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Is the Eldar codex that OP or is it just having a few units that are really good. I think most of the time when someone cries OP codex it's when the codex has a few OP units. I would say the codex is OP if you can take almost every unit in the codex and they can out perform most units. I don't see many different builds with Eldar so I wouldn't say it's OP. It's just people taking the very best units in the codex. All I would like in the new codex's is a way to have a few different army builds that I could use in a semi-competitive way. It seems like everything is going to be bland and the same build for each army.

 Harakiri wrote:
Is the Eldar codex that OP or is it just having a few units that are really good. I think most of the time when someone cries OP codex it's when the codex has a few OP units. I would say the codex is OP if you can take almost every unit in the codex and they can out perform most units. I don't see many different builds with Eldar so I wouldn't say it's OP. It's just people taking the very best units in the codex. All I would like in the new codex's is a way to have a few different army builds that I could use in a semi-competitive way. It seems like everything is going to be bland and the same build for each army.

The base dedicated transport of Eldar is one of the most OP pieces of it.

It'd be like if the common Rhino was OP, everyone takes it already because of how useful it is and being the standard transport, now give it weaponry that makes heavy support vehicles green with envy and you'd have an issue.

Imagine if a land raider was half the points and could be taken by every unit in the codex as a dedicated transport. Now you have the equivalent to a wave serpent. Whoever said that eldar are hurt by the assassins, the seer council has fallen out of favor among top tournament players lately. Most lists now use a Spiritseer to make wraithguard troops, getting even more obsec wave serpents. Also with Baron likely being removed from the next DE codex, the seerstar's days are numbered. Iyanden eldar with an invisible wraithknight that's also a warlord is where it's at now.

The biggest problems with the Eldar codex as a book is the Wave Serpent and bladestorm. It's far too powerful for its role- a dedicated transport that doesn't take up a slot. Even if it were a HS or FA unit, it's still more durable and more or less stronger than even a tank, despite costing a lot less. Bladestorm allows Eldar to punish high toughness/low sv units too much, and combined with battle-focus (which isn't that overpowered in itself) makes them all but untouchable by TEQ/MC's.

Beyond that though, Eldar's only really a problem because of the editions. Things like jink and invisibility are far too beneficial for them, and jetbike rules are pretty ridiculous as well. In a skirmish level game like 40K, that relies alot on terrain and objectives, having units that can basically move from one end of the board to the other in a single turn while having a save that makes them all but invincible is just too much.

Eldar, like Tau, benefit a lot from the edition rules. But as we've seen with the Tau, that's not reliable. Eldar managed to stay more or less as good as they've been since 6th edition, whereas 7th edition's new focus on mobility has pretty much crippled the Greater Good. At least for now.

 gmaleron wrote:
I agree that Eldar are a strong Codex (I REFUSE to say OP because I have learned how to play against them and have a winning record against them, including the "nasty" lists) but the Tau did take a significant hit with 7th. Losing the ability for IC's to attach to MC's and Eldar Battle Brothers took out a good chunk of nastiest Tau lists. Personally I think armies like the Astra Militarium and certain Space Marine builds are stronger then Tau are and again, it boils down to changing up your lists and tactics to handle the new meta.

Eldar it's not so much the entire codex is "OP", as it is a Kelly codex, thus certain units are OP, certain units are worthless, and the rest of the codex is pretty good.
Wave Serpents need Serpent Shield toned down a lot. Otherwise it is OK. Falcons need buffed a bit in comparison, as they are the Eldar equivalent of a Razorback trying to be an Eldar Predator tank. Take the shooting part of the Serpent shield off (yeah, it's a throwback to 2nd edition wave serpents, but game balance should trump nostalga) and let it keep the 2+ change a pen to a glance. People would stop complaining (mostly, some people will always complain)
Guardian Jetbike squads are a combination of fast, cheap, objective secured, and durable. And Jetseer councils are also a problem. Common denominator? The Eldar Jetbike. Why exactly does it give a 3+ save, which is so much better than the 5+ that guardians normally get? Marine bikes don't add armor save, Dark Eldar bikes don't, Ork Bikes are equal to heavy armor which is 4+, which Orks can buy. So why do Eldar jetbikes give so much better armor in addition to being faster than normal jetbikes and the boost in toughness? Switch them to a 4+ or no improvement to saves, and drop the price a couple points, and they would be a lot better balanced.
Howling Banshees- Banshee Scream should cancel overwatch. That would make them useful and give them a role again.

