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 Asherian Command wrote:
Damn this is a complicated issue. And kind of dumb on the part of Zoey Quinn. You should not go around and start tearing down the information because it might make you look bad. If you take it down, it just paints you as more guilty.

22,000 posts deleted on Reddit regarding Zoe, with the reddit Mod having a conversation with Zoe Quinn while it was happening and then posting "Aint it good being a mod" on twitter. He wasn't fired from his position because he is the senior mod. Its really about corruption, journalistic ethics and integrity and mass censorship. Matti Leshams game jam fell apart and Kotaku and the like ripped him apart and posted it over and over everywhere, Zoe Quinn was working for the game jam under him and through him under the bus, now she admits she purposely tanked it and TFYC game jam and they say nothing because the Journalists are either funding it or directly involved. And no site was allowed to talk about it.


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 LordofHats wrote:

 Mechanical Crow wrote:
Its being tracked on several websites with all the evidence being posted.

Yeah, but it's what not on the internet that interests me. One of the tragedies of the internet is that a lot of primary documentation gets deleted/not saved. What about Kotaku's internal documents? What might those say about this? What might people involved now have to say years from now? What bits of internet information might be sitting somewhere undiscovered by everyone currently hunting for the truth?

We should never assume that just because we are living an event, that we know perfectly what is happening around us.

But that's the historian in me speaking.

You should not go around and start tearing down the information because it might make you look bad. If you take it down, it just paints you as more guilty.

The Streisand Effect. You'd think that sooner or later, people would get a little more aware of it.

Yeah, kinda like how Anita already deleted her tweet asking for donations hours after her threat.

 Mechanical Crow wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
Damn this is a complicated issue. And kind of dumb on the part of Zoey Quinn. You should not go around and start tearing down the information because it might make you look bad. If you take it down, it just paints you as more guilty.

22,000 posts deleted on Reddit regarding Zoe, with the reddit Mod having a conversation with Zoe Quinn while it was happening and then posting "Aint it good being a mod" on twitter. He wasn't fired from his position because he is the senior mod. Its really about corruption, journalistic ethics and integrity and mass censorship. Matti Leshams game jam fell apart and Kotaku and the like ripped him apart and posted it over and over everywhere, Zoe Quinn was working for the game jam under him and through him under the bus, now she admits she purposely tanked it and TFYC game jam and they say nothing because the Journalists are either funding it or directly involved. And no site was aloud to talk about it.


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 LordofHats wrote:

 Mechanical Crow wrote:
Its being tracked on several websites with all the evidence being posted.

Yeah, but it's what not on the internet that interests me. One of the tragedies of the internet is that a lot of primary documentation gets deleted/not saved. What about Kotaku's internal documents? What might those say about this? What might people involved now have to say years from now? What bits of internet information might be sitting somewhere undiscovered by everyone currently hunting for the truth?

We should never assume that just because we are living an event, that we know perfectly what is happening around us.

But that's the historian in me speaking.

You should not go around and start tearing down the information because it might make you look bad. If you take it down, it just paints you as more guilty.

The Streisand Effect. You'd think that sooner or later, people would get a little more aware of it.

Yeah, kinda like how Anita already deleted her tweet asking for donations hours after her threat.

I find the whole situation is just sort of immature. I mean take freaking responsibility. The corruption will not end shesh.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

On the other hand, gamers are toxic. Proof: https://strife.com/getting-started/veteran-guide/unique-mechanics .

I'm a gamer and I'm not toxic. I know plenty of gamers and most of them aren't toxic. Do you even expect to be taken seriously when proclaiming an entire group of people who share a common interest to be toxic? It's not like we're furries

 Mechanical Crow wrote:
Yeah, kinda like how Anita already deleted her tweet asking for donations hours after her threat.

No she didn't.

Sining wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

On the other hand, gamers are toxic. Proof: https://strife.com/getting-started/veteran-guide/unique-mechanics .

I'm a gamer and I'm not toxic. I know plenty of gamers and most of them aren't toxic. Do you even expect to be taken seriously when proclaiming an entire group of people who share a common interest to be toxic? It's not like we're furries

That is very true.

There is only a vocal minority in gaming that are toxic to the community as a whole.

And then there's a lot of other people who say "well that's how we are, just deal with it" and don't ever think of maybe changing it for the better.

And then there are those who treat that vocal minority of ass hats as a stick with which to beat to death all gamers.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
And then there are those who treat that vocal minority of ass hats as a stick with which to beat to death all gamers.

