Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

ClockworkZion wrote:I think the problem is more that GW keeps making VERY small changes to how Sisters are chosen. Every codex tweaks it just a little and the changes are completely unneeded. They just need to pick one and stick with it. At this rate I half expect the next codex to say they're left as infants on the steps of Ecclesiarchal churches and screened/raised and then chosen from there and sent off for training.

How so? I've never known it to be different.

"The faith of the Adepta Sororitas is unswerving, they are raised from birth to believe the Emperor is the only hope for humanity."
-- WD #211, 1997, before their very first codex

 Lynata wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:I think the problem is more that GW keeps making VERY small changes to how Sisters are chosen. Every codex tweaks it just a little and the changes are completely unneeded. They just need to pick one and stick with it. At this rate I half expect the next codex to say they're left as infants on the steps of Ecclesiarchal churches and screened/raised and then chosen from there and sent off for training.

How so? I've never known it to be different.

"The faith of the Adepta Sororitas is unswerving, they are raised from birth to believe the Emperor is the only hope for humanity."
-- WD #211, 1997, before their very first codex

Which didn't show up in 2nd, 3rd or 5th. It changes slightly from them being orphans, to orphans of Imperial Servants to orphans to those who are important to the Imprerium (it might even say Nobility, I'm a touch foggy on that at the moment)....ect. They are either not good at sticking with one complete method of choosing Sisters (like how they have for Marines), or the rules vary from Schola to Schola and they should say so and make it a non-issue.

Ehm... the origins of Space Marines has changed a couple times since RT, and is further complicated by various novels that have grown men being accepted into Chapters and transformed into Marines during the Heresy.

ClockworkZion wrote:Which didn't show up in 2nd, 3rd or 5th. It changes slightly from them being orphans, to orphans of Imperial Servants to orphans to those who are important to the Imprerium (it might even say Nobility, I'm a touch foggy on that at the moment)....ect. They are either not good at sticking with one complete method of choosing Sisters (like how they have for Marines), or the rules vary from Schola to Schola and they should say so and make it a non-issue.

None of the things you listed are contradictions, though. Nobody would argue that Space Marines suddenly stopped recruiting aspirants in their teens, or that the Imperial Guard isn't allowed its own fliers, just because GW forgets to mention it in-between two editions.

You can be an orphan of an Imperial servant, who was important to the Imperium, and still be raised from infancy.
Hitting two of the above conditions gets you into the Schola. To become a Sister, you have to score on all three.

And whilst the 2E Codex did not mention the "from infancy" bit in its general description it is, however, included for one of the special characters (Helena the Virtuous). Furthermore, the designer notes for the 3E Codex had Andy Hoare proclaim that the team went through a lot of work to maintain a consistent image of the Sisterhood, reaffirming any fluff the studio published on them so far, even specifically up to the 1st Edition Rogue Trader bits about them hunting down the Rainbow Warriors Chapter.

Also:
"The Sisters of Battle, also known as the Adepta Sororitas, are an elite Sisterhood of warriors raised from infancy to adore the Emperor of Mankind."
-- 5th Edition Codex

I really think GW has been a lot more consistent than you give them credit for, here.

 Psienesis wrote:
Ehm... the origins of Space Marines has changed a couple times since RT, and is further complicated by various novels that have grown men being accepted into Chapters and transformed into Marines during the Heresy.

I knew it changed post RT, but I wasn't aware of it changing a couple of times, or full adults getting the treatment. Guess the ability to do that got lost in the Heresy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lynata wrote:
[None of the things you listed are contradictions, though. Nobody would argue that Space Marines suddenly stopped recruiting aspirants in their teens just because GW forgets to mention it in-between two editions.

You can be an orphan of an Imperial servant, who was important to the Imperium, and still be raised from infancy.
Hitting two of the above conditions gets you into the Schola. To become a Sister, you have to score on all three.

While possible, just because we interpret it that way doesn't mean they meant it that way.

I really think GW has been a lot more consistent than you give them credit for, here.

I don't. I'll change my tune if they incorporate all three into one codex blurb but as it is, I feel they have a nasty habit of making unneeded tweaks without thinking.

ClockworkZion wrote:I knew it changed post RT, but I wasn't aware of it changing a couple of times, or full adults getting the treatment. Guess the ability to do that got lost in the Heresy.

As far the TT books are concerned, GW is ignoring a lot of what the novels say. In fact, you could say the 6E rulebook even mocked the HH novels in its own description of the Primarchs.

