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Speaking of reality, art imitates life, so once america stops being sexist and actually support equality for everyone, it will be reflected in their movies and games.

 daedalus wrote:

That is my first stab at defining how the gender of the character "should not matter".
Feel free to take another run at it and see if I have to think a little harder...

I feel like you're getting snide.

Was not intent, but can see now that it would look that way.
Was more a comment of smoke may come out of my ears as I try to think of further arguments to whatever you choose to "take a run at".

Featureless cube comment, yes, I gave that a passing thought but we do not typically talk to featureless beings, it still needs to be a "person" to be any fun at all.
The "reality" I was referring to is we use at least a little bit in fantasy settings as we sling fireballs around or we would have nothing to make sense of it all.
I am not trying to make a strong case for realism being a requirement in a game, just some items of familiarity to engage the player.
The physical aspect of gender is usually noticeable in everyday life and understandably would show up in a game whatever the setting.
The "metal bikini", the "curvy chest plate" all have a feeling of auto-include for some of the fantasy games.

I keep having this image in my head that drives home what looks normal is not necessarily so (this image may leave a mark! warning!)
http://imgur.com/16yGO What has been seen cannot be unseen...

So, other than keeping up appearances, does gender matter in a game really? Some insist in sexual relations so that again goes down various dark paths...

 Talizvar wrote:
So, other than keeping up appearances, does gender matter in a game really? Some insist in sexual relations so that again goes down various dark paths...

I think it certainly can and in some cases even should. Sex and gender are part of who people are, it's part of how we experience the world and other people. I think there is a lot of space in many good stories for characters to be informed and shaped by gender and sexuality without being wholly defined by it, or strictly confined to gender stereotypes.

Persona 4 is a very, very good example of this. The characters in that game all clearly have identities shaped by gender and their stories all touch on the matter at least a little. Some as a major part of their character arcs. However, none of them can be entirely defined strictly by the elements influenced by their sex or sexuality, even those whose stories are intensely focused on their gender.

The interpersonal relationships are what can drive a story and romance compatibility comes to question so gender does come up in this regard.

I had a female friend of mine ask me if I thought she was a lesbian. Best reply I could think of was "I think you are not prejudiced by the sex of the person you find attractive."

The dialogue of a person can be witty, fun and interesting no matter what gender it comes from. You personally determine if that person is appropriate to have a relationship with. Same goes with your tastes in media.

nomotog wrote:
You know I would like to see some of the excuse for bad armor used logically to make a character. Like your a wizard, you have magic so you don't have to wear armor. Heck you can wear what ever you want because your the bloody wizard. How would someone dress if they could dress however they wanted.

Robes and a fething hat.

Because those loose robes-- so comfy. And the hat keeps sun off your eyes and rain off the head!

Also, it's stylish.

 Melissia wrote:

nomotog wrote:
You know I would like to see some of the excuse for bad armor used logically to make a character. Like your a wizard, you have magic so you don't have to wear armor. Heck you can wear what ever you want because your the bloody wizard. How would someone dress if they could dress however they wanted.

Robes and a fething hat.

Because those loose robes-- so comfy. And the hat keeps sun off your eyes and rain off the head!

Also, it's stylish.

However, as Bill and Ted taught us, heavy robes make playing Twister difficult. So there's pros and cons to every outfit.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

nomotog wrote:
You know I would like to see some of the excuse for bad armor used logically to make a character. Like your a wizard, you have magic so you don't have to wear armor. Heck you can wear what ever you want because your the bloody wizard. How would someone dress if they could dress however they wanted.

Robes and a fething hat.

Because those loose robes-- so comfy. And the hat keeps sun off your eyes and rain off the head!

Also, it's stylish.

However, as Bill and Ted taught us, heavy robes make playing Twister difficult. So there's pros and cons to every outfit.

I never said heavy robes.

 Melissia wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

nomotog wrote:
You know I would like to see some of the excuse for bad armor used logically to make a character. Like your a wizard, you have magic so you don't have to wear armor. Heck you can wear what ever you want because your the bloody wizard. How would someone dress if they could dress however they wanted.

Robes and a fething hat.

Because those loose robes-- so comfy. And the hat keeps sun off your eyes and rain off the head!

Also, it's stylish.

However, as Bill and Ted taught us, heavy robes make playing Twister difficult. So there's pros and cons to every outfit.

I never said heavy robes.

Well with light robes you're restricted to tropical to temperate climates

 Melissia wrote:

nomotog wrote:
You know I would like to see some of the excuse for bad armor used logically to make a character. Like your a wizard, you have magic so you don't have to wear armor. Heck you can wear what ever you want because your the bloody wizard. How would someone dress if they could dress however they wanted.

