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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/11 21:54:59
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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Legendary Master of the Chapter
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Melissia wrote:I do. Her "damsel in distress" videos were factually correct, and actually quite fair and gentle to the games being discussed. Asherian Command wrote:While willfully ignoring MANY many counter arguments such as Ico and Shadow Of the Colossus.
Going to cut you off here and say that few random, isolated counter-examples do not disprove a trend. And just because a game is a good game does not mean it must also be perfect. No game is beyond criticism, not even the best game ever made, Psychonauts. She indicated that what she would like (and I agree with her in this instance) is less reliance on the "damsel" trope to begin with, but especially when it comes to using women as "damsels". On its own, the fact that Ico had the girl be the one being rescued is perfectly fine. It only becomes a problem when there is a greater trend which promotes the idea that women are mostly suitable to be "damsels" and other supporting roles, and not suitable to be active and protagonist roles. And there is, to a lesser extent these days sure, but it still exists even today. Though I will agree, parts of her agrument are a flaw. It is proven that the Hero Link is not out for a reward. (Which is usually the trope among the Damsel in Distress tropes) Is that he is not seeking an award his main goal is to defeat Ganadorf and save the land. Zelda is the princess of the Land and A Sage. You fight her once, because she is testing you. See the thing is Antia uses certain bits and pieces and lacks proper context in certain parts of the game. The one issue being the Mercy kill or the Enthusasian kill, she forgets to mention that in all the games, the main character, usually says. "I don't want to do this. This is wrong." And then begrudgingly through a heavy heart kill them after the request to be killed by the person who originally wanted to die. That is willfully misleading. I think in the industry the main problem is that there is less representation of Strong Female Characters. Clip- Psychonauts “I’m just trying to set you on fire through this stupid hat!” “What a delightfully mean little brain you have.” However this extra character development tends to make their eventual disempowerment all the more frustrating. Damsels on the more sassy end of the spectrum may struggle with their captors… Clip- Hitman: Absolution “Get away from me!” … or even attempt an escape on their own but inevitably their efforts always prove futile. Occasionally they may be allowed to offer the hero a last minute helping hand or to kick the bad guy while he’s down but these moments are largely symbolic and typically only happen after the core adventure is over or the danger has passed. These token gestures of pseudo-empowerment don’t really offer any meaningful change to the core of the trope and it feels like developers just throw these moments in at the last minute to try to excuse their continued reliance on the damsel in distress. Periodically, game developers may attempt to build a more flushed out relationship or emotional bond between Damsel’d character and the male protagonist. In the most decidedly patronizing examples depictions of female vulnerability are used for an easy way for writers to trigger an emotional reaction in male players. As we discussed in our first episode, when female characters are damsel’ed, their ostensible agency is removed and they are reduced to a state of victimhood. So narratives that frame intimacy, love or romance as something that blossoms from or hinges upon the disempowerment and victimization of women are extremely troubling because they tend to reinforce the widespread regressive notion that women in vulnerable, passive or subordinate positions are somehow desirable because of their state of powerlessness. Unfortunately these types of stories also help to perpetuate the paternalistic belief that power imbalances within romantic relationships appealing, expected, or normal. Ok so we know that the Damsel in Distress is alive and well in gaming but that’s not the full picture, there’s even more insidious side to the story. Over the past decade game companies have been desperately searching for ways to stand out in a market increasingly oversaturated with very similar products. As a consequence we’ve seen a dramatic increase in the number of games attempting to cut through the clutter by being as “dark and edgy” as possible. Wait what WE NEED CONTEXT. LACK OF CONTEXT. The Girl in pyschonauts, that was the first time she had gotten caught. She's not the end goal of the game, infact she is an extremely strong female character throughout the game. YOU NEED CONTEXT. Shesh. Now the second video Though I have more of a problem on. But the rest of the video is factual. Bits and pieces I find completely incorrect.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/09/11 22:02:08
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/11 22:03:15
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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[MOD]
Solahma
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Aside from the fact that you have never seen it before, what makes it weird? More to the point, can you give an objection to my definition other than posting pictures of men you find erotic? What are the unfortunate implications? How is this different from saying X is a symptom of a problem rather than a problem? A pinup is a kind of image not a kind of character.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/11 22:08:34
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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It is the player that is rewarded, more than Link-- while I don't remember the ending of the first game, I have the second one on my person right now in fact. The ending is of them kissing, then curtains fall and the insinuation is well you know what happens next wink wink nudge nudge. The games started out using Zelda as little more than a living prop. This is by no means unique amongst the series. Though named after Zelda, it wasn't really until Ocarina of Time that she became more than scenery, and even then, only in the form of Sheik-- and always destined to be fought over instead of fighting for her own self in the final battle. Then why are you ignoring it? You're ignoring the greater context that she talks about-- the "big picture", to use a cliche term for it-- to focus on nitpicky details.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/09/11 22:10:54
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/11 22:14:46
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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Assassin with Black Lotus Poison
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Asherian Command wrote:
Wait what
WE NEED CONTEXT. LACK OF CONTEXT.
