What Can GW Do To Improve Their Public Image?

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**Murenius**

WayneTheGame wrote:

I think they could. The stores are really only a big thing in the UK; they are too scattered in the US and I would assume Canada, Europe and Australia. Most games in the US (and I would assume elsewhere) take place in independent game stores, not in a GW store because often there are established independent game stores. In my state (Florida) for example I think there's only 1 GW store in the entire state, but dozens of independent stores all over in most metro areas. So I think they're keeping the stores out of this delusional idea that the GW store is the "hub" of gameplay all over the world, when it really isn't.

In Germany there are quite some official stores, at least one in every major city. However, I avoid those stores, even more in the last years. In the past those stores allowed some discussions with fellow hobbyists and I liked picking up some impulse buy, e.g. some character model I still missed. But at least in those stores I was in they rarely have what I want. The standard answer is "You can order it and have it delivered here". Usually I reply with "If I wanted to do that I could order from my couch and have it delivered to my door without having to drive here again." Also the clerks are usually not that deep into the hobby. Maybe you can sell Chaos Havocs to a 12 years old as a viable AA option, but I feel like they are either stupid or trying to cheat me. These days I rather order, either with Wayland or with GW's store for those models I can't get elsewhere.

**Crimson Heretic**

Toofast wrote:
A month worth of gas? You must work across the street and never go anywhere else. I spend $100 a week on gas and barely go anywhere but work. I drive a 4 cylinder in Alabama where gas is $2.15 a gallon. Yes the prices are high but I think 90% of working Americans with a car spend far more than 40k vehicle price per month on gas.

I watched the short documentary about Lego today and I couldn't believe all the parallels. What did Lego do to turn things around?
- Get back to their core of making stuff that people want
- Do MARKET RESEARCH to find out what people want, because when you tell the market what it wants and lose 10-20% of your revenue from one year to the next, obviously the market isn't listening to you and it's time for you to listen to the market!
- Know your demographic. Lego thought that girls didn't like building things. Then MARKET RESEARCH showed them girls would build lego sets if lego did a better job of offering products that appealed to them.
- Fill gaps in their product based on MARKET RESEARCH. If you have humvees, tanks and battleships, and the military lego collectors want A-10s and F-22s, you make some freaking military plane kits to round out the product line.
- Engage with customers through social media.
- Host lego events where people can showcase their creativity by making things with Legos that aren't sold as kits. When someone really impresses them, offer that guy a job.

What has GW done?
- Proudly exclaim to their shareholders and customers that market research is otiose in a niche market.
- State their demographic without any market research to actually back up what they think their demographic is.
- Throw a bunch of ideas out there and see what sticks. You could've asked 1000 long time players, I doubt a single one would list close combat dreads and Logan Clause on a stupid sleigh pulled by wolves as holes in their product line.
- Run away from social media.
- Discourage conversion at events and then turn them into a 2 day giant GW store.

Lego's big turnaround came when they hired a new CEO and said "our way isn't working, let's try things your way". If GW hires the right person and has this attitude, they could turn the company around and be more profitable than ever before. If they hire the wrong person, don't give him any freedom to make changes or a combination of the two, it could go very badly.

I drive a v8 pick up truck in the midwest, i go to work daily but really i don't drive very far...that statement was based off of my personal expense...also if you burn 100 dollars worth of gas at 2.15 a gallon a week that means you burn on average 200 gallons, which is quite extreme for a 4 cylnder unless its got a displacement of 12 litres and the pistons the size of a cruise missile. Not flaming you just trying to wrap my head around your rebuttle. I also have watched that lego documentry, The core issues GW is facing is lack of image, if there was a GW store which events going in most major towns i think people would notice the brand and investigate, i've played countless mini war games and none have had the depth that GW has but also i've never had the extremely high price tag to pay in other mini games..which is a large turn off for people in my area, the fact that you have to pay on average 25-50 bucks for something you have to assemble and paint yourself then purchase a 50 dollar put on top of another 50-80 dollar rule book to play really hurts people...now keep in mind as an adult mini player i don't mind glueing,painting and so fourth but to younger gamers with smaller budgets..other mini games seem more easily to play and to purchase.

on a side note, i feel like GW is a good game company i really do, their products are nice quality and for the most part their rules and game phsyics have enough depth to hold attention

**MWHistorian**

The testimonies from court cases and past actions make me think that GW is not a good company at all.

