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You can take the Armor from CoF instead of the Armor of Russ. It's basically Terminator Armor that isn't Terminator Armor, so you can wear it on a TWC.

Nobody has mentioned anything about the murderfangs yet...are they not even worth considering? It seems like if you dropped enough of them into enemy lines with pods, they'd have a hard time ensuring that nothing got hit.

 xlEternitylx wrote:
Nobody has mentioned anything about the murderfangs yet...are they not even worth considering? It seems like if you dropped enough of them into enemy lines with pods, they'd have a hard time ensuring that nothing got hit.

Murderfang is unique, isn't he?

 pretre wrote:

 xlEternitylx wrote:
Nobody has mentioned anything about the murderfangs yet...are they not even worth considering? It seems like if you dropped enough of them into enemy lines with pods, they'd have a hard time ensuring that nothing got hit.

Murderfang is unique, isn't he?

....totally missed that one! So let me rephrase:
What about dreadnaughts (with murderfang tossed in) that are outfitted with the blizzard shield and axe? With the 3++ (and venerable) they'd likely survive long enough to hit their target, especially if podded in.

 pretre wrote:

 xlEternitylx wrote:
Nobody has mentioned anything about the murderfangs yet...are they not even worth considering? It seems like if you dropped enough of them into enemy lines with pods, they'd have a hard time ensuring that nothing got hit.

Murderfang is unique, isn't he?

Yeup!
He is not something to just aim at the enemy, you need to support him.
>Part of a drop Pod Army
>Give him a wall of bodies and/or Tanks to follow in giving him mobile cover.

Murderfang will be part of my dreadnaught army once I get enough dreads to run it.

Doing some points/returns analysis right now will post it when I am done.

I am thinking against MEQ, Tyranid monstrous stat line, anything else?

All builds will have thunder wolf and a 2+ with some form of invul.


So here are the stats for a basic thunder wolf attack hitting on fours with different equipment against different toughness and saves. This is per attack, not per wolf.

A Wolf with fist does .417 wounds to everyone
A Claw does more than A fist at str 4/str 5 but less at str 6 and against 2+ save targets
and a naked wolf does about .1 to .15 wounds per attack against the range of targets

So I think a mix is good, simply because you have attacks at initiative.

 Leth wrote:
I am personally taking a wolf guard battle leader on wolf with armor of russ and a pair of wolf claws. I am gaining a 4+ invul and a -5 init in challenge for 10 more points that I would be spending on the 2+ save anyway. I like that he can challenge, go before almost all enemies and even if they are save 2+ I got rending with shred the rest of the squad can put the hurt on and hopefully bleed over. If not most of the things I need to worry about are save 3+ or worse anyway.

Have you thought about powerfist and wolf claw, you still get the +1 attack from two weapons and the choice of higher strength attacks/instant death attacks when you need them

I have thought about it, but I think it would be better to put the second weapon on another model.

that way I get the benefit all the time instead of just when I think I need it.

Especially now that I looked at the math and saw that Thunderwolves without weapons dont do much. for an extra 50% they increase their killing power by 3 times against most marine targets

Is it just me or is Logan not really worth taking anymore? Save, perhaps, as part of the Champions of Fenris supplement.

 JesusFreak wrote:
Is it just me or is Logan not really worth taking anymore? Save, perhaps, as part of the Champions of Fenris supplement.

Actually I think he is very viable.
Without his Chariot him and a Wolf Guard Terminator Pack out of Stormwolf can inflict a lot of damage.
With his Charaot if properly supported is going to be a beast in close combat and very durable.

 Anpu42 wrote:

 JesusFreak wrote:
Is it just me or is Logan not really worth taking anymore? Save, perhaps, as part of the Champions of Fenris supplement.

Actually I think he is very viable.
Without his Chariot him and a Wolf Guard Terminator Pack out of Stormwolf can inflict a lot of damage.
With his Charaot if properly supported is going to be a beast in close combat and very durable.

In general I think he's actually better than he was before, but he's so expensive that I wouldn't consider even taking him under... oh, 2500pts probably. Although if you wanted to trolololol in Stormrider, then you could theoretically turn him into a one-man pimp-slapping deathstar in a lower pointed game.

That said, this is pretty much how I approached him before anyway, so on those rare occasions where I bust him out, he should be even more effective.

 Anpu42 wrote:

 JesusFreak wrote:
Is it just me or is Logan not really worth taking anymore? Save, perhaps, as part of the Champions of Fenris supplement.

Actually I think he is very viable.
Without his Chariot him and a Wolf Guard Terminator Pack out of Stormwolf can inflict a lot of damage.
With his Charaot if properly supported is going to be a beast in close combat and very durable.