Robes and a fething hat.

Because those loose robes-- so comfy. And the hat keeps sun off your eyes and rain off the head!

Also takes less time and effort to put on and off, and you do not even need to remove them to, you know, answer the call of nature!
It makes riding a bicycle or a flying broom harder, though. And it is not the ideal choice for using that levitate spell!

 BlaxicanX wrote:
The issue I have with female representation in games lies mostly around the depth of their character. It's annoying when writers have a female character whose only reason for existing is to be the love-interest/damsel-in-distress for the male lead or, if they're not the damsel-in-distress, the 2-dimensional science/medic/support character who doesn't really have much of a personality beyond "vagina lol".

The lack of female protagonists is also frustrating.

I could generally care less about appearances though. Boob window/armor or attractiveness doesn't bother me at all. Heels and headlights on the other hand, bother me immensely.

I couldn't care less about the gender of a protagonist, or their race. The bigger problem seems to be people just shoving in minorities just for pandering. I don't give a damn about the gender or race of a protagonist, I just care that the game is fun. And if it's an RPG or any story driven game and not multiplayer, then if everything is written well. The problem isn't a lack of diversity, it's a lack of quality. Assassin's Creed II was fun, but that was just because of the free-roam assassinating, not that godawful conspiracy plot that feels like it belongs on the History Channel at 3AM.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
And it is not the ideal choice for using that levitate spell!

That's what shorts are for.

With the amount of perverted scumbags out there that try to take upskirt pictures of unwilling women without our permission, a lot of women who like wearing skirts already take to wearing shorts under them as it is.

 Wyzilla wrote:
I couldn't care less about the gender of a protagonist, or their race.

Me neither, normally. But not only do I enjoy getting a bit a variety, I also understand that this is a pretty easy position to hold for a white man. I have a very good Iranian friend who is really about as far as you can get from being centered on ethnic or racial stuff, yet still when we went to watch Prince of Persia she told me how it was pleasant to see people that looked like her for a change. And that is even though none of the actors were actually Iranians .

 Melissia wrote:
With the amount of perverted scumbags out there that try to take upskirt pictures of unwilling women without our permission

I thought that was a Japanese thing. It happens a lot in the US a lot too? Damn.


I ought to try robes once. Just to see how it feels. But it makes bike hard and climbing pretty much impossible, so I doubt I would wear one regularly.

Just for you Mel

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/hidden-upskirt-fetish-shoe-cameras-3799377

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

I thought that was a Japanese thing. It happens a lot in the US a lot too? Damn.

It's an add campaign by american apparel that got banned in the UK.

 daedalus wrote:

 Talizvar wrote:

 daedalus wrote:
Then what does it actually matter what the gender of the character is, if it doesn't matter what the gender of the character is?

Sometimes games like to reflect reality.

Oh, okay. Reality, right. I'm tossing fireballs, swinging swords at daemons, and I'm the descendant of some race of demigods or some gak, but if I can't do the exact same thing as a female, that's where reality sets in?

Usually our gender is somewhat apparent.

You'd think, and I agree completely. If it's so apparent, why does no one in game seem to notice?

The dialogue, or situational moments in a game should not require gender of the NPC or player to determine or hinge on what happens.

Not always. In my day to day interactions with people, at the workplace, at the bar, wherever, I feel like the fact that someone is male or female comes up at least once a day or two. I'm not saying it has to happen. I'm just saying that it trivializes the choice by it not. Might as well let the person be male, female, or a textureless white cube devoid of apparent feature. It's not BAD, it's just not immersive. Then again, we're discussing Diablo 3.

To this point, I personally would find more "enjoyment" out of games like Skyrim/TES (because you're supposed to get immersed in the character/world) if they made comments based on your gender. With "standard" Skyrim, if I have my character (Male or Female, it doesnt matter), people pretty much all say the same thing: "You might want to put something on" What I'd like to see is the occasional "cat call"/compliment by various townsfolk if my character is walking about in their loincloth. And keeping things interesting, it'd be fun to have the randomly gay/lesbian person in town, just to throw you off

 MrDwhitey wrote:
Just for you Mel

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/hidden-upskirt-fetish-shoe-cameras-3799377

My love for this world is quickly leaving.

Thank the gods I have written a bunch of strong female characters.

 MrDwhitey wrote:
Just for you Mel

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/hidden-upskirt-fetish-shoe-cameras-3799377

This is why America is losing damn it. Over here some twits just drill a hole in the wall and look through it, but in Japan they have damn shoe cameras. Amateur hours guys. Freaking amateur hour.

sirlynchmob wrote:
It's an add campaign by american apparel that got banned in the UK.