**Crimson Heretic**

MWHistorian wrote:
The testimonies from court cases and past actions make me think that GW is not a good company at all.

thats with any company...auto makers create countless death with poor designs/components yet people still flock to buy that brand...

**heartserenade**

And one million people doing a bad thing doesn't make it the right thing.

**Squigsquasher**

There's nothing GW can do. The internet's GW hate cult is so massive that even if GW gave out their models for free, released the most solid set of rules ever, allowed any and all conversions and made a cure for AIDS, people would still be decrying them as the Wargaming Great Satan and whinging on about how much better Warmachine is.

**MWHistorian**

Squigsquasher wrote:
There's nothing GW can do. The internet's GW hate cult is so massive that even if GW gave out their models for free, released the most solid set of rules ever, allowed any and all conversions and made a cure for AIDS, people would still be decrying them as the Wargaming Great Satan and whinging on about how much better Warmachine is.

Oh, cut it out. That kind of reasoning does nothing useful. You hear so much criticism about GW because there's a heck of a lot to criticize and GW does nothing to address those criticisms. If they tried to change for the better you'd see many more people being far more friendly with them.

Despite what you think, people with complaints about GW aren't one dimensional, mustache twirling villains.

**Grimtuff**

Squigsquasher wrote:
There's nothing GW can do. The internet's GW hate cult is so massive that even if GW gave out their models for free, released the most solid set of rules ever, allowed any and all conversions and made a cure for AIDS, people would still be decrying them as the Wargaming Great Satan and whinging on about how much better Warmachine is.

Better late than never coming to defend fair lady GW...

**Rayvon**

I can see why people think the stores are a waste of space, in the UK I am pretty much sure that they just serve as very expensive billboards.
The last three times I went in, they never had what I was after, this is Nottingham, Loughborough and Leicester, stores right near the factory too. The icing on the cake is when they tell you, in store that they don't stock several items because they are mail order only......
Thats three sales lost right there, I am a sucker too and I would probably have spent more on an impulse purchases as well if I was not let down by them holding such a crappy little amount of stock, but they don't really seem to care.

I am not really one to moan about GW that much, but the stores really irk me !!

**Squigsquasher**

Grimtuff wrote:
Squigsquasher wrote:
There's nothing GW can do. The internet's GW hate cult is so massive that even if GW gave out their models for free, released the most solid set of rules ever, allowed any and all conversions and made a cure for AIDS, people would still be decrying them as the Wargaming Great Satan and whinging on about how much better Warmachine is.

Better late than never coming to defend fair lady GW...

*Gasp* How DARE I find the endless torrents of "GW SUXX I BET I COULD RUN A HUGE COMPANY MUCH BETTER THAN THEM BAAAAWWWWW!" tiresome! I must flagellate myself and bow before the shrine of Infinity and crappy kickstarter projects!

Are you familiar with the concept of the Unpleasable Fanbase? Because I'm pretty much convinced that's exactly what GW's fandom is. In fact I'd compare them to Transformers, Star Wars and Pokemon; it doesn't have any fans, just lots of people who allegedly liked it so they have an excuse to complain about how terrible it is now and how it's been ruined forever.

[MOD EDIT: RULE #1 - Alpharius]

**Kilkrazy**

Squigsquasher wrote:
There's nothing GW can do. The internet's GW hate cult is so massive that even if GW gave out their models for free, released the most solid set of rules ever, allowed any and all conversions and made a cure for AIDS, people would still be decrying them as the Wargaming Great Satan and whinging on about how much better Warmachine is.

Maybe so.

It would be nice to have a live test of that!

