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2014/09/16 21:08:55
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
Asherian Command wrote: I have said many times it should not be used all the time but it should at least be acknowledged more than it currently is.
.You've also said many times that women shouldn't be included unless these issues are added to the game.
He also said that there should be equal representation for all genders.
I'm... not sure how to reconcile that.
I'm not either, and he gets pissy with me any time I bring it up.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2014/09/16 21:24:54
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
Asherian Command wrote: Sometimes people don't trust others for their gender. Everyone always thinks I am saying of cat calls. I am thinking more of the lines of different characters react differently.
Some maybe rude, but not all of them. Some will be shy to the other gender. Some people are more comfortable around their gender and some are not.
Different strokes for different people.
That wouldn't be obnoxious that would be quite realistic for a game to portray.
Yeah, but what about, say, the career you choose? This should have at least the same amount of influence. You will get character that despise or fear magic users, other that scorn those that use ranged weapons… Yet tons of game do not build these distinction within them, and nobody complains about it.
Asherian Command wrote: But if used properly it can be effective, it can hurt you, and that is the main point to show what it is like to be in someone elses gender.
And therefore if you are someone of the same gender as the character, it can remind you of annoying things from real life, the kind of stuff you play video games to escape from.
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2014/09/16 21:37:10
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
LA LA. Anyway I am done with this thread, as It is not fruitless to explain my positions...
But on that note.
Hybrid-
You are getting far too specific.
Melissia-
Stop attacking people and thinking your opinion is a goldmine of knowledge. You can be wrong sometimes, stop nitpicking and take what someone says literally and do not misrepresent what they are saying.
LordOfHats-
Great Discussion, I look forward to your posts, they raise up excellent points in a non-aggressive way.
Manchu-
Completely agree. Though personally if you are going to include both genders, you might as well include transgender folk as well.
Everyone else who keep interjecting into the thread randomly-
Read my posts, critically analyze what I am saying. Do not jump on a band wagon. There is a reason why there is a large outcry about major news publications on the internet. Also look up the representations of women in most games, do not automatically assume it to be true in a male dominated culture.
You must also include point and click adventure games.
And finally.
Melissia -
I'm not either, and he gets pissy with me any time I bring it up.
Watch as I dance around the issue lalalala.
Stop hanging up on a few words. And I take pisses regularly thank you. But I do not piss on people, that is rude.
See what I did there? I took your comment literally. Something this thread needs to stop doing. :/
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/09/16 21:40:34
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
All of those I know have male PC, but I would be glad to discover new ones.
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
0008/07/13 21:43:56
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
LA LA. Anyway I am done with this thread, as It is not fruitless to explain my positions...
Probably because every time you've tried you've contradicted a previous statement.
Don't even get me started.
Why, afraid you'll contradict yourself yet again?
Seriously, if you have an explanation why you're arguing one thing while claiming you believe something else entirely, you've yet to offer it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/16 21:44:26
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2014/09/16 21:44:41
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
All of those I know have male PC, but I would be glad to discover new ones.
I know there's been "click on all the listed items in the room before the time runs out" games with female protagonists, but that's not really waht I'd call a point and click adventure myself :/
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/16 21:48:27
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2014/09/16 21:49:40
Subject: Re:What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
Oh, I thought you were speaking about the “old-school” (?) point and click games that are mentioned at 3:05. I barely know anything about hidden objects games. That was interesting! Thanks.
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2014/09/16 22:08:15
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
Final Journey, Resonance, Broken Age, Geheimakte (Secret Files?) Tunguska, Dark Eye: Memoria, Edna bricht aus, Cat Lady, Gray Matter, A New Beginning....please.
Sigvatr wrote: Final Journey, Resonance, Broken Age, Geheimakte (Secret Files?) Tunguska, Dark Eye: Memoria, Edna bricht aus, Cat Lady, Gray Matter, A New Beginning....please.
The only one I knew was Broken Age, which I got through the Humble Bundle. I has both a male and a female PC. And still not Act II. I heard about the Tunguska incident, that was a damn weird event!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/16 22:14:54
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2023/09/18 08:29:09
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
Was never a big point and click adventure game fan, myself. Only one I can remember owning and liking was the Myst series.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/16 22:25:22
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2014/09/16 22:27:01
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
Melissia wrote: Was never a big point and click adventure game fan, myself. Only one I can remember owning and liking was the Myst series.
Shivers was pretty good too if you can find a copy. Same vein as Myst, except you could also be killed by things. My only complaint was that the imagery was really cool until it got to the things that could hurt you, which were just cartoony.
LA LA. Anyway I am done with this thread, as It is not fruitless to explain my positions...
Probably because every time you've tried you've contradicted a previous statement.
Don't even get me started.
Ash, I think you might have a point. I just really can't figure out for the life of me what it is. I don't mean that to sound snide; I just have a genuinely difficult time understanding your posts sometimes.
