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 BlaxicanX wrote:
"You can't screw, talk to your parents or enter a relationship because these things may lead to the dark side. Utilizing a fighting style that involves bathing yourself in the hatey juices of your own self-loathing and rage is totes cool though."

To be fair, the Jedi Council gets away with things in the Universe (Through the the various canon continuities) that are often contradictory, and often times being just as worse as the enemy.

Being Hypocritical isn't a new thing, do remember that they are using slaves to fight back the battle droid forces, some of which the Jedi don't believe they can feel due to being clones.

That's essentially my point. I'm criticizing the Order's silly rules.

Rules which, ultimately led to their downfall.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
That's essentially my point. I'm criticizing the Order's silly rules.

Rules which, ultimately led to their downfall.

Multiple downfalls at that.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
That's essentially my point. I'm criticizing the Order's silly rules.

Rules which, ultimately led to their downfall.

Pride comes before the fall

About the only good thing Travis ever added to the EU were here criticism of the Jedi Order, which were some of the best ever. *begins typical rant against Karen Travis*

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:
In the recent version, he may lose a lot in the grand scheme (mainly because SW is about the good guys winning) but he wins most 1v1 fights he's in.

Does he?

I haven't seen most of the Clone Wars episodes, but the episodes I have seen shows him running away from Obi-Wan, failing to defeat Ashouka, running away from Kit Fisto and getting defeated and captured by Gungans.

edit- As far as why he sucked in the movie, basically he was created to be a badass in the cartoon, but his quad-bladed fighting style was too complicated for the movie's choreographers to design a decent dueling scene. Thus, the crap we got in Return of the Sith, along with him getting disarmed down to a more manageable two blades fairly quickly.

If I recall, most of the time he is winning and winning well until [insert plot here] turns up and he has to retreat before more Jedi/Clones arrive. Most of the time, he seems to outclass Obi-wan in one on one fights.

I think the issue is that the new animated series got that he was a good fighter, but took his military leadership ability and applied to it the Worf Effect. He was first portrayed as single handedly crushing the Jedi strategically and tactically which made him awesome, but being a TV series aimed at children, he was reduced to cartoon villain hood with plans that are unraveled in very obvious ways or by simple good guy power.

 LordofHats wrote:
I think the issue is that the new animated series got that he was a good fighter, but took his military leadership ability and applied to it the Worf Effect. He was first portrayed as single handedly crushing the Jedi strategically and tactically which made him awesome, but being a TV series aimed at children, he was reduced to cartoon villain hood with plans that are unraveled in very obvious ways or by simple good guy power.

This is exactly what I'm talking about, he just goes from cool to a generic villain who is defeated by Gungans, the same robot who held his own against 6 Jedi, including 2 masters, Barrak (I think) and Ki-Adi-Mundi. He kills 5 Jedi in just the miniseries and causes Anakin to become a Knight.

The other thing that annoys me is that most people haven't watched the animated series, even though it's pretty integral to the leading up of Episode 3.

 LoneLictor wrote:

Daemonhammer wrote:
Never really liked Grevious, i didnt understand if they made one why couldnt they make more of like him?

That was my main problem with him too.

I mean, Darth Vader is a cyborg, but he has years of training and a mastery of the force. You can't mass produce those qualities. Grievous on the other hand just had spinning arms. Plus, his stupid name, his late introduction, and the fact that he had no impact on the plot don't help much. That said, I loved his portrayal in the Revenge of the Sith novelization. I just love that book in general, if only because it defied my expectations so much. I was expecting it to just be complete garbage like the movie it was based on.

Being fair to Grievous, he was the best warrior of his race or something along those lines, so he's not exactly reproducible.

More than that, Grievous had a special psychology. He loathed the Jedi. Utterly hated them. So much so that he turned his genocidal tendencies in their direction. While a lot of people in the galaxy might want to kill all Jedi, how many of them are as capable as Grievous? He was the perfect guy for Palpatine to put in charge of his droid army. Can't have the Clone Wars ending before he's grabbed up enough power. Someone has to give the clone army and their Jedi leaders a good run for the money.

 BrotherOfBone wrote:
even though it's pretty integral to the leading up of Episode 3.

An outside source shouldn't be needed to understand/enjoy a movie.

 Ahtman wrote:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:
even though it's pretty integral to the leading up of Episode 3.

An outside source shouldn't be needed to understand/enjoy a movie.

Agreed.

