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Slipknotzim wrote:
so has anyone put the cost togther to put a WP and a RP on bikes and attach them to a TWC star yet? i am at work, but i wonder how much that would run and weather it would be worth it. i imagen a WP and RP on bikes in a 6 TWC awith lords, it literly makes my jaw hurt the smile i get.

I dunno... sounds like super overkill to sink that many points into 1 unit...

With a unit that has that many models it would be very easy to get a few multi charges off(cyber wolves give you a HUGE reach).

However I have been learning in my games that you really want your death stars turned into death star lite. Sure you are not at 100% but the number of times I have been enfeebled and then just wiped out or marker lighted and just lit up.......

I've been thinking of getting a Stormwolf/fang, but I'm not sure what I'd assemble it as. If I was mainly going to use it as a gunship, what would be better?

A large blast ap3 with a chance to kill multi wound creatures outright isnt bad. Imo if you dont care for a flyer transport av the points are close enough to justify taking the gun ship. And you can still put some guys in it to drop somewhere if ya want.

I think the transport is the best version, its got assault vehicle, can be a dedicated transport for troops and can fit a full pack of blood claws in it

I built mine as a gunship. The cannon with Lance is too hard to pass up. Drop pods are better troop delivery systems. Unless you're set on taking a max size BC squad there's really no reason to go with the transport. The meta right now is heavy on MSU so 5 man GH squads are my preference, which go very well in the flying cannon.

Toofast wrote:
I built mine as a gunship. The cannon with Lance is too hard to pass up. Drop pods are better troop delivery systems. Unless you're set on taking a max size BC squad there's really no reason to go with the transport. The meta right now is heavy on MSU so 5 man GH squads are my preference, which go very well in the flying cannon.

I think this is debatable. I'm not saying you're wrong. The large blast and Lance is very nice. BUT the wolf's cannon is twin linked, and that arguably makes it better than large blast. Also it comes with Lascannons as standard and you only have to pay for meltas. Makes it a whole wolf claw cheaper than the gunship...

In fairness neither are bad. I just personally think the transport can do the gunships job AND dies a decent transport job. Possibly even better if you have a landing pad!

Don't most of the guns have limited firing arcs? This seems like it would be problematic on a zooming flyer.

 Wilytank wrote:
I've been thinking of getting a Stormwolf/fang, but I'm not sure what I'd assemble it as. If I was mainly going to use it as a gunship, what would be better?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiOJ2629834

I've been following that tutorial on how to magnetize it to both, its great easy and looks nice

Mavnas wrote:
Don't most of the guns have limited firing arcs? This seems like it would be problematic on a zooming flyer.

Yes, the gunship is problematic with line of sight.

Im going for the transport all the way:
Turret and twin linked makes more than enough up for the smaller blast.
Also full unit + IC in a fast assault vehicle.
+ objective secure.

I can't believe that no-one has raised this point yet, but in Champions of Fenris you can take Servitors in units of 1 for 10 points each to fill your compulsory troop choices.

Since you can take up to 8 elite slots, you can have 8 models just derping on your objectives while the rest of your min-maxed army wreaks merry havoc.

Also TWC with Power Fists are some of the most brutally efficient close combat units in the game: 5 WS 5 Str 10 attacks for 65 points on a 12" moving, fleet, ignores terrain 2W platform that can be protected by: Invisibility, 2+ armour saves and 3++ shield saves. Add Wolf Priests for preferred enemy and FNP; Wolf Lord to tank with Runic. TWCs are a hard counter to the melee monster du jour, Imperial Knights, in particular the Adamantine Lance formation of 4++/3++ rerollable Ion shields. 20 Str 10 attacks hitting on 3+ rerolling 1s and glancing on 3+ rerolling 1s will absolutely wreck any Knight before it can Stomp, and you can have your wolves absorb any D hits.

I'm actually jealous

I'm starting to lean towards the Stormwolf more now since I have had problems with fliers and this one's weapons seem better suited to taking them out. The Helfrost guns are short ranged either way, but TL against fliers are better than Lance which won't matter most of the time against fliers anyway.

Just got back from a tournament, got second and my list did pretty well.

Faced necrons/chaos list against a very good player and was able to beat him pretty soundly.

The combination of cyberwolves/str 10/storm shields made it easy to drop the douche canoes/avoid the MSS.

Also the stormshield terminator in the 5 man grey hunter squads were money.