Thats why I think the hardest position in the entire games industry is the community manager.

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
And then there are those who treat that vocal minority of ass hats as a stick with which to beat to death all gamers.

Thats why I think the hardest position in the entire games industry is the community manager.

That has always been the case, You could say that gammers are a passionate and dedicated bunch. Or you could be more cynical and gammers will wine about anything and everything. (I don't really mean that as a bad thing. I do love a livley debate about regenerating health. It's just that you can't argue all topics in the same style..)

 Melissia wrote:

 Mechanical Crow wrote:
Yeah, kinda like how Anita already deleted her tweet asking for donations hours after her threat.

No she didn't.

so she just starts this hoax, then tweets you can still donate money to her cause.

And then there's a lot of other people who say "well that's how we are, just deal with it" and don't ever think of maybe changing it for the better.

So let's have that conversation, it has nothing to do with video games. I wouldn't say it's lots of people who say it though, it would be just a small vocal minority.

It is being dealt with already though,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberstalking_legislation
California, Florida, Illinois, Massachusetts, Missouri, Texas, & Washington state

These states are have already passed laws against cyber harassment & bullying. 7 down 43 to go, If your state isn't on there maybe see if you can get the ball rolling or help those who have.

Trying to put the blame solely on gamers like you and me, is really taking away from the discussion we should be having.

Why do you talk as if it's assured and well accepted that it's all a hoax? I mean ya some people think that, but not everyone and it hasn't been proven that it is one. It's mostly speculation by people who are predisposed to believe something bad is going on.

nomotog wrote:
Why do you talk as if it's assured and well accepted that it's all a hoax? I mean ya some people think that, but not everyone and it hasn't been proven that it is one. It's mostly speculation by people who are predisposed to believe something bad is going on.

the 'death threats' themselves seem like random statements from different people. Who tells someone there threatening that they're 'intelligent' and 'beautiful' her tweating the threats would hamper the police investigation as she's obstructing her own case. Then asking for more money shortly afterwards seems like she want to cash in on the Zoe incident.

The whole situation around anita stinks as a hoax. I will believe it is a hoax til the police either catch someone, make a statement about the case, or acknowledge they even have an open case.

nomotog wrote:
Why do you talk as if it's assured and well accepted that it's all a hoax? I mean ya some people think that, but not everyone and it hasn't been proven that it is one. It's mostly speculation by people who are predisposed to believe something bad is going on.

Many of the threats are from one person and 12 - 17 seconds apart with perfect punctuation and grammar. Like it was copy pasted or scripted, not many people type that perfectly for quick fire responses. And she does have videos where she states she saves comments towards her for research.

 Melissia wrote:

 Mechanical Crow wrote:
Yeah, kinda like how Anita already deleted her tweet asking for donations hours after her threat.

No she didn't.

It is indeed there, I couldn't find it the other day so I assumed she deleted it, its not a stretch with the disabling of rating and comments. Thats my fault. Regardless though, she is asking for money immediately after a death threat, that seems kind of scuzzy.

sirlynchmob wrote:

nomotog wrote:
Why do you talk as if it's assured and well accepted that it's all a hoax? I mean ya some people think that, but not everyone and it hasn't been proven that it is one. It's mostly speculation by people who are predisposed to believe something bad is going on.

the 'death threats' themselves seem like random statements from different people. Who tells someone there threatening that they're 'intelligent' and 'beautiful' her tweating the threats would hamper the police investigation as she's obstructing her own case. Then asking for more money shortly afterwards seems like she want to cash in on the Zoe incident.

The whole situation around anita stinks as a hoax. I will believe it is a hoax til the police either catch someone, make a statement about the case, or acknowledge they even have an open case.

The "intelligent' "beautiful" thing is kind of a reason to be worried about them. I mean if someone just post anger and nothing else then they are angry. If someone alternates between complements and threats they are crazy and obsessed. You know stalker stuff.

I guess her tweeting the threats isn't smart, but not everyone dose the smart thing. Actually, would showing the threats hurt a investigation?

Your making an assumption on the rest of it. You can believe it to be a hoax I guess, but you have to make a leap to do that.

 Mechanical Crow wrote:

nomotog wrote:
Why do you talk as if it's assured and well accepted that it's all a hoax? I mean ya some people think that, but not everyone and it hasn't been proven that it is one. It's mostly speculation by people who are predisposed to believe something bad is going on.