The Girl in pyschonauts, that was the first time she had gotten caught. She's not the end goal of the game, infact she is an extremely strong female character throughout the game.
YOU NEED CONTEXT.
As she said earlier, it doesn't need to be the end goal to be the damsel in distress trope.
And she also said that her being an extremely strong character throughout the game just makes the damsel in distress trope more lazy and infuriating.
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The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/11 22:15:58
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta
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@hybrid son of oxayotl
That is not evidence, that is her unfounded opinion.
Let's look at this opinion of hers
"The belief that women are somehow a “naturally weaker gender” is a deeply ingrained socially constructed myth, which of course is completely false- but the notion is reinforced and perpetuated when women are continuously portrayed as frail, fragile, and vulnerable creatures. "
If that was in any way true, why would the military have 2 standards for fitness for men & women? When you compare Olympic scores between men & women, which one is faster?, stronger?, more agile? Her statement here is a blatant lie.
Then there is this opinion of hers:
"Damsel in Distress trope as a recurring trend does help to normalize extremely toxic, patronizing and paternalistic attitudes about women. "
Where is the research to support that?
Like she said it's her "critical analysis" ie her unfounded opinion and her unfounded conclusions.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/11 22:18:18
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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Legendary Master of the Chapter
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Melissia wrote:It is the player that is rewarded, more than Link-- while I don't remember the ending of the first game, I have the second one on my person right now in fact. The ending is of them kissing, then curtains fall and the insinuation is well you know what happens next wink wink nudge nudge. The games started out using Zelda as little more than a living prop. This is by no means unique amongst the series. Though named after Zelda, it wasn't really until Ocarina of Time that she became more than scenery ,and even then, only in the form of Sheik. Then why are you ignoring it? You're ignoring the greater context that she talks about-- the "big picture", to use a cliche term for it-- to focus on nitpicky details. She needs more than a single scene. In order to really delve into the situation you can't say yep that is against women. And ran with it. She wasn't picking on the first or second. Which was when the games were younger. Later on they become friends and allies. They are no longer this couple. Infact I feel that aspect of the two has begun to disappear. The entire thing is she needs to give context to these scenes. The thing is that she doesn't define it as a reward for the player. When she does talk about the player she forgets in one of her reviews you are given a choice. (Do not get me started what she said about hitman absolution, especially about the stripper bit, Because you are docked points EVERY SINGLE TIME you kill a civilain, they are civilains, you are a strip club, of course they are going to be sexualized, they are in the MAKE-UP Room, and it happens once in the level. The game is about saving a girl from a group of assassins because your former boss, a woman ,who died in the shower, and had dialogue and was actually menacing and that is more than most of the male characters in the game, it was a big deal when you killed your boss) There are certain periods when she forgets parts of the game. Sometimes there are times when this does not work, there are damsels in distress. I.E. Prince of Persia Warrior Within (As much as I hate the game), there is a time when you have to save this woman, this woman later in the game turns out to be main bad guy. But at the time she was in distress. From being attacked by another woman. Hang on for a tick. Is this demeaning to the character? No not really. (But what they were wearing kind of was....) But I digress, the main issue is you have to describe the scene. The biggest problem is the part when she talks about pyschonauts, about the love interest, when throughout the game was quite a strong character, and she was not the only one that was being experimented on, she was one of the last characters to be, the main villain was not just targeting her, but many other characters, (NO matter what the gender) Automatically Appended Next Post: A Town Called Malus wrote: Asherian Command wrote: Wait what WE NEED CONTEXT. LACK OF CONTEXT. The Girl in pyschonauts, that was the first time she had gotten caught. She's not the end goal of the game, infact she is an extremely strong female character throughout the game. YOU NEED CONTEXT. As she said earlier, it doesn't need to be the end goal to be the damsel in distress trope. And she also said that her being an extremely strong character throughout the game just makes the damsel in distress trope more lazy and infuriating. Ever played Pyschonauts? If you have played the game you know full well that is not what was happening. She was in distress once. Like the entire cast. It was not just one character. It was multiple times. Not just female, but male. Both genders got a chance to get captured. Its not a tired cliched. Nor is infuriating for her character. Sometimes you get caught out of position and surrender. Is that wrong? No not really. I would like to drive your attention to stick it to the man, where the main female lead is captured but saves the alien to help save her boyfriend, but forgets to untie herself, so she stays behind. "Damsel in Distress trope as a recurring trend does help to normalize extremely toxic, patronizing and paternalistic attitudes about women. " You do not need to be a writer not to laugh at that.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/09/11 22:21:57
