Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

With the special rules and ability he brings to the table he WOULD be an auto take, except for that massive points cost.... Is he worth it?

No. He's a combat character in a non-combat book. Who also happens to be your general AND BSB all it takes is one failed leadership test and he dies.

Orks is a non-combat book?

Sadly, Orks work better as a (warmachine) gunline with one or two close combat blocks to anchor the line
That said, in a environment that isn't super-competitive, they work fine as a mixed / CC-oriented army

The main issue with Gorbad is that he's super expensive and super squishy for such a price

This is harry potter wars era man. If he does't shoot lightning bolts it not worth the points.

OgreChubbs wrote:
This is harry potter wars era man. If he does't shoot lightning bolts it not worth the points.

Stop that. Seriously. Yes, magic is powerful, but it isn't the be all and end all. I've played non-magic lists and done really well. Magic is powerful, but you can play around that and neutralise it.

He has no ward (and not much armor/toughness and wounds) and is general and BSB. I don't mind his point value but he really needs a ward.

Leadership is critical for O&G. Having an Ld10 bubble of 18", with 18" of re-rolls, and bonuses on the animosity table it totally worth it.
I have run him with great success.
While he might be a combat character, I don't run him that way. I run him as the leadership anchor that he is, and let his total bad-ass profile protect him from quick moving wizard/bsb killing units.

I mean, he's S5, Init 5, T5 and LD10. That makes him as good as you can get vs any stat-testing spell.
He gets 4 S6 attacks, with ASF, multiple wounds D3 and no armor save (S5 after the 1st round). That makes him a total beast against quick moving stuff that otherwise would kill my characters.

I haven't tried him in a big un army, but if I had another 100 orcs, I'd give that a try.

-Matt

OgreChubbs wrote:
This is harry potter wars era man. If he does't shoot lightning bolts it not worth the points.

Nice knowing my whole army isn't worthwhile.

Question: Why do O&G work better as a gunline?

pm713 wrote:

OgreChubbs wrote:
This is harry potter wars era man. If he does't shoot lightning bolts it not worth the points.

Nice knowing my whole army isn't worthwhile.

Question: Why do O&G work better as a gunline?

They don't hit hard enough or often enough in combat, and can't take a punch. They are slow, and have crap for leadership, and have a special rule making them hard to control on the table.
On the other hand, the gunline can park 10 warmachines, backed fanatics to squish anything that gets though.
On the high strength firepower scale, they are up near the top. No other army has anything like fanatics to protect the machines.
Seriously, release the fanatic through the T7 machine (you only wound on 6's), and have it bounce into the offending unit. More often than not, the machine is unaffected, while fist fulls of enemies die.

-Matt

 HawaiiMatt wrote:
Leadership is critical for O&G. Having an Ld10 bubble of 18", with 18" of re-rolls, and bonuses on the animosity table it totally worth it.

But he dies and you have nothing. You still have to get him near combat to make use of his LD/bubble/reroll. He has nothing except T5, armor, 3 wounds for 375. If you're saying he's so valuable he's worth that 1 more LD and 6" range, you could easily buy almost that on normal heroes and be twice as durable and still have a ton of points leftover.

You say you don't run him as a combat hero, but you're spending about an extra 100pts on his combat abilities.

 DukeRustfield wrote:

 HawaiiMatt wrote:
Leadership is critical for O&G. Having an Ld10 bubble of 18", with 18" of re-rolls, and bonuses on the animosity table it totally worth it.

But he dies and you have nothing. You still have to get him near combat to make use of his LD/bubble/reroll. He has nothing except T5, armor, 3 wounds for 375. If you're saying he's so valuable he's worth that 1 more LD and 6" range, you could easily buy almost that on normal heroes and be twice as durable and still have a ton of points leftover.

You say you don't run him as a combat hero, but you're spending about an extra 100pts on his combat abilities.

That extra 6" range more than doubles the table area covered. (1017 square inches vs 452 square inches).
Yes, I'll spend 100 points for more than double the area of Ld10, and more than double the area of re-rolls.
Along with adding +1 to +3 on animosity checks, (meaning you'll never get the #1 result that takes 2 units out for a turn).

It's very hard to get an O&G army into a 12" bubble. It is doable with 18".