I mean, consider in your above: " as It is not fruitless to explain my positions." Contextually speaking, I know that you meant either "it is fruitless" or "it is not fruitful", but we ended up getting the inverse there. It's a simple typo that I'm sure I've been more than guilty of before, but you DO tend to have a lot of them. Now consider 40 pages plus the other threads of the opportunity for that to happen and not get caught through context, and it's easy to understand why people are getting confused.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/16 22:32:29
Melissia wrote: Was never a big point and click adventure game fan, myself. Only one I can remember owning and liking was the Myst series.
Shivers was pretty good too if you can find a copy. Same vein as Myst, except you could also be killed by things. My only complaint was that the imagery was really cool until it got to the things that could hurt you, which were just cartoony.
LA LA. Anyway I am done with this thread, as It is not fruitless to explain my positions...
Probably because every time you've tried you've contradicted a previous statement.
Don't even get me started.
Ash, I think you might have a point. I just really can't figure out for the life of me what it is. I don't mean that to sound snide; I just have a genuinely difficult time understanding your posts sometimes.
I mean, consider in your above: " as It is not fruitless to explain my positions." Contextually speaking, I know that you meant either "it is fruitless" or "it is not fruitful", but we ended up getting the inverse there. It's a simple typo that I'm sure I've been more than guilty of before, but you DO tend to have a lot of them. Now consider 40 pages plus the other threads of the opportunity for that to happen and not get caught through context, and it's easy to understand why people are getting confused.
Yes I make typos. Typos are fun. And stupid at the same time....
I mean in 4 pages, where people are commenting on your post, and sending you feedback or critiquing or interacting with you. And you are the only one defending your position and people are jumping onto the argument. Yes I make mistakes because there are so many people swarming me.
If you go back you can see what I mean.
Plus lets not forget I am also involved in the gamergate issue and I have been for several weeks. And the exhaustion has started to pile up and up. and up... And up.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/16 22:46:44
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2015/02/02 19:20:45
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
nomotog wrote: My rule is that if I am the only one defending my position , then I stop and rethink my position because I may just be wrong.
OR you know I am actually educated in the field. And people don't know what they are actually talking about.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
nomotog wrote: My rule is that if I am the only one defending my position , then I stop and rethink my position because I may just be wrong.
OR you know I am actually educated in the field. And people don't know what they are actually talking about because they have not studied game mechanics.
People should read what I Have read.
Talk to designers.
I mean there are certain things that I think that should be addressed. Such as genders being playable. IF you make a game you need to address that there are different ways people react to genders.
And anyone saying why don't people in games just have people reacting to those in careers. That is basically second nature in games now. You can see it quite often in mass effect and in call of duty.
Do not think it doesn't help. It does it adds to the narrative and characterization even further.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/16 22:58:22
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/09/16 22:59:14
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
Either way, we're seeing an increase in the number of games that allow for genders to be swapped, and that is good for the gaming community. It's just that having that feature shouldn't be a stopping point, but simply the next step to a more immersive gaming world.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/16 23:02:26
Actions define a person.
2014/09/16 23:03:18
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
Either way, we're seeing an increase in the number of games that allow for genders to be swapped, and that is good for the gaming community. It's just that having that feature shouldn't be a stopping point, but simply the next step to a better gaming world.
correct.
Justifying the reason for adding it.
It is not the misogynist view of saying that I believe the woman gender should be justified while the male is allowed in.
I am stating that the view of most game designers is that adding a woman gender is sort of second nature for ORPGs or RPGS. You need to justify the reason why you added, it other than to appease the crowd, there needs to be a reason for that feature. You know what I think it should be justified by? Because you want to see equality in the games industry.
But not all games should have this feature
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/09/16 23:14:20
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
Asherian Command wrote: It is not the misogynist view of saying that I believe the woman gender should be justified while the male is allowed in.
If you don't believe that, then you should stop advocating for it. Because you've BEEN advocating it constantly. And you're STILL advocating it-- you still don't even MENTION requiring developers to justify the existence of men, while you constantly attack anyone who wants female characters DEMANDING that they justify themselves. All you've done for more than forty pages is demand women characters follow a stricter standard than men characters.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/09/16 23:19:57
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2014/09/16 23:21:09
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
misogynist or not, you are kind of showing a element of the problem with your line of thinking. It's the male as default the women are special issue. Women don't want to be special. (Well not anymore then normal. Everyone wants to be a little special.) Saying something like you need to justified a female character plays right into this idea and this idea leads to issues down the road. Like how we have a sever shortage of female characters in games.
Now the issue of gender select is a different issue though that plays around with other elements. I am not sure if your trying to say that female characters need to be justified or if gender select needs to be justified.
2014/09/16 23:35:49
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
nomotog wrote: misogynist or not, you are kind of showing a element of the problem with your line of thinking. It's the male as default the women are special issue. Women don't want to be special. (Well not anymore then normal. Everyone wants to be a little special.) Saying something like you need to justified a female character plays right into this idea and this idea leads to issues down the road. Like how we have a sever shortage of female characters in games.
Now the issue of gender select is a different issue though that plays around with other elements. I am not sure if your trying to say that female characters need to be justified or if gender select needs to be justified.
