NEW space wolf tactics/combos

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**evildrcheese**

Andilus Greatsword wrote:
evildrcheese wrote:
More Dakka wrote:
I like it! But then I like a lot of things that are fun but not necessarily practical.

You're looking at a min 288 points for 3 WG with this loadout and the Priest (with nothing but the jump pack).

It's threatening but it's just going to get nuked by basically any anti-infantry fire.

I think a min sized squad of TDWAG with combi-plas and a priest in a pod are a better potion for 259 points.

I admit it's very pointy for what it does, I plan on magnetising my dudes so I'm definitely going to try this, perhaps with the following load out as part of an allied detachment:

Wolf Priest; runic armour, combo plas, jump pack

Wolf Guard (5) all with jp and, dual plasma pistols

Which clocks in at 395 (ouch)

D

Honestly, you might be better off running the Wolf Priest plus 5x Skyclaws (2x Plasma Guns and a Wolf Guard with combi-plasma or 2x Plas Pistols), which actually puts out more plasma shots at a longer range for 100pts less (less than that if you're running the Wolf Guard with 2x Plas Pistols).

The problem I have with skyclaws is that they're BS3, so whilst they have longer range they're not hitting the target often enough for the points invested, and they still have all the vulnerabilities of the WG. My meta is very power armour heavy, so whilst I think this load out wil prove somewhat success for me, I definitely don't think it's the most competitive or point efficient.

D

**Anpu42**

evildrcheese wrote:
Andilus Greatsword wrote:
evildrcheese wrote:
More Dakka wrote:
I like it! But then I like a lot of things that are fun but not necessarily practical.

You're looking at a min 288 points for 3 WG with this loadout and the Priest (with nothing but the jump pack).

It's threatening but it's just going to get nuked by basically any anti-infantry fire.

I think a min sized squad of TDWAG with combi-plas and a priest in a pod are a better potion for 259 points.

I admit it's very pointy for what it does, I plan on magnetising my dudes so I'm definitely going to try this, perhaps with the following load out as part of an allied detachment:

Wolf Priest; runic armour, combo plas, jump pack

Wolf Guard (5) all with jp and, dual plasma pistols

Which clocks in at 395 (ouch)

D

Honestly, you might be better off running the Wolf Priest plus 5x Skyclaws (2x Plasma Guns and a Wolf Guard with combi-plasma or 2x Plas Pistols), which actually puts out more plasma shots at a longer range for 100pts less (less than that if you're running the Wolf Guard with 2x Plas Pistols).

The problem I have with skyclaws is that they're BS3, so whilst they have longer range they're not hitting the target often enough for the points invested, and they still have all the vulnerabilities of the WG. My meta is very power armour heavy, so whilst I think this load out wil prove somewhat success for me, I definitely don't think it's the most competitive or point efficient.

D

Blood Claws and Skyclaws are not great Anti-Armor Units. They do best in the Anti-Infantry job, mostly because of the BS3. A small pack of Wolf Guard with Combi-Weapons, Melta-Bombs and/or Fist with jump pack can really do a number on most big thing though. You also don't need a Priest with them to give them a boost.

**Andilus Greatsword**

Besides the BS3 (which is mitigated somewhat with the Wolf Priest), how are they any worse at anti-armour than the similarly-equipped Wolf Guard unit, despite costing over 100pts less?

That said, running this as a dedicated anti-armour unit is probably a mistake considering how much they cost. I'm interested in 5x Skyclaws + 2 Meltaguns + Wolf Guard Combi-melta for a very cheap anti-armour option (115pts!). Even with BS3, they're doing to average 2 hits and then can follow up with krak grenades if need be.

**Anpu42**

Andilus Greatsword wrote:
Besides the BS3 (which is mitigated somewhat with the Wolf Priest), how are they any worse at anti-armour than the similarly-equipped Wolf Guard unit, despite costing over 100pts less?

That said, running this as a dedicated anti-armour unit is probably a mistake considering how much they cost. I'm interested in 5x Skyclaws + 2 Meltaguns + Wolf Guard Combi-melta for a very cheap anti-armour option (115pts!). Even with BS3, they're doing to average 2 hits and then can follow up with krak grenades if need be.