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/11 22:22:00
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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Assassin with Black Lotus Poison
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Asherian Command wrote: A Town Called Malus wrote: Asherian Command wrote: Wait what WE NEED CONTEXT. LACK OF CONTEXT. The Girl in pyschonauts, that was the first time she had gotten caught. She's not the end goal of the game, infact she is an extremely strong female character throughout the game. YOU NEED CONTEXT. As she said earlier, it doesn't need to be the end goal to be the damsel in distress trope. And she also said that her being an extremely strong character throughout the game just makes the damsel in distress trope more lazy and infuriating. Ever played Pyschonauts? Yes. She is a great, strong character yet still needs to be rescued from Loboto by Raz.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/11 22:22:28
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/11 22:22:27
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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Legendary Master of the Chapter
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A Town Called Malus wrote: Asherian Command wrote: A Town Called Malus wrote: Asherian Command wrote: Wait what WE NEED CONTEXT. LACK OF CONTEXT. The Girl in pyschonauts, that was the first time she had gotten caught. She's not the end goal of the game, infact she is an extremely strong female character throughout the game. YOU NEED CONTEXT. As she said earlier, it doesn't need to be the end goal to be the damsel in distress trope. And she also said that her being an extremely strong character throughout the game just makes the damsel in distress trope more lazy and infuriating. Ever played Pyschonauts? Yes. She is a strong character yet still needs to be rescued by Raz. Read the rest of what I said. She's not the only that gets captured in the game. There were certain bits of her argument that fall apart once a male is put into the mix and captured. We see this quite often. Is it bad for a character to get captured? No not really. It doesn't demean and intoxicate the character. Sometimes the character is overwhelmed it happens. If a mobster came up to you with a machine gun do you really think you would disagree with him. Whats worth more... Your life or your pride?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/11 22:24:03
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/11 22:22:48
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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Hallowed Canoness
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Manchu wrote:Aside from the fact that you have never seen it before, what makes it weird? More to the point, can you give an objection to my definition other than posting pictures of men you find erotic?
Yes. Language is made to communicate, and if you do use a definition that is different from the definition everybody else uses, it is not going to help communication.
If your pinup is an image of a car, an apple, or any inanimate object rather than a character, you are doing it wrong.
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"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/11 22:22:55
Subject: Re:What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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Kid_Kyoto
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Wasn't Peach a playable character in all the Mario Karts, Super Mario 2 (as mentioned) and I thought also Super Mario RPG?
Also, what I kind of got out of Alan Wake was that he thought Alice needed saving, but it was actually he that was trapped? Doesn't she actually "save" him in the sequel? Granted, the second one was admittedly terrible, but still.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/11 22:23:35
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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No, to laugh at that statement, you just need to be a person who refuses to think about what that statement might actually mean to the person saying it.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/11 22:23:41
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/11 22:25:57
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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Hallowed Canoness
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"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/11 22:26:28
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control
Adelaide, South Australia
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Melissia wrote:Her "damsel in distress" videos were factually correct, and actually quite fair and gentle to the games being discussed.
Just to nitpick, but Melissia, do you hold to the assertion she made in the first video that the physical strength disparity between men and women 'is a socially constructed myth'?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/11 22:31:21
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta
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I'll take that as admission I'm right, and that's why you ignored my points and request for real evidence.