What?

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
To this point, I personally would find more "enjoyment" out of games like Skyrim/TES (because you're supposed to get immersed in the character/world) if they made comments based on your gender.

Yeah, in those kind of games, it make sense. It does not need to be big different though. Just very specific and occasional occurrence.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:
It's an add campaign by american apparel that got banned in the UK.

What?

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
To this point, I personally would find more "enjoyment" out of games like Skyrim/TES (because you're supposed to get immersed in the character/world) if they made comments based on your gender.

Yeah, in those kind of games, it make sense. It does not need to be big different though. Just very specific and occasional occurrence.

http://www.dazeddigital.com/fashion/article/21489/1/britain-bans-voyeuristic-american-apparel-upskirt-ads

Just don't look for it on youtube and see the young turks reporting on it

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
I couldn't care less about the gender of a protagonist, or their race.

Me neither, normally.

I wouldn't care if it weren't for the fact that ninety percent of games have the same exact boring personality-less scruffy white guy as their main character.

After over eighteen years of gaming, I'm tired of playing as that melon-fether. And that majorly impacts my purchase decisions, I skip a lot of games because of this, that if they didn't have this same character, I'd buy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:
It's an add campaign by american apparel that got banned in the UK.

What?

I think this is what he refers to.

I much prefer playing as a spaceship or a tank than generic white guy.

Also I found this game for Mel on steam

http://store.steampowered.com/app/321060/

Well, if nothing else, it looks like comedy gold.

I'm tempted to buy it to show my support for its ilk.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

To this point, I personally would find more "enjoyment" out of games like Skyrim/TES (because you're supposed to get immersed in the character/world) if they made comments based on your gender. With "standard" Skyrim, if I have my character (Male or Female, it doesnt matter), people pretty much all say the same thing: "You might want to put something on" What I'd like to see is the occasional "cat call"/compliment by various townsfolk if my character is walking about in their loincloth. And keeping things interesting, it'd be fun to have the randomly gay/lesbian person in town, just to throw you off

Long as it's not just me.

 MrDwhitey wrote:
I'm tempted to buy it to show my support for its ilk.

$25 for what looks like a glorified flash glame? no thanks.

Yeah. That game looks like a barrel of laughs, but $25 is a bit steep for a visual novel (there's a reason I haven't been buying them even though the genre has finally started hitting the Steam store).

Of course I wont buy it, it's a piece of gak. I might watch a few minutes of a playthrough just to confirm how gak it is, then laugh at it some more.

To further expound upon my previous statements, I liked the way that Fallout/Fallout 2 handled, at least partially. They got it right in that some people just treated you like gak, and you had to figure out a way to work around that. Some people would treat you like gak if you were male, and some people would treat you like gak if you were female. Some people treated you like gak regardless. THAT'S reality, and gritty, and believable.

Where they got it wrong was letting you just arbitrarily feth pretty much anything that you encountered if you were female for favors of some sort. Of course, you didn't have to do that, and it came up in more than one occasion as a man also, but it did kind of have a lingering "WEMEN... HEHEHEHE" vibe to it.

Of course, according to some not fully confirmed things I understand going around the internet, fething people for favors might not be far off from reality either.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MrDwhitey wrote:
I much prefer playing as a spaceship or a tank than generic white guy.

Also I found this game for Mel on steam

http://store.steampowered.com/app/321060/

My temptation to confuse the hell out of anyone who has friended on Steam is tempered only by my temptation to not pay $25 when I could just do it with strange and ambiguous drunken messages.

I loved fallout 1 and 2.

It gave different options that (in my opinion) were realistic for each gender. As a women, you didnt have to sell your body, but just like in real life, the option was there.

Stats are universal, some perks and options arent. Gender was more than a skin, but didnt change the way you played the game unless you chose to use your gender to gain perks (sometimes degrading yourself in the process).

Best RPG games made in my opinion. Especially some of the scenes you find in the desert (talking cows, doctor who, aliens, killer rabbit from the holy grail etc). Great fun.

 Swastakowey wrote:
I loved fallout 1 and 2.

It gave different options that (in my opinion) were realistic for each gender. As a women, you didnt have to sell your body, but just like in real life, the option was there.

Stats are universal, some perks and options arent. Gender was more than a skin, but didnt change the way you played the game unless you chose to use your gender to gain perks (sometimes degrading yourself in the process).

Best RPG games made in my opinion. Especially some of the scenes you find in the desert (talking cows, doctor who, aliens, killer rabbit from the holy grail etc). Great fun.

Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa

Fallout 2 has doctor who and montey python stuff in it?

Ok now I'll go check out that game.