Had one terminator make 6 storm shield saves to keep a unit alive and hold an objective. Rolled a few twos to protect the squad. Really recommend it

Awesome! What was your list? I tried looking back through the thread but couldn't find it :\

I finally picked up a copy of the book, so far it's the most interesting power armor book out there IMO. Any minor nerfs seem to have been made up by big buffs and overall internal balance. We'll see how the army does on the whole against the general meta but I think in the semi-competitive realm it will be solid and fun at the same time.

I am taking a shine to Bjorn in higher point lists (1850-2000).

I feel like his significant points drop, the ability to now take a Drop Pod (for less than he used to cost at base price) and removal of kneecapping special rules make him a solid choice to head up a big distracting drop pod spear head.

Oh and his claw got better too

My only main concern is what ranged weapon to equip him with.

The Assault Cannon is solid, but not sure it's really going to make much of an impact against most targets, even rerolling 1's to hit with 6's

Plasma Cannon is always handy, esp subtracting 6 from a scatter. Given that he's BS6 he does get to re-roll a Get's Hot result.

Hellfrost Cannon also seems solid. He's got a 2+ to hit with it and a 1/6 chance to insta-kill a MC if he wounds it.

TL Las-Cannon is the only option I am not a fan of at all. I mean, I like Las Cannons, but a single one isn't going to do much of anything and I hate paying more for upgrades that really should be free. Am I missing something on this?

 More Dakka wrote:
Awesome! What was your list? I tried looking back through the thread but couldn't find it :\

I finally picked up a copy of the book, so far it's the most interesting power armor book out there IMO. Any minor nerfs seem to have been made up by big buffs and overall internal balance. We'll see how the army does on the whole against the general meta but I think in the semi-competitive realm it will be solid and fun at the same time.

I am taking a shine to Bjorn in higher point lists (1850-2000).

I feel like his significant points drop, the ability to now take a Drop Pod (for less than he used to cost at base price) and removal of kneecapping special rules make him a solid choice to head up a big distracting drop pod spear head.

Oh and his claw got better too

My only main concern is what ranged weapon to equip him with.

The Assault Cannon is solid, but not sure it's really going to make much of an impact against most targets, even rerolling 1's to hit with 6's

Plasma Cannon is always handy, esp subtracting 6 from a scatter. Given that he's BS6 he does get to re-roll a Get's Hot result.

Hellfrost Cannon also seems solid. He's got a 2+ to hit with it and a 1/6 chance to insta-kill a MC if he wounds it.

TL Las-Cannon is the only option I am not a fan of at all. I mean, I like Las Cannons, but a single one isn't going to do much of anything and I hate paying more for upgrades that really should be free. Am I missing something on this?

Yes it is tough
If you want something more in-depth, they here http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/610206.page

So I took:

WGBL with Armor of russ, twin claws on thunderwolf
Ulrik

Techguy on Thunderwolf
3x Cyberwolf

5x Grey hunters
Melta
Terminator Wolf Guard with combi melta and stormshield
Drop Pod

5x Grey hunters
Melta
Terminator Wolf Guard with combi melta and stormshield
Drop Pod

Fast Attack Drop Pod
5x Thunderwolves
3x storm shield
2x power fist

White Scars Allies

Chaplain
Bike
Auspex

Command Squad
Bikes
2x grav, 2x storm, apoth

5x scouts - Melta Bomb
5x scouts - Melta Bomb

3x Centurions with Grav and omniscope

Void Shield with 1 extra shield.

Wolf Guard battle leader and techpriest went with command squad, Chaplain went with thunderwolves, Ulrik went with grav in a pod

So I set up the void shield to protect my two units on objectives, and then everything else just went on the offensive. I tended to box them into one quarter and just used board control to make it hard for them to score.

For WGBL missing out on the AP 2 was rough and I think I am going to go Champions of Fenris instead, take the Krakenbone Sword and Relic Armor from that book. The -5 init was nice, but against a lot of targets it didnt matter, however if I had had AP 2 at init it would have been a huge deal. Also with preferred enemy characters and str 6 with 5 attacks at ap 2 it is going to work much better.

Thunderwolves worked well, I positioned them so storm shields were out front. I liked that I didn't buy storm/fist for all of them because they would just die before they made it. they are just two T5 marines when it comes to dying. Saved points that way and didn't really notice a drop in killing power. I am also going to get the re-roll hits talisman on my techpriest, number of times I wish he would re-roll hits when I sent him and the wolves to go hunt a unit......

