Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Page 61 6th Ed BRB: Only one grenade (of any type) can be thrown by a unit per Shooting phase.

Page 180 7th Ed BRB: "Only one grenade (of any type) can be thrown by a unit per phase."

But later.... "A model can use a grenade as a melee weapon, but can only ever make one attack regardless of the number of attacks on its profile or any bonuses." A grenade being used as a melee attack is explicitly stated as being "clamped in place to maximize effect" under the "Vehicles, Gun Emplacements, and Monstrous Creatures" heading.

(emphasis mine)

So my question is, how many models in a unit can use krak grenades as melee weapons in any given Assault Phase? One, or as many as you like?

You can throw as many krak grenades as you have models(1 grenade per dude) that can fight in the assault phase if you are going against an enemy that you can use krak grenades against.

<deleted, misunderstood post>

in the assault phase you arent "throwing" the grenades so dont worry about page 180. The mention of phases only has to do with shooting/overwatch/interceptor.

As above. Thoriwing == shooting witha grenade. The assault rules make no mention of throwing grenades

Proud soldiers if the imperium do not throw away grenades in combat. Instead they attach them to the enemy and keep them there until they go off.


So basicallly you don't throw grenades in combat, in good old ork fashion you beat your opponent with them.

Gotcha.

Thanks everyone

 jasper76 wrote:
Page 61 6th Ed BRB: Only one grenade (of any type) can be thrown by a unit per Shooting phase.

Page 180 7th Ed BRB: "Only one grenade (of any type) can be thrown by a unit per phase."

But later.... "A model can use a grenade as a melee weapon, but can only ever make one attack regardless of the number of attacks on its profile or any bonuses." A grenade being used as a melee attack is explicitly stated as being "clamped in place to maximize effect" under the "Vehicles, Gun Emplacements, and Monstrous Creatures" heading.

(emphasis mine)

So my question is, how many models in a unit can use krak grenades as melee weapons in any given Assault Phase? One, or as many as you like?

If they have clarified the rule by removing the word "Shooting" then you can also use only one grenade per unit in the Assault Phase. The phrasing "clamped in place.." is just a fluff description and not part of the actual rule; to claim the rule doesn't apply because it isn't technically being thrown in a narrative setting is just arguing semantics and rules lawyering.

A lot of people will disagree with this because of the way they always played it in 6th so "it must be right", but this is no basis for an argument. The fact that they have clarified the rule so that it applies to all phases is clearly intent to rectify the misconception over the "clamped in place..." fluff.

 Tonberry7 wrote:

If they have clarified the rule by removing the word "Shooting" then you can also use only one grenade per unit in the Assault Phase. The phrasing "clamped in place.." is just a fluff description and not part of the actual rule; to claim the rule doesn't apply because it isn't technically being thrown in a narrative setting is just arguing semantics and rules lawyering.

A lot of people will disagree with this because of the way they always played it in 6th so "it must be right", but this is no basis for an argument. The fact that they have clarified the rule so that it applies to all phases is clearly intent to rectify the misconception over the "clamped in place..." fluff.

Then surely you have a rules quote that says grenades are thrown when making a CC attack with a grenade right?

 Tonberry7 wrote:
If they have clarified the rule by removing the word "Shooting" then you can also use only one grenade per unit in the Assault Phase.

It doesn't matter which phase it applies to, as the rule limiting the unit to a single grenade applies to throwing them. You don't throw grenades in the assault phase.

to claim the rule doesn't apply because it isn't technically being thrown in a narrative setting is just arguing semantics and rules lawyering.

Er, no, claiming that it isn't being thrown when it isn't being thrown is merely pointing out that it isn't being thrown.

This isn't rules lawyering. It's a very basic application of the rules as they are written.

A lot of people will disagree with this because of the way they always played it in 6th so "it must be right", but this is no basis for an argument.

I would suspect that more people will disagree with it because of what the rules say in 7th edition, frankly.

There is a difference between throwing grenades and using them in close combat.

Throwing them is a shooting attack. In close combat, they are a close combat weapon.

I think they removed "Shooting Phase" from the rule, because you can throw kak grenades as overwatch when being charged in the Assault Phase.

Also, not sure if this would come into play, but Interceptor.

(these things were mentioned in a separate General Discussion thread)

So say a blob of 50 guard move within 6"(and is not assaulting), can they only throw one krak grenade?

 Eisensapper wrote:
So say a blob of 50 guard move within 6"(and is not assaulting), can they only throw one krak grenade?

Sadly, yes. But if the did assault, it could be very, very damn scary.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 insaniak wrote:

 Tonberry7 wrote:
If they have clarified the rule by removing the word "Shooting" then you can also use only one grenade per unit in the Assault Phase.

It doesn't matter which phase it applies to, as the rule limiting the unit to a single grenade applies to throwing them. You don't throw grenades in the assault phase.

Agreed. Just as you never "throw" powerfists or chainswords in the assault phase.

 Selym wrote:

Agreed. Just as you never "throw" powerfists or chainswords in the assault phase.

But you do throw punches

Serious hat back on: as well as overwatch, couldn't a unit potentially have Puppet Master cast on it several times in the same phase?

You may get a Tac Squad to try to pop their escorted dreadnought with their Melta, but if that misses your multiple psykers aren't going to get them to hurl a barrage of grenades at it

 lindsay40k wrote:

 Selym wrote:

Agreed. Just as you never "throw" powerfists or chainswords in the assault phase.

Serious hat back on: as well as overwatch, couldn't a unit potentially have Puppet Master cast on it several times in the same phase?

Oh, hell, imagine casting succesfully that multiple times on a Wraithknight.

Sonnova bitch.

You know, my first inclination was to say you can use as many grenades as you like in the melee phase but then I re-read the rule and I think Tonbery7 is onto something...

The full rule reads:

Some grenades can be used to make shooting attacks or attacks in the Fight sub-phase, albeit to different effect. Only one grenade (of any type) can be thrown by a unit per phase.

They specifically mention both shooting and melee before saying the one per phase bit.
I'm pretty sure that means it's meant to apply to both situations.

Hm doesn't contradict the fact that grenades in CC are not thrown.

First part gives permission to use grenades in close combat and for shooting. Furthermore it states a difference in effect. Then follows further clarification: (Only one grenade per unit, per phase when thrown.)

I don't see a necessary connection (RAW I see none at all, but even RAI I don't see it) between both sentences other than the second one is following the first one.
So it comes down to the word "thrown" which isn't mentioned anywhere in connection to close combat attacks.

Unusual Grenades

Some grenades do not have a profile. Any effects that they have will be covered in their special rules. Unless specifically stated otherwise, these grenades cannot be thrown or used as a Melee weapon.

Considering this part of the rules explicitly differentiates between throwing grenades and making close combat attacks with them, how could you argue that you throw grenades in CC?