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I just sat and read that blog that Mel posted, I agree with everything the lass said, and all of the comments had similar stories. I don't for a second doubt that people throw the word "rape"about almost instantaneously, but It did start me off thinking about something.

On the internet people love to get straight to name calling because there is no need to be as nice because you aren't risking a proper fight. Same as road rage, about five years ago I accidental stepped out in front of a bloke who was driving down my street, he was only about ten yards away and it was my fault, I was on my phone. I waved a hand and mouthed the word "Sorry!" but he went mental, called me fething arsehole and did the spanker hand gesture. If I banged into him in a pub and went "sorry" he would say "no problem" right?

Anyway, it is the same thing (to a much lesser extent obviously) because the car and the internet invokes a feeling of protection. If everyone on Dakka got together for a beer, I guarantee there would be no scrapping. I disagree with many of the people in here that I met in person at Warhammer World once, we got along better because there is an incentive to be nicer to each other.

So if we simply take it that the internet brings out the very worst in people, isn't that more evidence that in reality my gender doesnt deserve as much gak?

Like.. are most of these men genuinely misogynistic, or are they just being dicks on the internet? I don't think that is a good thing obviously, but speaking on behalf of my gender, I honestly don't think that the vast majority of men actually hate women, because what possible reason is there to dislike women? What motive? What do you gain from it?

We all come from one... and everyone loves their mom right?

Well... except for this guy obviously.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Do you not agree that female representation in game includes way too much sexualization?
And that there are way, way more damsel in distress than dude in distress?
And that this makes game less appealing to women?
If you answered yes to those three questions, then congrats, you do agree with what 99% of the people who have a problem with female representation in video game think.

No
Does you have any studies on that? It's a trope, it was used that way, no harm, no foul. Video games don't make kids violent, and don't make kids want to abduct women.
No, they're the majority of gamers.

99% of all percentages are made up.

Those questions were not asked to you. Do you need a study to know that the sky is blue? If video game do not make some people stupid, the does it mean they were born that way?

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Those questions were not asked to you. Do you need a study to know that the sky is blue? If video game do not make some people stupid, the does it mean they were born that way?

I know, but I wanted to answer them as well.

There have been studies to find out why the sky is blue.
http://spaceplace.nasa.gov/blue-sky/en/

maybe, we'd have to do some studies to find out for sure.

But if video games do not make people violent as has been proven and well researched. Then why would anyone believe that they would make people sexist, or stupid?

sirlynchmob wrote:
There have been studies to find out why the sky is blue.

To find out why. But none to find out if it was.
You are welcome to do a study on why there are more Damsels than Dudes in distress in video games.

sirlynchmob wrote:
But if video games do not make people violent as has been proven and well researched. Then why would anyone believe that they would make people sexist, or stupid?

If video games did not make you create strawmen with such talents, then you must have been born this way .

... actually, people HAVE studied the sky, and quantified the exact color that its reading on the electromagnetic spectrum corresponds with. Blue is defined as a certain range of wavelengths on this spectrum, and as such, people have, in fact, studied about whether or not the sky is actually blue.

This is all silly off-topic stuff but still, your assertion is pretty much wrong

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:
There have been studies to find out why the sky is blue.

To find out why. But none to find out if it was.
You are welcome to do a study on why there are more Damsels than Dudes in distress in video games.

sirlynchmob wrote:
But if video games do not make people violent as has been proven and well researched. Then why would anyone believe that they would make people sexist, or stupid?

If video games did not make you create strawmen with such talents, then you must have been born this way .

So you're claiming the sky is always blue? The sky is not blue, it sky can appear to be many different colors.

but if you want to believe games make you sexist, what is that really saying about you?

sirlynchmob wrote:
but if you want to believe games make you sexist

I play tons of video game, I do not think I am sexist, and I certainly do not think games made me sexist. I still stand by what I said. Now go try to understand it, so we can actually discuss it.

About Vikings...

 mattyrm wrote:

On the internet people love to get straight to name calling because there is no need to be as nice because you aren't risking a proper fight. Same as road rage, about five years ago I accidental stepped out in front of a bloke who was driving down my street, he was only about ten yards away and it was my fault, I was on my phone. I waved a hand and mouthed the word "Sorry!" but he went mental, called me fething arsehole and did the spanker hand gesture. If I banged into him in a pub and went "sorry" he would say "no problem" right?

There's a huge fething difference between bumping into someone at the pub and walking in front of a moving vehicle.

These are not comparable.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:
but if you want to believe games make you sexist

I play tons of video game, I do not think I am sexist, and I certainly do not think games made me sexist. I still stand by what I said. Now go try to understand it, so we can actually discuss it.

I tried, you ran on a tangent.

You claim "99% of the people who have a problem with female representation in video game"

I disagree, that is not a factual claim, that is your opinion.

It is a rough approximate. Why does it matter?

 MrDwhitey wrote:


There's a huge fething difference between bumping into someone at the pub and walking in front of a moving vehicle.