As I see it you have two Melta-Guns and maybe a Combi-Melta.
You will probably hit with two Melta Shots the first time giving you a good shot of taking down your target, but after than, you now are probably going to be hitting with only one, and it does not do the job, now what?

**Ragnar69**

Anpu42 wrote:
Andilus Greatsword wrote:
Besides the BS3 (which is mitigated somewhat with the Wolf Priest), how are they any worse at anti-armour than the similarly-equipped Wolf Guard unit, despite costing over 100pts less?

That said, running this as a dedicated anti-armour unit is probably a mistake considering how much they cost. I'm interested in 5x Skyclaws + 2 Meltaguns + Wolf Guard Combi-melta for a very cheap anti-armour option (115pts!). Even with BS3, they're doing to average 2 hits and then can follow up with krak grenades if need be.

As I see it you have two Melta-Guns and maybe a Combi-Melta.
You will probably hit with two Melta Shots the first time giving you a good shot of taking down your target, but after than, you now are probably going to be hitting with only one, and it does not do the job, now what?

In my experience small units with multiple meltas rarely have thec chance to fire twice. But I think a speeder or 2 with double MMs would be better than BCs for anti-tank

**Anpu42**

Ragnar69 wrote:
Anpu42 wrote:
Andilus Greatsword wrote:
Besides the BS3 (which is mitigated somewhat with the Wolf Priest), how are they any worse at anti-armour than the similarly-equipped Wolf Guard unit, despite costing over 100pts less?

That said, running this as a dedicated anti-armour unit is probably a mistake considering how much they cost. I'm interested in 5x Skyclaws + 2 Meltaguns + Wolf Guard Combi-melta for a very cheap anti-armour option (115pts!). Even with BS3, they're doing to average 2 hits and then can follow up with krak grenades if need be.

As I see it you have two Melta-Guns and maybe a Combi-Melta.
You will probably hit with two Melta Shots the first time giving you a good shot of taking down your target, but after than, you now are probably going to be hitting with only one, and it does not do the job, now what?

In my experience small units with multiple meltas rarely have thec chance to fire twice.

That is a separate issue in a way. Wolf Guard can mitigate this a little by being able to take a few Storm Shields, but then they no longer are cheep.
As for the Plasma Gun, while I love them, I would never take them on a Dedicated Assault Unit unless you can make them Relentless like Swiftclaws.

**Leth**

Jump units and calvary are not relentless.

Becareful of that.

**Anpu42**

Leth wrote:
Jump units and calvary are not relentless.

Becareful of that.

Yes that is a big thing a lot of people forget. More than once I have and a Assault Squad with a Combi-Plasma try to Assault me and I had to make them look it up.
Swift Claws on the other hand can make great use of Plasmas and Combi-Plasmas, that and the Multi-Melta Attack bile.

**Leth**

Yep, I equiped my T-wolves with bolters and then looked it up. They all have shields or fists so its not a big deal

Need to be careful with it

**Andilus Greatsword**

Ragnar69 wrote:
Anpu42 wrote:
Andilus Greatsword wrote:
Besides the BS3 (which is mitigated somewhat with the Wolf Priest), how are they any worse at anti-armour than the similarly-equipped Wolf Guard unit, despite costing over 100pts less?

That said, running this as a dedicated anti-armour unit is probably a mistake considering how much they cost. I'm interested in 5x Skyclaws + 2 Meltaguns + Wolf Guard Combi-melta for a very cheap anti-armour option (115pts!). Even with BS3, they're doing to average 2 hits and then can follow up with krak grenades if need be.

As I see it you have two Melta-Guns and maybe a Combi-Melta.
You will probably hit with two Melta Shots the first time giving you a good shot of taking down your target, but after than, you now are probably going to be hitting with only one, and it does not do the job, now what?

In my experience small units with multiple meltas rarely have thec chance to fire twice. But I think a speeder or 2 with double MMs would be better than BCs for anti-tank

If my 115pt suicide squad kills something or draws fire away from the rest of my army, I consider them a success. The more points you pour into that kind of unit though, the less attractive it becomes. I acknowledge that a double-melta Land Speeder is probably the more efficient option though, but Skyclaws would be a tad more survivable.

