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"Giving" us Draigo is kind of like giving somebody herpes.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
"Giving" us Draigo is kind of like giving somebody herpes.

Dragio is an intreasting concept, and could actually be awesomely cool if given the right treatment. his fluff needs a bit of a rewrite but the general concept is kinda cool

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Brothererekose wrote:

Good fluff? Kelly

I call that Game and Match, kids.

Kelly gave us Canis Wolfborn as a new character. He may not have started the wolf theme naming, but he sure ran with it. "Wolf wolfborn, riding a giant wolf!" Thats easily as bad as some of the original Rogue Trader nonsense, like Ferrus Manus leading the Iron Hands, or Corax's last words being "Nevermore!"
Ward gave us .... and Vulkan Hes'Tan and Kosarro Khan, finally adding interesting faces to two neglected chapters.

Game tied up again.

Damn it! Someone remembered that Ward wrote the spehss muhreen book.

Well played, Major. Well played.

I started to dislike Ward books with Blood Angles. He did three things that never should have happened and have changed the face of 40K forever and IMO, not in a positive way. Bubble Effects, MC stats on infantry sized models, and lack of deciding choice. Every unit could take every transport, If you wanted a model on the table, regardless of what was already taken, you could fit it in somewhere else.

Next was GK and all hell broke loose... So many special rules ontop of special rules that even with WYSIWYG you still never new exactly what a GK unit could do unless you yourself played the army. The more insane fluff has been covered by others.

And Lastly Necrons. I don't know how far he was responsible for the change in Necrons, but never has an army done a 180 in fluff like these guys. Add it the continuation of a lot of the problems that both GK and BA introduced and its understandable why the Necron codex can be so vehemently disliked both on and off the table top.

But to his credit and maybe GWs master plan, his books sold whole armies, not just the odd unit. Lots of plastic went out the door because of his OTT rule sets.

 Jayden63 wrote:
I started to dislike Ward books with Blood Angles. He did three things that never should have happened and have changed the face of 40K forever and IMO, not in a positive way. Bubble Effects, MC stats on infantry sized models, and lack of deciding choice. Every unit could take every transport, If you wanted a model on the table, regardless of what was already taken, you could fit it in somewhere else.

Next was GK and all hell broke loose... So many special rules ontop of special rules that even with WYSIWYG you still never new exactly what a GK unit could do unless you yourself played the army. The more insane fluff has been covered by others.

And Lastly Necrons. I don't know how far he was responsible for the change in Necrons, but never has an army done a 180 in fluff like these guys. Add it the continuation of a lot of the problems that both GK and BA introduced and its understandable why the Necron codex can be so vehemently disliked both on and off the table top.

But to his credit and maybe GWs master plan, his books sold whole armies, not just the odd unit. Lots of plastic went out the door because of his OTT rule sets.

Agree with everything except for the "MC stats on infantry character"

Mephiston always had beastly stats as far back as the 3e codex. (If someone could find the 2e Angels of Death codex, I'm sure he has nasty stats there too).

Best news all day.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Andy Chambers ... [wrote] damn good rules.

No, no, no. Andy Chambers was an inspired creative force, a man who could (and still can!) conjure up imagery and stories that rivalled almost anyone who has worked at Games Workshop past, future or present. He is responsible for some of the greatest things in 40K/WFB lore, and has shaped everything we love about those settings in ways we can't comprehend.

But the man couldn't write rules to save himself.

You are right about the background aspects of his influence on 40k. His homebrew campaign stories in White Dwarf were awesome.
Rules-wise, he wasn't bad. I've always liked the Starship Troopers rules he wrote.

It was his leadership that gave us the VDR and TAR, as well as the Witchhunters, Daemonhunters, and the campaign Codices (Armageddon, Eye of Terror).
I have always been disappointed that they weren't able to get the Deathwatch/XenosHunters Codex out before GW forced them to put out 4th edition.

In Memorium...