I must be missing something I think. The chariot is a liability in close combat. Glance it 3 times and say goodbye to Logan.

Well you need to be able to glance it 6 times, hitting against logans weapon skill to reliably get through the invul, against armor 12. In addition you have to have enough people survive logans attacks to do it.

Very few units can actually do that in CC.

300 points of Logan backed up by two units of T cav and a few podding units......pretty solid.

 Leth wrote:
Well you need to be able to glance it 6 times, hitting against logans weapon skill to reliably get through the invul, against armor 12. In addition you have to have enough people survive logans attacks to do it.

Very few units can actually do that in CC.

300 points of Logan backed up by two units of T cav and a few podding units......pretty solid.

More easily than you'd think. Saw it happen yesterday...10 DC charged Logan. He swung first, only took out 2 marines. In return, the DC caused 10 wounds...he didn't last one round of combat.

I honestly don't see how Logan is supposedly better now. He lost the high king rule for a start, gained a wound and the chariot is situationally better at best.

Truly, I think a tooled up wolf lord on thunderwolves hits much harder and is.more resilient for less points.

Any weird situation can happen but d6 impact, the rending dog attacks and his own attacks make it pretty unlikely.

In all fairness, that is on logan for letting himself get stuck in a bad combat for him, that has nothing to do with the chariot. Unless it was a unprecidented charge range, there is no way the chariot should have been caught.

 Leth wrote:
In all fairness, that is on logan for letting himself get stuck in a bad combat for him, that has nothing to do with the chariot. Unless it was a unprecidented charge range, there is no way the chariot should have been caught.

I agree. I walked in to the gw store just before this happened. The DC disembarked from a LRC and then charged Logan...I didn't stay long enough to figure out if the space wolf player was just playing poorly. I think its liked he was.

As a hardcore sw enthusiast, I was pretty devastated to see Logan get owned.

So what do people think to paying the points for psychic hoods on rune priests? I have a rune priest kitted out as my warlord as follows - mastery level 2, armour of russ, Helm of durfast, bite of fenris and psychic hood. So he should strike most things at the same time with his unweildy force axe. He should hit with most as he Re rolls to hit. And if he has no chance of making combat he has a ignores cover Bolter that will hit more often than not with hellfrost.

Any thoughts?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JesusFreak wrote:

 Leth wrote:
In all fairness, that is on logan for letting himself get stuck in a bad combat for him, that has nothing to do with the chariot. Unless it was a unprecidented charge range, there is no way the chariot should have been caught.

I agree. I walked in to the gw store just before this happened. The DC disembarked from a LRC and then charged Logan...I didn't stay long enough to figure out if the space wolf player was just playing poorly. I think its liked he was.

As a hardcore sw enthusiast, I was pretty devastated to see Logan get owned.

And don't tell me that, just finished building santa and his sleigh.... Looking forward to slamming it into a riptide...

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
So what do people think to paying the points for psychic hoods on rune priests? I have a rune priest kitted out as my warlord as follows - mastery level 2, armour of russ, Helm of durfast, bite of fenris and psychic hood. So he should strike most things at the same time with his unweildy force axe. He should hit with most as he Re rolls to hit. And if he has no chance of making combat he has a ignores cover Bolter that will hit more often than not with hellfrost.

Any thoughts?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JesusFreak wrote:

 Leth wrote:
In all fairness, that is on logan for letting himself get stuck in a bad combat for him, that has nothing to do with the chariot. Unless it was a unprecidented charge range, there is no way the chariot should have been caught.

I agree. I walked in to the gw store just before this happened. The DC disembarked from a LRC and then charged Logan...I didn't stay long enough to figure out if the space wolf player was just playing poorly. I think its liked he was.

As a hardcore sw enthusiast, I was pretty devastated to see Logan get owned.

And don't tell me that, just finished building santa and his sleigh.... Looking forward to slamming it into a riptide...

That was one incident that we don't have all of the facts on. I once had a single Gretchen Model kill three Khorne Berserkers in Close Combat in two turns [this was back in 2nd].
I think we need to see more before we can call him a poor unit.

Im trying out two Venerable with Axe and Shield in my next game, both in pods ofc. Added a third pod to get them on the table turn 1. Im having quite high expectations for them so we will see. In my head it will be glorious slaughter haha!

Grimm_81 wrote:
Im trying out two Venerable with Axe and Shield in my next game, both in pods ofc. Added a third pod to get them on the table turn 1. Im having quite high expectations for them so we will see. In my head it will be glorious slaughter haha!