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

pm713 wrote:

OgreChubbs wrote:
This is harry potter wars era man. If he does't shoot lightning bolts it not worth the points.

Nice knowing my whole army isn't worthwhile.

Question: Why do O&G work better as a gunline?

They don't hit hard enough or often enough in combat, and can't take a punch. They are slow, and have crap for leadership, and have a special rule making them hard to control on the table.
On the other hand, the gunline can park 10 warmachines, backed fanatics to squish anything that gets though.
On the high strength firepower scale, they are up near the top. No other army has anything like fanatics to protect the machines.
Seriously, release the fanatic through the T7 machine (you only wound on 6's), and have it bounce into the offending unit. More often than not, the machine is unaffected, while fist fulls of enemies die.

-Matt

I see. But it does seem a bit odd.

I think anyone who is both the bsb and the warlord isn't worth it. Too many eggs in one basket. Maybe if he provided rerolls without being a bsb then I would take him. One bad roll and he will spontaneously combust.

pm713 wrote:

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

pm713 wrote:

OgreChubbs wrote:
This is harry potter wars era man. If he does't shoot lightning bolts it not worth the points.

Nice knowing my whole army isn't worthwhile.

Question: Why do O&G work better as a gunline?

They don't hit hard enough or often enough in combat, and can't take a punch. They are slow, and have crap for leadership, and have a special rule making them hard to control on the table.
On the other hand, the gunline can park 10 warmachines, backed fanatics to squish anything that gets though.
On the high strength firepower scale, they are up near the top. No other army has anything like fanatics to protect the machines.
Seriously, release the fanatic through the T7 machine (you only wound on 6's), and have it bounce into the offending unit. More often than not, the machine is unaffected, while fist fulls of enemies die.

-Matt

I see. But it does seem a bit odd.

It's my biggest disappointment with the army; (immediately followed by the spells).
IMO, they should take away the 2 for 1 on bolt throwers, and make doom diver a 5 point upgrade to stone thrower. That would cut warmachines from 10 to 5.
Then, make the army actually viable in combat. A special rule like "Go Down Swinging", every time an orc is killed in combat, it makes 1 last attack before it is removed. Give goblins the effect of sneaky stabbin anytime they are fighting to the flank/rear (ie, they re-roll to hit and wound when flanking). After all, these units at WS3 or WS2, and S3. Getting a bit of boost isn't going to make them godly, just suck less.
And please, make Boar Riders useful. Hands down worst cav in the game.

Boar riders seem pretty good... Thick skin +2 armor gets it up to 3+ with shields

Well...they're cheap. Most cavalry is mega armor. Like 1+ or 2+. Boars got T4 but the problem is, if something can punch through their armor, it will not only take that down, but make their higher T of no value.

Like an Empire knight with it's 1+ armor will be a 4+/6+ save and 2+ to wound vs. something S6. A boarboy will be 6+/6+ and 2+ to wound.

It's cheaper, than an empire knight, but they also have animosity and such.

I don't know them that well, honestly. That's just from the cuff as I'm waiting for my pizza.

Gorbad can work.

Some comments.

1. O&G gunlines are great but not essential, you cna make a very nice horde build or balanced list.

2. Gorbad has a nice axe but of you like his combat stats take Grimgor, he is even option better in melee as he is on foot so he gets better Look Out Sir and has a 1+/5++ and Da Immortulz are worth it.

3. Combo general BSB's can work well they save on a character. A naked Orc warboss and a naked bsb orc are 195pts. So you are paying 180pts for what Gorbad actually brings to the table.
Which is:
nice axe - ASF and multiple wounds on S6/5 no armour save, this murders anything without a ward save. But is a secondary consideration because of other things below.
nice pig - actually a liability because you will need more pigs to give him look out sir, if you are bunkering him you could take spider riders instead though. I would go for more pigs though for theme, Ironically I would be careful about tooling them up and not use Big'Uns, the +4pts is too much. You need them for artillery soak only and you have just made your spider riders ld10 if you take them for that purpose.
18" Ld10 bubble - without having to have a monster, this is GOOD. It also adds 18" to BSB also, this is EXCELLENT. AFAIK it might even be unique to have all that.
Da Great Leader - This has advantages, first so long as Gorbad is on the field you wont take wounds from animosity unless a Blork is involved. SEcond if you wants a melee army youi get increased chance of extra movement, This is a mixed blessing as it means you can charge your goblin archers extra far forwards also.
Orcs are da best - Dis is true, also unlimited Big'Uns is a good bonus. The Big'Un upgrade is worth the points you pay.

