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 Fenris Frost wrote:
Yes, his is just Preferred Enemy everything.

The buff is awesome but the way I see it that was ~500 points that wasn't on your board until turn 3, so I don't know how I'd feel about it.

Besides if all those models rapid fired how'd they charge into CC anyway?!

Karlosvic had it, 3 units rapid fired at be'lakor, then he charged into a unit, killed 4, then died to the 24 return attacks.
If I was to run that unit again, it would not be with champs of fenris, it would be wolves unleashed, just to make sure I can get the unit in on turn 2. I would probably be running a troop heavy drop pod and transport army. Possibly pick up some bikes to have a little fun with as well.

The thread in this forum about using the Imperial Bunker offensively with the Escape Hatch seems like it would be a boon to shootier units, or ones with characters for tanking. I am definitely going to try this since I've been taking the Bunker anyway, getting out that close to the enemy on turn 1 saves me a drop pod's worth of points or so, plus the unit can be bigger than the limiting 10-man capacity in a pod.

Any thoughts on how we can best utilize this? I'm thinking Ulrik and a Priest with a big squad of Grey Hunters kitted to the nines.

I've been running the following with great success. (1500 pts)

Wolf Lord - wolf claw, storm shield, runic armour, thunderwolf.
5 x Thunderwolves - 3 x storm shield, thunder hammer, 2 x melta bombs.

Rune priest - helm of Durfast, armour of russ, psychic hood ML2, melta bombs, digital weapons.
GH x 9 - 5 x CCW, melta, Power fist, standard, WGPL with power fist and combi-melta.
Drop pod.

GH x 10 - 6 x CCW, 2 x melta, power fist, WGPL a with power fist and combi-melta.
Drop pod.

GH x 10 - 6 x CCW, 2 x plasma gun, power fist, WGPL a with power fist and combi-melta.
Drop pod.

Yea, I gave in and decided that it's ok to take multiple relics on one guy. Every one else was doing it. When your facing biker captains with the shield eternal and that flaming sword.... You know the saying; if you can't beat em'...

Anyway what you gonna do? Kill the GH? Now the Thunderwolves are gonna mess you up. Kill the Thunderwolves? You probably couldn't kill them all and now the GH are continuing to mess you up. That auto reserves thing is the best thing ever to happen to drop pod grey hunters.

Looks like a sweet list, and one I could try out too! I like to give my TWC leader a wolf claw, and generally he does challenges for PF, while my lord slaps the unit so hard that by I1 the powerfist is slapping the challenger.
Do you prefer biomancy, or tempestus on the RP? Ignore cover living lightning should be nice, but ignore cover smite should also be cool.

 gwarsh41 wrote:
Looks like a sweet list, and one I could try out too! I like to give my TWC leader a wolf claw, and generally he does challenges for PF, while my lord slaps the unit so hard that by I1 the powerfist is slapping the challenger.
Do you prefer biomancy, or tempestus on the RP? Ignore cover living lightning should be nice, but ignore cover smite should also be cool.

Don't know yes, I have mostly been using a Divination Priest. The one time I took out a Tempest Priest I put him with my Blood Claws in a Stormwolf and just after unloading the other player had to head out.

Thanks. For psychic disciplines it depends on the opponent. Against tyranids I'll take biomancy every time. Against Toughness 3 tempestus is good. Divination when you need to make sure those plasmas do a good job. I tend to steer away from divination though because he already has the helm of Durfast. I know it's not popular, but I actually like Telekinesis when my opponent has a vehicle heavy list. Obdurate on Mechanicum's ability to hit flyers is great, and a Str 6 beam with ignores cover out of a drop pod is nothing to sniff at.

Well I just played a game with the Champions of Fenris using the Arjac Formation. Normally 1st times using a unit is a cure that fails utterly, but I think my Bad Karma with Stormwolves took all of that up with this game Vs AM [Guard].
The list was a variation of my Logan Wing lead by Ragnar. I also used this to test two of my Battle-Theories.
Battle-Theories:
>Give the Arjac and buddies a try.
>More Testing with the Stormwolf/Skyshield Landing Pad Tactic
>Bare Bones Wolf Guard as a viable unit.

