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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/08 07:52:11
Subject: [2000] - Ogre Kingdoms - (Competitive?) UPDATE Sept 12 (Post 25)
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Boom! Leman Russ Commander
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I managed to bag a ton of Ogre stuff for my birthday, which has means I now have enough for a 2000 point army.
Slaughtermaster: Greedy Fist; Fencer's Blades; Glittering Scales; Level 4 Wizard 385
Bruiser: Enchanted Shield; Biting Blade; Dragonbane Gem; heavy armour; Battle Standard 154
7 Ironguts: Bellower; standard bearer (Standard of Discipline; Look-out Gnoblar) 341
6 Ogres: ironfists; Bellower; standard bearer 212
6 Ogres: ironfists; Bellower; standard bearer 212
4 Leadbelchers 172
4 Leadbelchers 172
1 Sabretusk 21
1 Sabretusk 21
2 Mournfang Cavalry: heavy armour; ironfists 140
Ironblaster 170
2,000 points
Am I doing this right for Ogres at 2k? My local meta has just had a ressurection of interest in WHFB and it's crazy competitive.
I've also built a 2500 point list, which is the points goal of the army:
Slaughtermaster: Greedy Fist; Fencer's Blades; Glittering Scales; Level 4 Wizard 385
Bruiser: Enchanted Shield; Dragonbane Gem; Sword of Striking; heavy armour; Battle Standard 159
7 Ironguts: Gutlord; Bellower; standard bearer (Standard of Discipline; Look-out Gnoblar) 351
6 Ogres: ironfists; Bellower; standard bearer 212
6 Ogres: ironfists; Bellower; standard bearer 212
6 Leadbelchers 258
6 Leadbelchers 258
1 Sabretusk 21
1 Sabretusk 21
2 Mournfang Cavalry: heavy armour; ironfists 140
2 Mournfang Cavalry: heavy armour; ironfists 140
Ironblaster 170
Ironblaster 170
2,497 points
Any pointers to a new Ogre player on those two lists?
The Ogres seem to be pretty much a cookie cutter army.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/09/12 22:05:07
Mr Mystery wrote:Suffice to say, if any of this is actually true, then clearly Elvis is hiding behind my left testicle, and Lord Lucan behind the right. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/08 13:58:40
Subject: [2000] - Ogre Kingdoms - Organised Thuggery - The Ogre Scrum (Competitive?)
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Crazed Savage Orc
K.C. Kansas
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Don't think you can take magic armor on a wizard (Slaughtermaster)
And you are right pretty much a cookie cutter - minus some magic items.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/08 13:59:27
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/08 14:04:59
Subject: [2000] - Ogre Kingdoms - Organised Thuggery - The Ogre Scrum (Competitive?)
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Auspicious Skink Shaman
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cptjoeyg wrote:Don't think you can take magic armor on a wizard (Slaughtermaster)
And you are right pretty much a cookie cutter - minus some magic items.
Since a slaughtermaster can take an ironfist it's been FAQed that they can take magic armour as well.
@Puscifer: I like your lists. I like that you have MMU instead of the one gutstar. It's too easy to redirect it
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/08 14:07:00
Ogre Kingdoms: 5 500 pts
Lizardmen: 6 000 pts
Undead Legions: 20 000 pts |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/08 16:12:46
Subject: Re:[2000] - Ogre Kingdoms - Organised Thuggery - The Ogre Scrum (Competitive?)
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Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw
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Ogre Kingdoms FAQ wrote:Q: As Butchers and Slaughtermasters can take an ironfist, does this mean that they can also wear magical armour? (p32)
A: Yes.
Designers Note: I have to hold my hands up for not spotting that allowing a Butcher or Slaughtermaster to take an ironfist, would also allow them to take magic armour. Allowing them access to magic armour certainly wasn’t my intention, and it’s something we’ll certainly fix when we do the next edition of the Ogre Kingdoms army book. However, after much debate, we’ve decided that it does not give the Ogres an unfair advantage, so we’ve decided to leave the rule as it is written for the time being. That said, I’d personally recommend that you avoid giving your Butchers and Slaughtermasters magic armour – doing otherwise goes against the spirit, if not the letter, of the rule.