There is no canon, only different interpretations of the setting. Games Workshop's version of the Sisters, however, has so far been internally consistent.

ClockworkZion wrote:While possible, just because we interpret it that way doesn't mean they meant it that way.

This doesn't have to do anything with interpretation.

Just because something isn't mentioned anymore it does not mean it becomes invalid, as long as it's not contradicted. Otherwise we'd have a mess with the fluff here. Especially when it comes to the Sororitas. Do you really want to tell me we should ditch anything we know about the Sisters that isn't included in the 6E Codex? Because then we won't have much to work with.

Is it possible that you just don't like GW's version of the Sororitas, when it comes to this detail?

 Lynata wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:While possible, just because we interpret it that way doesn't mean they meant it that way.

This doesn't have to do anything with interpretation.

Just because something isn't mentioned anymore it does not mean it becomes invalid, as long as it's not contradicted. Otherwise we'd have a mess with the fluff here. Especially when it comes to the Sororitas. Do you really want to tell me we should ditch anything we know about the Sisters that isn't included in the 6E Codex? Because then we won't have much to work with.

Is it possible that you just don't like GW's version of the Sororitas, when it comes to this detail?

Choosing to incorporate old canon just because it's not directly mentioned is an interpretation. You're choosing to approach it one way, while I choose to approach each new book/edition as their own stand alone thing.

 Lynata wrote:
Thing is, I just read that paragraph, and it doesn't mention mindwipes. The only thing that could refer to it would be the "psycho-surgery" - but again, if they'd wipe their personalities and memories, it wouldn't make sense that the GKs are looking specifically for recruits whose minds are already toughened.

The reason why mind-wiping is used to describe the process of making a Grey Knight is because it is explicitly mentioned in Grey Knights by Ben Counter where Counter described it as an erasing of the majority of their memories and their personalities so it is almost like they are a whole new person. Aaron Dembski-Bowden roughly describes how this is done in The Emperor's Gift as it shows Hyperion loosing his former self and how is original identity is erased. That is right in the beginning of the book as well. These are novels from Black Library though and not a codex source which others have already described above, I just thought I would throw this in with it. Often these repressed memories become a source of tension within the stories of Grey Knights for various reasons although it is clear that they don't want you to find out about your past but if you do, it isn't something that will change what a Grey Knight is or why he does it. Mostly the plot device is used to show the humanity of the particular Grey Knight and show that he was and is still a flawed mortal despite being a Grey Knight. To me it is as Psinesis pointed out, an extreme version of real military indoctrination which I have first hand experienced. The principles are the same and I think it is there to highlight a point about who Grey Knights and really all Space Marines are, broken down men that we built to be better to protect and serve. Extremes always highlight a lesson better than mediocrity but it also uses it as a cautionary tale which is why I like the duality of it.

The SoB are quite different since they are raised and indoctrinated into their Orders.

The two forces are the two faces of the same coin to show that purity can be instilled at birth or done through actions, deeds and mental fortitude, almost like a redemption (This is highlighted well in Hyperion himself because of where he came from). Both require discipline, though. Honestly both forces are awesome and work towards a common goal in two different ways. Both are needed at different times and I think that was partially what they were trying to highlight with the Bloodtide incident but if they took it out...I am satisfied.

ClockworkZion wrote:Choosing to incorporate old canon just because it's not directly mentioned is an interpretation. You're choosing to approach it one way, while I choose to approach each new book/edition as their own stand alone thing.

I suppose that's one way to see it, though this must mean you've got very little to work with, given the few contents of what passes as the Sisters' current codex.

Either way, you are still contradicting yourself. If you really "approach each new book/edition as their own standalone thing" rather than looking at it in connection to previous material .. then why do you complain about the "from infancy" bit not being mentioned in every single book?

If you limit your perception solely to 6E, then the Sisters are trained from infancy, and that's that.
If you include earlier material, then the Sisters were also always trained from infancy.
I don't see how you could arrive at any other conclusion.

Envihon wrote:These are novels from Black Library though and not a codex source which others have already described above, I just thought I would throw this in with it.

Yeah, that'd be my beef with them. Personally, I'm fairly biased against Black Library, as its authors regularly ignore codex fluff, and vice versa. It's different writers and thus different interpretations. Each of them is equally valid, but one shouldn't just throw everything together and expect it to fit.

