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I honestly think they are just random numbers the studio came up with. Or they could be some sort of "Mark" and "Class" system. Ie, XV8 is the Mk8 System, the XV15 is the Mk15 and the Riptide is Mk104

The XV8-05 could mean that its the 5th successful variation of the Mk5.

The simple reason we don't see the other suits could be that later models have directly replaced them. If anyone is familiar with the Lost Planet games, I am in particular thinking of 1 particular group of similar VS suits (huge, piloted suits like Crisis Suits).

The suit noted as the earliest version of that line of VS can simply walk and has 2 shoulder mounted guns and an exposed cockpit, literally a seat with guns on legs.
A later development of that suit gives it some sort of jetpack (not unlike the Crisis Suits) that allows it to make quick dodges of 4 metres or so to the side or forwards, or hover for a few seconds in the air, as well as adding a frontal shield that lowers when engaged.
The next suit in the line adds a pair of arms, which have a massive chainsaw attachment and a submachinegun for backup, as well as updating the jetpack that allows it to zoom along at high speeds for up to 10 seconds (covering a good distance of roughly 50metres) and about 10 seconds flight time, as well as using it as a booster for melee.
[spoiler}At the end of the game, the Player uses his Dad's suit which is incredibly advanced, and when used by the player's character, becomes capable of full flight, as well as its arms getting energy projectors that can fire plasma-like shots or become huge blades that scythe through things, and auto-kill everything except the boss[/spoiler]

I reckon the XV6 was similar to the first suit I mentioned, just an armoured chair with weapons, while the XV7 added protection and rudimentary flight, while providing everything the XV6 did, making it redundant. The XV8 added more protection and arm mounts for the weapons freeing up space for the support systems. It could fly longer and more efficiently and was better in every way to the XV7.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

I thought it was Mass or suit category followed by the role. So XV-15 is Mass class 1, stealth. XV-25 is Mass Class 2, Stealth. The XV22 designation means it's experimental. That doesn't seem to make any sense anymore though as we have the XV8-05 which doesn't have any stealth capabilities. It could work if the 5 doesn't mean stealth, but i can't see what similarities there are with the XV-15 and XV8-05. Maybe it's different because it's 05 and not just 5, which would make it an XV85. I haven't seen anywhere about it being how far along in development they are before, where did you get that? I don't have the latest codex so I'm not completely up to date with things.

"standard nomenclature has each model of battlesuit categorised by various numbers - the first denoting its size, or which mass class it belongs to, the second its evolution in the design process - the earlier the number, the more likley the model is still in prototype mode." its in the new codex.

13045273 wrote:

Yeah what I meant was we need a superheavy tank, so that it is viable against something like a baneblade. I mean, if a hammerhead or two went up against a baneblade it would be squished every single time. I think I'm correct in saying a hammerhead with Longstrike, dispods, submunitions etc stil only cones to about a 1/3 of the cost of a baneblade. We need a superheavy tank!

As for the sniper riptide, I think using a model that big as a sniper would be slightly ridiculous. However, a smaller battlesuit in the XV5 or 6 class with a sniper weapon actually seems like a pretty good suggestion - a less squishy sniper option than the pathfinder

Also congrats on 100 posts dude

Thanks man!

Well the only super heavy I've fought is an imperial knight which wasn't fun. I still think its the weapons not the units, instead of just heavy 3 or large blast we need something like a vindicare that has choices which can ignore invulnerable saves or cause multiple wounds.

Taffy17 wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

I thought it was Mass or suit category followed by the role. So XV-15 is Mass class 1, stealth. XV-25 is Mass Class 2, Stealth. The XV22 designation means it's experimental. That doesn't seem to make any sense anymore though as we have the XV8-05 which doesn't have any stealth capabilities. It could work if the 5 doesn't mean stealth, but i can't see what similarities there are with the XV-15 and XV8-05. Maybe it's different because it's 05 and not just 5, which would make it an XV85. I haven't seen anywhere about it being how far along in development they are before, where did you get that? I don't have the latest codex so I'm not completely up to date with things.

"standard nomenclature has each model of battlesuit categorised by various numbers - the first denoting its size, or which mass class it belongs to, the second its evolution in the design process - the earlier the number, the more likley the model is still in prototype mode." its in the new codex.