Ragnar was in a Stormwolf with a Divination Rune Priest [I had planed on going with Biomancy, but I forgot that was part of the initial plan until Turn 2 ] and 10 Bare Bones Power Armored Wolf Guard (The WGPL had paired Wolf Claws) in the Storm Wolf sitting on the Skyshield
Landing Pad Ready for Take off.
Arjac and his Wolf Guard in the LRC with a Wolf Lord (Krakenbone Sword] and a Tempest Rune Priest in Terminator Armor.
The other was a Terminator Squad [Paired Wolf Claws, 3x with Wolf Claw/Chain Fist, Assault Cannon/Power Maul] just Teleporting in [Did not Show up to Turn 3.

Arjac and his Precision Thunder Hammer Whack-A-Mole Drill Team killed off 2 Chimeras, 2x Melta Vet Squads, a Sniper Team. The best kill was the Taurox that I rolled 3x 6s in a row, 6 To Hit, 6 to Pen, 6 for the Explosion Radius. The Death Toll for that one Hammer Throw was, 1x Taurox, 6 Vets and 3 Scions.
The Wolf Guard Terminators mostly killed off Creed and his Command squad.
Stormwolf...Turn one catches every weapon that could fire at him, Pie Plates front The Sky, Basilisk Rounds, Lost count of the HK Missiles and Auto Cannon shots, and nothing happened. The a stupid HWS gets a Luck shot and Immobilizes it before it could leave the Landing Pad... . I think I am cursed with my Stormwolves. Forcing Ragnar to hitch a ride on the LRC [After managing to pull off a Turn One Assault] as I was not going to cross a open field with 2 Pie Plates running around. Once I got them past a HWT, a Chimera finally got to the Basilisk and silenced it.

Conclusions:
>Arjac's Formation Rocks, it was fun watching Las-Guns Needing 6's to wound. I will use this one again.
>Stormwolf/Skyshield Landing Pad, still don't know. Every time I pull it out everything hat can go wrong does and it is usually freak rolls.

I'm about to finish assembling and painting my space wolves to use them again and I had a couple units I was trying to plan out before I did so.

For a unit of bloodclaws in a stormwolf, would it be better to attach Ulrik or a generic Wolf priest with the mark of the wulfen?

Thunderwolf Cavalry, I'm debating a wolf guard battle leader with the armor of russ or a wolf lord with auric armor leading the charge to soak up fire. Is this a waste of their abilities? Figured I'd have a couple wolves or a storm shield model nearby to los with too just in case.

I know a lot of people have advocated iron priests in the twc too, but I was more tempted by a wolf priest on a bike in the unit. Seems pricey though when I could just get several more bare twc instead.

There is no more Mark of the Wulfen, just FYI.

Ulrik is the accepted accompaniment for most things in a Storm Wolf, just because his buff extends out of the plane itself, and is Preferred Enemy without any restrictions as opposed to being relegated to a unit type for a regular Wolf Priest.

 lessthanjeff wrote:
I'm about to finish assembling and painting my space wolves to use them again and I had a couple units I was trying to plan out before I did so.

Experimentation if half the fun.

For a unit of bloodclaws in a stormwolf, would it be better to attach Ulrik or a generic Wolf priest with the mark of the wulfen?

I think I more depends on what you face and what you are planning on throwing them at.
Ulrik: He is a Multi-Tool an buffs those around him to.
Wolf Priest: Can be cheaper and does great if you are planning on going after just one Type of Target.
There are some more subtle differences, but hat is the crux of it.

Thunderwolf Cavalry, I'm debating a wolf guard battle leader with the armor of russ or a wolf lord with auric armor leading the charge to soak up fire. Is this a waste of their abilities? Figured I'd have a couple wolves or a storm shield model nearby to los with too just in case.

Either are a good choice. Storm Shields are never a bad choice.

I know a lot of people have advocated iron priests in the twc too, but I was more tempted by a wolf priest on a bike in the unit. Seems pricey though when I could just get several more bare twc instead.