Verdict: Don't bother for gun line O&G, but a good option for melee horde O&G as he is a solid leader. So pick your army, then decided if Gorbad is for you.

It seems like he could work for a gunline... Extends his leadership and animosity queller around while sitting in a unit of boar boyz. If they get close to his unit, he charges in and butchers it (using the boar boy boss as a challenge taker)

 Orlanth wrote:

2. Gorbad has a nice axe but of you like his combat stats take Grimgor, he is even option better in melee as he is on foot so he gets better Look Out Sir and has a 1+/5++ and Da Immortulz are worth it.

3. Combo general BSB's can work well they save on a character. A naked Orc warboss and a naked bsb orc are 195pts. So you are paying 180pts for what Gorbad actually brings to the table.
Which is:
nice axe - ASF and multiple wounds on S6/5 no armour save, this murders anything without a ward save. But is a secondary consideration because of other things below.
nice pig - actually a liability because you will need more pigs to give him look out sir, .

2) Gorbad and Grimgor get the same 2+ look out. Gorbad just needs to be in a cav unit.
3) Grimgor is good, but I'd rather have the multiple wounds and no armor save, over the S7. S7 is save -4. Against a 1+, that's a 5 up save. Swift strider is really nice too, so is a 14" march. Grimgor get pasted by monsters, Gorbad Pastes monsters.

-Matt

2) The point is you dont need a cav unit with Grimgor, in fact cant take one, which is better for a front line unit. Both chars cost enough to not have to spend extra just to field artillery soak.

3) Gorbad is tougher overall, but Grimgor has extra WS and A, Hate and the 5++ which is better for character crunching. Monsters are not a problem, they have to face the silly numbers of stupidly underpriced gobbo bolt throwers most players buy fro spare change in their points.

Gorbad on the other hand is real nasty but he is restricted in his positioning. This is the real issue, Gorbad has a better weapon but you have to take his pig, and so must have a cavalry retinue to be effective. This causes problems when trying to use cavalry as a line rather than attack unit, you get a big cumbersome block which costs a fortune and you cant afford to charge about with because you need the bubble. A large unit of Blorks on the other hand fits in with an orc line perfectly.

The only way around is to take token cavalry, too risky, or take Gorbad with infantry for reduces look out, which is risky again. Gorbad is also a very tall model, so he loses out with the LOS meta, you just cant hide him from cannon snipe, Gnarla is as tall as many monsters,

You all forget one thing. All OnG combat characters are a waste.

 thedarkavenger wrote:
You all forget one thing. All OnG combat characters are a waste.

Even grimgor? He's pretty hard core.

 Waaagh 18 wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:
You all forget one thing. All OnG combat characters are a waste.

Even grimgor? He's pretty hard core.

Not even grimgor. Combat orcs bleed so much combat res, that you can have 10 grimgors and you'll still lose combat.

 Orlanth wrote:
2) The point is you dont need a cav unit with Grimgor, in fact cant take one, which is better for a front line unit. Both chars cost enough to not have to spend extra just to field artillery soak.

3) Gorbad is tougher overall, but Grimgor has extra WS and A, Hate and the 5++ which is better for character crunching. Monsters are not a problem, they have to face the silly numbers of stupidly underpriced gobbo bolt throwers most players buy fro spare change in their points.

Gorbad on the other hand is real nasty but he is restricted in his positioning. This is the real issue, Gorbad has a better weapon but you have to take his pig, and so must have a cavalry retinue to be effective. This causes problems when trying to use cavalry as a line rather than attack unit, you get a big cumbersome block which costs a fortune and you cant afford to charge about with because you need the bubble. A large unit of Blorks on the other hand fits in with an orc line perfectly.