I clearly showed one instance of where she lied, and another instance of her unfounded opinion with no evidence that supports her conclusion.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/11 22:31:56
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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Legendary Master of the Chapter
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Melissia wrote:No, to laugh at that statement, you just need to be a person who refuses to think about what that statement might actually mean to the person saying it. I would like to direct you to many examples of male characters being captured. Final Fantasy 5 The Hermit (Saved by the party consisting of mainly females) King Tycoon Final Fantasy 5 Bartz Final Fantasy 5 (who saves the party gaulf, faris and Lenna, and the newcomer) Call of Duty Captain Price (Being cornered and is calling for assistance) Halo 1-3 Marines (Marines are caught out of position and need your help, considered to be apart of the damsel in distress,) Halo 3 Segerant Johnson (Chief and Captain Halle (She ultimately dies trying to save him) ) Halo 2 Sarge and the Elites (Arbiter comes to rescue his brethren) Prince of Persia The Prince (Farah Saves his bloody ass) Every military shooter where a squad is surrounded and needs aid or a hostage situation (Military, happens quite often is apart of the trope as well) (Need I go on?) Movies Conan The barabarian Conan ( Conan is saved by the angel of his past love) Serenity The Entire cast (Saved by River, who did major kick ass things) Indiana Jones Dr. Indiana Jones (His Female sidekicks Multiple occassions) Star Wars Luke (Princess Lea) Star Wars Han Solo (Princess Lea) Books Game of Thrones Every Male lead (Brienne of Tarth, Sansa Stark, Arya Stark, Catelyna Stark,) And thats all from the top of my head. A damsel in distress is not a demeaning thing to the character. IF you take it as one you need to read more. There are quite a few times when a character is captured. But they come out of alive. (Or sometimes not) This happens and it only strengthens the character's relationship with their savior.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/09/11 22:33:42
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/11 22:34:13
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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Hallowed Canoness
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Yes, please do!
Asherian Command wrote:I would like to direct you to many examples of male characters being captured.
Final Fantasy 5 The Hermit (Saved by the party consisting of mainly females)
King Tycoon Final Fantasy 5
Bartz Final Fantasy 5 (who saves the party gaulf, faris and Lenna, and the newcomer)
Call of Duty Captain Price (Being cornered and is calling for assistance)
Halo 1-3 Marines (Marines are caught out of position and need your help, considered to be apart of the damsel in distress,)
Prince of Persia The Prince (Farah Saves his bloody ass)
Every military shooter where a squad is surrounded and needs aid or a hostage situation (Military, happens quite often is apart of the trope as well)
(Need I go on?)
To compare to http://tropesversuswomen.tumblr.com/ .
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"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/11 22:35:36
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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Legendary Master of the Chapter
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Kojiro wrote: Melissia wrote:Her "damsel in distress" videos were factually correct, and actually quite fair and gentle to the games being discussed.
Just to nitpick, but Melissia, do you hold to the assertion she made in the first video that the physical strength disparity between men and women 'is a socially constructed myth'? I agree with that it is a social construction, females can take more harm and won't feel as much pain, and have naturally better reflexes and eye hand coordination. Males just have more muscle mass, and height. The down side is that men can take harm and will feel more pain. Automatically Appended Next Post: Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: Yes, please do! Asherian Command wrote:I would like to direct you to many examples of male characters being captured. Final Fantasy 5 The Hermit (Saved by the party consisting of mainly females) King Tycoon Final Fantasy 5 Bartz Final Fantasy 5 (who saves the party gaulf, faris and Lenna, and the newcomer) Call of Duty Captain Price (Being cornered and is calling for assistance) Halo 1-3 Marines (Marines are caught out of position and need your help, considered to be apart of the damsel in distress,) Prince of Persia The Prince (Farah Saves his bloody ass) Every military shooter where a squad is surrounded and needs aid or a hostage situation (Military, happens quite often is apart of the trope as well) (Need I go on?)
To compare to http://tropesversuswomen.tumblr.com/ . Various women, Ride to Hell: Retribution (2013) #damselindistress With that my friends I keep my arguments up and stand strong. There are more men saved in video games to date than women, because of the lack of women in games. How do I know this? How many military shooters are there? Count how many times you have to save a group of men? In strategy games count how many times you have to save a group of soldiers? Tell me how many times do you have to save that lost squad of marines? That is an incredibly short list compared to how many times you have to save men. The Damsel in Distress Trope applies to both men and women. Do not say it happens only to women, because I will smack you harder than you would believe possible. Shield Knight, Shovel Knight (2014) #damselindistress Okay thats it I can't take it seriously. Its way too laughable. If you have played shovel knight, the shovel knight IS USELESS without the Shield Knight. You can't think that is bad for women everywhere. When in the game she makes the game So much easier to play than when its just the shovel knight, You find out quite quickly that she is a major part of the shovel knight, and is that necessarily bad. Oh my god.... This is abosolutely dreadful. CONTEXT can go a long way.