... Bloodstrike Missiles, Bloodsong, Blood Crozius, Liturgies of Blood, Bloodshard Shells, The Sanguinor (in toto), the Blood Reaver, Blood Talons, Blood Fists, Magna-Grapple, The Bloodtide, The Vault of Labyrinths, Nemesis Dreadknights, Nemesis DOOOOOOOOMfists, Lord Kaldor Draigo (in toto), units of Daemonhosts, Nemesis Warding Staff, the Ulumeathi Plasma Syphon, NuCrons, C'Tan Shards, an army of robots that still requires robots to pilot their robots, The Alliance at Devil's Crag (aka. The Bro-Fist heard across the Imperum), Tomb Blades...

... may we never forget.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Vermis wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
It happened, 5th Ed BA codex, and was referenced again in the Necron book IIRC

...
...

Necron codex wrote:
The Silent King reluctantly joins forces with the Blood Angels to defeat a Tyranid splinter fleet.

That's it. The "Bro-fisting" was just people ranting about the very idea, and blowing the whole thing out of proportion. Because it is witty to do things like that regarding GW fluff, or give things "funny" pejorative names like Failcast or Finecost or Space Chipmunk.

I don't read the fluff so I don't care much about that kind of stuff. It does make sense in the context of a complete redesign of Necrons and the introduction of the Allies rule though.

It was obvious when Allies was just a rumour that it was a bad piece of rules design. This was proved in 6th edition and they have already modified the rule.

However Allies is clearly an introduction for the purpose of selling more model kits, not to improve the game as such. GW management also don't allow writers to write whatever they like for fluff.

In short, blaming any one writer is rather unfair.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Oh, you mean the "old guard" like Andy Chambers, Pete Haines, Phil Kelly, or Alessio Cavatore?

Good riddance to the old guard if that's the case.

Matt Ward had been there 12 years, from straight out of school or university. He wasn't exactly young guard.

 Jayden63 wrote:
I started to dislike Ward books with Blood Angles. He did three things that never should have happened and have changed the face of 40K forever and IMO, not in a positive way. Bubble Effects, MC stats on infantry sized models, and lack of deciding choice. Every unit could take every transport, If you wanted a model on the table, regardless of what was already taken, you could fit it in somewhere else.

Next was GK and all hell broke loose... So many special rules ontop of special rules that even with WYSIWYG you still never new exactly what a GK unit could do unless you yourself played the army. The more insane fluff has been covered by others.

And Lastly Necrons. I don't know how far he was responsible for the change in Necrons, but never has an army done a 180 in fluff like these guys. Add it the continuation of a lot of the problems that both GK and BA introduced and its understandable why the Necron codex can be so vehemently disliked both on and off the table top.

But to his credit and maybe GWs master plan, his books sold whole armies, not just the odd unit. Lots of plastic went out the door because of his OTT rule sets.

Of course his rule sets never broke the game so hard compared to Eldar, Chaos Daemons, and Tau, and his units were overall good, rather then some gimmicky unit built to break a rule in two.

It was hard, but Ward's dexs were usually hard because oddly enough they seemed to have been built an edition early for the next set (GK and Necrons), not to mention the better internal balance.

Also Necrons had horrible fluff beforehand, people were attached to the Mary Sue'tan which included a character starting to be shoehorned in behind every major event (Deciever), Nightbringer, who brought the "Fear of Death" and the grim reaper visage to every race (Despite not even humanity sharing that visage alone!). Necrons were bad metal tyranids with a focus on their masters starting to far overtake them to the point that the only interesting thing in the dex at the time was horribly mary sueish

Matt Ward had been there 12 years, from straight out of school or university. He wasn't exactly young guard.

He's not even close to old guard either, considering that by the time he started writing codex's was in 5th edition, the others that were mentioned have been there from 2nd/3rd edition +

 skrulnik wrote:
It was his leadership that gave us the VDR and TAR, as well as the Witchhunters, Daemonhunters, and the campaign Codices (Armageddon, Eye of Terror). I have always been disappointed that they weren't able to get the Deathwatch/XenosHunters Codex out before GW forced them to put out 4th edition.

Me too. I'd've loved to have seen his take on the Alien Hunters. It would have been amazing. Useless as an army, but amazing as a simple work of background and imagery. You're also right about his leadership - his charisma and headstrong attitude made him one of the best driving forces behind 40K. He wasn't as good at rules as some of his peers, but GW is poorer in his absence.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Of course his rule sets never broke the game so hard compared to Eldar, Chaos Daemons, and Tau, and his units were overall good, rather then some gimmicky unit built to break a rule in two.