The only way around is to take token cavalry, too risky, or take Gorbad with infantry for reduces look out, which is risky again. Gorbad is also a very tall model, so he loses out with the LOS meta, you just cant hide him from cannon snipe, Gnarla is as tall as many monsters,

I'm not getting how you think orcs on foot on less combersome than cav. You can get 39 black orcs or 19 orc boar big uns, for the same price. Both units are exactly the same size. Black Orcs get more ranks, boars get more speed. The cav is doing the S6 attacks at init 2 on the charge, vs S5 or S6 with ASL.
Gorbad gets his 5th attack from his S6 boar.
The problem with both units is that T4 and 4+ armor (black orcs) or T4 and 3+ armor (boars) is far to vulnerable to normal shooting and magic.

Finally, Gorbad can death star up with a bunch of friends, and Gorbad cannot be stomped on. Grimgor is a loner.

 HawaiiMatt wrote:


I'm not getting how you think orcs on foot on less combersome than cav. You can get 39 black orcs or 19 orc boar big uns, for the same price. Both units are exactly the same size. Black Orcs get more ranks, boars get more speed. The cav is doing the S6 attacks at init 2 on the charge, vs S5 or S6 with ASL.

Cav is cumbersome because of the wide flanks and poor rank bonus, or very deep ranks and reasonable rank bonus. I wouldn't take that many Blorks anyway, 15-25 is enough, tag teamed with a choppa and shield unit in deep deep ranks. You only count the largest ranks yes, and the choppa and shield boyz have similar if not better defence.

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

Gorbad gets his 5th attack from his S6 boar..

Got to give you that one, forget to add Gnarla in.

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

The problem with both units is that T4 and 4+ armor (black orcs) or T4 and 3+ armor (boars) is far to vulnerable to normal shooting and magic.

Isnt that a problem you will just have to live with with orcs no matter the build. Savages with shrunken head and the big gribblies being the only notable exceptions.

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

Finally, Gorbad can death star up with a bunch of friends, and Gorbad cannot be stomped on. Grimgor is a loner.

Grimgor can still have an Immortulz champion. Yes you can death star up Gorbad but I dont see a boar deathstar working well frankly. Though if you know a way I will be interested. Besides inst the idea of Gorbad 'saving' some points by not needing a seperate BSB. It rather misses the point if you add lots of characters.

Boar death star = 20 Savage Ork Boar Boyz- 2 hand weapons- Great Shaman on boar with shrunken head, Big boss or Warboss of some kind on boar

 HawaiiMatt wrote:
Leadership is critical for O&G. Having an Ld10 bubble of 18", with 18" of re-rolls, and bonuses on the animosity table it totally worth it.
I have run him with great success.
While he might be a combat character, I don't run him that way. I run him as the leadership anchor that he is, and let his total bad-ass profile protect him from quick moving wizard/bsb killing units.

I mean, he's S5, Init 5, T5 and LD10. That makes him as good as you can get vs any stat-testing spell.
He gets 4 S6 attacks, with ASF, multiple wounds D3 and no armor save (S5 after the 1st round). That makes him a total beast against quick moving stuff that otherwise would kill my characters.

The first and most important reason I took him was because I loved the mini (and put a lot of work to it).

Plus, our group plays simplified LOS where a unit of monstrous infantry (trolls) blocks LOS to cavalry, so I just have to run him in a small boar boyz unit (for look out sir) with a troll screen in front.

It makes no-gobbo lists useable, but as others have pointed out, you're one failed test from losing him, the key is not to commit him to combat (or run another boar boss with crown of command in the same unit).

Good idea with e crown of command... Though pricey in points

jouso wrote:


Plus, our group plays simplified LOS where a unit of monstrous infantry (trolls) blocks LOS to cavalry, so I just have to run him in a small boar boyz unit (for look out sir) with a troll screen in front.

TLOS was a stupid idea and is proof that GW 'designers' cannot think. Some of the models are so extended they are cannon magnets even if behind tall buildings. Dark Elf dragon comes to mind. The current orc wyvern is actually hideable behind trolls.

TLOS also causes arguments about how much model needs to be seen and this is not cleaned up by discounting banners and wings.

Sorry, though I agree with your house rule, it's still a house rule and should be discounted for general 'tactics'. Learned that the hard way myself.