**Kavish**

10 wolf guard
10 combi-plasmas
1 drop pod

Would kill absolutely anything.
Edit: except av14.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
On second thought, at 315pts there had better be something substantial for them to kill. Maybe just five would do.

**DOOMONYOU**

Its a pity the minimum squad size went up for PAWG. I miss the 3 minimum squad. :(

**karlosovic**

Kavish wrote:
10 wolf guard
10 combi-plasmas
1 drop pod

Would kill absolutely anything.
Edit: except av14.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
On second thought, at 315pts there had better be something substantial for them to kill. Maybe just five would do.

I've been tossing around ideas like this but..... what do they do afterwards?
Are they just a 1-shot suicide squad, or do you buy them even more weapons so they do something else afterwards?
If you gave them plasma pistols instead of combi-plasma, they still get +1A in melee, and can fire for more than 1 turn.... although with either less range or less shots on turn 1

TBH, better value is probably the TDAWG (Does anyone else say this as "T-Dog"?)
since 5 combi weapons is probably overkill most of the time anyway, you could take 3 Termis with combi-weapons.
5 PAWG + combi = 140
3 TDAWG + combi AND Power Weapons = 114
They more survivable and have power weapons (or free SS)

**Anpu42**

What timing, I just added Power Armored Wolf Guard and Terminator Armor to my Synergy thread.

**obsidiankatana**

DOOMONYOU wrote:
Its a pity the minimum squad size went up for PAWG. I miss the 3 minimum squad. :(

It's still on terminators, who also get 5pt combis. 28pts for power armor and a combi vs 38 for combi, terminator armor, and a power weapon. Pod restrictions are a point of contention, but for a combi drop I have a hard time looking at PAWG over the terminators.

**Super Newb**

obsidiankatana wrote:
DOOMONYOU wrote:
Its a pity the minimum squad size went up for PAWG. I miss the 3 minimum squad. :(

It's still on terminators, who also get 5pt combis. 28pts for power armor and a combi vs 38 for combi, terminator armor, and a power weapon. Pod restrictions are a point of contention, but for a combi drop I have a hard time looking at PAWG over the terminators.

28 points for a PAWG with a combi-weapon is just a bit too much IMHO. Especially considering as you said, for only ten points more you get terminator armor and a power weapon...

I mean it's 140 points plus the drop pod for 5 PAWG with combis. That's pricey

**Anpu42**

Super Newb wrote:
obsidiankatana wrote:
DOOMONYOU wrote:
Its a pity the minimum squad size went up for PAWG. I miss the 3 minimum squad. :(

It's still on terminators, who also get 5pt combis. 28pts for power armor and a combi vs 38 for combi, terminator armor, and a power weapon. Pod restrictions are a point of contention, but for a combi drop I have a hard time looking at PAWG over the terminators.

28 points for a PAWG with a combi-weapon is just a bit too much IMHO. Especially considering as you said, for only ten points more you get terminator armor and a power weapon...

I mean it's 140 points plus the drop pod for 5 PAWG with combis. That's pricey

Especially for a suicide unit

**Andilus Greatsword**

Anpu42 wrote:
Super Newb wrote:
obsidiankatana wrote:
DOOMONYOU wrote:
Its a pity the minimum squad size went up for PAWG. I miss the 3 minimum squad. :(

It's still on terminators, who also get 5pt combis. 28pts for power armor and a combi vs 38 for combi, terminator armor, and a power weapon. Pod restrictions are a point of contention, but for a combi drop I have a hard time looking at PAWG over the terminators.

28 points for a PAWG with a combi-weapon is just a bit too much IMHO. Especially considering as you said, for only ten points more you get terminator armor and a power weapon...

I mean it's 140 points plus the drop pod for 5 PAWG with combis. That's pricey

Especially for a suicide unit

With no mobility or real use after the initial shot.

**Jefffar**

TDAWG can't take a Drop Pod as a dedicated transport, meaning you have to rely on their teleporters or use up a fast attack slot for them. The for we means they can't contribute to a turn one drop pod alpha strike, which is a hallmark of Space Wolf tactics. The second means one less slot for Thunderwolves which have become nastily epic this edition.

PAWG face neither of these issues and you can bring twice as many in the pod if you want maximum firepower on arrival.