A lot of us don't care (as much) about the rules, and do care (a lot) about the fluff. Ward was the anti-fluff. His stuff was terrible. Kelly may not know what internal balance is and Cruddace might have ruined two 'Nid Codices in a row, but none of them wrote the kind of crap that we got with the GK Codex.

A lot of us don't care (as much) about the rules, and do care (a lot) about the fluff. Ward was the anti-fluff. His stuff was terrible. Kelly may not know what internal balance is and Cruddace might have ruined two 'Nid Codices in a row, but none of them wrote the kind of crap that we got with the GK Codex.

Kelly is the one writing out Chaos Undivided for Chaos currently, having wrote out basically most if not all instances of Undivided chaos, but seems to be actively saying that Chaos has to be forced into a side, that there's no undivided daemons in the warp, and that there's nothing ELSE in the warp either, possibly removing all instances of enslavers and all the other interesting Creatures and making it a pure daemon zone.

Yeah Wards fluff might be terrible, but so what exactly when the crunch being written is one of the things currently forcing people out of the game due to horrendous balance? While people hated GK, they still let them play on the table in most cases, as it is people cringe seeing Eldar pop out, not to mention TO's being forced to actively alter the rules due to some horrific things like 2++ daemons, seerstars, and the powerful things that in most cases broke the meta so hard they became it.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Vermis wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
It happened, 5th Ed BA codex, and was referenced again in the Necron book IIRC

I demand excerpts.

But gimme some time to brace myself.

Full excepts of the incident in question.

BA codex wrote:
Commander Dante and the 3rd company battle against the Necron legions of the Silent King amid the dusty wastes of Gehenna. For three weeks, neither side can seize the upper hand, with Dante's tactical brilliance stretched to its limits in countering the time-space manipulations of the Silent King. The stalemate is broken when a Tyranid splinter fleet enters orbit, forcing the two armies to break off hostilities and fight the common foe. The impromptu alliance proves to the the Tyranid's undoing. Following the final battle at Devil's Crag, Dante and the Silent King go their separate ways, both forces now too battleworn to guarantee victory over the other, and, at least for the Blood Angels, the idea of turning on those they had so recently fought alongside a rather distasteful one.

Necron codex wrote:
The Silent King reluctantly joins forces with the Blood Angels to defeat a Tyranid splinter fleet.

That's it. The "Bro-fisting" was just people ranting about the very idea, and blowing the whole thing out of proportion. Because it is witty to do things like that regarding GW fluff, or give things "funny" pejorative names like Failcast or Finecost or Space Chipmunk.

Yeah sure, because genocidal soulless zombie-automatons(which is what Necrons were at the time) who can endlessly reincarnate and self-repair would totally just walk away from a battle because they were feeling a bit tired, and it makes complete sense that an army of genetically-enhanced posthuman killing machines brainwashed since puberty to hate and despise all nonhuman forms of life would find it "distasteful" to kill nonhuman lifeforms because they had to momentarily stop fighting them to deal with a different group of aliens.

Sorry, no. A lot of the flak GW gets is overblown, but the Battle of Brofist is one case in which every pisstake, barb, jibe, pun, and drip of sarcasm is richly deserved.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Vermis wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
It happened, 5th Ed BA codex, and was referenced again in the Necron book IIRC

I demand excerpts.

But gimme some time to brace myself.

Full excepts of the incident in question.

BA codex wrote:
Commander Dante and the 3rd company battle against the Necron legions of the Silent King amid the dusty wastes of Gehenna. For three weeks, neither side can seize the upper hand, with Dante's tactical brilliance stretched to its limits in countering the time-space manipulations of the Silent King. The stalemate is broken when a Tyranid splinter fleet enters orbit, forcing the two armies to break off hostilities and fight the common foe. The impromptu alliance proves to the the Tyranid's undoing. Following the final battle at Devil's Crag, Dante and the Silent King go their separate ways, both forces now too battleworn to guarantee victory over the other, and, at least for the Blood Angels, the idea of turning on those they had so recently fought alongside a rather distasteful one.

Necron codex wrote:
The Silent King reluctantly joins forces with the Blood Angels to defeat a Tyranid splinter fleet.