Iron Priest: What the Iron Priest gives you are multiple S10 AP1 Attacks in Close Combat real cheap, that and the 2+ Save. Tack on some Cyberwolves and he can take a lot of Damage.
Wolf Priest: This is a great choice for a Buffing your TWC.
Rune Priest: This has started to be popular and relatively cheap way to add Biomancy to your TWC.

Whoops, I guess the artifact is called the Wulfen Stone.

Thanks for the input. I usually play lots of small units in my other armies, so I like the idea of just a few hard hitting units in this one.

So far I'm looking at one big thunderwolf cavalry unit with a couple characters, 1 large bloodclaw unit in a stormwolf with a couple characters, and then one terminator unit with a couple characters coming by droppod. A final min bloodclaw unit would fill my troop reqs and sit back on an objective.

The 4 wolf guard terminators would have combi plasma (and a couple with stormshields), 1 wolf priest with combi-plasma, and 1 rune priest with helm of durfast and combi plasma all in a drop-pod for first turn arrival. Seems like it would wipe out any one vehicle, monstrous creature, or unit and then be tough to remove in response.

It's making me nervous having so few units like this because it's so different from my other armies. I also hate seeing that each unit costs 500ish points, but thought it would be fun to mix it up like that. I may have to trim some points here and there to run a couple long fang units or squeeze in my old trusty vindicare assassin.

You'd think the plasma would be effective, but it often isn't. Enough will miss that it won't get the job done against most MCs and cover is pretty ubiquitous. I know it's sarcrilege but I've had better luck using weaker weapons in larger numbers than I ever have with plasma.

 Fenris Frost wrote:
You'd think the plasma would be effective, but it often isn't. Enough will miss that it won't get the job done against most MCs and cover is pretty ubiquitous. I know it's sarcrilege but I've had better luck using weaker weapons in larger numbers than I ever have with plasma.

I don't know about Wolf Guard with Combi-Plasmas, but I always do good with mine.
My real problem with my Drop Pod Plasma Hunters is 90% of the time the two Plasma Guns kill off the Vehicle before anything leaving me with nothing else to fire at the rear AV10 Armor.

I tested rolled it out a fair number of times against a lot of units I'd want to wipe out first turn like flying tyrant, riptide, wraithknight, and centurions. I think I had maybe 1 in 20 test rolls not wipe out the target. It's that you get 12 shots rerolling 1's to hit and wound that wipes them out. The priest also adds a little extra versatility with his spells but I was planning on Living Lightning.

Monstrous creatures and vehicles don't get cover saves for just being in the area terrain, so I would think the drop pod placement and subsequent move should make it pretty consistent that you can deny them a save. Even without cover though, I was rolling through the tyrant's jink and the riptide's invuln.

I have been dickering with running this at 1850:

Space Wolves Allied Detachment : 1235
WGBL: TWC, Runic Armour, Black Death, Helm of Durfast, Wulfen Stone, Stormshield 225
5 Blood Claws: Stormwolf, TL Lascannons: Skyhammer Missiles, TL Helfrost Cannon 275
Iron Priest: Thunderwolf Mount; 2× Cyberwolf 135
6 TWC, 2x Chainsword/Meltabomb, 1x Wolf Claw/Stormshield, 1x Thunderhammer/Stromshield, Ix Power Fist/Stormhield, 1x Chainsword/Storm Shield 380
Sicaran Battle Tank: 2x Lascannon Sponsons, Armoured Ceramite, Twin-linked Accelerator Autocannon, Schism of Mars (Rapid Tracking) 220


White Scars Primary Detachment: 615
Kor'sarro Khan: Moondrakkan 150 (warlord)
2x 5 Scouts: Scout Sergeant, Combi-melta 260
5 Bikes: 2x Grav, Sargeant Combi-grav 145
Stalker 75

What are people's thoughts on the Bite of Fenris vs. Combi-plasma? I usually like to throw a combi-plasma on a Wolf Priest when I stick him with a BC pack that also has Plasmaguns. Just wondering because the combi and the Bite are the same price but I like the option of having Helfrost or a stronger bolter shot that ignores cover without having to worry about overheating and blasting my Wolf Priest's face off.