Tau are mostly fixed with the edition change. Riptides are still strong, but just need a bit of points adjustment- Ion Accelerator bump to +15 or +20 points instead of +5, and bump the Interceptor wargear from 5 points to 15. Bump the planes side armor to 11, give Vespid a bit more range to their gun, and maybe give Kroot their second attack back and most the problems in that book are dealt with as well.

Daemons are a mess, still. I'd start with removing the crazy warp charge point battery, aka the ML3 pink horror squads. Drop them to ML1, and you put a dent in a lot of abusive tactics.

Chaos Marines...err, they are a mess. Especially when cultists are the most popular troop choice, drowning out actual chaos marines. They need a major rethink.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 gmaleron wrote:
I agree that Eldar are a strong Codex (I REFUSE to say OP because I have learned how to play against them and have a winning record against them, including the "nasty" lists) but the Tau did take a significant hit with 7th. Losing the ability for IC's to attach to MC's and Eldar Battle Brothers took out a good chunk of nastiest Tau lists. Personally I think armies like the Astra Militarium and certain Space Marine builds are stronger then Tau are and again, it boils down to changing up your lists and tactics to handle the new meta.

Eldar it's not so much the entire codex is "OP", as it is a Kelly codex, thus certain units are OP, certain units are worthless, and the rest of the codex is pretty good.
Wave Serpents need Serpent Shield toned down a lot. Otherwise it is OK. Falcons need buffed a bit in comparison, as they are the Eldar equivalent of a Razorback trying to be an Eldar Predator tank. Take the shooting part of the Serpent shield off (yeah, it's a throwback to 2nd edition wave serpents, but game balance should trump nostalga) and let it keep the 2+ change a pen to a glance. People would stop complaining (mostly, some people will always complain)
Guardian Jetbike squads are a combination of fast, cheap, objective secured, and durable. And Jetseer councils are also a problem. Common denominator? The Eldar Jetbike. Why exactly does it give a 3+ save, which is so much better than the 5+ that guardians normally get? Marine bikes don't add armor save, Dark Eldar bikes don't, Ork Bikes are equal to heavy armor which is 4+, which Orks can buy. So why do Eldar jetbikes give so much better armor in addition to being faster than normal jetbikes and the boost in toughness? Switch them to a 4+ or no improvement to saves, and drop the price a couple points, and they would be a lot better balanced.
Howling Banshees- Banshee Scream should cancel overwatch. That would make them useful and give them a role again.

Tau are mostly fixed with the edition change. Riptides are still strong, but just need a bit of points adjustment- Ion Accelerator bump to +15 or +20 points instead of +5, and bump the Interceptor wargear from 5 points to 15. Bump the planes side armor to 11, give Vespid a bit more range to their gun, and maybe give Kroot their second attack back and most the problems in that book are dealt with as well.

Daemons are a mess, still. I'd start with removing the crazy warp charge point battery, aka the ML3 pink horror squads. Drop them to ML1, and you put a dent in a lot of abusive tactics.

Chaos Marines...err, they are a mess. Especially when cultists are the most popular troop choice, drowning out actual chaos marines. They need a major rethink.

Can't agree any more. If GW gets around to give eldar, daemons, CSM and maybe tyranids the same treatment orks have gotten, they have done something actually worth some praise. It wouldn't be perfect, but it's a huge jump from "Oh, you're also playing Taudar, wanna flip a coin to see who wins and grab a beer instead?" "Sure, let's go."

Kangodo wrote:
http://www.torrentoffire.com/5612/7th-edition-three-months-in

Doesn't seem to be that bad.
But how is it the fault of a new Codex-system that Eldar are way too strong in tournaments?
Tau, for some reason, stopped dominating that hard in Tournaments.

Nice to see Sisters doing well.

The issue is that the new Codexes seems to be somewhat more balanced but the Eldar Codex has been left as is, if the Wave Serpent (and the Banshees) were fixed the game would be in a better place..............