That's it. The "Bro-fisting" was just people ranting about the very idea, and blowing the whole thing out of proportion. Because it is witty to do things like that regarding GW fluff, or give things "funny" pejorative names like Failcast or Finecost or Space Chipmunk.

Yeah sure, because genocidal soulless zombie-automatons(which is what Necrons were at the time) who can endlessly reincarnate and self-repair would totally just walk away from a battle because they were feeling a bit tired, and it makes complete sense that an army of genetically-enhanced posthuman killing machines brainwashed since puberty to hate and despise all nonhuman forms of life would find it "distasteful" to kill nonhuman lifeforms because they had to momentarily stop fighting them to deal with a different group of aliens.

Sorry, no. A lot of the flak GW gets is overblown, but the Battle of Brofist is one case in which every pisstake, barb, jibe, pun, and drip of sarcasm is richly deserved.

You mean the same group of despise all nonhuman despite the fact that they regularly ally with Eldar, allow xenos to live if their useful, and generally depends on chapter in question? Sure the Necrons was out of left field but blood angels are usually more "Noble"

fluff and rules are both important.
One thing to consider about fluff is that fluff is important to more then JUST the table top 40k game, but the entire franchise. The Novels, the RPGs the computer games etc.

so yeah, some people may justly so see fluff as more important. if someone's main concern with 40k is the dark ehresy game they run every sunday night, fluff changes are definatly the top of their importance list

I always thought that the Draigo/heart inscribing wasn't meant to be taken literally, but in a kind of psuedo religious/ancient historical text kind of way. "And lo, Draigo did bestride the warp, and lo he struck down the evil one Mortarion, and struck his own name upon the heart of the demonic foe".

It's kind of like Marneus Calgar holding back an ork horde on his own for a 'night and a day', or whatever it was, it has a mythical sound to it.

Obviously if you imagine someone actually doing these things (strutting around in a substance that is utterly inimical to life, and killing something that has no physical representation/form in it) then yes it sounds like nonsense. Perhaps they could have done a bit more to reinforce it as something that was written thousands of years after the event took place (ancient parchment look to small blocks of story for instance), and it would have had a better reaction.

Mind you, it all pales compared to the conceptualisation behind 'Unbound', so perhaps he thought GW have now gone too far and left of his own accord!

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
What I would really like to see is Matt Ward leaving GW in a cloud of shame... then going someplace else and doing really, really well!

What will he do? Move into writing?
I thought his writing was terrible, not just because of the subject. He's lucky he worked for a company with such low standards as GW, where he could freely spam "alas" every few lines, or "trapped behind their own defenses" or trailing away with mysterious ellipsis.....

Chad Warden wrote:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
What I would really like to see is Matt Ward leaving GW in a cloud of shame... then going someplace else and doing really, really well!

What will he do? Move into writing?
I thought his writing was terrible, not just because of the subject. He's lucky he worked for a company with such low standards as GW, where he could freely spam "alas" every few lines, or "trapped behind their own defenses" or trailing away with mysterious ellipsis.....

I think games designer is probably more his thing. But then again Allessio usually also does the background writing for the rules he develops freelance, and Jake Thornton does too, so whether Ward can be just a 'games designer' is debatable, they seem to be linked to the background fluff in the industry.

Of course, Merritt is the custodian of all fluff at GW, so it isnt like ward was throwing out brofists and Draigo on his own, Ward may be able to adapt to a slightly more refined writing style and prosper outside of the GW studio, which I have to think given the cuts and pressure of release schedules must be quite a toxic place to go to work these days.

His blog makes him seem a lot more reasonable. I can't say I'm a fan of his GW work but I'm warming to him and starting to believe he's just been hamstrung like everyone else who worked there.

It seems he's working on a novel, so I guess we'll be able to see from that what he's like without Merrit hovering over him.

My bigger concern is the staff GW is shedding now; we're almost through all of the staff I've heard of. I'm assuming they are dropping the design staff with the higher salaries for the biggest savings, but there's only so many more they can get rid of.

Herzlos wrote:
His blog makes him seem a lot more reasonable. I can't say I'm a fan of his GW work but I'm warming to him and starting to believe he's just been hamstrung like everyone else who worked there.