 BrotherOfBone wrote:
Does anyone else find it extremely annoying that General Grevious went from the most powerful general in the entire galaxy and holds his own against 6 Jedi (circa the Clone Wars Minisieries) to a stupid, knock-off villain who essentially fails at everything he does (the most recent Clone Wars animated series)?

Not really.

When you're old enough to buy wine and have a mortgage, gak like this doesn't seem to matter.

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:
I think the issue is that the new animated series got that he was a good fighter, but took his military leadership ability and applied to it the Worf Effect. He was first portrayed as single handedly crushing the Jedi strategically and tactically which made him awesome, but being a TV series aimed at children, he was reduced to cartoon villain hood with plans that are unraveled in very obvious ways or by simple good guy power.

This is exactly what I'm talking about, he just goes from cool to a generic villain who is defeated by Gungans, the same robot who held his own against 6 Jedi, including 2 masters, Barrak (I think) and Ki-Adi-Mundi. He kills 5 Jedi in just the miniseries and causes Anakin to become a Knight.

The other thing that annoys me is that most people haven't watched the animated series, even though it's pretty integral to the leading up of Episode 3.

To be fair, none of the masters he fought was in tip top shape at the time. Their ships had crash landed (since the fight takes place in one of them), they'd basically had their armies over run by droids, and they were in a last ditch defense/survival effort. Barrak was already dead by the time the fight in the wreckage took place, mind you. So his six were:


Sha'a Gi: Barrak's padawan. First to die. Let's face it, he's not a real threat and barely a real warrior.
Tarr Seirr - Jedi Knight, not a real great threat. He's a jedi mook, essentially.
Ki-Adi Mundi - Jedi Master, confirmed badass.
Ayla Secura - Jedi Knight, confirmed badass.
Shaak Ti - Jedi Master, confirmed badass.
K'Kruhk - Jedi Knight, awesome guy, crap warrior though.

So while yes, Grievous is a badass who takes on multiple Jedi (including 2 masters) and wipes the floor with them, it doesn't really weigh on him losing to the Gungans, who have him surrounded, outnumbered far more than 5 to 1, and aren't terrified of him the way the Jedi were. And let's not forget it took Roos Tarpals willingly taking a lightsaber to the chest to pin Grievous down for a 50 to 1 beatdown.

 kronk wrote:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:
Does anyone else find it extremely annoying that General Grevious went from the most powerful general in the entire galaxy and holds his own against 6 Jedi (circa the Clone Wars Minisieries) to a stupid, knock-off villain who essentially fails at everything he does (the most recent Clone Wars animated series)?

Not really.

When you're old enough to buy wine and have a mortgage, gak like this doesn't seem to matter.

You can say that, but with 18,000 posts on a wargaming forum, I think we all know that gak like this matters as much to you as anyone else.

 LoneLictor wrote:

 kronk wrote:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:
Does anyone else find it extremely annoying that General Grevious went from the most powerful general in the entire galaxy and holds his own against 6 Jedi (circa the Clone Wars Minisieries) to a stupid, knock-off villain who essentially fails at everything he does (the most recent Clone Wars animated series)?

Not really.

When you're old enough to buy wine and have a mortgage, gak like this doesn't seem to matter.

You can say that, but with 18,000 posts on a wargaming forum, I think we all know that gak like this matters as much to you as anyone else.

Only Black Templars matter. Sons of Dorn, or GTFO!

Have to think, if he weren't Xeno scum, Grevious would probably get along pretty well with the Iron Hands

All the Star Wars crappy non movie books ad nauseum, why exactly were they rebelling against the Republic?

 Frazzled wrote:
All the Star Wars crappy non movie books ad nauseum, why exactly were they rebelling against the Republic?

I'm not even sure the EU really made it very clear. The Clone Wars TV series seemed simply hint that the typical non-evil sep thought the Republic was corrupt. The Banking Clan, Trade Federation, and Techno Union wanted to be in an unregulated economy and lended financial aid. Some works (like the one detailing Grevious' origins) suggest many thought and feared that the Jedi were taking over the Republic. In the the limited material concerning the time period between the Prequel films era and the New Sith Wars, the Supreme Chancellor and the Grand Master of the Jedi Order had been the same person for a thousand years (as in both offices were held concurrently by a single person).

Sounds like it really was a Jedi dictatorship.

Like Horus, Darth Maul was Da Good Guy!

 Frazzled wrote:
Sounds like it really was a Jedi dictatorship.

Like Horus, Darth Maul was Da Good Guy!

Hey man. You're either on the light side, or you're on the wrong side



^Either the most tongue in cheek thing ever written, or no one sat and thought for more than a few seconds after the lines were read.