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2014/09/30 19:19:47
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau
USA
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 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
First, she chose to be a woman, and second, well, that is one male character, not men. I made that clear in the rest of the message.
And here I was thinking I'd get to have some fun screwing with people explaining Poison 
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2014/09/30 19:20:33
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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Legendary Master of the Chapter
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Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
First, she chose to be a woman, and second, well, that is one male character, not men. I made that clear in the rest of the message.
Nope.
You got to get the whole trio working together: clothes, body type, pose.
The guy on that first picture seems to be holding that sword wrong!
Look up the Female Gaze.
And you will see differently women are attracted to things, while men are attracted to other things.
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From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war. |
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2014/09/30 19:22:32
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta
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so if the discussion is just about those "90% of fighting games" Why is the discussion about "games" implying all games, not just fighting games.
as there is 0% serialization in all other genres, which is at a minimum of 10 different categories, we are left with 9% of games with sexual characters.
So there is, in reality, only a minor problem with how women are represented in games, but no where near a significant amount when you include all other sub categories.
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2014/09/30 19:24:19
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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Hallowed Canoness
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Do you mean this:
http://www.shortpacked.com/2011/comic/book-13/05-the-death-of-snkrs/falseequivalence/ Automatically Appended Next Post:
You are the only one here who ever said so. I mentioned a bunch of MOBA. I could mention more.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/30 19:25:44
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1 |
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2014/09/30 19:27:15
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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Legendary Master of the Chapter
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not applicable to all females though :/ Some women are attracted to those characters because of that. She may not be attracted to it, but it is a theory. The Female Gaze is a Gaze trope about the way a work is presented as from a female perspective or reflects female attitudes, either because of the creator's gender or because it is deliberately aimed at a female audience. While it can contribute to it, Female Gaze is not restricted to looking at sexy men but is more importantly about the expectations of how the (presumptive) audience relates to the work.
Female Gaze is (almost) a Distaff Counterpart to Male Gaze, the trope page for which is currently full of "ogling women" examples but extends beyond that into the stuff that's currently on Most Writers Are Male. We write "almost" because of the fact that Male Gaze is pervasive and the default for works aimed at mixed-gender audiences, whereas Female Gaze is mainly found in works that are either assumed to be exclusively for women, like soap operas, chick flicks, shoujo manga, or more idiosyncratic and personal works by female creators. Besides, it's only fair that if straight men and lesbians receive Fanservice, straight women and gay men should be able to get some of their own.
May overlap with Homosexual Male Gaze. Compare Eating the Eye Candy and Longing Look.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/30 19:31:05
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war. |
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2014/09/30 19:30:47
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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No. That is irrelevant and narrowing the list based off of it would be utterly nonsensical.
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The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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2014/09/30 19:31:25
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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Trazyn's Museum Curator
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Yes, because the chippendales totally look like that
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What I have
 ~4100
 ~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
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2014/09/30 19:33:02
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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Did you have any point whatsoever in posting that image? I'm not sure what you're trying to get at.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/09/30 19:33:25
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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2014/09/30 19:33:49
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta
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Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:
You are the only one here who ever said so. I mentioned a bunch of MOBA. I could mention more.
And that's a sub catagory of 'real time strategy games' Which still doesn't equate to any significant amount. By adding in the sub categories the number of games for comparison, then there is No Serialization in video games. Which is good because there is no problem with how women are being represented in games.
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2014/09/30 19:35:02
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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Trazyn's Museum Curator
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Pointing out the flaw in that comic's argument. It shows only one possible portrayal. It does not explain the success of the above, who do not appear to be built for dexterity, nor do they appear to have large expressive eyes.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/30 19:37:37
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
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2014/09/30 19:36:50
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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Legendary Master of the Chapter
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 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Pointing out the flaw in that comic's argument.
It only one possible portrayal. It does not explain the success of the above, who do not appear to be built for dexterity, nor do they appear to have large expressive eyes.
Correct.
Girls on tumblr endlessly reblog a man with short hair and big abs.
For some reason.
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From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war. |
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2014/09/30 19:37:21
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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And that flaw supposedly is?
Because the reason you gave is irrelevant to the point that was being made.
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The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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2014/09/30 19:38:31
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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Legendary Master of the Chapter
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 Melissia wrote:And that flaw supposedly is?
Because the reason you gave is irrelevant to the point that was being made.