Of course, this makes debates such as these complicated, because in essence both "they get mindwiped" and "they don't get mindwiped" are correct, depending on where you look and how you interpret it. That's 40k for ya. A lack of proper mindwipes could explain why GW thinks they need additional protection, so perhaps it only sounds weird if you add in those novels to your interpretation. That'd be the potential error here - but I will say that, technically, the codex material could easily be interpreted as including mindwipes as well, as the aforementioned "mental toughness" could also be interpreted in different ways.

I like the "two sides of the same coin" analogy, though. As far as my interpretation goes, that really sums it up. And in case of the Blood Tide, the blood ritual conducted by the GKs is basically the Knights' way to "cheat" and (indirectly) gain the cumulative bonus of both sides of that coin, thus increasing their resilience.
This, too, could be interpreted in multiple ways. For example, the Sisters' blood might - even (or perhaps especially!) after their deaths - possess a certain "signature" based on the purity and innocence of their souls that works like a low-level repellent against the daemonic. Or, possibly more grimdark, the actual nature of the blood doesn't matter squat, but the Grey Knights themselves need to believe that it's special, because said belief reinforces the armour of their souls. This is kind of how it works, after all; resistance against psychic powers depends a lot on willpower, and even lies can increase it (that is how propaganda works after all). The Sisters and their Acts of Faith are a prime example of this, and the GKs are psykers on top of it!

"From Infancy" just means "from some time before they were ten years old", so I don't see the contradiction.

Anyway, I actually liked the Blood Tide fluff. It showed Sisters as being innately incorruptible and brave, standing firm and holding the line against the khorne plague, and then only dying because the Grey Knights needed their blood to make sure that they were protected.

Because it says repeatedly in the GK fluff that they are incorruptible because of the rituals and magic they use to protect themselves.

Sisterhood incorruptibility is innate. GK incorruptibility is engineered. The Blood Tide just shows this explicitly, so GK players don't like it because it shows that they're not perfect paragons or light and good or some crap like that which they're not supposed to be anyway.

Sisters players, I never understood why they don't like it. Because it makes it seem like they had to be rescued or something? I dunno.

 Lynata wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:Choosing to incorporate old canon just because it's not directly mentioned is an interpretation. You're choosing to approach it one way, while I choose to approach each new book/edition as their own stand alone thing.

I suppose that's one way to see it, though this must mean you've got very little to work with, given the few contents of what passes as the Sisters' current codex.

Either way, you are still contradicting yourself. If you really "approach each new book/edition as their own standalone thing" rather than looking at it in connection to previous material .. then why do you complain about the "from infancy" bit not being mentioned in every single book?

If you limit your perception solely to 6E, then the Sisters are trained from infancy, and that's that.
If you include earlier material, then the Sisters were also always trained from infancy.
I don't see how you could arrive at any other conclusion.

I complain because the way Sisters are chosen keeps changing just enough to throw me off. I'm not against them being raised from infants, I'm against it constantly getting tweaked when it doesn't need to be. Plus it just makes things harder to keep up on the lore when they keep tweaking things that should be the standard, and the core of their lore.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
"From Infancy" just means "from some time before they were ten years old", so I don't see the contradiction.

I've never heard such a definition honestly.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Anyway, I actually liked the Blood Tide fluff. It showed Sisters as being innately incorruptible and brave, standing firm and holding the line against the khorne plague, and then only dying because the Grey Knights needed their blood to make sure that they were protected.

Because it says repeatedly in the GK fluff that they are incorruptible because of the rituals and magic they use to protect themselves.

Sisterhood incorruptibility is innate. GK incorruptibility is engineered. The Blood Tide just shows this explicitly, so GK players don't like it because it shows that they're not perfect paragons or light and good or some crap like that which they're not supposed to be anyway.

Sisters players, I never understood why they don't like it. Because it makes it seem like they had to be rescued or something? I dunno.

I liked the concept (it could even make a pretty good Black Library Novel), but the execution (no pun intended) was lacking. I felt that some careful rewording would have made it work a lot better, but that's just me.

 Lotet wrote:

 thenoobbomb wrote:

 Lotet wrote:

 thenoobbomb wrote:

 n0t_u wrote:
Wouldn't the GKs own blood inside them work in a way?

Yes, but that'd weaken them a bit because they use their own blood, draining their own body of it.

Then they should have just cut some blood out, eaten their daily nutrients and let their Space marine physiology top off their blood again.

Seeing as they might've needed litres of blood, that'd make it a tad harder.