That makes no sense at all to me. The first part with the mass class is fine, but the second number being how far in development it is causes so many problems and just does not fit in with the suit designations we know of. How do you differentiate between different suits in that size class? What happens when two suits have the same number? Why would something like the Forgeworld XV89 have had so many iterations when it's pretty much just a normal forgeworld-style crisis suit with extra armour? How is the experimental XV107 somehow further along in development than the XV104 it's based on? The XV107 is still experimental, so how did it get the 7? Why isn't the XV25 the XV21 and instead was called the XV25 when it was first used? Why did the XV25 get through 5 evolutions before being used? How is the new XV88 broadside still the XV88 when it's had a completely new design? There are lots more problems but those are just some examples. None of it makes sense.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
That makes no sense at all to me. The first part with the mass class is fine, but the second number being how far in development it is causes so many problems and just does not fit in with the suit designations we know of. How do you differentiate between different suits in that size class? What happens when two suits have the same number? Why would something like the Forgeworld XV89 have had so many iterations when it's pretty much just a normal forgeworld-style crisis suit with extra armour? How is the experimental XV107 somehow further along in development than the XV104 it's based on? The XV107 is still experimental, so how did it get the 7? Why isn't the XV25 the XV21 and instead was called the XV25 when it was first used? Why did the XV25 get through 5 evolutions before being used? How is the new XV88 broadside still the XV88 when it's had a completely new design? There are lots more problems but those are just some examples. None of it makes sense.

No it doesn't make much sense. I assume the XV8 is considered the most developed it can be so it doesn't have a second number while the forge world ones are in different earlier stages of development. as for the XV107 its obviously just an improvement of the XV104 yet the XV104 is still in use. As for the XV25 its probably the 5th version or something but the first one to be used in the field. the XV88 is probably still called that just for game play purposes.

The main question I see is what do they do if there's 2 models of the same size/mass at the same stage of development?

I guess its like everything in most other fictional universes where if you look hard enough your always gonna find gaps, especially in a universe as huge as 40k

but we're going off topic now

Actually the 81, 84 and 89 were attempts to improve upon the 8, just like the 88 was the "heavy duty 8" variation.
The 8-02 is a further next generation variation of the 8, who tooks the failed aspects of the 89 and remade them in such way that not only the kept the benefits, it even expanded upon them, and even removed the downsides. its a perfection of the 8 series that just cost too much to field in masses.

With new broadsides though, the 88 really does make no sense, as they got nothing in common with crisis suits any more. and once they changed broadsides, they SHOULD have retconed the entire numbering system so the 88 would have been just 8, the 8X would have been 6X or something, etc.

Just a FYI to tau fluff , they don't actually have 9 or 10 in their number system , its all based off 8's

 BoomWolf wrote:
Actually the 81, 84 and 89 were attempts to improve upon the 8, just like the 88 was the "heavy duty 8" variation.
The 8-02 is a further next generation variation of the 8, who tooks the failed aspects of the 89 and remade them in such way that not only the kept the benefits, it even expanded upon them, and even removed the downsides. its a perfection of the 8 series that just cost too much to field in masses.

With new broadsides though, the 88 really does make no sense, as they got nothing in common with crisis suits any more. and once they changed broadsides, they SHOULD have retconed the entire numbering system so the 88 would have been just 8, the 8X would have been 6X or something, etc.

Frankly, the Broadside should be renamed the XV88-02, showing it as an experimental upgrade of the original XV88 with the twinlinked shoulder Railguns.

kambien wrote:
Just a FYI to tau fluff , they don't actually have 9 or 10 in their number system , its all based off 8's

Actually, 10 is not a number at all.
its 1 and 0. and both numbers exist in the tau system.

And saying tau are 8 system does not even work, as in an 8 system-there is no 8! (crazy isnt it? just like in our own 10 system there isnt a "number 10", but after 9 you get a double-digit of 1 and 0)

So if anything, they work on a 9 base system (completely possible, and makes some sense given that they got some things in trios and a 9 system in an 3 by 3 binary, with instead of "on/off" a "plus/minus/neutral")

Actually, I think the Tau numbering system is based off base 12.

Okay couple things

From a hobbying perspective there is a niche for super heavy suits. It's the one the baneblade fills. $150 dollar superheavies, I'd just like to remind that the price tags on mantas make people (namely me) weep.