The Gender select needs to be justified.
It is a severe problem if you think I am acting misogynistic.
And I have not been doing this for 40 pages XD. I came up a while ago. But I didn't talk that much.
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/09/16 23:52:25
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
nomotog wrote: misogynist or not, you are kind of showing a element of the problem with your line of thinking. It's the male as default the women are special issue. Women don't want to be special. (Well not anymore then normal. Everyone wants to be a little special.) Saying something like you need to justified a female character plays right into this idea and this idea leads to issues down the road. Like how we have a sever shortage of female characters in games.
Now the issue of gender select is a different issue though that plays around with other elements. I am not sure if your trying to say that female characters need to be justified or if gender select needs to be justified.
The Gender select needs to be justified.
It is a severe problem if you think I am acting misogynistic.
And I have not been doing this for 40 pages XD. I came up a while ago. But I didn't talk that much.
Gender select fits in some games, but not others. It kind of depends on what kind of game it is and what it is trying to do... Ya I think I already say this before actually. This maybe a full circle. Though this time I think I will phrase my thinking backwards. A defined character should be justified. If it is important to the story for the MC to be male, then you can use a male. (ZP mentioned in an extra punctuation how James Sutherland's character really revolves around him being a man.) If you can't justfie why a a particular trait is required for a character, then you might as well let it be customized or left undefined.
2014/09/17 00:00:01
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
nomotog wrote: misogynist or not, you are kind of showing a element of the problem with your line of thinking. It's the male as default the women are special issue. Women don't want to be special. (Well not anymore then normal. Everyone wants to be a little special.) Saying something like you need to justified a female character plays right into this idea and this idea leads to issues down the road. Like how we have a sever shortage of female characters in games.
Now the issue of gender select is a different issue though that plays around with other elements. I am not sure if your trying to say that female characters need to be justified or if gender select needs to be justified.
The Gender select needs to be justified.
It is a severe problem if you think I am acting misogynistic.
And I have not been doing this for 40 pages XD. I came up a while ago. But I didn't talk that much.
Gender select fits in some games, but not others. It kind of depends on what kind of game it is and what it is trying to do... Ya I think I already say this before actually. This maybe a full circle. Though this time I think I will phrase my thinking backwards. A defined character should be justified. If it is important to the story for the MC to be male, then you can use a male. (ZP mentioned in an extra punctuation how James Sutherland's character really revolves around him being a man.) If you can't justfie why a a particular trait is required for a character, then you might as well let it be customized or left undefined.
Correct.
You cannot have a man in a womans role. (Such as the role of a mother)
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/09/17 00:12:25
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
nomotog wrote: misogynist or not, you are kind of showing a element of the problem with your line of thinking. It's the male as default the women are special issue. Women don't want to be special. (Well not anymore then normal. Everyone wants to be a little special.) Saying something like you need to justified a female character plays right into this idea and this idea leads to issues down the road. Like how we have a sever shortage of female characters in games.
Now the issue of gender select is a different issue though that plays around with other elements. I am not sure if your trying to say that female characters need to be justified or if gender select needs to be justified.
The Gender select needs to be justified.
It is a severe problem if you think I am acting misogynistic.
And I have not been doing this for 40 pages XD. I came up a while ago. But I didn't talk that much.
Gender select fits in some games, but not others. It kind of depends on what kind of game it is and what it is trying to do... Ya I think I already say this before actually. This maybe a full circle. Though this time I think I will phrase my thinking backwards. A defined character should be justified. If it is important to the story for the MC to be male, then you can use a male. (ZP mentioned in an extra punctuation how James Sutherland's character really revolves around him being a man.) If you can't justfie why a a particular trait is required for a character, then you might as well let it be customized or left undefined.
Correct.
You cannot have a man in a womans role. (Such as the role of a mother)
I wouldn't say that conclusively. The idea is that you would have to justify why you couldn't use a man in a mother's roll and I think you would have a hard time doing that. The male mom is kind of established trope. Take pinocchio for example.
2014/09/17 00:20:00
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
Asserting that men cannot be kind, nurturing, protective, caring, and loving (all traits associated with being "motherly") and therefor those roles can only be played by women is rather bizarre, and unfounded by reality.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/17 00:20:16
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2014/09/17 00:21:14
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
^True but you will always be missing a female leading person that a son or daughter will always need a female figure in their life they can identify with.
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/09/17 00:24:20
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
Asherian Command wrote: ^True but you will always be missing a female leading person that a son or daughter will always need a female figure in their life they can identify with.
Why?
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
20142014/09/17 17:02:06
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
Asherian Command wrote: ^True but you will always be missing a female leading person that a son or daughter will always need a female figure in their life they can identify with.
You will never find me an advocate of gender essentialism or other kinds of fundamentalist crap, so no, I don't think that will be missing. A single father can provide a wonderful childhood to their son or daughter, just as a single mother can, or a lesbian or gay couple, or a straight couple. The loving care a parent provides is more important than the parent's gender.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
oint-and-click_adventure_games