A few litres for each Knight? Couldn't they just pour 100-200ml into a paint tray and dab it onto their brothers?

Brother Picasso.

Howd this get turned into another Sisters thread?

ClockworkZion wrote:I complain because the way Sisters are chosen keeps changing just enough to throw me off. I'm not against them being raised from infants, I'm against it constantly getting tweaked when it doesn't need to be. Plus it just makes things harder to keep up on the lore when they keep tweaking things that should be the standard, and the core of their lore.

But it didn't change... ><
Just because they're not copypasting 100% of the previous material into the next edition doesn't mean anything has changed. If you look at the new codex in isolation, it shouldn't matter what's been said before. If you don't, then this has been in their fluff before their first codex.

Simple omissions are not "tweaks". They would allow someone who only looks at the current edition to ignore what's been said before (example: the SoB's role for the Ordo Hereticus) ... but you can hardly fault GW just because they don't follow an individual reader's opinion that old fluff is invalid. That's like saying GW would be wrong not to write their SoB as incapable idiots just because Black Library authors regularly portray them so. GW has their own way of dealing with the fluff. You don't have to subscribe to it, of course, but you can't say GW is flip-flopping around just because they follow and propagate a different interpretation.
tl;dr: What you consider a change, I merely regard as old fluff being reaffirmed. Same as with the old Force Disposition Charts that were printed in the 6E core rulebook, where you can see that there's apparently a lot more Space Marines than Sisters around.

GW's only fault is that a lot of the Sisters' fluff is "hidden" in various obscure sources such as old issues of White Dwarf, making it ridiculously hard to find. So I can see how something that has actually been consistent for decades might appear like a change simply because the reader wasn't aware of the older sources... in this case WD #211. Perhaps it is that what you've experienced? This I could understand, and agree on!
How many SoB fans know, for example, at which age the Sisters get chosen and "graduate" from the Schola, and what happens to them next? This is said nowhere except than in a character background of GW's Inquisitor game, and their Infamy&Villainy article about Ephrael Stern.

ClockworkZion wrote:

Furyou Miko wrote:"From Infancy" just means "from some time before they were ten years old", so I don't see the contradiction.

I've never heard such a definition honestly.

Huh ... me neither.
I mean, doesn't "infancy" come from "infant"?
Or did you perhaps mistake years for months? Then it would fit.

ClockworkZion wrote:I liked the concept (it could even make a pretty good Black Library Novel), but the execution (no pun intended) was lacking. I felt that some careful rewording would have made it work a lot better, but that's just me.

Hmmh, in my opinion it's all about how you interpret it - the event has been described so vaguely that it leaves a lot for one's own "headcanon" to fill the blanks, which I think can be a good thing.
But I'm curious, how would you have worded it?

WrentheFaceless wrote:Howd this get turned into another Sisters thread?

Blood Tide. Just read the posts.

Yea but they got rid of the whole "bathing in sisters blood" thing

And had another incident where Sisters not only didnt get killed for their blood, they sacrificed themselves to let Draigo get to where he needed to go.

As an aside they do mention that potential Sister are chosen from the regular stock of Schola students in the new Militarum Tempestus Codex.

That aside, does Draigo still super mary sue his way across the warp? Is Mordrak even mentioned?

 generalchaos34 wrote:
As an aside they do mention that potential Sister are chosen from the regular stock of Schola students in the new Militarum Tempestus Codex.

That aside, does Draigo still super mary sue his way across the warp? Is Mordrak even mentioned?

THey cut out what Draigo was doing in the warp, Mordrak is mentioned a couple of times.

 generalchaos34 wrote:
As an aside they do mention that potential Sister are chosen from the regular stock of Schola students in the new Militarum Tempestus Codex.

That aside, does Draigo still super mary sue his way across the warp? Is Mordrak even mentioned?

People really need to get around to listening to Mortarion's Heart where Black Library does a great job in humanizing Draigo and taking away the Mary-sue super powers of his. Also, quick tid-bit, Draigo is the student of Mordrak so he owes his awesomeness from being trained by Mordrak himself, again that is in the aforementioned audio drama.

But I wonder if these fluff changes have anything to do with Matt Ward leaving....

 Lynata wrote:
GW's only fault is that a lot of the Sisters' fluff is "hidden" in various obscure sources such as old issues of White Dwarf, making it ridiculously hard to find. So I can see how something that has actually been consistent for decades might appear like a change simply because the reader wasn't aware of the older sources... in this case WD #211. Perhaps it is that what you've experienced? This I could understand, and agree on!