**obsidiankatana**

Remind me why dedicating one fast slot to a pod is so unreasonable? The only thing remotely competitive in the slot is TWC. If you're running three packs, that's one thing. Else one pod isn't too much to ask, unless of course you want multiple suicide drops, which also probably means less TWC. Now, sure, if you want 6-10 combi weapons shots at something then there's something to be said for PAWG. Else, again, I believe terminators are a better choice.

**Super Newb**

obsidiankatana wrote:
Remind me why dedicating one fast slot to a pod is so unreasonable? The only thing remotely competitive in the slot is TWC. If you're running three packs, that's one thing. Else one pod isn't too much to ask, unless of course you want multiple suicide drops, which also probably means less TWC. Now, sure, if you want 6-10 combi weapons. Shots at something then there's something to be said for PAWG. Else, again, I believe terminators are a better choice.

Here here. We can get 3 melta shots or 6 plasma shots easily enough with a 10 man GH squad in a pod. Don't think most folks will be needing many "suicide" drop units...

**DOOMONYOU**

So games workshop has effectively killed PAWG except for being pack leaders or bikers?

**karlosovic**

What.... they were efficient before?

**Super Newb**

karlosovic wrote:
What.... they were efficient before?

When you could take a squad of 3 and they only cost 23 each with combi-weapons, sure.

**DOOMONYOU**

Super Newb wrote:
karlosovic wrote:
What.... they were efficient before?

When you could take a squad of 3 and they only cost 23 each with combi-weapons, sure.

And split them off to lead other packs and mix TDA, especially with heavy weapon in a PAWG squad.

I am not turning this into a sob story thread. So we are looking for tactics for PAWG now?

How to run then, either combo's with other units or solo tactics, load outs, transports, etc.

Has anyone run Biker wolfguard yet? or Jump pack?

**Anpu42**

From my Space Wolf Synergy Thread:

