side of permission, so there is permission granted for the unit to arrive inside the transport and disembark, but it is only stated that the transport is the one arriving by deep strike.

HIWPI- the unit inside is not arriving from deepstrike. I believe this is consistent with the RAI, and there is no RAW that says the unit is arriving from deepstrike. That it is spelled out that a unit that disembarks from a transport that arrived from deep strike cannot assault instead of stating the models count as arriving from deepstrike as well even if they do not have the deepstrike rule but disembark from a deep striking transport, or anything like that seals it for me.

BlackToof,
Given that the Transport and Embarked contents are already two completely different Units, even if purchased as a Dedicated Transport, that line has always been a curiosity to me. A Rule stating that the two do not confer the Deep Strike Rule to each other is redundant, the default state only grants Special Rules to individual Models based on their Army List entry, war-gear and from secondary Rules that clearly grant access to the Special Rule. Given that there is nothing granting the Special Rule to transfer from one Unit to another by default, a Restriction against such an action is a little bit... strange.

I don't find it hard to conclude that the Author of this section believed that the Embarked Unit where also Deep Striking, it just would have been nice if they actually stated such.

Jinx, I agree with that. GW writing is 'special' sometimes. like FnP where it states it not a saving throw but later in the same rule states it is a save. That however is another argument in its own right of course.

Johnnytorrance wrote:
You have four drop pods.
- They are placed in reserves.
- Drop pod assault states half have to arrive turn 1
- When they all arrive, they arrive via deep strike.
- Deep strike is the ability to place the unit anywhere on the table using the scatter die if neccessary.
- Unit is placed on table and the scatter dice are rolled.
- Unit inside that has deep struck along with the transport are now allowed to disembark from transport.

Seems very simple to me.

LotD can now arrive turn one

This ^


Automatically Appended Next Post:

JinxDragon wrote:
xAndurilx,
If the Drop Pod is not accessing the sequence known as 'Arriving Via Deep Strike' then what is it's Special Rules modifying when they state to reduce the scatter?
If the Unit inside does not access this sequence, not even to state that they Arrive without using the sequence, then how can it be stated to have Arrived Via Deep Strike at all?

not sure if we resolved this yet...

1) Inertial Guidance? not quite sure what is being asked.
We know Drop Pods deep strike - I just found it funny that they don't actually say they deep strike, but rather they imply it through it being in Deep Strike Reserve. Sorry if I confused the issue.

2) The unit inside accesses this sequence by being embarked on the pod.
ex: if an IC deep strikes with a unit who is entering play by deep strike, the IC is considered to have entered play by deep strike too.
Same thing with an embarked unit in a deep striking transport - they both enter play by deep strike, but the transport grants special rules for deploying their embarked units who are entering play by deep strike with the vehicle.

[quote=xAndurilx

*look at it this way... if the unit is not entering play from Deep Strike Reserve could they charge that turn since its an open topped transport? Of course not... because they arrived from Deep Strike Reserve and entered play by Deep Strike with the Drop Pod.

blaktoof wrote:

The rules for deep striking transports purposefully call out that a unit that disembarks from a transport that arrived from DS may not assault that turn. Which is why they may not charge. This doesn't mean the unit is also arriving from deep strike.

Thanks - I missed that part: bad example on my end.
Edited it out of the post.

LoD can still embark on SW Pods though

No unit arriving from reserve can charge on the turn it arrives. Being embarked in a transport may preclude the unit from having arrived from Deep Strike Reserves, but they have still arrived from reserve.

2) Please quote the Rule which states that a Unit Arrives Via Deep Strike by Disembarking from a Transport, if it is written in the Transport section I have failed to locate it so please be kind and quote the sentence for me.
I would also like to point out that your example does not make sense, for the Independent Character is placed as part of the Arrival via Deep Strike sequence while the Embarked Unit remains on the Side Table.

JinxDragon wrote:
2) Please quote the Rule which states that a Unit Arrives Via Deep Strike by Disembarking from a Transport, if it is written in the Transport section I have failed to locate it so please be kind and quote the sentence for me.
I would also like to point out that your example does not make sense, for the Independent Character is placed as part of the Arrival via Deep Strike sequence while the Embarked Unit remains on the Side Table.

Nevermind the example, the point is being missed...

"In the Movement phase during which they arrive, Deep Striking units may not move any further, other than to disembark from a Deep Striking Transport vehicle if they are in one."

The point is where do the rules say as much?