In other words, technically you can, but it's a bit of a  move.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/08 17:31:41
Subject: Re:[2000] - Ogre Kingdoms - Organised Thuggery - The Ogre Scrum (Competitive?)
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Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant
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grendel083 wrote:Ogre Kingdoms FAQ wrote:Q: As Butchers and Slaughtermasters can take an ironfist, does this mean that they can also wear magical armour? (p32)
A: Yes.
Designers Note: I have to hold my hands up for not spotting that allowing a Butcher or Slaughtermaster to take an ironfist, would also allow them to take magic armour. Allowing them access to magic armour certainly wasn’t my intention, and it’s something we’ll certainly fix when we do the next edition of the Ogre Kingdoms army book. However, after much debate, we’ve decided that it does not give the Ogres an unfair advantage, so we’ve decided to leave the rule as it is written for the time being. That said, I’d personally recommend that you avoid giving your Butchers and Slaughtermasters magic armour – doing otherwise goes against the spirit, if not the letter, of the rule.
In other words, technically you can, but it's a bit of a  move.
In the end its most cost efficient to ignore armor and give your sm a 4++ and rely on that, his 5wounds, and the lore atribute of the maw
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/08 17:38:30
Subject: Re:[2000] - Ogre Kingdoms - Organised Thuggery - The Ogre Scrum (Competitive?)
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Charging Bull
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Looks like a nice list, not over the top, but still can win. only recomendation i have is drop the fist and take a war save, at first i loved the fist, but then my SM died far to often, Fencer's Blades; Glittering Scales and a talasman of preservation is one of the best combos on an SM right now.
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2011 Throne of Skulls Champion (Lord of the Rings)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/08 20:45:14
Subject: Re:[2000] - Ogre Kingdoms - Organised Thuggery - The Ogre Scrum (Competitive?)
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Sinister Shapeshifter
The Lair of Vengeance....Poole.
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namiel wrote: grendel083 wrote:Ogre Kingdoms FAQ wrote:Q: As Butchers and Slaughtermasters can take an ironfist, does this mean that they can also wear magical armour? (p32)
A: Yes.
Designers Note: I have to hold my hands up for not spotting that allowing a Butcher or Slaughtermaster to take an ironfist, would also allow them to take magic armour. Allowing them access to magic armour certainly wasn’t my intention, and it’s something we’ll certainly fix when we do the next edition of the Ogre Kingdoms army book. However, after much debate, we’ve decided that it does not give the Ogres an unfair advantage, so we’ve decided to leave the rule as it is written for the time being. That said, I’d personally recommend that you avoid giving your Butchers and Slaughtermasters magic armour – doing otherwise goes against the spirit, if not the letter, of the rule.
In other words, technically you can, but it's a bit of a  move.
In the end its most cost efficient to ignore armor and give your sm a 4++ and rely on that, his 5wounds, and the lore atribute of the maw
Or you give him the fencers blades and glittering scales. Or armour of destiny and an ironfist.
Both of those are standard builds and at far more reliable than a pure 4++ ward.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/08 22:01:25
Subject: Re:[2000] - Ogre Kingdoms - Organised Thuggery - The Ogre Scrum (Competitive?)
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Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant
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thedarkavenger wrote: namiel wrote: grendel083 wrote:Ogre Kingdoms FAQ wrote:Q: As Butchers and Slaughtermasters can take an ironfist, does this mean that they can also wear magical armour? (p32)
A: Yes.
Designers Note: I have to hold my hands up for not spotting that allowing a Butcher or Slaughtermaster to take an ironfist, would also allow them to take magic armour. Allowing them access to magic armour certainly wasn’t my intention, and it’s something we’ll certainly fix when we do the next edition of the Ogre Kingdoms army book. However, after much debate, we’ve decided that it does not give the Ogres an unfair advantage, so we’ve decided to leave the rule as it is written for the time being. That said, I’d personally recommend that you avoid giving your Butchers and Slaughtermasters magic armour – doing otherwise goes against the spirit, if not the letter, of the rule.
In other words, technically you can, but it's a bit of a  move.