**MWHistorian**

Squigsquasher wrote:
Grimtuff wrote:
Squigsquasher wrote:
There's nothing GW can do. The internet's GW hate cult is so massive that even if GW gave out their models for free, released the most solid set of rules ever, allowed any and all conversions and made a cure for AIDS, people would still be decrying them as the Wargaming Great Satan and whinging on about how much better Warmachine is.

Better late than never coming to defend fair lady GW...

*Gasp* How DARE I find the endless torrents of "GW SUXX I BET I COULD RUN A HUGE COMPANY MUCH BETTER THAN THEM BAAAAWWWWW!" tiresome! I must flagellate myself and bow before the shrine of Infinity and crappy kickstarter projects!

Are you familiar with the concept of the Unpleasable Fanbase? Because I'm pretty much convinced that's exactly what GW's fandom is. In fact I'd compare them to Transformers, Star Wars and Pokemon; it doesn't have any fans, just lots of people who allegedly liked it so they have an excuse to complain about how terrible it is now and how it's been ruined forever.

But I must be quiet and go along with the hate bandwagon like a good little dakkatard, lest I be noticed for not hating everything GW does and be banned again.

How about this. When GW starts addressing those concerns, then we can talk about the fanbase being rational or not.
They don't listen. Do no market research and have no open channels back and forth.

**Ensis Ferrae**

MWHistorian wrote:
Squigsquasher wrote:
Grimtuff wrote:
Squigsquasher wrote:
There's nothing GW can do. The internet's GW hate cult is so massive that even if GW gave out their models for free, released the most solid set of rules ever, allowed any and all conversions and made a cure for AIDS, people would still be decrying them as the Wargaming Great Satan and whinging on about how much better Warmachine is.

Better late than never coming to defend fair lady GW...

*Gasp* How DARE I find the endless torrents of "GW SUXX I BET I COULD RUN A HUGE COMPANY MUCH BETTER THAN THEM BAAAAWWWWW!" tiresome! I must flagellate myself and bow before the shrine of Infinity and crappy kickstarter projects!

Are you familiar with the concept of the Unpleasable Fanbase? Because I'm pretty much convinced that's exactly what GW's fandom is. In fact I'd compare them to Transformers, Star Wars and Pokemon; it doesn't have any fans, just lots of people who allegedly liked it so they have an excuse to complain about how terrible it is now and how it's been ruined forever.

But I must be quiet and go along with the hate bandwagon like a good little dakkatard, lest I be noticed for not hating everything GW does and be banned again.

How about this. When GW starts addressing those concerns, then we can talk about the fanbase being rational or not.
They don't listen. Do no market research and have no open channels back and forth.

I'm with MWHistorian here... IF later on today, I got an email from GW (since I'm still subscribed to them) asking for input on a poll of some kind for ANYTHING... I may vote on it, but I wouldn't hold my breath that anything would actually be affected. If this poll was something like "Should the assault phase be removed from 40k?" and they showed the voting percentages (which basically anyone who runs an online poll would do), and the general public voted "Yes", I would expect somewhere in the near future to be seeing an announcement that they've removed the Assault Phase.

IF something like that happened, I would probably pay slightly more attention to what GW does, because it would show that they've taken at least one step towards fixing what ails them. That whole "the customer is always right" thing, still rings true, and while ya can't please everyone, you should at least attempt to garner favor/support from a larger number of people than GW currently does.

**Musashi363**

If it was just the fan base, how come these same people are perfectly happy posting about other games? Check out the WMH or Infinity forums. You don't see anywhere near the level of complaining as you do in the GW forums, and these are often the same people. It MIGHT be the game and not the players then. Hmmmm

**Davor**

MWHistorian wrote:
The testimonies from court cases and past actions make me think that GW is not a good company at all.

Who is better? Games Workshop or WizKids?

**Herzlos**

Squigsquasher wrote:

Are you familiar with the concept of the Unpleasable Fanbase? Because I'm pretty much convinced that's exactly what GW's fandom is. In fact I'd compare them to Transformers, Star Wars and Pokemon; it doesn't have any fans, just lots of people who allegedly liked it so they have an excuse to complain about how terrible it is now and how it's been ruined forever.

