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I've seen lots of people discuss the Vallejo Surface Primer in this forum and a lot of people have complained about it, saying it doesn't stick to the material and it isn't tough enough to handle. The instructions on the bottle are pretty general and don't address the problems that people seem to report. I think a lot of people seem to forget the "multiple thin coats" rule when it comes to using these primers and also forget that just because it feels dry to the touch, it doesn't mean it is cured. Vallejo posted this video on their Facebook page yesterday and I think it really helps explain the best use of the product. Hopefully this helps people if they run in to issues using the Surface Primer.
By the way, this is not my video. The guy who made it is an extremely talented modeler and he runs a website called Scratchmod.com.
d-usa wrote: "When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
2014/08/27 17:11:32
Subject: Re:Vallejo Surface Primer: A how-to video
Thairne wrote: The quality of the vid is horrible, but I learned quite a bit. I've been doing it pretty wrong, it seems...
Yes, that is why I stressed that it is not my video!
When Vallejo Surface Primer is applied correctly, it is pretty tough. People tend to think just because it is an airbrush primer that means it is faster than using an aerosol primer; it isn't, it is just much more precise (and leaves a better surface to paint on IMHO). I'm as guilty as the next person when it comes to being in a hurry when painting, but it really does pay to take your time.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/27 20:18:03
d-usa wrote: "When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
Good find! I've really come to love the PU primer (which I also lightly thin with the Vallejo Airbrush Thinner) and it pains me to see thread after thread of people knocking the stuff on account of user error. It is its own product - while it fills the same role as many others, expecting them all to be used the same just sets you up for disappointment.
Of course, the very fact that its usage requires such specific measures (cure time perhaps the most significant factor) means it isn't for everyone. That's okay, though - know what is does, know how to use it, and use something else if it doesn't fit your particular needs. Not fitting your feet well is no reason to call a hat inferior - you should've gotten shoes, instead.
The Dreadnote wrote:But the Emperor already has a shrine, in the form of your local Games Workshop. You honour him by sacrificing your money to the plastic effigies of his warriors. In time, your devotion will be rewarded with the gift of having even more effigies to worship.
Do wish they would just post transcripts...videos are neat for some people I guess, but truthfully...I normally don't have a lot of time to watch a video that has a paragraph of information scattered through 10 minutes.
The cure time is the big issue with almost all your kinder, gentler paints. The manufacturers have done it to themselves though. One of the big selling points that most of them go on about is how fast they dry. People get in their head that dry means that they are good to go, when that is far from the truth.
Another point which he gets that I have seen a lot of people get confused on is the coverage. With water based (and other kinder, gentler primers) - you need 100% coverage. The old school, enamels had etchants for metals and the solvents would melt themselves right to your plastics. This allowed you to only need to use a light "dusting" of primer to give it some tooth. These paints though don't stick to your surface in that same manner. They stick to each other, and you need to effectively shrink wrap your miniature to make sure the primer doesn't pull away. Using an airbrush with several thin layers, you can get 100% coverage without any loss of detail fairly easily. If you still see the underlying plastic though, don't be surprised in a few months when the paint starts to flake off (I have even seen it flake off when they are still painting due to the shrinkage of water based paints).
Definitely prefer spraying it through the airbrush, but I've had good luck brushing it on, as well. What kind surface were you trying to prime, carlos? One of the reasons I picked up a bottle when I did was because I heard the PU primer worked on Reaper's Bones plastic (a soft PVC, if I'm not mistaken). I tested it with a brushed application (applied neat - no thinning) and it came out fine. I've sprayed it on both Bones plastic and metal without issue. Only materials I haven't used it on are various model resins (have used it on some resins) and styrene, as I'm still using aerosol enamels on GW kits to match the method used for already finished models.
The Dreadnote wrote:But the Emperor already has a shrine, in the form of your local Games Workshop. You honour him by sacrificing your money to the plastic effigies of his warriors. In time, your devotion will be rewarded with the gift of having even more effigies to worship.
carlos13th wrote: Had trouble with both metal and restic. The primer just seems to seep into the recesses while rarely staying on the raised surfaces.
Were the surfaces you applying to clean of dirt and oil? Skin oil can wreck havoc on paint adhesion. Also, did you shake the bottle thoroughly? The Surface Primer has the nasty habit of separating very easily, especially if the bottle has been sitting for a long period of time.
d-usa wrote: "When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
2014/09/02 14:22:43
Subject: Re:Vallejo Surface Primer: A how-to video
Just a follow up on how resilient Vallejo Surface Primer can be:
I tried to apply "barber stripe" decals on these two laser cannons and I didn't like the way they looked. So instead of trying to remove the decal with MicroSet, I just stripped the cannons. As you can see, the Surface Primer wasn't damaged after spending 24 hours in a tub of Super Clean. I was able to wipe the decal and paint away easily. Where the primer is missing on the bottom cannon is from where I sanded it after I stripped it; there was a little bit of a mold line still there.
If the primer is applied the right way, it's pretty damn tough.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/02 16:08:24
d-usa wrote: "When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
Sean_OBrien wrote: Do wish they would just post transcripts...videos are neat for some people I guess, but truthfully...I normally don't have a lot of time to watch a video that has a paragraph of information scattered through 10 minutes.
One of my pet hates is when people make a video when text and pictures would not only suffice, but be better. You can scan a paragraph and not miss anything in a few seconds... the same thing makes a 10 minute video which if you skip forward through you might miss things. I cracked it at one of my professors when he told me to remake the tutorials I had written as videos because he thought it'd be easier for the students to understand
But yeah, you can get a reasonably tough coat of primer if you do it right... but it still won't be as tough as a spray can primer which you've also sprayed correctly and the spray primer even if you don't do it correctly it will still probably be sufficient.
It's nice having more control over the spray when airbrush priming, but honestly I don't typically NEED that sort of control when priming, just a couple of light spritzes and it's ready for the basecoat.
The main reason I'm using Vallejo surface primer is because it ends up cheaper than spray can primers Spray can primers, 80-90% of the paint just misses the model, an airbrush primer the majority of it ends up on the model. I bought a 200ml bottle at the start of this year and have barely made a dent in it (haven't been counting the models, but it's been at least a few dozen infantry and 2 tanks and I can barely tell it's been used at all).
I simply can't justify the cost of buying more cans of spray primer while I still have all that Vallejo primer even though I mostly prefer the spray cans.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/09/02 15:15:52