I cant speak to how awesome the stormshield terminator was in the squad, kept them alive through sweep attacks, close combat and just tanked a bunch of wounds(number of back to back twos I rolled.......) Worth the 10 extra points over a power armor guy with a combi. I like that they will be getting preferred enemy in challeges which could really help improve my combat ability without needing to buy the squad a weapon. I have considered investing in a frost axe for one of the grey hunter mooks.

Oh yeah, I totally missed that you can swap the power weapon for a storm shield for free! Man I am learning so many new things about this book every time I read this thread.

Did you feel like you had any problems with the GH in CC or was their primary job just to nuke something, stay alive and hold on until the cavalry came in to save the day?

I'm thinking that throwing one of those SS/Combi Terminators into a 3 man unit of Terminators in a pod would also be great at tanking those low AP wounds off the squad (possibly for Arjack).

Were the Cyberwolves decent at eating a few extra wounds and/or worth their points?

 More Dakka wrote:
Oh yeah, I totally missed that you can swap the power weapon for a storm shield for free! Man I am learning so many new things about this book every time I read this thread.

Did you feel like you had any problems with the GH in CC or was their primary job just to nuke something, stay alive and hold on until the cavalry came in to save the day?

I'm thinking that throwing one of those SS/Combi Terminators into a 3 man unit of Terminators in a pod would also be great at tanking those low AP wounds off the squad (possibly for Arjack).

Were the Cyberwolves decent at eating a few extra wounds and/or worth their points?

I had some problems with the grey hunters in CC, but I didnt want them there anyway unless it was against a mook squad. Still them having counter attack was really nice, I did miss having a melta bomb on the sergeant and so I need to look into finding the points for that. But they did their job quite well and I love the kit out. Outside of the melta bomb there is nothing I think I need to add.

My main rationeal behind the storm shield combo in the grey hunters is that it increases the survivability by so much. Against ap4 or worse it is twice as survivable, against ap 3 it is 5 times as survivable. Against ap 2 it is 3 times as survivable on average. All that for an extra 10 points more than I would spend otherwise. I think in a 3 man squad with arjac, make the other two stormshield and something else like wolf claw since arjac is going to mess up anything in CC and they can just tank a few hits/contribute attacks at initiative.

Cyberwolves are boss. I think of them as better assault marines. They increase the model count and ability to spread out for your unit(crucial for multi charges) They have 3 attacks base as well as ignore difficult terrain for charging/moving(once again great for getting the cav around terrain without taking tests). They have counter attack(i believe) as well as a marine stat line. But most importantly......they are characters!!!! Challenge bait/character protection. As far as just being ablative wounds they are not worth it I mean for 10 more points than 2 I could get another thunderwolf, but for everything else they are add to the unit.

Good info about that list, Leth.

Has anybody found the Heavy Support options a bit tough to decide on? I had a mainstay Long Fang unit for a long time with 5x Missile Launchers but with that being 165 points I've started to look at other options. Vindicators aren't really doing it for me, honestly.

Also -- been using Murderfang. Not sure I like him, compared to 10 points more for the 3++ one. Thoughts?

I ran a Terminator unit deep striking with Arjac with a Claw and Storm Shield on every guy, the last being a Thunder Hammer Storm Shield termie. Just a heads up: don't make the same mistake I did and pay the price for the Hammer and take the free shield, when you can just make a single model have a THSS combo for 15 extra points!

Leth, did you ever run into issues with Cyberwolves reducing toughness of the unit? They are in the codex twice as T4, but in the back as T5.

Also, did you drop your IP in with the TWC or have him out on his own?

Only when the techpriest split off to take out a target because there were more of them(I have been going with t4). Since they are usually the first casualties I have not had toughness problems with them. I keep him in my command squad most of the time so the wolves have FNP wounds.

Moveing characters around as fits the situation best but I found that the WGBL and Techmarine in the command squad was plenty of punch and I also found that the thunderwolves had plenty of punch with the chaplain that combining them was overkill and un-necessary against most targets.

For the thunderwolves... is it worth taking the FOC from the champions of fenris book which gives them a +1 WS?

 Gangrel767 wrote:
For the thunderwolves... is it worth taking the FOC from the champions of fenris book which gives them a +1 WS?

If you don't need something from the vanilla 'dex, then yes...

Meh, I like having OS stuff, I can mitigate the WS 4/5 issue easily enough other ways.

