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2014/10/14 16:41:35
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Well, sex is a characteristic that an organism possesses that enables to reproduce, is it not? Hamlet is not an organism, he is a fictional construct.
Like I said, you are being overly literal. Hamlet is certainly "an organism" in his own terms, in the fictional setting in which he exists.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Well, sex is a characteristic that an organism possesses that enables to reproduce, is it not? Hamlet is not an organism, he is a fictional construct.
Like I said, you are being overly literal. Hamlet is certainly "an organism" in his own terms, in the fictional setting in which he exists.
Alright fair enough. I wasn't considering it from that perspective.
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2014/10/14 16:54:30
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
Think of it this way, if a fictional character cannot have a sex, could there be a such thing as a trangendered character? I mean, aside from claiming "transgender" is itself a gender (which is not what many trans people seem to think).
Manchu wrote: Are you asking whether what gender means is relevant to how gender is portrayed?
I am asking precisely what I wrote. Is there a need to investigate those intricacies of gender when really, there is hardly any discussion about what constitute a female character except one member asking once if one specific bloodline being gendered make sense?
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2014/10/14 17:01:40
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
I am wondering, are we having a language barrier obstacle or are you just arguing for the sake of it?
Can you, please, stop immediately asking if there's a "language barrier obstacle" whenever people argue and have a differing viewpoint? It sounds extremely condescending and you do this quite often. Thanks.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/14 17:35:28
Also -- not sure why golems cannot have gender (or at least be gendered).
For the very same reason Necrons do not have a gender - they are soulless, dead automatons, tools, if you want so. They are "its".
Actually, they do have a gender as of Fall of Orpheus; there's a Necron Overlady known as the Queen of Oblivion.
Which makes things that less interesting. I'm tired of aliens having a distinguishable male / female gender. There needs to be more aliens that are actually...alien.
Orks.
They are quite literally the most alien species in 40k. Even more than Tyranids.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/10/14 19:50:23
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2014/10/14 19:55:36
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
Also -- not sure why golems cannot have gender (or at least be gendered).
For the very same reason Necrons do not have a gender - they are soulless, dead automatons, tools, if you want so. They are "its".
Actually, they do have a gender as of Fall of Orpheus; there's a Necron Overlady known as the Queen of Oblivion.
Which makes things that less interesting. I'm tired of aliens having a distinguishable male / female gender. There needs to be more aliens that are actually...alien.
Orks.
They are quite literally the most alien species in 40k. Even more than Tyranids.
Haha, that is correct. I can't believe I forgot about them
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2014/10/14 20:07:26
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
True, but if someone feels that sexual reproduction isn't alien enough, they're the ONLY species in 40k that doesn't use sexual reproduction-- even Tyranids use hive-based-insectoid style sexual reproduction with their Norm Queens.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2014/10/14 20:46:06
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
Melissia wrote: True, but if someone feels that sexual reproduction isn't alien enough, they're the ONLY species in 40k that doesn't use sexual reproduction-- even Tyranids use hive-based-insectoid style sexual reproduction with their Norm Queens.
Depends on whether you count Daemons as a species, I guess.
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
2014/10/14 21:06:07
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
There's only four demons. They don't reproduce. The rest are just dandruff.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2014/10/14 21:08:59
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
I think this video sets out the flaws in the critical position on this topic.
Specifically, I'd point to the latter part, where he criticizes that notion that sexualization is bad or devaluing to a character. Simply taking offense at the portrayal of these characters is not a good reason to demand they change, straight up.
Go and check out the CYOA thread for some escapist fun
You know we already did cover that too. Though the rule of the thread (I that I want to try and have at least) is you don't just drop a video and walk off. The idea is for you personally to post what you think. I kind of don't care what someone on youtube thinks.
2014/10/14 21:46:55
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
Melissia wrote: True, but if someone feels that sexual reproduction isn't alien enough, they're the ONLY species in 40k that doesn't use sexual reproduction-- even Tyranids use hive-based-insectoid style sexual reproduction with their Norm Queens.
The Necrons do not reproduce either, although it's debatable whether they still count as a "race" given that they are soulless automatons without an own mind.
Kali wrote: Specifically, I'd point to the latter part, where he criticizes that notion that sexualization is bad or devaluing to a character.
I am going to copy over something I posted somewhere, because I am lazy and writing the same thing twice is not useful.
You know, in a similar debate I am having on another place, someone mentioned Orchid's finisher (from the game Killer Instinct). I went and checked out what it was. Basically she shows the opponent her boobs, and they do a heart attack, or in a mirror match, die out of jealousy. And I thought to myself that, as a guy I would actually find it pretty fine if some fighting game included a character that was just super-hyper-sexy, and that would do the same kind of finisher by showing his man-junk to the enemy instead of boobs. But if the only two or three male characters from the game where all super-sexualized like that, it would be a bit annoying, especially if none of the female characters were. And when I would start getting really pissed off is when all games started including almost only characters like that, implying that non-sexy males are not interesting and that male exists only to be sexy or something in that vein. But one character like that per game would be quite funny and enjoyable, actually. Soul Calibur has Voldo, but he is somehow more creepy than sexy.
I am pretty sure most humans do enjoy feeling attractive to others, and playing a super-attractive character is no doubt some fantasy quite a bunch of us could really enjoy.
Problem is:
- when it happens only to one gender
- when it happens to every, or even most character of said gender, becoming an almost mandatory design element.
(As for the video, a few things:
- Spiderman is really the exception among male character, in that he do get tons of poses no other male hero would take and that are way closer to poses used on female characters. Obviously he will not get some b&b pose, though.
- In that spiderman cover, his add does not come out nearly as much as spiderwoman's
- Neither superman nor spiderman looks naked in the loin area (thankfully)
- That was totally not Spidey's testicles, that was his butt.
- I have no idea why that cover raised such a controversy when really it does not seem any worse than tons of other covers)
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sigvatr wrote: although it's debatable whether they still count as a "race" given that they are soulless automatons without an own mind.
Are you in denial of the whole newcron fluff?
If you are, that is a perfectly reasonable position that I do respect, but please do mention it to avoid misunderstandings.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/14 21:51:51
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2014/10/14 21:57:51
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
Melissia wrote: True, but if someone feels that sexual reproduction isn't alien enough, they're the ONLY species in 40k that doesn't use sexual reproduction-- even Tyranids use hive-based-insectoid style sexual reproduction with their Norm Queens.
The Necrons do not reproduce either, although it's debatable whether they still count as a "race" given that they are soulless automatons without an own mind.
Overlords do have their own minds.
Don't necrons know how to transfer minds? Can't they duplicate said minds and place them into different bodies?
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2014/10/14 22:51:13
Subject: Re:What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
Are you in denial of the whole newcron fluff?
If you are, that is a perfectly reasonable position that I do respect, but please do mention it to avoid misunderstandings.
Are you in denial of the whole newcron fluff? If you are, that is a perfectly reasonable position that I do respect, but please do mention it to avoid misunderstandings.
TruCron through and through o/
Heresy! WardCrons best crons. Also, 2+2 = 5. GW told me so.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/14 22:53:11
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2014/10/14 23:26:53
Subject: Re:What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
In any case, this thread has been quite helpful for me. It's been very good for helping me sort of work out where my personal opinions are on the nuances of the topic.
2014/10/15 00:00:59
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
~4100
~1660