Name: Wolf Guard [Power Armored]
FOC: Elite
UNIT TYPE: Infantry
UNIT COMPOSITION: 5-10 Models
WARGEAR:
Bolt Pistol
Chain Sword
Frag & Krack Grenades
Power Armor [Save: 3+]
SPECIAL RULES:
Acute Senses
ATSKNF
Counter Attack
OPTIONS:
May replace their Bolt Pistol and/or Chain Sword for a Bolt Gun.
Any Model may take items from Melee and Ranged Weapons
Any Model may take Melta Bombs
The whole Pack may Take Bikes
The whole Pack may take Jump Packs
May take a Rhino, Razorback, Drop Pod, Stormwolf, or any Land Raider as a Dedicated Transport.
What does all of this mean?
This looks to be a very customizable unit. You can tool it up to be everything from a Gunline Force to an Assault Force.
Tools of the Trade and how to use and abuse them.
>Bolt Pistol & Close Combat Weapon: The standard combination. This combination will give you 4 Attacks. Ragnar or someone with the Wulfen Stone will give you a boost.
>Basic Bolter Wolf Guard: By replacing your Bolt Pistol and/or CCW you can take a Bolt Gun [I would suggest the CCW]. Only lightly more expensive than Grey Hunter they can pull of the same basic job of Taking and Holding Objectives. Someone like a Wolf Priest can add a lot to your ability to project firepower.
>Storm Bolters: These give you the ability to make 2 long range shots and Assault after Firing. These might make a good choice if you only take one Specialist Weapon without a Storm Shield. It could be another good choice for as Objective Holders.
>Combi-Bolters: This creates something similar to the Basic Bolter Guard, but with the addition of additional Firepower.
>Combi-Flamer [Template, S4, AP5, Assault-1]: Good for either Taking or Holding Objective. A hand full of these should clear an objective and then another couple will make others wish they did not Assault you.
>Combi-Melta [12” S8, AP1, Assault-1]: If you are going to go Tank or MC hunting this is a good choice with the advantage of being able to Assault after firing.
>Plasma-Gun [24”, S7, AP2, Rapid Fire, Gets Hot]: A great option for Gunline or dealing with MCs and Armor.
>Plasma Pistol [12”, S7, AP2, Pistol, Gets Hot]: These are a good choice, mostly because you trade in your Chain Sword for the Plasma-Pistol, leaving you with your Bolt Pistol allowing you to use Gunslinger and you still get an extra attack for having the second Pistol.
>Frost Axe [S+2, AP-2, Melee, Unwieldy]: A good choice if you are planning on taking on 2+ models. A few in the Pack could really give you the ability to take on most units.
>Frost Sword [S+1, AP-3, Melee]: A good choice if you are planning on taking on most units.
>Power Axe [S+1, AP-2, Melee, Unwieldy]: A good choice if you are planning on taking on 2+ models. A few in the Pack could really give you the ability to take on most units.
>Power Lance [S-User, AP4, Melee or S+1, AP3, Melee on the Assault]: A fluffy and somewhat useful Power Weapon, great for Close Combat Wolf Guards.
>Power Maul [S+2, AP4, Melee, Concussive]: Another overlooked weapon that is good for dealing with Vehicles and MCs. It also lets you keep the extra attack for having 2 Melee Weapon if taken wit a Pistol.
>Power Sword [S-User, AP3, Melee]: A good basic choice for a Close Combat Wolf Guard Pack.
>Power Fist [Sx2, AP2, Specialist Weapon, Unwieldy]: Great for slapping down MCs or Vehicles. I would not give it to the Pack Leader unless it is mixed with a Storm Shield.
>Thunder Hammer [Sx2, AP2, Concussive, Specialist Weapon, Unwieldy]: A classic weapons that give you an extra punch. Again is a good weapon to team up with a Storm Shield, Storm Bolter or even a Combi-Bolter.
>Wolf Claw [S+1, AP3, Shred, Specialist Weapon]: Another very “Wolfy Weapon. Good mixes are Power Fist and Thunder Hammers, giving you a choice of the Wolf Claw or S8 Attacks.
>Storm Shield [3++ Save]: Just a great choice for survivability. I would suggest taking one for the Pack Leader just for Challenge Protection.
Dedicated Transport Options:
>Rhino [Model Capacity: 10 Models]: A great cheep no frills choice to get your Wolf Guard across the field.
>Razorback [Model Capacity: 6 Models]: Not as cheep as a Rhino, but it gives you extra firepower and can take up to 6 Wolf Guard.
>Drop Pod [Model Capacity: 10 models]: A quick way to get your Wolf Guard into the backfield. Good Weapon choices are Combi-Weapons and a few Storm Shields.
>Land Raider “God-Hammer” [Model Capacity: 10 Models]: A good solid choice with its mix of toughness and Long range Fire Power. Good with both types of Builds.
>Land Raider Crusader [Model Capacity: 16 Models]: This is a good in close Vehicle and with the extra space you can easily add as Wolf Lord or Wolf Guard Battle Leader with his Wolves. Probably best with a Close Combat Build.
>Land Raider Redeemer [Model Capacity: 12 Models]: Similar to the LRC, though instead of Bolters it has Flame Throwers. With its 12 model capacity you could even add a Character in Terminator Armor or both a Rune Priest and Wolf Priest.
>Stormwolf [Model Capacity: 16]: Similar to the LRC, but you must start in Reserves, but when you show up you will move quickly.

**karlosovic**

I'd be keen to try either of those combos, being a fan of bikers and jump pack type blood claws.
I'm just not sure how points effective they'd be compared to the cheapness of the blood claw versions

**Andilus Greatsword**

Maybe it's just me, but Bike and Jump Pack Wolf Guard just seem outclassed by their Blood Claw counter-parts in terms of points-efficiency.

I'm not really choked up if PAWG suck now though, I only ever ran Wolf Guard as pack leaders (which is an upgrade now, obviously), or in Terminator Armour.

**Ragnar69**

karlosovic wrote:
I'd be keen to try either of those combos, being a fan of bikers and jump pack type blood claws.
I'm just not sure how points effective they'd be compared to the cheapness of the blood claw versions

I think jumpers would be too expensive but bikes would be ok because Swiftclaws don't have a CCW. For only 5 points more you get +1 WS/BS, +1 A on a charge and +2 A when not charging.

**Anpu42**

I don't see Powered Armored Wolf Guard in a "Competitive Setting", but if tooled up right they could be devastating.
I could also see them in a larger game being used to slow down Death Stars when loaded up with Storm Shields.