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Hey guys, so I'm getting my hands on some Helbrutes and I wanted to know the best bet to use em. Do they have deepstrike?

There is a formation you can use for that. Get the data slate . Also I like missiles and autocannons

I like to use their formation with cultists to go after Centurions. The cover save helps them get there to punch them apart, and if they try to thin the cultist herd, grav weapons are pitiful against t-shirt-wearing, cheap chaos loons.

There is a dataslate purchasable fromt eh black library digital additions.
This gives you three formations which make hellbrutes much better.

and by better I mean usable at all.
OK its not that they are terrible, its just maulerfiends and forgefiends do everything a hellbrute does better.

My preference is cheap and cheerful. multimelta ccw if in the deepstriking formations, add a missile launcher if you are herding cultists.

In the five brute formation vehicle unit- belakor and invisibility is .. compulsory i would say.

Murderpack for life.

I like the different formation ideas, but I really don't want to buy dataslates. I'm not sure what purpose they serve, other than moneygrabs

Captyn_Bob wrote:
There is a dataslate purchasable fromt eh black library digital additions.
This gives you three formations which make hellbrutes much better.

and by better I mean usable at all.
OK its not that they are terrible, its just maulerfiends and forgefiends do everything a hellbrute does better.

My preference is cheap and cheerful. multimelta ccw if in the deepstriking formations, add a missile launcher if you are herding cultists.

In the five brute formation vehicle unit- belakor and invisibility is .. compulsory i would say.

1 flaw, Hellbrutes are Elites and your Maulerfiends are Heavy Supports which means you can have the best of both worlds! (And who in their right minds use Forgefiends these days? lol)

I cant agree that Hellbrutes are outclasses by any means though, to a Maulerfiend (We don't discuss the idea of a Daemonic Vehicle trying to shoot guns and how bad they are at doing it lol) Hellbrutes are (Thankfully) WS and BS 4. Which means they are amazing as an elite source of Armor that not only has hilarious Rage rules, and don't get pummeled by enemy loyalist WS4 Dreads, but the formations mean you literally crap on your opponents if you know how to abuse them (And not even unfairly, just flat out knowing what to do and when) These things becomes monstrous for their costs. I mean, 200 points nets you a Hellbrute with a Multi Melta and 20 Cultists (2x10) That's 20 free wounds to soak up, and that Hellbrute can waltz right up to w/e it wants and annihilate it.

As the guys said, the Hellbrute is outclassed except if you use the dataslate formations. 20 raging cultists and a covered multimelta dread for that few points is strong and fun to play.
But without the blacklibrary tax, it is very likely that the dread will die quickly and never ever win back its points.

 jreilly89 wrote:
I like the different formation ideas, but I really don't want to buy dataslates. I'm not sure what purpose they serve, other than moneygrabs

Dataslate work on your MacBook and iPads and stuff. This dataslate is not very expensive. It was $10-$15

My son used a formation on me once. 5 helbrutes, all with TL Lascannon and Missles. If you glance or pen one of them they get to Choose the effect on the crazed table. So my son kept pumping out double shots.

Johnnytorrance wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
I like the different formation ideas, but I really don't want to buy dataslates. I'm not sure what purpose they serve, other than moneygrabs

Dataslate work on your MacBook and iPads and stuff. This dataslate is not very expensive. It was $10-$15

My son used a formation on me once. 5 helbrutes, all with TL Lascannon and Missles. If you glance or pen one of them they get to Choose the effect on the crazed table. So my son kept pumping out double shots.

$10-15 for a formation that gives out arbitrary additional rules? YMMV I suppose...

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

Johnnytorrance wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
I like the different formation ideas, but I really don't want to buy dataslates. I'm not sure what purpose they serve, other than moneygrabs

Dataslate work on your MacBook and iPads and stuff. This dataslate is not very expensive. It was $10-$15

My son used a formation on me once. 5 helbrutes, all with TL Lascannon and Missles. If you glance or pen one of them they get to Choose the effect on the crazed table. So my son kept pumping out double shots.

$10-15 for a formation that gives out arbitrary additional rules? YMMV I suppose...