 Anpu42 wrote:

Battle-Theories:
>Give the Arjac and buddies a try.
>More Testing with the Stormwolf/Skyshield Landing Pad Tactic
>Bare Bones Wolf Guard as a viable unit.

I really want to try bare bones wolf guard as well. On paper, 10 WG will beat 15 blood claws in damage output against WS3 and up. Cool to hear that Arjac did so well too, that formation is the soul reason I bought a land raider. Putting WG with Ragnar just seems so much more right than blood claws, I can't believe I never thought of that, thank you!

 lessthanjeff wrote:
I tested rolled it out a fair number of times against a lot of units I'd want to wipe out first turn like flying tyrant, riptide, wraithknight, and centurions. I think I had maybe 1 in 20 test rolls not wipe out the target. It's that you get 12 shots rerolling 1's to hit and wound that wipes them out. The priest also adds a little extra versatility with his spells but I was planning on Living Lightning.

Monstrous creatures and vehicles don't get cover saves for just being in the area terrain, so I would think the drop pod placement and subsequent move should make it pretty consistent that you can deny them a save. Even without cover though, I was rolling through the tyrant's jink and the riptide's invuln.

Monstrous Creatures do get a cover save for area terrain, though. 12 combi shots, re-rolling 1's, and one of them ignoring cover and re-rolling entirely, is probably pretty effective. I don't consider that a very durable unit though, I could see it getting punked (and likely giving up Warlord+potentially more VP) pretty easily. Remember also that a Wolf Priest only gives preferred enemy against one unit type, decided before the game. Ulrik would probably be a better choice, I think, for a comparable points investment. You lose a plasma shot though, I believe. Tough sell either way.

One of the things I hate about the codex is there are really no more effective cheap options, you have to blow points all over on Wargear and really end up no better off survivability-wise much of the time.

 gwarsh41 wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

Battle-Theories:
>Give the Arjac and buddies a try.
>More Testing with the Stormwolf/Skyshield Landing Pad Tactic
>Bare Bones Wolf Guard as a viable unit.

I really want to try bare bones wolf guard as well. On paper, 10 WG will beat 15 blood claws in damage output against WS3 and up. Cool to hear that Arjac did so well too, that formation is the soul reason I bought a land raider. Putting WG with Ragnar just seems so much more right than blood claws, I can't believe I never thought of that, thank you!

Well next time I am just putting him in a Pod with His Wolf Guard an a Rune Priest with Biomancy.

Here is the rough base of what I have planed, it is still under refinement.

The Wolves Unleashed Detachment (2000 pts)

Arjac and the Shieldbrothers is a great formation. Everything in the unit is good, and when you add all the bonuses up it makes the 3ppm premium of the TH/SS TDAWG worth it (over codex Termies with TH/SS that is).

The only issue with them is finding a good enough target to focus that 355 points at. They excel against other melee deathstars and MC's, but in my last game they were basically chewing through tactical squads, which is OK I guess, but not their real bread and butter.

I stuck Ulrik in the unit the first time I played them and he made the whole formation godly, from the guns on the LRC to Arjac's hammer toss, etc, being able to re-roll ones is just so satisfying.

Arjac at the fore of the unit also lets you break up wound saturation with Look out Sirs, I tanked about 21 AP2/1 shots in a single shooting phase (thanks grav guns!) and being able to roll the 3++ saves out one at a time worked out well.

 Fenris Frost wrote:
Monstrous Creatures do get a cover save for area terrain, though. 12 combi shots, re-rolling 1's, and one of them ignoring cover and re-rolling entirely, is probably pretty effective. I don't consider that a very durable unit though, I could see it getting punked (and likely giving up Warlord+potentially more VP) pretty easily. Remember also that a Wolf Priest only gives preferred enemy against one unit type, decided before the game. Ulrik would probably be a better choice, I think, for a comparable points investment. You lose a plasma shot though, I believe. Tough sell either way.

