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In a Sternguard Veteran squad of
3x combi-plasma
2x combi-melta
Plasma cannon
Heavy bolter
Bolter

What do I equip the last two? They will most likely combat squad with a melta, heavy bolter and bolter, but may sometimes be a full squad.

Uh... neither. Your problem isn't deciding between a Combi-Grav and Combi-Flamer, your problem is figuring out what to do with the actual squad. You're too varied.

Combi-Meltas are great for tank hunting, obviously, and ideally should be taken to back up Melta Guns or... if you can reliably make the squad relentless... Multi-Meltas

Combi-Plasmas are great for wrecking (#rekt) heavier infantry. They're good as back up to plasma guns but Plasma cannons, being heavy and all, usually mean that the squad is stuck some where which means you probably wont be able to get in there with a rapid fire salvo. I've seen Five sternguard, three with Combi-Plas and two with normal Plas, drop a Riptide in one go.

Combi-Flamers are actually a great all around choice. Strap two guys in the squad with Heavy Flamers and give as many others Combi-Flamers and watch horde armies literally melt. Combi-Flamers are also fantastic defensively. D3 auto-hits is nothing to sneeze at, especially when you do that with five guys in the squad AND THEN THEY ALL HAVE TWO ATTACKS IN MELEE

Combi-Gravs, like Grav weapons in general, are a bit of an odd duck. They're great against Marines, Monstrous creatures, terminators, and other stuff that you'd generally target plasma against but they don't over heat. Now that might seem like a huge win but they're also Salvo which means if you move you're limiting yourself to a meager 9 inches which isn't great. Again, if you can give them Relentless, Combi-Gravs will ruin people's days.

But here's the kicker: Sternguard don't actually *need* Combi-Weapons of any kind. With their alternate bolter ammunition they're still very capable and plenty lethal. Running dual heavy bolters? Well I hope you opponent likes Kraken shells. 10 guys or even 5 guys with a thirty inch or greater range and the ability to be AP4 can put a huge hurt on a lot of armies. The other shells are equally great.

In essence I'd say that you need to keep your Sternguard focused, just like Devastators. Just because you can take a preposterous amount of weapons and combinations thereof doesn't mean you should. In general I'd stay away from Missile Launchers, Plasma Cannons, and Lascannons simply because they tend to work much better when massed in Dev squads rather than simply getting a pair. Also there's no reason to take a basic flamer in the squad with Heavy Flamers are only marginally more expensive. But consider these points:

1) How will they be deploying?
If the answer is Drop Pod or Rhino then don't take heavy weapons, period. If you're planning on walking them in then go with Heavy Bolters or *maybe* Multi-meltas if you've got some squirrely terrain or if you're facing down an armored column.

2) What do you want them to kill?
Vehicles? Combi-Meltas, full Meltas, and maybe full Meltas. For light tanks or walkers you can also get by with plasma which pulls double-duty as the answer for most power armored problems. Against some hordes then pack flamers and stuff them in a rhino or drop pod.

3) Don't forget that Sternguard all have 2 attacks base. That means you can run up on an enemy, unleash a torrent of flame, and then simply charge and beat to death whatever is left.

I really should've mentioned this, deploying via Stormraven. The squad is mainly just fluffy and fun,which explains the weapon variety. I mainly intend though for these two vets to be deployed in a Combat Squad with a heavy bolter, combi-melta, and regular bolter. No real priority target, mainly a backfield killer unit.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
I really should've mentioned this, deploying via Stormraven. The squad is mainly just fluffy and fun,which explains the weapon variety. I mainly intend though for these two vets to be deployed in a Combat Squad with a heavy bolter, combi-melta, and regular bolter. No real priority target, mainly a backfield killer unit.

Well in the case of a Stormraven I'd be inclined to just go all in Flamer shenanigans. Combi- and Heavy all day er'rydayyy. Let the raven deal with tank hunting and general fire support and have the squad kitted up to burn out a gap for it.

So combi-flamers on the last two? Sounds cool to me!

If fluffly and fun is you prime motivator, then flamers should work well. They also give you a little more anti-horde support. As it looks like you are building a squad that fits the fluff, and can deal with everything, go for it.

In general I agree with Dust’s excellent post above. The one thing I have a fault with is taking both regular and heavy flamers. Due to the new sequential firing rules, where you completely resolve one type of gun, then move to the next, if you have multiple template weapons, one of them is going to get the good first shot, the other one the scattered followup.

 Nevelon wrote:


In general I agree with Dust’s excellent post above. The one thing I have a fault with is taking both regular and heavy flamers. Due to the new sequential firing rules, where you completely resolve one type of gun, then move to the next, if you have multiple template weapons, one of them is going to get the good first shot, the other one the scattered followup.

I may have phrased things poorly. I meant to convey that it was a good idea to take TWO heavy flamers and the rest of the squad with Combi-Flamers.

 Dust wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:


In general I agree with Dust’s excellent post above. The one thing I have a fault with is taking both regular and heavy flamers. Due to the new sequential firing rules, where you completely resolve one type of gun, then move to the next, if you have multiple template weapons, one of them is going to get the good first shot, the other one the scattered followup.

I may have phrased things poorly. I meant to convey that it was a good idea to take TWO heavy flamers and the rest of the squad with Combi-Flamers.

In 6th, I’d agree with you. In 7th, I think it’s a waste due to the way the shooting phase has been changed. IMHO you should stick with either the combis, or the heavies, and not mix them. It’s one of those cases where the unit remained static, but the rules changed under them to affect wargear choices.