The OP wanted to know some effective ways to use a Helbrute. Mind you, there are 3 formations with some decent rules. Your comment didn't help at all.

Yo a headsup, the Hellbrute Dataslate is a mere $5. Definitely worth every penny and while normally I'd be annoyed at having to pay to make codex options useful you gotta keep in mind that this thing was released like a year and a half or so after the Chaos dex came out.

Not to mention it's one of the few dataslates where literally every formation is useful. Some would say the Murderpack isn't so hot but the second you see (or rather don't see) 5 invisible walkers rampaging downfield... yeah.

When I tried out the Helcult formation for the first time I had a screen of min-sized cultist squads to act as speed bumps, my brother was less than pleased when I told him the 2 cultists I had left after his shooting were fearless and were gonna get in the way of his charge. Not to mention the very pissed off Helbrute lurking behind them ready for the countercharge.

That being said yeah, I think in general the ole' MM+Pfist combo is the way to go. Works great when you DS em w/ the Mayhem formation and pretty alright if you have them walking downfield to escort some rhinos. Maybe not optimal but you get nice armor saturation while still being able to blow up a Land Raider or punch an MC.

They're av 12, which makes them pretty much immune to anything but actual antiarmor units. In my experience, they can pour a lot of pain out at distance, then tangle things up in melee. Also, they were errata'ed to be 100 points, not 105. I find them a nice platform for multimeltas and heavy flamers. I run them screened by a squad of infantry, so things like lascannons have a harder time hitting them. They're really a jack of all trades, master of none sort of unit. A lot of people on dakka hate dreadnoughts of any flavor, but for a small amount of points you can bring a high customizable unit with decent armor and some really heavy weaponry, while remaining a really threat in assault. People NEVER like being assaulted by a dread of any flavor. Also, you can fit a heavy flamer onto the powerfist of the dark vengeance helbrute by saying the mouth in the pfist is a heavy flamer. That will help out when it comes time to close in and slaughter. In low point games a dreadnought is really worth its weight, due to flexibility and low point cost.

Take a 5 Man squad w/ 4 Autocannons , One Champion w/ Dual Powerfists and Heavy Flamers.

550 Points and it can and will destroy anything in the game. Especially if you get something crazy on them like Invisibility.

It's the best Dataslate Available to Chaos Daemons because you'll have easy access to Divination for Forewarning or Invisibility/ Shrouding. Plus you can take 3 Soul Grinders.

Cheap & Cheerful is definitely the way to run helbrutes.
That said, having one or two kicking around your backfield with Missile Launcher/Twin-Linked Lascannon can be surprisingly effective. And at 135pts they're not all that pricey.

Add another vote for the Dataslate. Best 5$ I've ever paid GW/Black Library in the history of my Warhammer experience. As the above posters have pointed out every formation in the dataslate is useful if applied correctly, and they make an awesome model and new kit fill in several niches CSM needed filled.

Helcult makes two nice speed bumps or tarpits while giving your shooty Helbrute a nice cover save, and adds much to your backfield scoring potential. Never been displeased with its performance on-table.

Mayhem Pack, my personal favourite, is the delivery strategy we've been crying for since we realized we left our drop pods behind when we embraced Chaos. And its special rules are quite the win. Another formation I've never been dissatisfied with.

Last but not least the Helfist Murderpack. For when you positively absolutely need to put down anything you want to put down, while winning awards for most hilariously named anything ever of ever.
Imperial Knight? Meet 5 Multi-Meltas with 5 Powerfists behind 'em.
Horde army? Meet 5 heavy flamers on AV12 models that can pulp your warlord in a CC challenge with Powerfists that strike on initiative.
Armour wall? You mean look at all the S7 or 8 I brought to play!

You can also do funny gak with the Murderpack like, choose the Shoot twice then leave the guy there since he's immobilized.He then becomes a seperate unit all together. Kind of funny.


1 Just base murderpack with a couple of H. Flamers and just multimeltas and maybe some Duel Powerfist is pretty nice and cheap.