No it wasn't.
The female gaze is something very related to all of that. It is what women find attractive in someway.
Hybrid makes those statements and forgets how easily refutable it is.
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From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war. |
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2014/09/30 19:51:35
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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An irrelevant idea to the topic at hand, and you've yet to prove otherwise. A massively ignorant statement-- as if I saw a few men drooling over a bald tattooed musclebound biker girl with burn scars on half of her body from a nasty wipe-out and stated all men find bald, tattooed, musclebound biker girls with burn scars to be attractive. This is what you have done, and this is wrong and intellectually dishonest. While some men no doubt would find that extremely alluring, a lot of other men would be put off by it. Just as some women might find slabs of meat in the general shape of a man attractive, quite a few others do not. Furthermore, I could actually ask men what they find attractive to find out, instead of observing a tiny sample size and then trying to make some sexist extrapolation about all men, such as like you're doing about women. If it was easily refutable, he would have refuted it instead of posting some irrelevant garbage.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/09/30 19:53:02
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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2014/09/30 19:55:47
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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Hallowed Canoness
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Yeah, and some men are attracted to women with small breasts rather than… whatever those are.
So?
 Asherian Command wrote:The Female Gaze is a Gaze trope about the way a work is presented as from a female perspective or reflects female attitudes, either because of the creator's gender or because it is deliberately aimed at a female audience.
So, that is your definition of Soul Calibur  .
Notice how the game is NOT mentioned on your source:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FemaleGaze
You really need to look further than simply “How much skin is exposed”. See my two barbarians example. You certainly know the one.
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"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1 |
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2014/09/30 19:55:54
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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Legendary Master of the Chapter
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Melissia wrote:An irrelevant idea to the topic at hand, and you've yet to prove otherwise. A massively ignorant statement-- as if I saw a few men drooling over a bald tattooed musclebound biker girl with burn scars on half of her body from a nasty wipe-out and stated all men find bald, tattooed, musclebound biker girls with burn scars to be attractive. This is what you have done, and this is wrong and intellectually dishonest. While some men no doubt would find that extremely alluring, a lot of other men would be put off by it. Just as some women might find slabs of meat in the general shape of a man attractive, quite a few others do not.
Furthermore, I could actually ask men what they find attractive to find out, instead of observing a tiny sample size and then trying to make some sexist extrapolation about all men, such as like you're doing about women. If it was easily refutable, he would have refuted it instead of posting some irrelevant garbage.
I think it happens in both genders.
ITs not very sexist in anyway.
It is an observation.
Both genders are attracted to things that the other is not. Unless in certain cases they do identify as male or female or possess other likes and dislikes. It is a theory not fact.
I am not saying it is truth to beheld,
But it is an idea.
Saying one is oversexualized over another is not true. But oversexualization can occur, if it shows off more assets than the other gender does.
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From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war. |
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2014/09/30 20:01:54
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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So is "men are violent". Or "men are rapists". Or "men are tyrants". These are still sexist things to say. You have yet to prove this assertion or contradict the vast amount of evidence presented to the contrary. Simply repeating yourself doesn't make it true, just like your repeated assertions that you're for equality are still also false given that you demonstrably oppose it.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/30 20:02:10
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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2014/09/30 20:03:56
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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Trazyn's Museum Curator
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I was under the impression that Hybrid was claiming that the Female Gaze would apply to characters like in that comic.
However, the Chippendales are a very popular strip-tease group that caters to women, which proves that argument to be a tad incorrect.
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This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2014/09/30 20:05:58
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
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2014/09/30 20:04:34
Subject: Re:What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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Kid_Kyoto
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Yeah... I'm out.
Good luck everyone. I hope you all find whatever unlikely solution that will seem to make everyone happy, or, I guess, rather, the least overall pissed.
I'm still less certain of what it was now than I was before, but I'm now pretty certain I can't help.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/09/30 20:05:36
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2014/09/30 20:09:23
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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Hallowed Canoness
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sirlynchmob wrote:By adding in the sub categories the number of games for comparison, then there is No Serialization in video games.
So, you are expecting me to list for your own pleasure all the games that sexualize female character and will pretend that all games that were not listed are non-sexualized. You can go play with yourself, you know  .
CthuluIsSpy wrote:[It does not explain the success of the above, who do not appear to be built for dexterity, nor do they appear to have large expressive eyes.