It seems he's working on a novel, so I guess we'll be able to see from that what he's like without Merrit hovering over him.

My bigger concern is the staff GW is shedding now; we're almost through all of the staff I've heard of. I'm assuming they are dropping the design staff with the higher salaries for the biggest savings, but there's only so many more they can get rid of.

May, which when he seemingly left, was also the time James Hewitt went from Mantic to GW. Now, I like James, very likable guy, and he had some input into Dreadball and Deadzone, which are games I think are very well crafted, but he hadnt been a full game designer or writer before, so hes new to the game regardless, if he's Wards replacement the obvious connotation is cost cutting of the wage bill, I hope James does well there, I really do. I'm not sure the overall picture being painted for GW is a very healthy one.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

Agree with everything except for the "MC stats on infantry character"

Mephiston always had beastly stats as far back as the 3e codex. (If someone could find the 2e Angels of Death codex, I'm sure he has nasty stats there too).

Yes, but Ward upped the stats. If you compare Mephiston's stats between 4th edition WD codex, and 5th edition codex, Ward basically gave +1 to every Mephiston's stat. And it's not that Meph is op (he kinda was in the 5th, not so much in 6th), it's that such a huge stats simply make no sense anymore.

Ward would sometimes write good rules and good fluff, but he never understood the concept 'less is more'. Blood Angels codex is the prime example: it actually totally killed my interest in starting a BA army. See, in the old books, BA was formerly a glorious chapter, which had hit hard times, trying to live up to their old reputation with continuously fading resources and thinning ranks of sane, capable Marines, and they were sometimes viewed with suspicion by other Imperials. This was a great theme and backstory for the chapter. But Ward wrote them as the baddest badasses of all the Badassdom. They had everything: special new flyer (which at the time was exclusive to them), so many Land Raiders they could literally throw them away, a golden flying Space Jesus, mini-sized Elder Daemon, a Dreadnought which could kill infinite amount of enemies, special weapons, equipment and spells all of which were Blood-something, and huge big villains which existed only that the Space Jesus could kill them left and right and show who's the boss. It was all just so juvenile. It read like a raging fanboy had written it in his spare time. Grey Knights codex almost felt like toned down after all that (although that too had stupid stuff).

Backfire wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

Agree with everything except for the "MC stats on infantry character"

Mephiston always had beastly stats as far back as the 3e codex. (If someone could find the 2e Angels of Death codex, I'm sure he has nasty stats there too).

Yes, but Ward upped the stats. If you compare Mephiston's stats between 4th edition WD codex, and 5th edition codex, Ward basically gave +1 to every Mephiston's stat. And it's not that Meph is op (he kinda was in the 5th, not so much in 6th), it's that such a huge stats simply make no sense anymore.

Mephiston has always had the same stats as a WHFB Vampire Lord. It's a little on the nose hint. For example in 2nd ed. he was S7 T6, just like a 5th ed. WHFB Vampire Lord.

 Grimtuff wrote:

Backfire wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

Agree with everything except for the "MC stats on infantry character"

Mephiston always had beastly stats as far back as the 3e codex. (If someone could find the 2e Angels of Death codex, I'm sure he has nasty stats there too).

Yes, but Ward upped the stats. If you compare Mephiston's stats between 4th edition WD codex, and 5th edition codex, Ward basically gave +1 to every Mephiston's stat. And it's not that Meph is op (he kinda was in the 5th, not so much in 6th), it's that such a huge stats simply make no sense anymore.

Mephiston has always had the same stats as a WHFB Vampire Lord. It's a little on the nose hint. For example in 2nd ed. he was S7 T6, just like a 5th ed. WHFB Vampire Lord.

..I never actually noticed that, that's pretty interesting!

Backfire wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

Agree with everything except for the "MC stats on infantry character"

Mephiston always had beastly stats as far back as the 3e codex. (If someone could find the 2e Angels of Death codex, I'm sure he has nasty stats there too).

Yes, but Ward upped the stats. If you compare Mephiston's stats between 4th edition WD codex, and 5th edition codex, Ward basically gave +1 to every Mephiston's stat. And it's not that Meph is op (he kinda was in the 5th, not so much in 6th), it's that such a huge stats simply make no sense anymore.