It also allows you to spam the gak out of Walkers, considering you can take 3 more Mauler Fiends and 3 more Shooty Helbrutes.

So you can have 11 Walkers in your army if you wanted. 3 of them Mauler Fiends, 3 of the Autocannon and Missile Launcher Helbrutes, then the formation. Take some Chaos Cultist then some Nurgle Bikers w/ Chaos Sorcerers rolling for Invisibility.

I've tried out plazmacannon + missile launcher helbrute. Was quite fun but they're not really good out of the dataslate.

Munga wrote:
They're av 12, which makes them pretty much immune to anything but actual antiarmor units. In my experience, they can pour a lot of pain out at distance, then tangle things up in melee. Also, they were errata'ed to be 100 points, not 105. I find them a nice platform for multimeltas and heavy flamers. I run them screened by a squad of infantry, so things like lascannons have a harder time hitting them. They're really a jack of all trades, master of none sort of unit. A lot of people on dakka hate dreadnoughts of any flavor, but for a small amount of points you can bring a high customizable unit with decent armor and some really heavy weaponry, while remaining a really threat in assault. People NEVER like being assaulted by a dread of any flavor. Also, you can fit a heavy flamer onto the powerfist of the dark vengeance helbrute by saying the mouth in the pfist is a heavy flamer. That will help out when it comes time to close in and slaughter. In low point games a dreadnought is really worth its weight, due to flexibility and low point cost.

The problem is at AV12 they are simply mass S6+ bait, HP drained in one turned and dead, they are also rather poor in melee as well due to only A2 base, and they really really won't get into melee against a competent opponent.

Munga wrote:
Also, you can fit a heavy flamer onto the powerfist of the dark vengeance helbrute by saying the mouth in the pfist is a heavy flamer. That will help out when it comes time to close in and slaughter.

Awesome. Have you met anyone who would care about that? I don't really play any WYSIWYG

jreilly89 I know I've never met anyone who cared about counting the mouth as a flamer. And if you're worried about it, it shouldn't take more than 5 minutes to carve something approximating the nozzle of a flamer weapon and glue it in to the hole in the hand/mouth. Presto.

It's chaos. I'd be quite happy to accept the 'maw' as breathing fire.

I'd probably be more persnickety about counting it as a combi-bolter, but breathing fire out of a toothed maw in your hand is actually quite logical by daemon engine standards...

I agree that hellbrutes are easy to kill with light anti-armour weapons - stuff like scatter lasers, autocannons and missile pods. But I'd say this: if you're going to use them, use a lot of them.

I'm actually building a pure helbrute formation army at the moment, consisting of nothing but hellbrutes and helcult cultists.... I think it's about a dozen helbrutes in 1500 points.

Also; if taking a murderpack, find the points for a power scourge for the champion. That weapon is truly ridiculous when the wielder is capable of issuing challenges.

Yeah the Powerscourge is amazing on the Champion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also remember H. Plasma is good for them as a get's hot let's them get a crazed counter and then you get to pick to Double Shot it, the problem is there's not real way to give them it will not die.

Genius with the gets hot = double shot, totally gonna steal that.
Yeah they can't get IWND, but for the price of one helbrute you can fit in a warpsmith. Gets you an awesome-tastic model that does better than IWND.

locarno24 what's that list look like?

I'm planning on fielding a 1000pt helcult list for my next local little tourney.

HQ - Chaos Lord, PSword (or axe?), SoC

Troops - 10 Cultists
10 Cultists

Elite - Helbrute, MLauncher, TL-Las
Helbrute, MLauncher, TL-Las

Formation - Helcult
Helbrute, MLauncher, TL-Las
35 Cultists, 29 autoguns, 3 flamers
35 Cultists, 31 autoguns, 3 heavy stubbers

Yeah I'm not a huge fan of Warp Smiths but I guess in that instance having one around would be good, but he can't join them so he'd be on his lonesome, you'd have to give him a mark and put him on a bike.

Nurgle bike smith!
...Too bad you can't. Warpsmiths can't get Special Issue Wargear, only Chaos Rewards. And they aren't even allowed to take mounts.