As for xv numbering, digit one is size&weight second digit is role and the dash then extra digits are the sub/variant/development numbers

XV15s and XV25s should be different entries
XV88s should be 88-0X because it's just nicer with the new models
and while rail rifles are nice answers to sniper rifles, pathfinders are ill suited to them

There is no evidence for that at this moment.
And given that there are 8 tau digits on the transfer sheet means that either is an 8 system without a 0, or a 9 system with the 0 not on the sheet.
But guessing the existance of 3 missing digits is stretching it.

@BoomWolf please reread the thread title, reread the top post and then reconsider arguing this unrelated point before I report you.

@everyone else, Mantas are eye-wateringly expensive! I would love to take it as a superheavy option but it must be so rare even for regular tau Apocalypse players. I'd love to see a more viable superheavy as an option for tau. I've recently watched Apocalypse battle reports by StrikingScorpion82 on YouTube, one of which features an Imperial guard titan with baneblades, whereas tau only have a riptide and hammerheads along with crisis teams as a counter to those superheavies. I reckon a superheavy tank with a versatile range of weapon loadouts (like the various types of baneblade) would really go down well.

I would like to see the R'Varna as a super heavy low. Make it T8, 6-8 wounds and bs 7. Weapons keep the same mecanics but make it:
Cluster fire
Infantry=S6 Ap 3
Bulky/very bulky= S7 ap2
Mc and tanks= S8 ap1

With a special nova that's 1 shot per gun S8 ap1 lance (so it can shoot flyers)
Make it able to nova double shot every turn and allow it to take all and any upgrades available to a riptide.

350 points base.

I think this might actually be a decent super heavy lord of war. Thoughts?

I reckon there should be a close-combat suit, XV7 perhaps? Retractable Plasma blades seem like they would be Tau-ish...

as for a super-suit, how about this? (not mine)

No CC suits. they are plainly against the tau art of war.
MAYBE as a one-off "relic" thingy like the fusion blades, but not a suit class...

As for that megasuit, looks quite nice. XV-102 maybe? (development model riptide)

I like that suit, but I'd say 122 or even 132, it's clearly much bigger than a riptide

A tau CC suit would be one built about shooting the enemy's face off at close range rather than actually fighting in assault. See the XV-9 for an idea of what that would be like.

Funny ya'll would be talking about this, I had been designing a Tau CC suit that a fire warrior Shas'ui upgrade - though it was a mass 6 suit. It has no jet pack, as it's designed to stay with the fire warrior squad. However, it'd probably be a better idea to make it a mass 3 or 4, so it can fit in a devilfish with the rest of the squad.

Also, I could see GW eventually making up to a mass 22 suit - something on the scale of the Jaegers from Pacific Rim, and able to duke it out with titans. Screw Tau doctrine, at those sizes, you destroy your opponent in whatever way you can.

I also wouldn't mind seeing superheavy skimmers - Say, a Mako with 2 (or more) rail guns or a "linear accelerator" that is a destroyer weapon.

Just remembered, the Tau already have a method of dealing with titans and super-heavies. Its the Tiger Shark AX-1-0, A Forge World model.

It has TL heavy railguns which I assume are somehow better than normal railguns!

D Strength is a bit of an improvement, yeah. Wicked awesome blast template too.

Arnt they only D strength on a 6 now though? 6 to to pen maybe?

Just looked it up...

The fluff says Destroyer weapons are also known as titan killers, how appropriate.

Instead of rolling to wound or pen roll a D6, 1 is nothing, 2-5 it looses D3 hull points/wounds, 6 it looses D6+6 unsavable hull points/wounds.

I think that's what you need to kill a titan lol

The off chance for a 6 isn't that reliable though, most likely getting 2 hull points for a single shot. For me the price of a Tigershark, both in points and in cash just seems to be a bit lacking for a single twin-linked shot.

Really considering that Tigersharks themselves are known as a Titankiller it really doesn't have anything that makes it stand out at killing titans.

I believe there is one Apoc formation for 3 Tigersharks that gives a slight bonus against titans, but the idea is laughable.

Back in the old days when D was pretty much "you are dead", tigersharks were pretty good at busting SH, not any more though.

And the Apoc formation requires 2 or more tigersharks. but the bonus is just an extra chance to punch through void shields and keep going, so its actually doing nothing against most SH.

It was more along the lines of a single shot weapon while the majority of the other titans and SH had multiple weapons able to deal damage to heavy armored vehicles and such.