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This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2014/09/11 22:41:35
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/11 22:42:46
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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Kojiro wrote: Melissia wrote:Her "damsel in distress" videos were factually correct, and actually quite fair and gentle to the games being discussed.
Just to nitpick, but Melissia, do you hold to the assertion she made in the first video that the physical strength disparity between men and women 'is a socially constructed myth'?
It is a socially enforced phenomenon, yes. I am physically stronger than many of the men I know-- and I'm by no means a mutant, I simply exercise more and smarter than the men I refer to. Women are discouraged from exercising and building strength because it is said that strong women are ugly, and women who develop muscular mass are often mocked for it. As a result of this societal push, most women live sedentary lifestyles, compared to the more active lifestyles of men.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/09/11 22:45:46
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/11 23:00:59
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta
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Melissia wrote: Kojiro wrote: Melissia wrote:Her "damsel in distress" videos were factually correct, and actually quite fair and gentle to the games being discussed.
Just to nitpick, but Melissia, do you hold to the assertion she made in the first video that the physical strength disparity between men and women 'is a socially constructed myth'?
It is a socially enforced phenomenon, yes.
I am physically stronger than many of the men I know-- and I'm by no means a mutant, I simply exercise more and smarter than the men I refer to. Women are discouraged from exercising and building strength because it is said that strong women are ugly, and women who develop muscular mass are often mocked for it. As a result of this societal push, most women live sedentary lifestyles, compared to the more active lifestyles of men.
LOL, that is the most ridiculous thing I've seen posted yet. Who are these mysterious people discouraging women from exercising?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/11 23:01:35
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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Legendary Master of the Chapter
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sirlynchmob wrote: Melissia wrote: Kojiro wrote: Melissia wrote:Her "damsel in distress" videos were factually correct, and actually quite fair and gentle to the games being discussed.
Just to nitpick, but Melissia, do you hold to the assertion she made in the first video that the physical strength disparity between men and women 'is a socially constructed myth'?
It is a socially enforced phenomenon, yes.
I am physically stronger than many of the men I know-- and I'm by no means a mutant, I simply exercise more and smarter than the men I refer to. Women are discouraged from exercising and building strength because it is said that strong women are ugly, and women who develop muscular mass are often mocked for it. As a result of this societal push, most women live sedentary lifestyles, compared to the more active lifestyles of men.
LOL, that is the most ridiculous thing I've seen posted yet. Who are these mysterious people discouraging women from exercising?
Idiots. Status Quo, Disney, Peers, Society.
Quite a few people actually.
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From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/11 23:04:46
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta
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Asherian Command wrote:sirlynchmob wrote: Melissia wrote: Kojiro wrote: Melissia wrote:Her "damsel in distress" videos were factually correct, and actually quite fair and gentle to the games being discussed.
Just to nitpick, but Melissia, do you hold to the assertion she made in the first video that the physical strength disparity between men and women 'is a socially constructed myth'?
It is a socially enforced phenomenon, yes.
I am physically stronger than many of the men I know-- and I'm by no means a mutant, I simply exercise more and smarter than the men I refer to. Women are discouraged from exercising and building strength because it is said that strong women are ugly, and women who develop muscular mass are often mocked for it. As a result of this societal push, most women live sedentary lifestyles, compared to the more active lifestyles of men.
LOL, that is the most ridiculous thing I've seen posted yet. Who are these mysterious people discouraging women from exercising?
Idiots. Status Quo, Disney, Peers, Society.
Quite a few people actually.
Disney you say? ok, then surely you can produce a link for that one.
society is pushing for more active and healthier lifestyles for everyone.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/11 23:07:40
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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Legendary Master of the Chapter
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sirlynchmob wrote: Asherian Command wrote:sirlynchmob wrote: Melissia wrote: Kojiro wrote: Melissia wrote:Her "damsel in distress" videos were factually correct, and actually quite fair and gentle to the games being discussed.
Just to nitpick, but Melissia, do you hold to the assertion she made in the first video that the physical strength disparity between men and women 'is a socially constructed myth'?
It is a socially enforced phenomenon, yes.
