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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/14 21:05:19
Subject: Re:CSM vs DE rage.
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Nurgle Veteran Marine with the Flu
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If you're taking autocannon havocs against DE consider having their squad sit with an ADL or bastion with a quad gun. An extra 4 shots with the quad gun can really help pop some venoms/ravagers etc. with their crappy armour. Man the gun with a cheap Lord for better BS, and the twin linked is useful too.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/15 01:17:50
Subject: CSM vs DE rage.
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Fresh-Faced New User
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I just finished a game with my Mono Khorne army vs Dark Eldar/Eldar ally. I had Abadon with a squad of bezerkers make very quick work of his wyches and warlord and his Harliquins I had Terminators deep strike beside them and clean them up. I love playing Chaos but it comes down to the dice.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/15 04:58:44
Subject: CSM vs DE rage.
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Beast of Nurgle
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The key is taking out their high mobility and then eliminating their troops
I use the 150pt vengence weapon battery with las cannons. They are effective at taking out enemy vehicles.
For HS i use 2 las/auto preds for 115 pts each, they are clutch!
Next I have Combi melta termicide squads
On top of that a biker squad deathstar with sorceror, nurgle lord, and meltas
Lastly 2 Drakes
So all in all you pop the tanks hill the guys outside repeat
Oblits are good, but mass fire and ap2 can cut them down. I find the key to CSM is lots of cheap hard hitting units
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When in doubt poke it with a stick!
12000 16000 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/15 16:20:40
Subject: Re:CSM vs DE rage.
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Stone Bonkers Fabricator General
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Tonberry7 wrote:If you're taking autocannon havocs against DE consider having their squad sit with an ADL or bastion with a quad gun. An extra 4 shots with the quad gun can really help pop some venoms/ravagers etc. with their crappy armour. Man the gun with a cheap Lord for better BS, and the twin linked is useful too.
without split fire you are looking at overkill. 8 str7 shots will down just about anything in the DE army just as well at 12 str7 shots.
The exceptions are the tantalus and vects pimpmobile niether of which are fielded often. Automatically Appended Next Post: theonlyxaso wrote:
Next I have Combi melta termicide squads
On top of that a biker squad deathstar with sorceror, nurgle lord, and meltas
plasma is usually much better against DE, as night shields make it very difficult to get into range with a meltagun.
Also nurgle is next to useless against DE. Str3 wounds T6 just like T5. Posion the same. Str8 the same.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/15 16:23:16
Dark Mechanicus and Renegade Iron Hand Dakka Blog
My Dark Mechanicus P&M Blog. Mostly Modeling as I paint very slowly. Lots of kitbashed conversions of marines and a few guard to make up a renegade Iron Hand chapter and Dark Mechanicus Allies. Bionics++ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/16 00:50:58
Subject: CSM vs DE rage.
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Furious Fire Dragon
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I never have a problem when playing my Dark Eldar, their poison destroys all infantry with ease (2 venoms with trueborn 24 shots each? Yes please) and Dark Eldar have tons of dark lances, so vs tanks their pretty damn good too. Best way to counter them would be.... uh... Take lots of vehicles and try and kill the lancers and wytches before they hit you i suppose.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/16 02:56:33
Subject: CSM vs DE rage.
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Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets
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cosmicsoybean wrote:I never have a problem when playing my Dark Eldar, their poison destroys all infantry with ease (2 venoms with trueborn 24 shots each? Yes please) and Dark Eldar have tons of dark lances, so vs tanks their pretty damn good too. Best way to counter them would be.... uh... Take lots of vehicles and try and kill the lancers and wytches before they hit you i suppose.
Yes, but I feel like a lot of DE armies suffer if they don't go first against fast hitting armies. Yes, they're strong, but they're very glass cannons
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/16 06:08:44
Subject: Re:CSM vs DE rage.
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Nurgle Veteran Marine with the Flu
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Exergy wrote: Tonberry7 wrote:If you're taking autocannon havocs against DE consider having their squad sit with an ADL or bastion with a quad gun. An extra 4 shots with the quad gun can really help pop some venoms/ravagers etc. with their crappy armour. Man the gun with a cheap Lord for better BS, and the twin linked is useful too.
without split fire you are looking at overkill. 8 str7 shots will down just about anything in the DE army just as well at 12 str7 shots.
The exceptions are the tantalus and vects pimpmobile niether of which are fielded often.