Many of the threats are from one person and 12 - 17 seconds apart with perfect punctuation and grammar. Like it was copy pasted or scripted, not many people type that perfectly for quick fire responses. And she does have videos where she states she saves comments towards her for research.

Well they could just be good at spelling and grammar (no everyone is an inept as me ), or maybe the person did pre plan their threats. I mean it's not even that uncommon. People in advertising use programs to prep tweets to be tweeted out at set times. I guess you can say it is odd for someone pre plan threat tweets, but odd doesn't automatically = hoax.

What dose her saving comments mean?

-----

The thing is you both have assumptions, but not much else.

nomotog wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:

nomotog wrote:
Why do you talk as if it's assured and well accepted that it's all a hoax? I mean ya some people think that, but not everyone and it hasn't been proven that it is one. It's mostly speculation by people who are predisposed to believe something bad is going on.

the 'death threats' themselves seem like random statements from different people. Who tells someone there threatening that they're 'intelligent' and 'beautiful' her tweating the threats would hamper the police investigation as she's obstructing her own case. Then asking for more money shortly afterwards seems like she want to cash in on the Zoe incident.

The whole situation around anita stinks as a hoax. I will believe it is a hoax til the police either catch someone, make a statement about the case, or acknowledge they even have an open case.

The "intelligent' "beautiful" thing is kind of a reason to be worried about them. I mean if someone just post anger and nothing else then they are angry. If someone alternates between complements and threats they are crazy and obsessed. You know stalker stuff.

I guess her tweeting the threats isn't smart, but not everyone dose the smart thing. Actually, would showing the threats hurt a investigation?

Your making an assumption on the rest of it. You can believe it to be a hoax I guess, but you have to make a leap to do that.

I don't know stalker stuff. Never been one, never had one. It just seems odd to me.

Yes it hurts, if they're trying to catch someone making online threats, if you tell them you called the cops, they can stop and you'll never catch the person. You play along so they keep making threats, each threat makes it easier to track the person down down. If they have so much personal information on you, telling them you're going to your friends house, puts your friend and their family in danger as well. It also tells everyone else your house is empty so rob it if you'd like (it's happened before, never post your house will be empty).

The only thing the people who believe anita have, is her word on it, and they make the same leap to believe her.

Should the police catch someone, then it wasn't a hoax. The longer it drags on, the more it seems she never called the police and it's a hoax.

Well we have a screen shot of the threats. Also I think it's less of a leap to believe someone made threats to Anita. I mean it has happened before. It happens so much in regards to this topic, I wasn't even surprised. I don't think it's much of a leap to assume what happened before would happen again.

sirlynchmob wrote:
so she just starts this hoax

Just because you've managed to convince yourself that she's a horrible monster whom you are obligated to hate doesn't make anything you say about her true.

It remains a fact that your conspiracy theory is not evidence that proves your conspiracy theory.

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 Mechanical Crow wrote:
Regardless though, she is asking for money immediately after a death threat, that seems kind of scuzzy.

If she can take a gakky situation and turn it in to something that benefits her, GOOD FOR HER.

That's not "scuzzy", that's just being a rational human being.

The idea that obviously she has to suffer and not be able to turn the situation around is utter nonsense. Trolls sending death threats do not deserve this kind of bizarre, misplaced pity for not being successful at silencing her.

I don't think she's a horrible monster, nor do I hate her. Why am I obligated to hate her? I'm not obligated to hate anyone, and who are you to tell me I am. or tell me how I feel?

I think she's a liar and started a hoax, that is all.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I reviewed the evidence, I call hoax.

If it's not a hoax, find more compelling evidence

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mechanical Crow wrote:
Regardless though, she is asking for money immediately after a death threat, that seems kind of scuzzy.

If she can take a gakky situation and turn it in to something that benefits her, GOOD FOR HER.

That's not "scuzzy", that's just being a rational human being.

The idea that obviously she has to suffer and not be able to turn the situation around is utter nonsense. Trolls sending death threats do not deserve this kind of bizarre, misplaced pity for not being successful at silencing her.

Wait, warlords with children soldiers are taking a gakky situation and making it better for themselves, how is it praiseworthy to do such a thing?

When people reach adulthood usually they begin to comprehend situations and look at the situation rather than take black and white stands on a matter and make sweeping statements.

She should not try profiting of what (seems to be, in my opinion) the stupidity of others through a (what, appears to be a hoax) for profit under the guise of charity for the benefit of the target audience. She should have informed the authorities and then shut up about it. As would any normal person. We all know she gets death threats daily, she just decided (in my opinion) that her coffers got low and needed some quick cash.