You roll up to your target, disembark from the rhino and get ready to light them up. In 6th, you would place all the templates, count your unfortunate victims, then figure out who’s spending time in the burn ward. Every guy with a flamer is going to get a chance to be in the best position to get as many people as possible. In 7th, you have to pick who fires first, the combis or the heavies, as they are different profiles. Say you choose to fire the HFs first. You figure out how many are under the template, and kill a bunch. Then the normal flamers get their chance. Odds are, the squad you are shooting is going to be thinned out and burned back from the HFs, so you won’t get as many under each template. You are paying a premium price for that one shot with the combi, you are going to want to make it count.

I love HFs on sternguard. Only heavy worth dropping the special ammo for IMHO. I’ve been fielding two in my squad since I got the parts to make them. But besides them, I only really like a few c-meltas in the squad (if that) relying on the special ammo to get the job done.

Rule of thumb. Grav ONLY goes on slow and purposeful/relentless platforms

 Leth wrote:
Rule of thumb. Grav ONLY goes on slow and purposeful/relentless platforms

Rules of thumb generally have exceptions. I'm can't think of any exceptions for this.

you want to outfit a unit depending on their use. Go flamer if the unit is suppose to be dealing with numbers, not just because you have an upgrade slot open.

Also like others have said: avoid grav unless relentless. Salvo doesnt fire snaps like Heavy does when you move, but you get a LOT less effective regardless (depends on the gun but its usually less shots....quite a bit less shots)

Corollax wrote:

 Leth wrote:
Rule of thumb. Grav ONLY goes on slow and purposeful/relentless platforms

Rules of thumb generally have exceptions. I'm can't think of any exceptions for this.

I’m modeling up a devastator sarge with a c-grav. He’s not going to be moving, and if he does, I’ve got the UM doctrine to help (but am not counting on that). Odds are, he’ll be standing still most of the game, the the c-grav will give me a little extra boost for one turn.

It’s the only non-bike grav weapon I’m planning on having in my army.

You could add “Or units you never plan on moving” to the rule of thumb, but at that point it starts to outgrow thumb-sized rules and goes into general tactics.

tbh thats like saying my Flash Gitz dont need a vehicle since i can just hide them in a ruin and wait for someone to get in range.

Nobody with half a brain is going to walk in range of something that nasty unless theyre fast enough to charge it before you can shoot, theyre going to outrange it first THEN go in.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
tbh thats like saying my Flash Gitz dont need a vehicle since i can just hide them in a ruin and wait for someone to get in range.

Nobody with half a brain is going to walk in range of something that nasty unless theyre fast enough to charge it before you can shoot, theyre going to outrange it first THEN go in.

In an ideal world, sure. But the tabletop is often an imperfect world where things don’t work out just as planned. Having your ride blown up in a bad spot, failing a charge, or just the need to kill something else first. There are plenty of times you find you self taking fire from guns you’d rather not, at ranges that aren’t favorable.

I agree that grav guns belong on bikes. It’s where they shine. But of you need to have a static squad, either camping an objectve, or manning a gun, the grav gun (and c-grav) is not a bad choice to bring. 3 shots at 18” covers a bit of the table. And if you do get the window to fire it, it helps against most targets.

 Nevelon wrote:

 Dust wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:


In general I agree with Dust’s excellent post above. The one thing I have a fault with is taking both regular and heavy flamers. Due to the new sequential firing rules, where you completely resolve one type of gun, then move to the next, if you have multiple template weapons, one of them is going to get the good first shot, the other one the scattered followup.

I may have phrased things poorly. I meant to convey that it was a good idea to take TWO heavy flamers and the rest of the squad with Combi-Flamers.

In 6th, I’d agree with you. In 7th, I think it’s a waste due to the way the shooting phase has been changed. IMHO you should stick with either the combis, or the heavies, and not mix them. It’s one of those cases where the unit remained static, but the rules changed under them to affect wargear choices.

You roll up to your target, disembark from the rhino and get ready to light them up. In 6th, you would place all the templates, count your unfortunate victims, then figure out who’s spending time in the burn ward. Every guy with a flamer is going to get a chance to be in the best position to get as many people as possible. In 7th, you have to pick who fires first, the combis or the heavies, as they are different profiles. Say you choose to fire the HFs first. You figure out how many are under the template, and kill a bunch. Then the normal flamers get their chance. Odds are, the squad you are shooting is going to be thinned out and burned back from the HFs, so you won’t get as many under each template. You are paying a premium price for that one shot with the combi, you are going to want to make it count.

I love HFs on sternguard. Only heavy worth dropping the special ammo for IMHO. I’ve been fielding two in my squad since I got the parts to make them. But besides them, I only really like a few c-meltas in the squad (if that) relying on the special ammo to get the job done.

I just really like Combi-Flamers for defensive and overwatch purposes. I don't think I've ever actually shot one in the shooting phase. But having your opponent declare a charge and then getting slapped with 5D3 automatic hits, no need for snap fires, is a really great feeling.

 Dust wrote:

I just really like Combi-Flamers for defensive and overwatch purposes. I don't think I've ever actually shot one in the shooting phase. But having your opponent declare a charge and then getting slapped with 5D3 automatic hits, no need for snap fires, is a really great feeling.

No argument, it’s a nice feeling. I’m just stingy with wargear, so the 50 points you just spent on that makes me think “I could have an attack bike, land speeder, or half of another squad on the table”

Is it effective, efficient, fluffy, or fun? You can’t always have them all. IMHO c-flamers for overwatch don’t make my efficiency threshold for points spent for value gained. As an Ultramarine, I have no particular fluff attachment to them. They can be effective and fun, but so it pumping things full of special ammo, so I don’t see a lot of value added there. But a lot of these are my personal opinions. Your milage may vary.

But at the end of the day, as long as you are killing the enemies of mankind, do whatever works for you. There are a lot of xenos, heretics, and other forms of scum out there, and many different ways to kill them.