I wouldn't neccesarily say it's overkill. Assuming all of your autocannon havocs have LoS, you will average 6 hits, 4 glances/pens and 2 failed jink saves. Although there is a fair chance you will actually down a ravager with this it's in no way guaranteed (I've learned this first hand) and so I don't think the quad gun is redundant. Plus your havocs will get a 4+ cover from the ADL, fearless from the Lord on the gun, and if you give the Lord termi armour a decent tank against small arms fire.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/16 07:10:38
Subject: CSM vs DE rage.
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Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan
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Hmmm tonberry makes good points on the ADL. The quad gun is still good AA right as well? We are pretty lacking on that after Heldrakes cant be spammed
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P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/16 09:31:25
Subject: CSM vs DE rage.
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Warp-Screaming Noise Marine
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SHUPPET wrote:Hmmm tonberry makes good points on the ADL. The quad gun is still good AA right as well? We are pretty lacking on that after Heldrakes cant be spammed
Flying Hive Tyrant(s) have taught to me to start my CSM lists with ADL + Quad-gun and only then add other stuff. Otherwise two of those Swooping  may very well defeat my entire army because from experience I know I can't rely on my army to down them with Snap Shots until it's too late.
It is important to note that Skyfire weapons shoot with full BS at Flyers, FMCs and Skimmers too. Even when dealing with regular ground targets, 4 TL Snap Shots are gonna hit once in a while.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/16 09:31:55
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/16 10:15:07
Subject: CSM vs DE rage.
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Nurgle Veteran Marine with the Flu
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SarisKhan wrote: SHUPPET wrote:Hmmm tonberry makes good points on the ADL. The quad gun is still good AA right as well? We are pretty lacking on that after Heldrakes cant be spammed
Flying Hive Tyrant(s) have taught to me to start my CSM lists with ADL + Quad-gun and only then add other stuff. Otherwise two of those Swooping  may very well defeat my entire army because from experience I know I can't rely on my army to down them with Snap Shots until it's too late.
It is important to note that Skyfire weapons shoot with full BS at Flyers, FMCs and Skimmers too. Even when dealing with regular ground targets, 4 TL Snap Shots are gonna hit once in a while.
Yep the quad gun getting full BS when shooting at venoms and ravagers etc is a major reason for why I consider it useful in a CSM vs DE list. If you man it with a Lord you're hitting on 2's as well as having twin linked.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/16 14:19:16
Subject: Re:CSM vs DE rage.
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Stone Bonkers Fabricator General
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Tonberry7 wrote: Exergy wrote: Tonberry7 wrote:If you're taking autocannon havocs against DE consider having their squad sit with an ADL or bastion with a quad gun. An extra 4 shots with the quad gun can really help pop some venoms/ravagers etc. with their crappy armour. Man the gun with a cheap Lord for better BS, and the twin linked is useful too.
without split fire you are looking at overkill. 8 str7 shots will down just about anything in the DE army just as well at 12 str7 shots.
I wouldn't neccesarily say it's overkill. Assuming all of your autocannon havocs have LoS, you will average 6 hits, 4 glances/pens and 2 failed jink saves. Although there is a fair chance you will actually down a ravager with this it's in no way guaranteed (I've learned this first hand) and so I don't think the quad gun is redundant. Plus your havocs will get a 4+ cover from the ADL, fearless from the Lord on the gun, and if you give the Lord termi armour a decent tank against small arms fire.
4+ cover isnt very good against DE anti infantry fire, which depends on mass failed saves. The AP2 stuff goes after vehicles or occasionally terminators. Most of the stuff that will actually be hitting the Havocs will be AP5, thus cover doesnt help much. At least most DE players will just fire splinter fire at the Lord in TDA until he fails his 2+ save 3 times.
A TDA lord, ADL, Quadgun and a squad of havocs costs ~350 points and has 8 wounds, 3 of them with a 2+ save. It puts out 12 str7 shots.
2 havoc squads with autocannons cost 230 points, have 10 wounds and put out 16 str7 shots and can split fire.
3 havoc squads with autocannons cost 345 points, have 15 wounds and put out 24 str7 shots and can split fire.
fearless is ok, but it isnt worth it most of the time.
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Dark Mechanicus and Renegade Iron Hand Dakka Blog
My Dark Mechanicus P&M Blog. Mostly Modeling as I paint very slowly. Lots of kitbashed conversions of marines and a few guard to make up a renegade Iron Hand chapter and Dark Mechanicus Allies. Bionics++ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/16 14:29:27
Subject: CSM vs DE rage.
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Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan
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My issue with Havoc Autocannons is they are very TAC. Definitely best in this match up,however.
I prefer3x LasC Havocs even if that is definitely overkill v DE vehicles.
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P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it. |
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