You should consider the formation in Champions of Fenris "Brethren of the Fell-Handed". It's basically Bjorn + 2 venerable dreadnoughts. As long as they stay near Bjorn, they get a 5++. They also get Adamantium Will for free, and can reroll hits in CC as long as Bjorn is alive (even if they aren't within 6" of him).

 streamdragon wrote:

Grimm_81 wrote:
Im trying out two Venerable with Axe and Shield in my next game, both in pods ofc. Added a third pod to get them on the table turn 1. Im having quite high expectations for them so we will see. In my head it will be glorious slaughter haha!

You should consider the formation in Champions of Fenris "Brethren of the Fell-Handed". It's basically Bjorn + 2 venerable dreadnoughts. As long as they stay near Bjorn, they get a 5++. They also get Adamantium Will for free, and can reroll hits in CC as long as Bjorn is alive (even if they aren't within 6" of him).

Saw the models online for it but have not looked into it. Bjorn however is a tad on the expensive side. On the other hand you no longer need the Venerable status for an invul (albeit 5++ not 3++) and dont need the axe/shield combo so a few points off there..

Anyone tried it out?

I got to see a venerable with shield in action a few weeks back. It was pretty awesome, the dreadnought was able to shrug off everything thanks to the ++3 save. Never even took a HP. Brethren of the fell handed could make for an interesting first wave of pods.
I am cloudy on the chariot rules, and couldn't see anything about it in the BRB, but Logan will still be I1 if he swings 2 handed in the chariot right?

No one got any insight on rune priests taking psychic hoods? I have a feeling they're a waste of points when I can take a Combi Melta on my GH WGPL in a pod.

 JesusFreak wrote:

 Leth wrote:
Well you need to be able to glance it 6 times, hitting against logans weapon skill to reliably get through the invul, against armor 12. In addition you have to have enough people survive logans attacks to do it.

Very few units can actually do that in CC.

300 points of Logan backed up by two units of T cav and a few podding units......pretty solid.

More easily than you'd think. Saw it happen yesterday...10 DC charged Logan. He swung first, only took out 2 marines. In return, the DC caused 10 wounds...he didn't last one round of combat.

I honestly don't see how Logan is supposedly better now. He lost the high king rule for a start, gained a wound and the chariot is situationally better at best.

Truly, I think a tooled up wolf lord on thunderwolves hits much harder and is.more resilient for less points.

These are my thoughts exactly.
A kitted out TW lord do basicly the exact same thing as Logan. He is litteraly just attacks with some S and ap. A unit ov TWC sould probably be far superior, sadly. To bad he dont have any rules at all that affect the army as a whole.

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
So what do people think to paying the points for psychic hoods on rune priests? I have a rune priest kitted out as my warlord as follows - mastery level 2, armour of russ, Helm of durfast, bite of fenris and psychic hood. So he should strike most things at the same time with his unweildy force axe. He should hit with most as he Re rolls to hit. And if he has no chance of making combat he has a ignores cover Bolter that will hit more often than not with hellfrost.

Any thoughts?

I definitely was happy for bringing a psychic hood during my battle, it saved me on a couple occasions from witchfires and a malediction. ML2 + Adamantium Will mean that the Rune Priest is going to be nullifying non-blessings on a 4 or 3+.

Do you guys think losing one layer of void shields (from 3 to 2) is worth getting 2 more cyberwolves(for a total of 3)?

What is the genereal oppinion on gearing up the WGBL or Lord offensively? There are SO many options...

Dual Claw
Claw / Fist
Black Death
Frostsword
Thunderhammer

Sword is good since you get one hand free, decent AP and not striking last. Black Death is kind of situational but possibly could be a killer. Dual claw is good but maybe a Claw/Fist combo to be more versatile...

I keep shifting back and forth between all of them... Advice!

Grimm_81 wrote:
What is the genereal oppinion on gearing up the WGBL or Lord offensively? There are SO many options...

Dual Claw
Claw / Fist
Black Death
Frostsword
Thunderhammer

Sword is good since you get one hand free, decent AP and not striking last. Black Death is kind of situational but possibly could be a killer. Dual claw is good but maybe a Claw/Fist combo to be more versatile...

I keep shifting back and forth between all of them... Advice!

For the Wolf Lord the Wolf Claw/Power Fist is a good combo. Along with the Frost Sword and Bolt Pistol/Plasma Pistol might be good. If you don't mind going off on I1 Black Death and a Storm Shield or Bolt Pistol/Plasma Pistol for the extra Attack.
For the WGBL...The Frost Sword and a Storm Shield unless you don't mind going of in I1 Black Death.

In running Black Death, Storm Shield, Runic Armour and a Thunderwolf Mount. He's dead hard to put down, gets a ton of attacks on the charge, and looks awesome!