That's actually why I treat things as stand alones, because otherwise you'd need a deep knowledge of something that came before. And I admittedly haven't seen every single Sisters document out there (the stuff they had between 2nd and 3rd for instance, and some of the WDs because they're very hard to find and are rarely scanned online), and even having read everything I have it's hard to keep on top of it all which is why I prefer the standalone approach.

The issue is that when you're unaware of the changes from one thing to the next (like I missed the infant line addition from 3rd to 5th) it can throw you off even if you keep on top of it all. I'd rather they continue to add to the events instead of tweaking things that already exist every edition. Give us more new stuff, not re-tellings of old stuff. If it works (and 95%+ does) than don't mess with it and instead weave in new things for us to read about and enjoy.

 Lynata wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:I liked the concept (it could even make a pretty good Black Library Novel), but the execution (no pun intended) was lacking. I felt that some careful rewording would have made it work a lot better, but that's just me.

Hmmh, in my opinion it's all about how you interpret it - the event has been described so vaguely that it leaves a lot for one's own "headcanon" to fill the blanks, which I think can be a good thing.
But I'm curious, how would you have worded it?

I'd gone with making it longer for one, the original section while enough to convey key points didn't convey the reasoning behind the actions. Tossing in a little detail about the Grey Knights needing extra protection against the daemonic torrent of blood (and possibly nanomachines if it's the same one as before) and the sigils actively repelling it from them, and perhaps framing it like an act of mercy to provide the Sisters, who are likely at the end of their munitions and any supplies they have, to kill them, and then honor them by using their blood to form the sigils so that they may still serve on through death.

Basically it's one of those bits I think would have been better served as a page or two at least and done as a narrative through the point of view of one the Grey Knights who was there.

'Infants' at school was years one to three, which equates to ages four to seven (sorry, seven, not ten). So that's where I get that definition.

It became a Sisters thread because someone mentioned the Bloodtide, which draws us like moths to a rotting corpse. >>

 Furyou Miko wrote:
'Infants' at school was years one to three, which equates to ages four to seven (sorry, seven, not ten). So that's where I get that definition.

It became a Sisters thread because someone mentioned the Bloodtide, which draws us like moths to a rotting corpse. >>

The Bloodtide incident: The closest the SoB will ever get to having an actual printed codex and that is their main reason for hijacking GK threads Sorry, couldn't help myself.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
It became a Sisters thread because someone mentioned the Bloodtide, which draws us like moths to a rotting corpse. >>

I've never heard of moths eating corpses but flies on the other hand....

But that'd be too Nurglish I guess.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Envihon wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
'Infants' at school was years one to three, which equates to ages four to seven (sorry, seven, not ten). So that's where I get that definition.

It became a Sisters thread because someone mentioned the Bloodtide, which draws us like moths to a rotting corpse. >>

The Bloodtide incident: The closest the SoB will ever get to having an actual printed codex and that is their main reason for hijacking GK threads Sorry, couldn't help myself.

You'll be forgiven if you chant 100 Ave Emperors while flogging yourself with the 2nd edition Codex: Sisters of Battle.

More seriously, it attracts us since it applies to our army, just like discussing the first Armageddon War could attract Daemon, Chaos, Grey Knight, IG and Space Wolf players.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
It became a Sisters thread because someone mentioned the Bloodtide, which draws us like moths to a rotting corpse. >>

I've never heard of moths eating corpses but flies on the other hand....

But that'd be too Nurglish I guess.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Envihon wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
'Infants' at school was years one to three, which equates to ages four to seven (sorry, seven, not ten). So that's where I get that definition.

It became a Sisters thread because someone mentioned the Bloodtide, which draws us like moths to a rotting corpse. >>

The Bloodtide incident: The closest the SoB will ever get to having an actual printed codex and that is their main reason for hijacking GK threads Sorry, couldn't help myself.

You'll be forgiven if you chant 100 Ave Emperors while flogging yourself with the 2nd edition Codex: Sisters of Battle.

More seriously, it attracts us since it applies to our army, just like discussing the first Armageddon War could attract Daemon, Chaos, Grey Knight, IG and Space Wolf players.

Sorry that I forgot the again part of that jab.