Compare:
Clooney:
VS
Schwarzenegger
https://encrypted.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=bodybuilder&tbs=imgo:1
VS
https://encrypted.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=sexiest%20man&tbs=imgo:1
You might notice that “Built for dexterity” still means “More muscled than 90% of the French population”, at least.
Actually, I would post a picture of my brother's torso as an example of an extremely sexy build, but
a) I do not have one, and
b) I will not post picture of my brother on the internet  .
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"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1 |
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2014/09/30 20:10:11
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/30 20:10:19
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2014/09/30 20:13:28
Subject: Re:What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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Hallowed Canoness
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The fact I am not into men does not mean I will not notice it when they are attractive. I am not feeling attracted though, I am feeling jealous .
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"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1 |
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2014/09/30 20:13:32
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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Trazyn's Museum Curator
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The George Clooney link is broken. You may want to fix that. Automatically Appended Next Post: Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:The fact I am not into men does not mean I will not notice it when they are attractive. I am not feeling attracted though, I am feeling jealous .
I think his concern was more about him being your brother.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/30 20:14:08
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
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2014/09/30 20:15:02
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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To be fair, it got "weird" the moment we had straight men posting images of what they thought straight women were attracted to
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The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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2014/09/30 20:15:48
Subject: Re:What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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Hallowed Canoness
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Works for me. Might be some anti-embedding measures. Anyway, just google “male underwear advertisement” and you will get sexy men. Compare that to bodybuilders. Automatically Appended Next Post: Melissia wrote:To be fair, it got "weird" the moment we had straight men posting images of what they thought straight women were attracted to
Are you implying gay men know better?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/30 20:16:27
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1 |
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2014/09/30 20:18:20
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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Trazyn's Museum Curator
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Melissia wrote:To be fair, it got "weird" the moment we had straight men posting images of what they thought straight women were attracted to
I have data to support it though. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chippendales The Chippendales perform in a ten-million dollar theater and lounge built specifically for them at the Rio All Suite Hotel and Casino in Las Vegas. Annually, the official men of Chippendales are seen by almost two million people worldwide, performing in more than 25 cities in the U.S., 23 cities in Central and South America, 60 European cities, four Asian countries, and eight South African cities.[3]
Seems they are quite popular. If they were not attractive, would they have this much success? Isn't one of the selling points of a stripper, be it man or woman, is to be attractive? Also, you are incorrect. Weird was when I pitched the idea for Transsexual Transylvanian Rampage : Electric Boogaloo. I will pile drive a prehistoric giant lizard in corset and heels one day.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/30 20:24:27
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
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2014/09/30 20:20:03
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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Legendary Master of the Chapter
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Melissia wrote:To be fair, it got "weird" the moment we had straight men posting images of what they thought straight women were attracted to
I just used google and asked a few friends what they found appealing. Are you implying gay men know better?
To quote one of my gay friends. "We have a great taste in clothing, but honey your clothing is  ." (Please notice this was at prom) Gay Men probably do.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/30 20:25:45
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war. |
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2014/09/30 20:26:08
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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Hallowed Canoness
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CthuluIsSpy, your whole idea is that the Chippendales are not looking at all like in the comic. First, big scoop, a comic drawing is not realistic, and will put more emphasis on certain body part than it would be physically possible. The Chippendale do not have big eyes because, well, they are actual men and not drawing. Second, they are way less muscled than bodybuilders like Schwarzenegger. There is just no possible comparison.
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"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1 |
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2014/09/30 20:28:59
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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Trazyn's Museum Curator
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Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:CthuluIsSpy, your whole idea is that the Chippendales are not looking at all like in the comic. First, big scoop, a comic drawing is not realistic, and will put more emphasis on certain body part than it would be physically possible. The Chippendale do not have big eyes because, well, they are actual men and not drawing. Second, they are way less muscled than bodybuilders like Schwarzenegger. There is just no possible comparison.
They are still more muscular than that sexiest man google link you posted, and than in that drawing.
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What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
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2014/09/30 20:32:43
Subject: Re:What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
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Hallowed Canoness
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And that most pictures of men underwear's adverts. Because they are on the muscled side of sexy, I guess. Next to the limit. But really, “sexiest men” is about as straightforward a research term as you can get, so I am not sure what you need to convince you. Even an actual woman telling you about it seems not enough either .
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"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1 |
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