But the same fanbase are largely pleased by other companies. Is that because they are running things better, or are they just popular as some sort of protest?

**Murenius**

Herzlos wrote:

But the same fanbase are largely pleased by other companies. Is that because they are running things better, or are they just popular as some sort of protest?

The gist of the matter is that the fanbase of GW is rather large, arguably the largest customer base in tabletop gaming. It's heterogeneous and consists of many groups (e.g. painters, gamers, those who love the fluff, those who like the brutal setting, those who like the models...). Now the other companies are smaller and it's easier to design something that pleases one or two of those subsets. Usually since they are smaller companies, have no shops, etc. they are also more flexible and can fulfil their wishes easier and more spontaneously.

I am pretty sure that if one niche games got very successful and their marketing guys realize that the next big step can only be achieved by getting into existing toy shops ...they would become more and more like GW is now. The RPG history has quite some examples of how this happens. Here in Germany the biggest local RPG system, 'The Dark Eye' basically has the same history as GW and the fanbases' attitude towards them is very similar. People think they are greedy, regardless of how they publish something there is always a group that cries "the end is nigh" and so on. I had the chance to speak with someone of their core team at a gaming event and learned that this system is mostly a zero sum game. And that it has been sold twice or thrice in all the years confirms that this is not really a money maker.

**Herzlos**

That makes sense, thanks

**PhantomViper**

Murenius wrote:
Herzlos wrote:

But the same fanbase are largely pleased by other companies. Is that because they are running things better, or are they just popular as some sort of protest?

The gist of the matter is that the fanbase of GW is rather large, arguably the largest customer base in tabletop gaming. It's heterogeneous and consists of many groups (e.g. painters, gamers, those who love the fluff, those who like the brutal setting, those who like the models...). Now the other companies are smaller and it's easier to design something that pleases one or two of those subsets. Usually since they are smaller companies, have no shops, etc. they are also more flexible and can fulfil their wishes easier and more spontaneously.

Why? What does the customer base size has to do with it being more or less heterogeneous? Why wouldn't other companies customer bases also be as diverse as GW's? Also, what proof do you have to make those claims?

GW is not a unique snow flake, they cater and sell to the exact same demographics as every other wargaming miniature company out there. The reason that they receive a much larger amount of criticism than any of its competitors is because their attitudes towards their customers and fans is allot worse than that of their competitors. There is no mystery here.

**heartserenade**

Murenius wrote:
Herzlos wrote:

But the same fanbase are largely pleased by other companies. Is that because they are running things better, or are they just popular as some sort of protest?

The gist of the matter is that the fanbase of GW is rather large, arguably the largest customer base in tabletop gaming. It's heterogeneous and consists of many groups (e.g. painters, gamers, those who love the fluff, those who like the brutal setting, those who like the models...). Now the other companies are smaller and it's easier to design something that pleases one or two of those subsets. Usually since they are smaller companies, have no shops, etc. they are also more flexible and can fulfil their wishes easier and more spontaneously.

MtG has a larger fanbase than GW. Sure, they can't please all of their fans and some people will complain no matter what, but they're taking less criticisms for what they do. Hell, look at their official forums. There's a negative thread here and there but not as much as the flak that GW is taking right now.

A larger fanbase might be harder to please, but that doesn't mean you have to stop trying to please them.

**Murenius**

PhantomViper wrote:

Why? What does the customer base size has to do with it being more or less heterogeneous? Why wouldn't other companies customer bases also be as diverse as GW's? Also, what proof do you have to make those claims?

GW is not a unique snow flake, they cater and sell to the exact same demographics as every other wargaming miniature company out there. The reason that they receive a much larger amount of criticism than any of its competitors is because their attitudes towards their customers and fans is allot worse than that of their competitors. There is no mystery here.

I've seen GW stuff in toy shops that do not even have RPGs, all over Europe. To my knowledge this is unique, and no other tabletop has ever been available outside of specialist game stores. Also, what proof do YOU have for your opinion.