 Gangrel767 wrote:
For the thunderwolves... is it worth taking the FOC from the champions of fenris book which gives them a +1 WS?

It depends if you have enough Elites to fill the mandatory slots or not.

TWC get no benefit from a CAD, neither do Wolf Guard packs. If you're taking either of those (or any elites, really), then yes, using the Company of the Great Wolf detachment is superior to CAD or the one from the Codex (whose name I forget).

So, you could do:

CAD - HQ + ObSec Grey Hunters
CotGW - HQ, Iron Priests on TW, TWC

With your heavy support filling in wherever. Not a bad set up, really.

 streamdragon wrote:

 Gangrel767 wrote:
For the thunderwolves... is it worth taking the FOC from the champions of fenris book which gives them a +1 WS?

It depends if you have enough Elites to fill the mandatory slots or not.

TWC get no benefit from a CAD, neither do Wolf Guard packs. If you're taking either of those (or any elites, really), then yes, using the Company of the Great Wolf detachment is superior to CAD or the one from the Codex (whose name I forget).

So, you could do:

CAD - HQ + ObSec Grey Hunters
CotGW - HQ, Iron Priests on TW, TWC

With your heavy support filling in wherever. Not a bad set up, really.

two iron priests on thunderwolves should fill it.

Yup. Well, and an HQ.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Didn't someone have a CAT file for Battlescribe? I can't seem to find the link.

So I played my second game with SW last night (also 2nd game in powerarmour) and got my ass handed to me... Again.. Against Eldar/Dark Eldar. My list wasnt optimized for sure but I wanted to try some things out. Basically what I used was...

WGBL, Russ, Black Death, TWC
5 TWC, 3SS/2TH

Bjorn and Friends in pods, 3 Helfrost Cannon (wanted to try these guys out).

2x5 GH, meltas in Razorback with Assaultcannon
2x5 GH, meltas in pods (Wolfguard Terminator in each unit)

Stormwolf

And what I faced was something like this:

Farseer and a warlock with some bikers
Wraithknight with Suncannon
2 Serpents, Firedragons/Dire Avengers enbarked
Falcon with Avengers
2 Warwalkers
Warpspiders
And I think an Autarch on bike solo.

The DE part was a Haemo with Hexrifle and Casket of Flensing in a Venom and a Voidraven Bomber(?)

He got first turn, didnt manage to seize and basically he blew me off the board in 2 turns. TWC died horribly under the combined fire of the Knight, Warwalkers and Serpents. Bjorn and his bunch made a hole killing the Falcon, the troops inside and sinking the Venom but after that they were left stranded by the fast Eldar army. Called it after 4 turns.

Sure my list was not optimal but a few lessons learned anyway:

It is critical for TWC to have either Fenrisian or Cyberwolves (or both) to soak up damage, the 3+/3++ is not enough with only 2W. Enter Ironpriests...
5++ on a Dread is a bonus not a mean to survive. Will try out the shield/axe combo next time around, and fewer Dreads. If you go ranged go Autocannon for the 54" threatrange.

Where I am still lost though, I feel that I need more threat on the table turn 1 to take some of the heat from the TWC but how? Not only for this particular list which will be scrapped but in general for SW.

Also GH in pods, still not convinced. They drop down, claim an objective and then... die horribly.

If you guys knew that you were facing the Deldar-army i listed in advance, what would you put on the board?

You've just faced an uber-list and probably didn't have enough blos terrain to hide against his shooting. Trust me, TWC are quite durable for their points and many armies will have hard time dealing with them. For example, my orkses. A standard squad of 20 shootaboyz (pk nob, rokkits) will statistically inflict around 1.5 wounds on TWC. Than will promptly die in mellee killing another one or two at best. And this squad of shootaboyz costs ~180 pts. That's the ideal scenario when orks get to shoot and charge.

Yep, wolves are not unkillable but they're really awesome for their points.

Correct, our tournaments dont have much LoS blockers (usually 2-3 per board) so we tend to play the same way at home as well. Regardless, I think SW need some more units on the board turn 1. Now I had the TWC-unit and two Razorbacks which makes the target priority VERY easy for any opponent.

For my next game, whoever the opponent might be ill be trying out something completely different. Landraider Crusaders with Bloodclaws Runepriest and WGBL for that turn 2 prescienced charge, a few Skyclaws with Flamers, Stormwolf, GH in Razorbacks with Lascannons...