One of the things I hate about the codex is there are really no more effective cheap options, you have to blow points all over on Wargear and really end up no better off survivability-wise much of the time.

Interesting, I thought the specification about needing 25% coverage was for vehicles and monstrous creatures. That will make it less likely that they knock out a wraithknight in the opening volley, but most of the other units I ran numbers against a 5++ or 4+ jink anyway. Averages still give over 6 wounds to centurions, obliterators, and other devastator equivalent units, 4 wounds to Flying Tyrants, and 5 wounds to a riptide.

Alas, Ulrik is already penciled in with a storm wolf full of blood claws unit. The drop pod unit won't be giving up warlord for me though (nor do I see them giving up any other victory points unless it's purge the alien). Survivability wise, I will be depending on the couple storm shields and the terminator armor to protect the two priests though. It's entirely possible they'll be wiped out in the following turn, but they seem to have pretty good odds of wiping out the one unit that poses the greatest threat to them so hopefully the termies out front can endure the attacks of the rest of the army pretty well. Maybe I should look at regular wolf guard to cram a couple more combi-plasmas in and put a WGBL in termie armor and storm shield out front instead.

 lessthanjeff wrote:

 Fenris Frost wrote:
Monstrous Creatures do get a cover save for area terrain, though. 12 combi shots, re-rolling 1's, and one of them ignoring cover and re-rolling entirely, is probably pretty effective. I don't consider that a very durable unit though, I could see it getting punked (and likely giving up Warlord+potentially more VP) pretty easily. Remember also that a Wolf Priest only gives preferred enemy against one unit type, decided before the game. Ulrik would probably be a better choice, I think, for a comparable points investment. You lose a plasma shot though, I believe. Tough sell either way.

One of the things I hate about the codex is there are really no more effective cheap options, you have to blow points all over on Wargear and really end up no better off survivability-wise much of the time.

Interesting, I thought the specification about needing 25% coverage was for vehicles and monstrous creatures. That will make it less likely that they knock out a wraithknight in the opening volley, but most of the other units I ran numbers against a 5++ or 4+ jink anyway. Averages still give over 6 wounds to centurions, obliterators, and other devastator equivalent units, 4 wounds to Flying Tyrants, and 5 wounds to a riptide.

Alas, Ulrik is already penciled in with a storm wolf full of blood claws unit. The drop pod unit won't be giving up warlord for me though (nor do I see them giving up any other victory points unless it's purge the alien). Survivability wise, I will be depending on the couple storm shields and the terminator armor to protect the two priests though. It's entirely possible they'll be wiped out in the following turn, but they seem to have pretty good odds of wiping out the one unit that poses the greatest threat to them so hopefully the termies out front can endure the attacks of the rest of the army pretty well. Maybe I should look at regular wolf guard to cram a couple more combi-plasmas in and put a WGBL in termie armor and storm shield out front instead.

Ruins are the one class of terrain where you do not need to be 25% obscure any more. There is no "area terrain" as something defined in the rule book anymore, but the new "Ruins" are basically 6th ed. "area terrain"

 astro_nomicon wrote:

 lessthanjeff wrote:

 Fenris Frost wrote:
Monstrous Creatures do get a cover save for area terrain, though. 12 combi shots, re-rolling 1's, and one of them ignoring cover and re-rolling entirely, is probably pretty effective. I don't consider that a very durable unit though, I could see it getting punked (and likely giving up Warlord+potentially more VP) pretty easily. Remember also that a Wolf Priest only gives preferred enemy against one unit type, decided before the game. Ulrik would probably be a better choice, I think, for a comparable points investment. You lose a plasma shot though, I believe. Tough sell either way.

One of the things I hate about the codex is there are really no more effective cheap options, you have to blow points all over on Wargear and really end up no better off survivability-wise much of the time.

Interesting, I thought the specification about needing 25% coverage was for vehicles and monstrous creatures. That will make it less likely that they knock out a wraithknight in the opening volley, but most of the other units I ran numbers against a 5++ or 4+ jink anyway. Averages still give over 6 wounds to centurions, obliterators, and other devastator equivalent units, 4 wounds to Flying Tyrants, and 5 wounds to a riptide.

