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It's also called the Madonna-Whore Complex. Not Madonna the singer, Madonna as in the virgin Mary. It's also closely tied to (and probably is in a circular feeding cycle with) Sensible Heroes, Skimpy Villains which just makes it more problematic because the underlying connotation is that only evil women like sex.

Isabella from the Dragon Age series comes to mind.
She is very...adventurous when it comes to that sort of thing.
She is also not a villain.

Yeah, but at least up till the end of act 2, she sure doesn't give a damn that her actions are really really screwing people, and;



EDIT: Spoiler tag failure.

Granted in DA:O Morrigan isn't exactly a prude, and she's by far the darkest of the protagonists in the game, a role Isabella shares in the sequel until the big you know what moment and we all look at that one character with a "wtf did you just do?!" face. The connotation remains that 'bad girls' like sex, and good girls are chaste/modest.

In DA:O, Morrigan is the easiest hit to land by a long shot, if you catch my drift

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Reds8n

You seem to be completely missing the point. Melissia did not mean she will consider a woman as one or the other, just that a woman will be considered one or the other. Not by her, by society in general. And that it is not a good thing.

 Sigvatr wrote:
In DA:O, Morrigan is the easiest hit to land by a long shot, if you catch my drift

But thus my point Compare her to Leliana, the sort of not exactly a nun character, Alistair, and even Zevran who himself isn't exactly a light sided character and you kind of see what I'm getting at. Granted, I love Morrigan's character. By far I liked her the most of the DA:O cast in part because she's darker and edgier (also, Leliana's voice actress suuuuucks) and her morals and personality just set her apart from the standard protagonist line up.

The same thing happens in ME2, where the most sexually open women are Jack and Morinth, and Morinth just runs off Death by Snoo Snoo. And then there's Jack, whose a complete emotional and mental roller coaster throwing in the stereotype that girls with rotten childhoods become sluts on top of the cake XD

Though now that I think about it, Tali probably stands out in ME2 as a complete subversion of the complex. She's portrayed as a fairly modest and positive young woman, but once the relationship kicks off she certainly wants to have sex (something that for her is risking death no less).


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sirlynchmob wrote:
I reject your false dichotomy as it's inherently nonsense.

Good. The Madonna-Whore complex is a false dichotomy and should be rejected

Aaaaand your point is?

sirlynchmob wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:
[Well if each woman MUST be one or the other, I guess that says a lot about you.

Only the sith deal in absolutes.

I reject your false dichotomy as it's inherently nonsense.

You seem to be completely missing the point. Melissia did not mean she will consider a woman as one or the other, just that a woman will be considered one or the other. Not by her, by society in general. And that it is not a good thing.

She brought it up, she stated they must be one or the other, so it is being done by her.

It's not a good thing. and society isn't doing it, Freud said "some" men do, some men is a small percentage of men, not all society.

but if society is doing it as well and 1/2 of society is made up of women, then women are doing it. feminist make up a part of society, so they are doing it as well. It's what you and mel are claiming.

Do you actually think Melissia operates under that idea or you intentionally being incredibly obtuse and ignorant?

I have to say I just find the interspecies romance thing downright bizarre, especially in cases where the biology is so different. Like here's a freaky bird-guy with bodily fluids that'll kill you. Gotta tap that ass. Whatever.

So long as we're listing examples here If I'm recalling correctly, Xenogears goes so far as to have a character point out that having sex is part of what makes her human.. though I played that game a long time ago. They definitely do it though.

At end of some of the romance paths in Persona 3/4, it's heavily implied some of the female characters are seeking to have sex with the protagonist. Though given the games are about high school kids, it's never out and stated explicitly.

I've seen a few games touch on women having sex without being cast as morally dubious indirectly. Theres a minor plot point in FF6 where two minor NPCs are in love and the girl winds up Teen Pregnant. Like they don't have sex on screen and the character is too minor to voice views on sex. However they make it clear it's something they mutually go after, and ultimately things work out OK for her - healthy baby and she lives to see the world get un-apocalypsed.

I'm straining to think of others, a couple examples come to mind for married characters but that doesn't really count.

EDIT: I just wanna say that this thread is the first to have made me use the forums ignore feature ever. Twice even.

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Reds8n

So you deny a false dichotomy by creating another false dichotomy? Well at least that ones not a cliche yet

And that right there wins the daft statement of the year. Just wow.

sirlynchmob wrote:
As she brought it up, yes.

Then, I question your ability to properly analyze and understand what other people mean.

sirlynchmob wrote:
As she is part of the society she claims MUST sort them, yes.

Remember how she never said anything about society? I did.

sirlynchmob wrote:
Maybe you guys should quit coming to her rescue and let her clarify her point, instead of reducing her to a damsel in distress.

That was funny. I think it is a good idea. That, or outright ignore you from now on.

Maybe you guys should quit coming to her rescue and let her clarify her point

I think she'd give me an ear full for trying, and honestly, you missed the point by such a wide margin I'm not sure why she'd bother clarifying it I'm just wondering if you'll even notice by how much you missed


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 Chongara wrote:
Gotta tap that ass. Whatever.

What can we say. Danger is sexy

Still, he did not use the expression white knight, which is quite a win already?

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Still, he did not use the expression white knight, which is quite a win already?

Hybrid please. My armor is balling.



They call me Hats the Splendid

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Reds8n

sirlynchmob wrote:
By her claim its such a widespread viewpoint, isn't it odd how the 4 people posting about it don't hold that viewpoint.

Four people chosen absolutely and totally at random, and certainly representative of the rest of the world .

How do you go through life completely unaware of the Madonna-Whore concept?

sirlynchmob wrote:
I bet we have at least 2 Christians in here out of the 4 that have posted today.

Even though this discussion miss the obvious bias toward getting more Christians, this is interesting. Who is Christian over here? I know I am not .

 LordofHats wrote:

 Chongara wrote:
Gotta tap that ass. Whatever.

What can we say. Danger is sexy

And have you heard his voice?

htarogoehS ot htao ym erows I ecrof ria eht denionj I nehw, esaelP

(this post is totally meta )

And you're still missing the point

Me? Christian?

Yeah, gonna have to say the only Ghost I'm acknowledging is Ghost Nappa;




T4S strikes again!

 LordofHats wrote:
htarogoehS ot htao ym erows I ecrof ria eht denionj I nehw, esaelP

Sheogorath?

Maybe Melissia is Christian, though. That would prove his point, would it not? I think it would completely prove his point.

For truth, how be it thus that merely expressing knowledge of a certain viewpoint verily causes yon to be backing it to the hilt?

Truly, thou must haveth issue in thy headcase to post yonder feces.

I was going to say that, but I don't want to go back to band camp.

Come on, MrDwhitey. Remember Rule #1. We all think his whole reasoning make no sense whatsoever, but we should say it in a respectful and friendly manner.

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Reds8n

That cute princess damsel seems in distress from people mocking her online. Quick, get me my white horse and my white armor, so I can slay that hat-wearing, misocanine troll!