They are unique in that they are the biggest company in the tabletop sector and have managed to stay in business for over 25 years. Is there any other comparable company? And sorry, but "their attitude towards fans" is inevitably "worse" since they are a bigger company than most. Comes with the requirements of bigger turnovers, owners, stakeholders, etc. Just compare the video/computer game industry, people also whine there about companies "ripping them off", even companies they once loved like Blizzard. They are friggin companies. They are there to make profit, not to make people happy. Smaller, newer companies come from the scene themselves usually. They often start since they wanted to make the game that GW doesn't make anymore. If they stay small and niche they can continue to do this. If they become a big international company, go to the stic market and so on they will change. For sure. Success seems to doom gaming companies.

heartserenade wrote:

MtG has a larger fanbase than GW. Sure, they can't please all of their fans and some people will complain no matter what, but they're taking less criticisms for what they do. Hell, look at their official forums. There's a negative thread here and there but not as much as the flak that GW is taking right now.

A larger fanbase might be harder to please, but that doesn't mean you have to stop trying to please them.

I'm afraid MtG can't be compared that well to tabletop gaming. If you're pissed off by MtG's constructed environment and do not want to pay 1000$ for rares that you need to play in a vintage tournament you can still choose to play just in standard or the latest block. Or (like me) you just play drafts in tournaments and retro highlander decks in a friendly environment. You don't really have that choice in 40k. Also, for the price of an edition playset of commons and uncommons I get one vehicle in 40k or maybe 2 squads.

However, I think that Wizard is doing a better job updating their rules. They were the first ones to use USR like removing the card text and just calling it "Deathtouch". GW picked that up in 6th and 7th... poorly, compared to MtG.

**PhantomViper**

Murenius wrote:

I've seen GW stuff in toy shops that do not even have RPGs, all over Europe. To my knowledge this is unique, and no other tabletop has ever been available outside of specialist game stores. Also, what proof do YOU have for your opinion.

Stop moving the goalposts.

Your statement was that the reason that GW received more criticisms was because they have a more eclectic customer base. What does having their product available for sale through toy stores has anything to do with this?

Also, you're the one making claims, so you're the one with the burden of proof.

And X-Wing is also available outside of specialist stores, so are a myriad of other similar products including card games and board games: why aren't those companies subjected to the same amount of criticism as GW?

Murenius wrote:

They are unique in that they are the biggest company in the tabletop sector and have managed to stay in business for over 25 years. Is there any other comparable company? And sorry, but "their attitude towards fans" is inevitably "worse" since they are a bigger company than most. Comes with the requirements of bigger turnovers, owners, stakeholders, etc. Just compare the video/computer game industry, people also whine there about companies "ripping them off", even companies they once loved like Blizzard. They are friggin companies. They are there to make profit, not to make people happy. Smaller, newer companies come from the scene themselves usually. They often start since they wanted to make the game that GW doesn't make anymore. If they stay small and niche they can continue to do this. If they become a big international company, go to the stic market and so on they will change. For sure. Success seems to doom gaming companies..

No, it doesn't. That is just a load of bullgak!

GW might be the biggest miniature wargaming company but they are barely a blip in the gaming and toy market and you don't see any of the big boys in that industry having the same problems with customer relations as GW have.

And your statements don't make any sense: "They are friggin companies. They are there to make profit, not to make people happy." Really? Do you think that companies don't make money by keeping their customers happy?

These companies make luxury goods, if people don't like them then they will stop buying their products and the companies will shutdown, like its starting to happen to GW.

**Murenius**

PhantomViper wrote:

Stop moving the goalposts.

Your statement was that the reason that GW received more criticisms was because they have a more eclectic customer base. What does having their product available for sale through toy stores has anything to do with this?

Also, you're the one making claims, so you're the one with the burden of proof.

And X-Wing is also available outside of specialist stores, so are a myriad of other similar products including card games and board games: why aren't those companies subjected to the same amount of criticism as GW?