Alas, Ulrik is already penciled in with a storm wolf full of blood claws unit. The drop pod unit won't be giving up warlord for me though (nor do I see them giving up any other victory points unless it's purge the alien). Survivability wise, I will be depending on the couple storm shields and the terminator armor to protect the two priests though. It's entirely possible they'll be wiped out in the following turn, but they seem to have pretty good odds of wiping out the one unit that poses the greatest threat to them so hopefully the termies out front can endure the attacks of the rest of the army pretty well. Maybe I should look at regular wolf guard to cram a couple more combi-plasmas in and put a WGBL in termie armor and storm shield out front instead.

Ruins are the one class of terrain where you do not need to be 25% obscure any more. There is no "area terrain" as something defined in the rule book anymore, but the new "Ruins" are basically 6th ed. "area terrain"

It's a little more esoteric than that, they opted to go with a language based thing. Anything that says it gives a cover save for being "in cover behind" it is a thing requiring 25% obscured for the save (regardless of what model it is). There's a bold paragraph in the rules at the beginning of the section on cover explaining it.

Being "in cover behind" pretty much anything gets a cover save, and being "in" anything that is difficult terrain confers a 5+. Vehicles have an exception to "in" cover in their rules. MCs don't.

It's written in a streamlined way but it can be confusing because they decided to delineate language that we normally might have considered to mean the same thing.

I believe rubble also specifies not needing 25% too. I was thinking there's another as well, but I'd have to check.

I'm starting to lean towards just taking two wolf guard drop pod units of 6 or 7 combi plasmas instead of one unit with a rune and wolf priest too. Having multiple units would also increase the value of Ulrik being placed with them, so maybe I'd pull him from the Stormwolf to give two bigger units preferred enemy. Not sure what I'd do with a 3rd droppod to get the others both in on first turn though, maybe a dreadnought with assault cannon and heavy flamer.

I find it's better to go with the Helfrost cannon on Dreads. I don't know what it is but they keep coming up huge for me, and the ability to switch between high strength and decent AP3 blast is pretty flexible during a game.

Actually it's "in cover behind" difficult terrain that gives you a cover save. Monstrous creatures (or anything else for that matter) need to be in ruins(4+) or a forest(5+) or craters(6+) to get a cover save if not 25% obscured.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yea and rubble.

Interesting. I did want to try out the helfrost weapons, so the dread would be a good option for that. Sold.

I was wanting to try running The Great Company detachment sometime. Anybody have any luck with it as a detachment?

 Gamerely wrote:
I was wanting to try running The Great Company detachment sometime. Anybody have any luck with it as a detachment?

I have been Having S0-So luck with it and LUCK is the key word.
I have been using it with Arjac's Shield Brothers, a Wolf Guard Terminator Squad and Power Armored Wolf Guard Pack with Ragnar in a Stormwolf.
Arjac and His Terminators Wreck Face and the Terminator Wolf Guard do well, but I keep getting freak luck with my Stormwolf and having it getting Immobilized while on the Landing Pad or making my Jink for Every Penetrating Hit and then Tanking the 3 Glancing Hits.

Otherwise though I like it.

 Anpu42 wrote:

 Gamerely wrote:
I was wanting to try running The Great Company detachment sometime. Anybody have any luck with it as a detachment?

I have been Having S0-So luck with it and LUCK is the key word.
I have been using it with Arjac's Shield Brothers, a Wolf Guard Terminator Squad and Power Armored Wolf Guard Pack with Ragnar in a Stormwolf.
Arjac and His Terminators Wreck Face and the Terminator Wolf Guard do well, but I keep getting freak luck with my Stormwolf and having it getting Immobilized while on the Landing Pad or making my Jink for Every Penetrating Hit and then Tanking the 3 Glancing Hits.

Otherwise though I like it.

Hmhm, I was wanting to give it a try. Seems like a good way of bringing a little bit of everything and a great way of seeing how it all works together. I may need to bring some Dreads though. Gamerely loves Dreads.