I am physically stronger than many of the men I know-- and I'm by no means a mutant, I simply exercise more and smarter than the men I refer to. Women are discouraged from exercising and building strength because it is said that strong women are ugly, and women who develop muscular mass are often mocked for it. As a result of this societal push, most women live sedentary lifestyles, compared to the more active lifestyles of men.
LOL, that is the most ridiculous thing I've seen posted yet. Who are these mysterious people discouraging women from exercising?
Idiots. Status Quo, Disney, Peers, Society.
Quite a few people actually.
Disney you say? ok, then surely you can produce a link for that one.
society is pushing for more active and healthier lifestyles for everyone.
Disney Princess.
Its not cute to have muscles.
(APPARENTLY)
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From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/11 23:13:38
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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Fashion magazines, guys who judge women based off of appearances (not always (though usually) outright called ugly, but still, strong women will frequently be assumed to be lesbians and referred to as such in very homophobic ways, often with the insinuation that only ugly women are lesbians), religious figures, etc. "She doesn't look like a proper lady" being the more old fashioned way to say it, but the meaning is no different.
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The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/11 23:22:50
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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Legendary Master of the Chapter
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Melissia wrote:Fashion magazines, guys who judge women based off of appearances (not always (though usually) outright called ugly, but still, strong women will frequently be assumed to be lesbians and referred to as such in very homophobic ways, often with the insinuation that only ugly women are lesbians), religious figures, etc. "She doesn't look like a proper lady" being the more old fashioned way to say it, but the meaning is no different.
Yep.
Most girls I know complain about this. And they are completely right.
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From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/11 23:24:02
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta
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Well I suppose it's a good thing we have video games that support exercising then, and female characters that are psychically fit to encourage women to exercise . Along with proper role models like the first lady, the president and his fitness challenge, Doctors who tell everyone to work out. Companies with fitness and wellness programs. The fitness magazines that are always next to the fashion ones.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/11 23:25:40
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control
Adelaide, South Australia
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Sarkeesians claim is that men and women are naturally equal.
Melissia wrote:I am physically stronger than many of the men I know-- and I'm by no means a mutant, I simply exercise more and smarter than the men I refer to. Women are discouraged from exercising and building strength because it is said that strong women are ugly, and women who develop muscular mass are often mocked for it. As a result of this societal push, most women live sedentary lifestyles, compared to the more active lifestyles of men.
But that doesn't address the claim of men and women being naturally equal.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/11 23:44:18
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau
USA
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So you're arguing men and women aren't equal
Right now, Anita is probably ready to post this;
Obvious trap is obvious
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/11 23:44:39
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/11 23:47:12
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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Legendary Master of the Chapter
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LordofHats wrote:So you're arguing men and women aren't equal
Right now, Anita is probably ready to post this;
Obvious trap is obvious 
Knowing her arguments yes.
I am an Egalitarian, but biology is biology. Certain things happen to women, that do not happen to men.
Physically men and women are different, but they do have a lot of similarities, more than just organs.
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From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/11 23:50:04
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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LordofHats wrote:So you're arguing men and women aren't equal Right now, Anita is probably ready to post this; Obvious trap is obvious 
Frankly, I refuse to touch the topic of biological differences with anyone on this forum. The last few times the topic came up, it was basically used by misogynists to justify saying women were worth less than men in almost every area of life outside of childbirth while outright calling any woman who entered the topic a blatant liar about any of her experiences on the matter. And I'm certainly not interested in discussing it here, in THIS thread, where it's not really relevant to the topic at hand anyway.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/11 23:50:41
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/11 23:52:08
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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Legendary Master of the Chapter
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Melissia wrote: LordofHats wrote:So you're arguing men and women aren't equal Right now, Anita is probably ready to post this; Obvious trap is obvious 
Frankly, I refuse to touch the topic of biological differences with anyone on this forum. The last few times the topic came up, it was basically used by misogynists to justify saying women were worth less than men in almost every area of life outside of childbirth while outright calling any woman who entered the topic a blatant liar about any of her experiences on the matter. And I'm certainly not interested in discussing it here, in THIS thread, where it's not really relevant to the topic at hand anyway. In my belief it is more on the less of the cans and cannots, but more on the physical attributes of being able to take pain more than a man can. Woman can take more pain than a guy can. Men usually have more muscle mass, but that does not mean women cannot have more. But I agree it is not the thread. But personally I would love to see more female characters better represented in gaming. Other than the object of lust.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/11 23:52:55
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