I'll freely admit that I'm not that familiar with the apocalypse formations since I reviewed them once when the book came out and decided i had nothing worth using. My favorite will always be the Skyrays overcoming a limitation that was not on non-flyers.

Taffy17 wrote:
Just looked it up...

The fluff says Destroyer weapons are also known as titan killers, how appropriate.

Instead of rolling to wound or pen roll a D6, 1 is nothing, 2-5 it looses D3 hull points/wounds, 6 it looses D6+6 unsavable hull points/wounds.

I think that's what you need to kill a titan lol

The fluff also says Longstrike headshotted a titan in his hammerhead and I for one feel that he doesn't QUITE reach that potential in a game of Apoc hahaha


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Stormonu wrote:
Funny ya'll would be talking about this, I had been designing a Tau CC suit that a fire warrior Shas'ui upgrade - though it was a mass 6 suit. It has no jet pack, as it's designed to stay with the fire warrior squad. However, it'd probably be a better idea to make it a mass 3 or 4, so it can fit in a devilfish with the rest of the squad.

Also, I could see GW eventually making up to a mass 22 suit - something on the scale of the Jaegers from Pacific Rim, and able to duke it out with titans. Screw Tau doctrine, at those sizes, you destroy your opponent in whatever way you can.

I also wouldn't mind seeing superheavy skimmers - Say, a Mako with 2 (or more) rail guns or a "linear accelerator" that is a destroyer weapon.

This is the best, most relevant and helpful post so far - thank you for contributing to the discussion!

The shas'ui upgrade definitely makes sense in terms of fitting with the fluff i.e they have earnt the right to wear this smaller class battlesuit as an upgrade; the only thing is, I don't think one suit in a single squad would really make any difference to the outcome of the squad being charged and squished. What would your proposed rules of this upgrade be? (Cost, special rules, weapons etc)

Would you consider it a good idea to develop this idea further and introduce an actual squad of these new cc battlesuits? The fluff could easily be altered/added to by saying something like commander Puretide was involved in projects aiming to develop the tau way of warfare so that they could better overcome some more troublesome enemies (like space marines, orks...) which require specialised cc units to act as a last-ditch attempt to regain the advantage in situations where their normal tactics are failing and they need to surprise the enemy.

Just like the riptide was being developed and then put to use, these cc suits are now at that stage. They could be XV42 battlesuits, so size class 4 to give them better agility in combat and development stage 2 to show that they are only being tested. The rules could reflect this by stating that only 1 unit may be used per army (...?)

I agree about the much larger class suits, because GW will naturally need to keep adding new models to attract people to the hobby and keep people interested with new ideas. The tau constantly develop their technology to be better suited to fighting their enemies and the core of their army is based around various suits, so it is entirely possible they'll have a titan suit. But I think a superheavy battlesuit in, say, the mass 22 class will not be brought out for a pretty long time.

I love that you're on board with the superheavy skimmer idea, and the name Mako would suit it perfectly - big, dangerous and of course the name of a sea creature. How many guns should be on a superheavy skimmer and what types? It could be anything from a single twin-linked heavy railgun to as many weapons as a baneblade

I've just remembered a conversation I had with the guy at my local GW after getting owned by a titan. he suggested taking the titan and converting it to make it part of my Tau army, this could have potential.

XV109. Its like they were watching the thread

 Messy0 wrote:
XV109. Its like they were watching the thread

Looks like a modified Riptide or R'varna. Some sort of Ion Accelerator and triple flamer.

Once again proving that the "official" numbering system is impossible.

in a base-8 system, there is no 9. unless the numbers we are shown are not even base 8 but the transulation of base 8 to base 10, and in that case the 109 is actually 155

Other conversions:
15->17
25->31
8->10
81->121
84->124
88->130
89->131
9->11
104->150
107->153
Unfortunately these does not make any more sense. GW can you please shake off the numbering system, or at least remake it to actually follow a system of any sort? right now the numbers are pretty random...

As for the 109, while the triple flamer thingy is quite obvius to be a template weapon of sorts, probably a heavy 3 heavy flamer with torrent, anyone locates anything that resembles the other gun?
I SUSPECT its going to be fusion related, as its the other "you wonna get close" weapon type, and the 109 is like the hazard of riptides by looks of it, just like the 107 was the broadside.