I still have no idea why people defend her and worse... pay her to continue through donations (which have no recorded expenditure, safe to assume its in her pockets.) and sympathy. Of all the things 160K (plus donations) could go to, its to what amounts to be a scam. The money goes in, and never comes out. What did the money get used on, how much money comes in beyond the kickstarter and more importantly the short and long term goals of what the money is going to. Sounds like a scam to me.

A question that has yet to be answered beyond "some game servers are down", why do people still defend this women?

sirlynchmob wrote:
I don't think she's a horrible monster, nor do I hate her.

Your actions in this thread says otherwise.

In general, the people bashing Anita Sarkesian have bizarre and, frankly, hypocritical expectations. Even as you whine about Sarkeesian supposedly silencing people, you're expecting HER to be silenced by people sending her death threats. Because that's what the death threats are intended to do-- silence the person they're sent towards. To scare them in to no longer participating in the conversations they had in the past. And, apparently, you expect the death threats to succeed, and get offended when they don't and when the person continues to try with the work that they passionately believe in-- obviously that just means the threats were a hoax! ERMAGERD!

So not only do we have a thread full of conspiracy theory videos, and conspiracy theories being pushed by posters, and people posting outright lies; we also have an insane double standard, where it's a horrible thing for Sarkeesian to not have comments activated on her youtube videos, but it's also a horrible thing for her to decide that, even as she gets death threats, she'll continue on with her work. So much for caring about censorship and silencing.

I mean for feth's sake, it's one thing to disagree with her (hell, I do that myself!), it's another thing entirely to hate her, as has become increasingly apparent that many people do. The level of bile and hate shown in the three threads (including the one recently closed) that exist right now on Dakka about this-- to say nothing of the numerous threads in the past-- is just plain ridiculous. She's a human being with an opinion, and she tries to explain her opinion via videos (with debatable success). And she got paid to do so, with people giving her vastly more than she asked for, no strings attached to the money that exceeded what she asked for-- and that makes her a monster or something.

There's been almost thirty pages of this-- more than forty, adding up all three threads. And still the same blatant lies and irrational conspiracy theories are being pushed forth as if they're something other than what they are. I don't see this conversation becoming fruitful any time soon, if ever. This is too ridiculous for me to take seriously any more.

 Melissia wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:
I don't think she's a horrible monster, nor do I hate her.

Your actions in this thread says otherwise.

In general, the people bashing Anita Sarkesian have bizarre and, frankly, hypocritical expectations. Even as you whine about Sarkeesian supposedly silencing people, you're expecting HER to be silenced by people sending her death threats. Because that's what the death threats are intended to do-- silence the person they're sent towards. To scare them in to no longer participating in the conversations they had in the past. And, apparently, you expect the death threats to succeed, and get offended when they don't and when the person continues to try with the work that they passionately believe in-- obviously that just means the threats were a hoax! ERMAGERD!

So not only do we have a thread full of conspiracy theory videos, and conspiracy theories being pushed by posters, and people posting outright lies; we also have an insane double standard, where it's a horrible thing for Sarkeesian to not have comments activated on her youtube videos, but it's also a horrible thing for her to decide that, even as she gets death threats, she'll continue on with her work. So much for caring about censorship and silencing.

I mean for feth's sake, it's one thing to disagree with her (hell, I do that myself!), it's another thing entirely to hate her, as has become increasingly apparent that many people do. The level of bile and hate shown in the three threads (including the one recently closed) that exist right now on Dakka about this-- to say nothing of the numerous threads in the past-- is just plain ridiculous. She's a human being with an opinion, and she tries to explain her opinion via videos (with debatable success). And she got paid to do so, with people giving her vastly more than she asked for, no strings attached to the money that exceeded what she asked for-- and that makes her a monster or something.

There's been almost thirty pages of this-- more than forty, adding up all three threads. And still the same blatant lies and irrational conspiracy theories are being pushed forth as if they're something other than what they are. I don't see this conversation becoming fruitful any time soon, if ever. This is too ridiculous for me to take seriously any more.

Once you start generalizing you go horribly off the mark with no proof of any of the irrational theories you're pushing. you are 100% wrong in everything you just said.

I expect the death threats to succeed? WOW, you are quite the horrid person aren't you. I expect nothing of the sort.

Ok, both of you just stop. Neither of you have your hands clean, you are acting as bad as each other. Together you have helped bring this thread to a crunching, painful end. If you drag this into any other thread, expect to receive sanctions.