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A friend of mine seems to be misinterpreting the psychic phase which I really don't understand so I figured I would post here for some clarity, and hopefully to help clear things up for him.

Lets say the Offense is me [grey knights] and Defense is my friend [space marines]

Take the following example, a 4 is rolled in psychic phase, Offense gets 4+5 [4 brotherhoods and a psychic pilot] and defense gets 4.

My friends interpretation:
- Offense casts a blessing on his own unit, but defense has adamantium will on his HQ, defense gets a 5+ to deny the blessing.
- Offense goes for a 1 Warp Charge with 4 dice, and is successful with 2 dice, defense needs 1 charge to deny as per the original 1 Warp charge Requirement to manifest.
- Defense uses 4 dice to deny and fails to deny, attacker gets 3 warp dice back for manifesting a 1 Warp Charge
- Defense uses 4 dice to deny and is successful, both players lose 4 warp dice.

My interpretation:
- Offense casts a Power on his own unit, defense gets a 6+ to deny the blessing, Adamantium Will only works when the model / unit with the rule is being targeted...
- Offense goes for a 1 Warp Charge with 4 dice, and is successful with 2 dice, defense needs 2 charges to deny.
- Defense uses 4 dice to deny and fails to deny, BOTH players have used 4 warp dice and therefore discard said 4 warp dice.
- Defense uses 4 dice to deny and is successful, both players lose 4 warp dice. BOTH players have used 4 warp dice and therefore discard said 4 warp dice.

Also to stomp this one out before it even comes up, and I know it will unless I rend it out now:
- Offense casts a Power on his own unit, defense gets a 6+ to deny the blessing, Defensive Psyker only comes into play when the Psyker, his unit, or units within his psychic hood aura are is being targeted...


If anyone could tell me what page the grey knight bit for not getting perils for doubles on sanctic was I would be super grateful too... that one is pretty annoying to even consider arguing about, but it does happen, I was so sure it was connected to the sanctic page... but its not there and it isn't in manifesting or perils either...

Finally, If any Lord Inquisitor of the 7th edition rulebook could help me purge some rulebook heresy I would be most grateful.


Thanks!

Your interpretation is correct. You only get to use Adamantium Will if that specific unit is being targeted. Also, why would you possibly get a war dice "refund". This is crazy. Once you roll the dice, they've been rolled.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Small rulebook, page 26, upper left give you the specific wording and reasoning as to why Adamantium Will only works if a specific unit is being targeted.

Small rulebook, page 28, right column "The Discipline of Daemonology" gives you wording for why Grey Knights don't peril on doubles.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I don't have a quote for the dice refund thing because that seems to be just made up.

He completely made up most of those rules for the psychic phase. 'attacker gets 3 warp dice back for manifesting a 1 Warp Charge' I mean really? There's nothing even close to this in the rulebook. He was just blatantly cheating.

Psychic powers that don't target an enemy can only be denied on 6s. The rulebook says that to deny a spell that doesn't target your units, all modifiers are ignored.

Don't forget in your example he would only get 4 dice if he didn't have a psyker in his army. If he had a lvl l2 ibrarian for example he would get 6 (4+2) dice.

Thanks for the references guys, I will make sure to note them as they directly effect the gameplay as a whole, I was so sure 4+5 didn't equal 20+

Before this it was "Psykers get D6 + Level... PER PSYKER" took a while to explain how that was WRONG.

Now heres the best part... I don't own nor have I actually read through 7th ed rulebook yet... my interpretation comes purely from Fantasy Magic Phase and 6th edition rulebook. Usually I am the rule mastah who people look to for the specific rules mainly to keep the game flowing rather than stopping to find rules every few minutes, if I am unsure I will always tell them to double check the rulebook, we are transitioning to 7th now and with a deathly ear infection and lots of painkillers in me I was not really in the mood to argue against someone who actually owns the book, after all they have surely read it enough if they are able to argue their case...

You know...

I would probably call cheating if he had fielded any psykers, I actually felt like the cheater for giving up on the argument... fortunately I only needed to hammerhand 2-3 units and sanctuary 1 so it was easy to get around it, but If I fielded a psyker with prescience or vortex... I would feel REALLY bad...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

optimusprime14 wrote:
If he had a lvl l2 ibrarian for example he would get 6 (4+2) dice.

So he gets his full psy rating for dispel/deny too? thanks for the info!

If you don't own the rule book, it's going to be really hard to learn the rules. I'd suggest picking up a rule book.

Well that would be the plan ^^' I would be picking it up more for argument sake.

Thanks for the confirmations by the way guys, hopefully my gaming group will get better as a few more copies of 7th come in and we aren't run by other peoples interpretations of the rules and can play the actual rules!

Seriously, you need the rule book. All of these questions are very clearly answered in it. Just because WFB has the word warhammer in the title does not make it a substitute. There are quite a few rules (poison, scout, etc) that have the same name and very different mechanics between fantasy and 40k.