These are not comparable.

Bollocks! How is that massively different? It wasn't a 50mph emergency stop, it was in my street. He was doing about 20mph and I stepped out ten yards in front of him because I cant multi-task... it was a.. relatively harsh brake, nothing like a "feth me!" neck snapper.

Its the exact same! You accidentally inconvenience someone and apologize, if they cross a line and start swinging, they are still in the fething wrong even if you made an error.

You're talking absolute bollocks.

Even at 20mph there's a real potential for injury for you, and also the damages to his vehicle.

This is not even slightly the same and it's hilarious you are acting as if it is.

I don't remember stating that it makes it ok to start swinging at someone. As I recall, you said all he did was shout a lot and make the spanker gesture. Why are you even mentioning that?

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
It is a rough approximate. Why does it matter?

By rough approximate I take it you mean, you made it up, just like:

This whole damsel in distress trope having any negative effect, it is a Myth. It has no facts to back it up, No studies, Nothing. It's an opinion that has no merit what so ever.

The idea that the way women are represented in games, makes them not want to play games. It's wrong, it's demonstrably wrong. It is a Myth. It has no facts to back it up, No studies, Nothing. It's an opinion that has no merit what so ever.

 MrDwhitey wrote:
You're talking absolute bollocks.

Even at 20mph there's a real potential for injury for you, and also the damages to his vehicle.

This is not even slightly the same and it's hilarious you are acting as if it is.

Of course they are, maybe you think its hilarious because you are a bad tempered fether?

Its OT so lets keep it short, tell me why it is totally different by answering a simple question. I mean, surely if it is totally different, you would respond totally differently right? And they aren't uncommon events, we have both had them happen to us on more than one occasion right?

Here's what I do...

Hit the brakes, possibly tut, and perhaps even shake my head slightly.

Stop walking, possibly tut, and perhaps even shake my head slightly.

I think that's game old chap!

sirlynchmob wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
It is a rough approximate. Why does it matter?

By rough approximate I take it you mean, you made it up, just like:

This whole damsel in distress trope having any negative effect, it is a Myth. It has no facts to back it up, No studies, Nothing. It's an opinion that has no merit what so ever.

The idea that the way women are represented in games, makes them not want to play games. It's wrong, it's demonstrably wrong. It is a Myth. It has no facts to back it up, No studies, Nothing. It's an opinion that has no merit what so ever.

It doesn't need negative effects. It's Cliché and sexist. That is enough of a reason to dislike it

 MrDwhitey wrote:


I don't remember stating that it makes it ok to start swinging at someone. As I recall, you said all he did was shout a lot and make the spanker gesture. Why are you even mentioning that?

Well obviously it isn't the crux of the discussion, I was simply saying that cars are like the internet, they immunize people against a response.

And it is a proven fact by the way.

 mattyrm wrote:

Of course they are, maybe you think its hilarious because you are a bad tempered fether?

What gave you that idea?

Its OT so lets keep it short, tell me why it is totally different by answering a simple question. I mean, surely if it is totally different, you would respond totally differently right? And they aren't uncommon events, we have both had them happen to us on more than one occasion right?

Here's what I do...

Hit the brakes, possibly tut, and perhaps even shake my head slightly.

Stop walking, possibly tut, and perhaps even shake my head slightly.

I think that's game old chap!

You realise, some people react the same to killing a person as they would to killing a dog, so all that does is say how you would hypothetically react. Plus, it's not like I even know you're being honest.

Both are accidents, one has the potential to be really fething dangerous and the other really doesn't (except in freak cases). They are different in that regard, and that is literally all I need to say. You're being absurd by saying they're "the exact same thing".

 mattyrm wrote:


Well obviously it isn't the crux of the discussion, I was simply saying that cars are like the internet, they immunize people against a response.

And it is a proven fact by the way.

Proven fact or not, I would agree with this.

Ok, obviously one is more dangerous than the other (unless you are very fat and walk very fast), but the point I was making was that it was the "exact same" in that the response from the aggrieved party should be pretty much identical.

i.e. I was in the wrong, but the bloke shouldn't have started fething going mental after held my hands up and apologized.

So lets leave it there eh? This is almost as OT as when I got us started on Ayatollah Khomeini in the "what did you eat today" thread.

Did you see the edit at the end of my post? I agreed with you on your main point.

 MrDwhitey wrote:
Did you see the edit at the end of my post? I agreed with you on your main point.

Haha yeah I did aye. It is true, I looked into it after noticing how often fat old men in their 70s are quick to threaten men in their twenties during a road rage incident.

sirlynchmob wrote:
This whole damsel in distress trope having any negative effect, it is a Myth. It has no facts to back it up, No studies, Nothing. It's an opinion that has no merit what so ever.