 Laughingcarp wrote:
Genius with the gets hot = double shot, totally gonna steal that.
Yeah they can't get IWND, but for the price of one helbrute you can fit in a warpsmith. Gets you an awesome-tastic model that does better than IWND.

locarno24 what's that list look like?

Indeed, fiendish idea!

Helbrute Murderpack Formation Detachment (Primary Detachment) - 580 Points

5 Helbrutes[/b
]~ Plasma Cannon & Power Scourge (Helbrute Champion)
~ Multimelta, Power Fist & Heavy Flamer (Helbrutes)

[b]Helbrute Mayhem Pack Formation Detachment - 300 Points

Helbrute
~ Multimelta & Power Fist
Helbrute
~ Multimelta & Power Fist
Helbrute
~ Multimelta & Power Fist

Helbrute Mayhem Pack Formation Detachment - 300 Points

Helbrute
~ Multimelta & Power Fist
Helbrute
~ Multimelta & Power Fist
Helbrute
~ Multimelta & Power Fist

Helcult Formation Detachment - 319 Points

Helbrute
~ Multimelta & Power Fist
Cultists
~20 Cultists
~2 Flamers
Cultists
~20 Cultists
~2 Heavy Stubbers
~Shotgun
~Autoguns

Total - 1500 points

I must admit just taking three murderpacks is tempting and throwing fifteen AV12 walkers at the enemy, or maxing out the helcults and flooding the board with fearless cultists....

5 x Helcult Formation Detachment - 300 Points

Helbrute
~ Multimelta & Power Fist
Cultists
~20 Cultists
Cultists
~20 Cultists
~Autoguns

Thought about maxing out on Helcults, too much fun.

I'm surprised you've kept MMs on the Murderpack, thought you'd go for something longer range. I feel like 4 Heavy Flamers is overkill, especially considering you'd have to try cluster your Helbrutes to fire them all at one squad.
Unless you're trying to split up the Murderpack via immobilized Fire Frenzy results.
Thoughts?

So your Murderpack Champ is your warlord hey? Just had the thought that could be so much fun, especially with LoS lol.

@ OP: I've had another game with the Mayhem Pack Helbrute formation from the dataslate, and another success. Took out two GK Psyfleman dreads (this was just before the new codex) and kicked some serious Paladin butt.

Another thought is to run them plain and simple, if you still are against formations. Start at the edge of you DZ, walk 'em up while firing. Eventually they'll reach your opponent's models and if you're running Ranged weapon/Fist or Scourge then they'll be able to wreak havoc.
Since they're so cheap @ 100pts your opponent is generally loathe to waste nice anti-armour weapons fire at them, and even if they do if the Helbrute doesn't die the crazed table tends to make it more dangerous. It's a win-win.
The key is armour saturation.

Anyone have ideas how to properly and comfortably kit out a Helfist Murderpack?
I'm hoping to run one soon, but don't know what to give 'em.
Check out what I'm trying to do here:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/614014.page#7181980

This is an unbound army, right ?

GW gold: please pay money to use arbitrary formations that cannot be used unless your opponent agrees to it, and likely never in a tournament.


If they were free, there might still be an argument, but this is just fethed up.


Does the murderpack count as one squadron of vehicles ?

If that's the case, I can probably bust it in one turn with 15 meltas.
After all you've got to roll the dice one at a time so it's explodes, next, explodes, next, imo,weapon destroyed, imo, next, explodes, next, explodes, thanks for paying the melta tax.

For the cultist/hellbrute combo, do the cultist and helbrutes count as part of the same unit ? If that's the case, you've got something interesting there.

I'll still charge it with my WK and kill it before it strikes, but you can daresay it'll withstand any kind of shooting.

Hollismason wrote:
Yeah the Powerscourge is amazing on the Champion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also remember H. Plasma is good for them as a get's hot let's them get a crazed counter and then you get to pick to Double Shot it, the problem is there's not real way to give them it will not die.

How well has that worked out for you though? The crazed result requires they shoot at the nearest unit if they can't shoot at the one who caused the hull point loss. I find I hate having my targets chosen for me.