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Hi guys,

So I played a 1000 point game against my mate yesterday. I won by just one VP.

On the topic of expanding my force to 1500 points, he suggested that I needed more heavy weapons. I already have two transport-oriented battlewagons, so I will only have one heavy support slot left. So to keep to the Evil Sunz theme, I thought the following might be an idea:

Big Mek with shokk attack gun, 'eavy armour, cybork body, gitfinda and da fixer upperz - 54 points.

10 tankbustas - 130 points.

Looted wagon with reinforced ram, three rokkit launchaz and a killcannon - 87 points.

The idea is that the Big Mek and tankbustas all ride inside the wagon and unleash an unholy amount of firepower - two ordinance blasts (one of which is bs3) and 13 rokkits per turn. I erred on the side of the shokk attack gun rather than the kustom force field as this will mean I have plenty of dakka left even if the wagon gets taken out, which is likely even with the force field due to its crap armour.

Any thoughts? Would I be better off getting a battlewagon with a killcannon instead?

Firstly, a lot of folks on here are going to tell you not to even waste your time with killcannons. They're pretty much right.

You have a lot of wargear that cancels each other out.

Doesn't the killcannon reduce the transport capacity? You won't fit all those guys in there. And you can't fire it if you get the 'don't press dat' result or just want to move at cruizin speed or flat-out. The rokkit launchas will always be snap firing, too, all because of the ordinance rules.

The Big Mek can either fire the SAG or use the fixer uppers, not both. He also can't fire ordinance if he (or his transport) moves at all.

Putting all these things together, you can go two or three ways with what you have:
1. Keep the LW with rokkits and Killcannon. Buy a DT trukk for the tankbustas, because they want to get close anyway with their meltabombs and tankhammers. Then put the SAG somewhere with a good vantage, maybe in cover. He is actually much safer using the SAG's superlong range than he is inside a vehicle.

2. Keep the LW as a slightly-heavier-than-trukk transport. It is at least immune to bolter fire, so that's something. But in that case, leave the killcannon out entirely.

3. Go with the Battlewagon instead. If you can find the points, they are much better than Looted Wagons for obvious reasons. Then go with option 1 or 2 above, but then you have a unified wall of AV14. Very scary.

There could be more angles to this, but these should give you some options to test out. Let us know how it goes!

Cheers for the response.

SkrawnyNob wrote:Firstly, a lot of folks on here are going to tell you not to even waste your time with killcannons. They're pretty much right.

My understanding was that they were not considered worthwhile on battlewagons because of the reduction in transport capacity and the fact that you can't move 12" and fire the killcannon. I would have thought it was still a decent option on a shooty looted wagon.

You have a lot of wargear that cancels each other out.

Doesn't the killcannon reduce the transport capacity? You won't fit all those guys in there. And you can't fire it if you get the 'don't press dat' result or just want to move at cruizin speed or flat-out. The rokkit launchas will always be snap firing, too, all because of the ordinance rules.

The Big Mek can either fire the SAG or use the fixer uppers, not both. He also can't fire ordinance if he (or his transport) moves at all.

I believe the reduction in transport capacity only applies to battlewagons. But fair point about snap firing the rokkits.

Putting all these things together, you can go two or three ways with what you have:
1. Keep the LW with rokkits and Killcannon. Buy a DT trukk for the tankbustas, because they want to get close anyway with their meltabombs and tankhammers. Then put the SAG somewhere with a good vantage, maybe in cover. He is actually much safer using the SAG's superlong range than he is inside a vehicle.

2. Keep the LW as a slightly-heavier-than-trukk transport. It is at least immune to bolter fire, so that's something. But in that case, leave the killcannon out entirely.

3. Go with the Battlewagon instead. If you can find the points, they are much better than Looted Wagons for obvious reasons. Then go with option 1 or 2 above, but then you have a unified wall of AV14. Very scary.

There could be more angles to this, but these should give you some options to test out. Let us know how it goes!

To be honest my original plan (based on common advice on here) was to get another battlewagon full of shoota boyz. However, my opponent yesterday thought I needed more heavy firepower rather than more boyz, and I did find that my BWs weren't doing much once their boyz got out. I also liked the idea of a bit more variety, I guess. Should I just go for the third BW?

I love my looted wagon with the killkannon. Give it big shootas though as you might actually hit something with it. Last game I camped it in a ruin and blasted stuff all game. It had the 'ard case, 2 big shootas, ram, and killkannon and 10 Boyz inside. When he finally wrecked it in close combat (turn 5) the boyz inside piled out ready for combat.

 Krusha wrote:
My understanding was that they were not considered worthwhile on battlewagons because of the reduction in transport capacity and the fact that you can't move 12" and fire the killcannon. I would have thought it was still a decent option on a shooty looted wagon.

First of all, it's an ordnance weapons, so whenever you fire it, it will force all other weapons to snap-fire. Second, it's not really a great gun. S7 doesn't wound T6 MCs on a 2+, can't instant death multi-wound models and when it scatters, it will usually completely miss (average scatter of 5"). The only thing it really can do well is kill MEQ, you aren't exactly guaranteed to meet them every game since it can neither harm bikes nor terminators. There is little reason to actually buy it considering the price tag attached.

To be honest my original plan (based on common advice on here) was to get another battlewagon full of shoota boyz. However, my opponent yesterday thought I needed more heavy firepower rather than more boyz, and I did find that my BWs weren't doing much once their boyz got out. I also liked the idea of a bit more variety, I guess. Should I just go for the third BW?

Probably. The ability of an army to kill battlewagon is usually constant, if you bring more battlewagons, more are going to survive. Battlewagons can do quite a lot even without a gun, mainly tank-shocking and ramming stuff for S9 with their temporary AV16 front. If you want your BWs to be able to shoot something after they've done their job, put a kannon on them, they can still fire the blast after moving 6" or snap-shot the solid shot at full speed. Ironically, kannons for all your three battlewagons would be as much as a single kill kannon.

If you're lacking heavy firepower, my advice would be getting a unit of tank-bustaz for your third battlewagon. They work like a charm for me and no vehicle, monstrous creature or marine is safe from them. Just use all the rokkit bits from your boyz, nobz and loota/burna sprues and build yourself some. The original models are nice, but not required.

Big gunz are the ultimate long-ranged support. Decent, cheap and durable.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Looted wagon with a killkannon ain't that bad but It still costs like 3 rokkit buggies.

Personally i pack a full squad of artillery - lobbas or KMK and a squadron of buggies. They all will fit into your speed freak theme. Iirc new dex states that speed freaks can transport big gunz and drop them on the move along with frightened grots...or stuff like that so, they won't contradict.

How about 15 tankbustas in a battlewagon with 4 rokkit launchas and a kannon?

 Krusha wrote:
How about 15 tankbustas in a battlewagon with 4 rokkit launchas and a kannon?

with a rokkit mek and combi-rokkit big mek?

Don't do combi-rokkits.

Funny enough a mek with a rokkit also benefits from the tank-hunter special rule when joined to a unit of tank-bustaz. While expensive, this allows you to bump their numbers to 17, or 18 when using the ork detachment.

I think my decision has been made!

 Krusha wrote:
How about 15 tankbustas in a battlewagon with 4 rokkit launchas and a kannon?

YUSSS