But unless they put in the Bloodtide incident somewhere else, it seems they have ret-conned it like they did with Draigo. GK players don't have to decide whether it was totally out of character for the Grey Knights to slaughter SoB to make themselves more resistant to Chaos or whether it was a good piece of grim dark that showed that the GK will and can do anything to stop Chaos as much as the SoB players don't have to hear about the Sisters being innocently slaughtered by dudes in shiny power armor. Also it takes bragging rights away from the SoB players that their army is "more pure" than the GK because the GK still had to slaughter Sisters to become more pure than they already were.

GW heard us gripe about how bad a piece of fluff it was, saw the countless arguments about it and boom it is gone. Now they are just as pure as each other just in different ways.

 Envihon wrote:
Sorry that I forgot the again part of that jab.

No biggie, I was just ribbing you a bit.

 Envihon wrote:
But unless they put in the Bloodtide incident somewhere else, it seems they have ret-conned it like they did with Draigo. GK players don't have to decide whether it was totally out of character for the Grey Knights to slaughter SoB to make themselves more resistant to Chaos or whether it was a good piece of grim dark that showed that the GK will and can do anything to stop Chaos as much as the SoB players don't have to hear about the Sisters being innocently slaughtered by dudes in shiny power armor. Also it takes bragging rights away from the SoB players that their army is "more pure" than the GK because the GK still had to slaughter Sisters to become more pure than they already were.

GW heard us gripe about how bad a piece of fluff it was, saw the countless arguments about it and boom it is gone. Now they are just as pure as each other just in different ways.

All holds true as long as you approach each codex as a stand alone, with the most current being the "correct" version of things, but not everyone does, as outlined in this thread.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Envihon wrote:
Sorry that I forgot the again part of that jab.

No biggie, I was just ribbing you a bit.

 Envihon wrote:
But unless they put in the Bloodtide incident somewhere else, it seems they have ret-conned it like they did with Draigo. GK players don't have to decide whether it was totally out of character for the Grey Knights to slaughter SoB to make themselves more resistant to Chaos or whether it was a good piece of grim dark that showed that the GK will and can do anything to stop Chaos as much as the SoB players don't have to hear about the Sisters being innocently slaughtered by dudes in shiny power armor. Also it takes bragging rights away from the SoB players that their army is "more pure" than the GK because the GK still had to slaughter Sisters to become more pure than they already were.

GW heard us gripe about how bad a piece of fluff it was, saw the countless arguments about it and boom it is gone. Now they are just as pure as each other just in different ways.

All holds true as long as you approach each codex as a stand alone, with the most current being the "correct" version of things, but not everyone does, as outlined in this thread.

I view it in the same way I view comic book continuity with everything that goes into the Warhammer 40k universe with codices, Black Library and Forge World all throwing their 2 cents in to mesh everything together, I view the most up to date ones as the ruling on the fluff and usually Black Library as clarifying or fleshing out that fluff with the most modern codices ruling on the current fluff. GW has shown that this property if quite fluid. Unfortunately, it makes bad fluff like the Bloodtide incident and Mary Sue Draigo go away but it also makes my favorite parts like the Necrons being the force behind the Pariah gene go away too.

... the removal of the specifics of the Bloodtide incident doesn't remove the fact that the Sisters *are* more-pure than the GK. =p

 Psienesis wrote:
... the removal of the specifics of the Bloodtide incident doesn't remove the fact that the Sisters *are* more-pure than the GK. =p

Really? Seems to be 1-0 in GK's favor, no GKs have fallen to chaos like a certain Miriael Sabathiel, along with some Battle-Sisters

Sabathiel is a non-studio character. She's as "canon" as the corrupted GK hanging around in my DH game.

And dying to Chaos is not falling to Chaos. GK die to Chaos all the time, but they don't give up their souls in doing so. Neither do Sisters... and Sisters don't need sorcery to do it.

 Psienesis wrote:
Sabathiel is a non-studio character. She's as "canon" as the corrupted GK hanging around in my DH game.

And dying to Chaos is not falling to Chaos. GK die to Chaos all the time, but they don't give up their souls in doing so. Neither do Sisters... and Sisters don't need sorcery to do it.

And to point out, GK do require their sigils and armors for it.

Thus the blood of the martyr's being used to adorn them to protect them.

Okay, in the technical sense, the Sisters are more pure because they don't need be psychics to accomplish what they do but the GK are more diplomatic in the fact that they will work with xenos to defeat Chaos while the SoB are just "BURN THEM ALL!" kind of people. I still count that as a win since the GK have some plasticity in their thought process and realize that sometimes making non-human friends means less Chaos in the galaxy.