Ward would sometimes write good rules and good fluff, but he never understood the concept 'less is more'. Blood Angels codex is the prime example: it actually totally killed my interest in starting a BA army. See, in the old books, BA was formerly a glorious chapter, which had hit hard times, trying to live up to their old reputation with continuously fading resources and thinning ranks of sane, capable Marines, and they were sometimes viewed with suspicion by other Imperials. This was a great theme and backstory for the chapter. But Ward wrote them as the baddest badasses of all the Badassdom. They had everything: special new flyer (which at the time was exclusive to them), so many Land Raiders they could literally throw them away, a golden flying Space Jesus, mini-sized Elder Daemon, a Dreadnought which could kill infinite amount of enemies, special weapons, equipment and spells all of which were Blood-something, and huge big villains which existed only that the Space Jesus could kill them left and right and show who's the boss. It was all just so juvenile. It read like a raging fanboy had written it in his spare time. Grey Knights codex almost felt like toned down after all that (although that too had stupid stuff).

They didn't have a Murderwolf from planet Murdercide who murdered people with his Murderclaws in a fit of Murderlust.

Backfire wrote:

Ward would sometimes write good rules and good fluff, but he never understood the concept 'less is more'. Blood Angels codex is the prime example: it actually totally killed my interest in starting a BA army. See, in the old books, BA was formerly a glorious chapter, which had hit hard times, trying to live up to their old reputation with continuously fading resources and thinning ranks of sane, capable Marines, and they were sometimes viewed with suspicion by other Imperials. This was a great theme and backstory for the chapter. But Ward wrote them as the baddest badasses of all the Badassdom. They had everything: special new flyer (which at the time was exclusive to them), so many Land Raiders they could literally throw them away, a golden flying Space Jesus, mini-sized Elder Daemon, a Dreadnought which could kill infinite amount of enemies, special weapons, equipment and spells all of which were Blood-something, and huge big villains which existed only that the Space Jesus could kill them left and right and show who's the boss. It was all just so juvenile. It read like a raging fanboy had written it in his spare time. Grey Knights codex almost felt like toned down after all that (although that too had stupid stuff).

I completely agree. A lot of his rules and fluff just were embarrassingly fanboyish. I am sure he is a perfectly nice person, but I never liked his codices.

 Kilkrazy wrote:


They didn't have a Murderwolf from planet Murdercide who murdered people with his Murderclaws in a fit of Murderlust.

Parting gift?

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:


They didn't have a Murderwolf from planet Murdercide who murdered people with his Murderclaws in a fit of Murderlust.

Parting gift?

Fits more with Kelly- Canis Wolfborn armed with Wolfclaws riding on a Thunderwolf. Ward has a lot more originality in names: Kosarro Khan, Vulkan Hes'Tan, Kaldor Draigo, Trayzn the Infinite, Oberon, Inquisitor Valeria...

Anyway Canis means dog, not wolf, in Latin.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

Backfire wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

Agree with everything except for the "MC stats on infantry character"

Mephiston always had beastly stats as far back as the 3e codex. (If someone could find the 2e Angels of Death codex, I'm sure he has nasty stats there too).

Yes, but Ward upped the stats. If you compare Mephiston's stats between 4th edition WD codex, and 5th edition codex, Ward basically gave +1 to every Mephiston's stat. And it's not that Meph is op (he kinda was in the 5th, not so much in 6th), it's that such a huge stats simply make no sense anymore.

Mephiston has always had the same stats as a WHFB Vampire Lord. It's a little on the nose hint. For example in 2nd ed. he was S7 T6, just like a 5th ed. WHFB Vampire Lord.

..I never actually noticed that, that's pretty interesting!

Note it's not that impressive as your 'standard human necromancer' was S4 T5, with WS7. In 2nd ed at the time, a Marine Captain was S5 T5, so Mephiston was only +2S +1T on one.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
If he was pushed out, I feel sorry for him. The amount of vitriol spewed at him by people online was insane. He was a game designer, not someone who worked at Haliburton or Bain Capital. The people who called for him to be fired should be ashamed.

Don't be stupid. It's not like we were calling for his summary execution, we just wanted the job done by someone who would do it right.