(quote removed)

No, it doesn't. That is just a load of bullgak!

GW might be the biggest miniature wargaming company but they are barely a blip in the gaming and toy market and you don't see any of the big boys in that industry having the same problems with customer relations as GW have.

And your statements don't make any sense: "They are friggin companies. They are there to make profit, not to make people happy." Really? Do you think that companies don't make money by keeping their customers happy?

These companies make luxury goods, if people don't like them then they will stop buying their products and the companies will shutdown, like its starting to happen to GW.

Oh, so we are at the "calling the others' arguments BS" point now. Can we please just have a discussion? Its not like any of our lives depended on this

And yes, I know we're on the Internet here

Their product being available in non-specialist stores (and other tabletop strategy games not) is just a strong hint at their unique position and market power. X-Wing is not available in toy stores in Germany at least to my knowledge, only in gamestores/RPG stores. Your mileage may vary.

And yes, you are right, there are other big companies in games and toys, but we're discussing the miniature wargaming market here... talking about shifting the goalposts.

Also, again namecalling... my arguments make perfect sense *in my eyes*. They are a company and keeping customers happy may be a means to make profit - but you're mistaking a means for the goal. There are indeed companies that make profit by deciding that profit goes over happy customers. Just take hedgefonds as an example. The German TV market is another one. Cheap productions that many people despise are still the better economical choice since they are so cheap and it takes a lot less viewers to make them profitable... however many viewers (=customers) are not happy with this.

"and the companies will shutdown, like its starting to happen to GW." Now you are the one claiming things without proof. GW's revenue is pretty constant since 2009, so on what do you base your assumption?

**MWHistorian**

The idea that GW can't improve its interactions with the customer base is absurd. They have little to no interaction so anything would be a step up.

Instead of assuming that the complaints are some kind of hive-mind irrational hatred, maybe consider that the complaints are real, but they're not being addressed or acknowledged.
Much, much bigger companies manage to please most of their customers most of the time.
GW doesn't because of their arrogance and ineptitude.

**Rayvon**

Squigsquasher wrote:

Are you familiar with the concept of the Unpleasable Fanbase? Because I'm pretty much convinced that's exactly what GW's fandom is. In fact I'd compare them to Transformers, Star Wars and Pokemon; it doesn't have any fans, just lots of people who allegedly liked it so they have an excuse to complain about how terrible it is now and how it's been ruined forever.

But I must be quiet and go along with the hate bandwagon like a good little dakkatard, lest I be noticed for not hating everything GW does and be banned again.

Its a really good point, a lot of people will never be pleased to matter what, and even if the majority are, you will never be able to please everyone.
I only really see the hate when i come on this Forum, IRL in the clubs and stores the hate is nowhere near as bad as it is on here, well not in the UK anyway.
Most people i speak to only have one issue, the prices.

Its to be expected though, there will always be a few people with an obvious agenda,but some people really cant afford it, some people really dont like the rules and some people feel really let down.
Those not happy will always speak more and louder that those that are happy, especially if it is a subject that is important to them, thats just the way the internet, and forums work for the most part.

**heartserenade**

So it's okay to use other companies that are not in the miniature wargaming business as an example, but when other people do it it's moving goalposts?

**Wayniac**

Wait so your argument is that GW's problems are due to being a big company, and not because they're run by fething morons?

GW is a small portion of the wargaming market; they might be the largest currently but they're also steadily declining when their competitors are slowly increasing.

Also, a lot of knowledgeable people with backgrounds in finance/economics/business have analyzed GW's financials and statedt that the company is in a bad way. I'd trust the opinion of someone with actual background in running a business or financials than someone who just looks at the profit and says "Well, they were profitable. No issue here".

Blizzard gets a lot of flak with stuff for WoW, but at least they will talk about it. Even if I disagree with some of their reasons for let's say nerfing a class, at least they state their reasons it's not the voice of god from the mountain and no mere mortal may dare question the divine word of truth because the gates of Olympus are shut.