So, uh, how exactly did you go from “99% of the people that have a problem with female representation in video game dislike it because [list of reasons]” to “video game makes you sexist”? I think you had a comprehension problem, and misunderstood “99% of the people that complain about female representation in video game are not like those two examples Mattyrm like to mention” into “99% of people are turned into sexist because of video game.” I really have no idea how you managed that one.

sirlynchmob wrote:
The idea that the way women are represented in games, makes them not want to play games. It's wrong, it's demonstrably wrong. It is a Myth. It has no facts to back it up, No studies, Nothing. It's an opinion that has no merit what so ever.

We do have two examples of women in this very thread that do find this annoying, but please, go ahead, and show all those studies you have to prove it. Oh, wait, you do not provide studies, you merely ask for them. How damn surprising.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

We do have two examples of women in this very thread that do find this annoying, but please, go ahead, and show all those studies you have to prove it. Oh, wait, you do not provide studies, you merely ask for them. How damn surprising.

A claim needs to be backed up to stand, not the other way around. There is zero evidence for any influence, as pointed out multiple times in the last few threads on the same matter. Anecdotal evidence is completely meaningless if talking about general assumptions.

The only thing that can be said about the entire thing is that video games, as all mainstream media, mirror issues already present - this applies to all -isms. The counter-assumption, that said displays constitute changes outside media, is easily made if you're already leaning into that direction, but ultimatively, there is absolutely nothing backing it up and makes it a moot assumption.

 Sigvatr wrote:
A claim needs to be backed up to stand, not the other way around.

Precisely. It just so happens he said “ It's wrong, it's demonstrably wrong.” Emphasis mine. So, this pretty much seems like a claim from him, a claim that he should back up.

It's a counter-claim, though, not a claim. If talking about claims on general concepts that are considered correct by one side, asking for evidence to back those up is in order. If there is no evidence for it, then calling the lack of it out is a valid counter-claim. Maybe that's what he meant by "demonstrably", the lack of evidence.

 Sigvatr wrote:
It's a counter-claim, though, not a claim.

“It is demonstrably false” is not a claim?
Okay, whatever floats your boat, man. Do not let logic ruin your fun .
He did not say “There is no evidence so we cannot know either way”, right? He said it was false. In other word, he said the contraposition of this was true.

Lack of evidence on one side of an argument does not mean that the opposite side of the argument is true, without needing its own evidence.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:
This whole damsel in distress trope having any negative effect, it is a Myth. It has no facts to back it up, No studies, Nothing. It's an opinion that has no merit what so ever.

So, uh, how exactly did you go from “99% of the people that have a problem with female representation in video game dislike it because [list of reasons]” to “video game makes you sexist”? I think you had a comprehension problem, and misunderstood “99% of the people that complain about female representation in video game are not like those two examples Mattyrm like to mention” into “99% of people are turned into sexist because of video game.” I really have no idea how you managed that one.

sirlynchmob wrote:
The idea that the way women are represented in games, makes them not want to play games. It's wrong, it's demonstrably wrong. It is a Myth. It has no facts to back it up, No studies, Nothing. It's an opinion that has no merit what so ever.

We do have two examples of women in this very thread that do find this annoying, but please, go ahead, and show all those studies you have to prove it. Oh, wait, you do not provide studies, you merely ask for them. How damn surprising.

You're still on that 99% that you made up? interesting

so just 2 is enough to make a case study? or a representative population? It's 'No' btw.

http://www.bigfishgames.com/blog/2014-global-gaming-stats-whos-playing-what-and-why/
women now account for 47% of U.S. gamers, up from 42% in 2012

http://www.gamepolitics.com/2014/04/24/new-esa-report-offers-stats-galore-american-gaming-trends#.VAufdGM3IcU
- The number of female gamers age 50 and older increased by 32 percent from 2012 to 2013.

http://www.etcentric.org/gaming-trend-adult-women-steal-lead-from-under-18-males/
These numbers show a five percent increase in adult women and a two percent decrease in under-18 males from last year.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/gaming-no-longer-a-mans-world-1408464249
"We see a big and fast increase in female players, over all genres," said Fredrik Rundqvist, a games producer at Ubisoft SA UBI.


up 5% in 2 years in some significant growth, apparently games are more appealing to women. There you go, I demonstrated that you are wrong.

DO you have any studies for your argument or this 99%? produce them or admit they're your opinion.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
It's a counter-claim, though, not a claim.

Okay, whatever floats your boat, man. Do not let logic ruin your fun .

Hey, I was just trying to guess what he thought, I did not speak for myself :(

/e: Sigh. Please, please, stop using the ESA as any kind of source. Their work is extremely poorly researched and biased and if used as a main point of any argumentation drastically weakens your reasoning.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
It's a counter-claim, though, not a claim.

Okay, whatever floats your boat, man. Do not let logic ruin your fun .

Hey, I was just trying to guess what he thought, I did not speak for myself :(

/e: Sigh. Please, please, stop using the ESA as any kind of source. Their work is extremely poorly researched and biased and if used as a main point of any argumentation drastically weakens your reasoning.

that's why I listed 4 sources, there's more but I figured 4 different sources should be enough to prove the point.