GW gets flak because they are borderline insulting, and consider their customers to be drooling idiots that buy anything with a GW logo on it because it has a GW logo on it, no matter the price or usefulness (which again is outright insulting and insinuates that their customers just think "Oooh shiny!" like an animal or someone with a mental disability) and it shows with some of their releases. That's a big reason why they get flak. It's not some "GW Haters Club" on the internet a la 4chan or similar troll sites that get together and decide to go trolling the web putting down GW, it's legit complaints often from former customers that want to be customers again but don't want to deal with a company that has such vitriol and disdain for the people helping them stay in business.

**PhantomViper**

Murenius wrote:

"and the companies will shutdown, like its starting to happen to GW." Now you are the one claiming things without proof. GW's revenue is pretty constant since 2009, so on what do you base your assumption?

GW's revenue dropped almost 9% in the past year and their profits dropped 42%, despite having re-released their two biggest selling lines during that period (SM and 7th ed 40k), if you don't even know this...

**Murenius**

WayneTheGame wrote:
Wait so your argument is that GW's problems are due to being a big company, and not because they're run by fething morons?

GW is a small portion of the wargaming market; they might be the largest currently but they're also steadily declining when their competitors are slowly increasing.

No, they're not. These are their figures for the last 9 years.

Year, Rev, Prof, Rev(IA)
2014, 123.5, 12.3, 123.5
2013, 134.6, 21.3, 134.6
2012, 131.0, 19.1, 135.0
2011, 123.1, 15.3, 130.8
2010, 126.5, 16.0, 141.5
2009, 125.7, 9.0, 147.1
2008, 110.3, 2.5, 128.4
2007, 109.5, (1.8), 132.6
2006, 115.2, 4.2, 145.2

WayneTheGame wrote:
Also, a lot of knowledgeable people with backgrounds in finance/economics/business have analyzed GW's financials and statedt that the company is in a bad way. I'd trust the opinion of someone with actual background in running a business or financials than someone who just looks at the profit and says "Well, they were profitable. No issue here".

Blizzard gets a lot of flak with stuff for WoW, but at least they will talk about it. Even if I disagree with some of their reasons for let's say nerfing a class, at least they state their reasons it's not the voice of god from the mountain and no mere mortal may dare question the divine word of truth.

GW gets flak because they are borderline insulting, and consider their customers to be drooling idiots that buy anything with a GW logo on it because it has a GW logo on it, no matter the price or usefulness (which again is outright insulting and insinuates that their customers just think "Oooh shiny!" like an animal or someone with a mental disability) and it shows with some of their releases. That's a big reason why they get flak. It's not some "GW Haters Club" on the internet a la 4chan or similar troll sites that get together and decide to go trolling the web putting down GW, it's legit complaints often from former customers that want to be customers again but don't want to deal with a company that has such vitriol and disdain for the people helping them stay in business.

The point that most critics elude is that if it really was that simple people wouldn't be buying the stuff. The only argument that you get for this (as you do) is claiming they are idiots. Now let's take a step back and look at other possible explanations. And in my eyes the most probable is: summed up the customers like what is offered and they are willing to pay for it. Calling them idiots (or comparing them to disabled people... very mature) is hardly an argument. I rather think people on the internet hate the fact that there are people with another opinion

And if someone does not agree to your point of view he obviously must be a moron since he doesn't see the shiny truth, even if it is rubbed into his face...

Automatically Appended Next Post:

PhantomViper wrote:
Murenius wrote:

"and the companies will shutdown, like its starting to happen to GW." Now you are the one claiming things without proof. GW's revenue is pretty constant since 2009, so on what do you base your assumption?

GW's revenue dropped almost 9% in the past year and their profits dropped 42%, despite having re-released their two biggest selling lines during that period (SM and 7th ed 40k), if you don't even know this...

Check the figures above. Compared to the last 9 years this is not really a strong fluctuation. Taking one year out of the context doesn't say anything about the trend.

**Rayvon**

GW are also having some redevelopment work done on warhammer world this year, it does not look cheap either.
Im not sure this has been mentioned.