In the end its most cost efficient to ignore armor and give your sm a 4++ and rely on that, his 5wounds, and the lore atribute of the maw
Or you give him the fencers blades and glittering scales. Or armour of destiny and an ironfist.
Both of those are standard builds and at far more reliable than a pure 4++ ward.
Also unnecessary. He's immune to poison and t5. Its hard to kill him in a single shot and if anyone can you made a big mistake. Armor of destiny and ironft gets you a 4+/4++ so what's the difference? The 6+ parry save? Fencers blades and glittering scales does great for close combat but nothing to help with cannons. Having played ogres since I've started whfb I have found a 4++ and crown of command will go much further then worrying about your sm being able to take a hit, because he can take a hit pretty damn well.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/08 22:35:31
Subject: Re:[2000] - Ogre Kingdoms - Organised Thuggery - The Ogre Scrum (Competitive?)
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Sinister Shapeshifter
The Lair of Vengeance....Poole.
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namiel wrote: thedarkavenger wrote: namiel wrote: grendel083 wrote:Ogre Kingdoms FAQ wrote:Q: As Butchers and Slaughtermasters can take an ironfist, does this mean that they can also wear magical armour? (p32)
A: Yes.
Designers Note: I have to hold my hands up for not spotting that allowing a Butcher or Slaughtermaster to take an ironfist, would also allow them to take magic armour. Allowing them access to magic armour certainly wasn’t my intention, and it’s something we’ll certainly fix when we do the next edition of the Ogre Kingdoms army book. However, after much debate, we’ve decided that it does not give the Ogres an unfair advantage, so we’ve decided to leave the rule as it is written for the time being. That said, I’d personally recommend that you avoid giving your Butchers and Slaughtermasters magic armour – doing otherwise goes against the spirit, if not the letter, of the rule.
In other words, technically you can, but it's a bit of a  move.
In the end its most cost efficient to ignore armor and give your sm a 4++ and rely on that, his 5wounds, and the lore atribute of the maw
Or you give him the fencers blades and glittering scales. Or armour of destiny and an ironfist.
Both of those are standard builds and at far more reliable than a pure 4++ ward.
Also unnecessary. He's immune to poison and t5. Its hard to kill him in a single shot and if anyone can you made a big mistake. Armor of destiny and ironft gets you a 4+/4++ so what's the difference? The 6+ parry save? Fencers blades and glittering scales does great for close combat but nothing to help with cannons. Having played ogres since I've started whfb I have found a 4++ and crown of command will go much further then worrying about your sm being able to take a hit, because he can take a hit pretty damn well.
The main threat to him isn't cannons. He's generally in the second rank with a 2+ Look out Sir. It's the combat phase that kills him. He's riding in Ironguts most likely. For the Standard of Discipline. And he then steps up to provide a tanky wall of T5 characters. At that point, he needs all the defense he can get. Most people go for the femcers blades and glittering scales as it, more often than not, completely neuters the need for the ward save.
As for the 4+ ward and the crown of command on him, that is a TERRIBLE idea. If you do lose him, then you've lost your level 4, General, and stubborn. Plus, your lore gives you stubborn. If you want the stubborn hat, take it on a bruiser or firebelly. A model that won't step up.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/09 01:30:46
Subject: Re:[2000] - Ogre Kingdoms - Organised Thuggery - The Ogre Scrum (Competitive?)
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Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant
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thedarkavenger wrote: namiel wrote: thedarkavenger wrote: namiel wrote: grendel083 wrote:Ogre Kingdoms FAQ wrote:Q: As Butchers and Slaughtermasters can take an ironfist, does this mean that they can also wear magical armour? (p32)
A: Yes.
Designers Note: I have to hold my hands up for not spotting that allowing a Butcher or Slaughtermaster to take an ironfist, would also allow them to take magic armour. Allowing them access to magic armour certainly wasn’t my intention, and it’s something we’ll certainly fix when we do the next edition of the Ogre Kingdoms army book. However, after much debate, we’ve decided that it does not give the Ogres an unfair advantage, so we’ve decided to leave the rule as it is written for the time being. That said, I’d personally recommend that you avoid giving your Butchers and Slaughtermasters magic armour – doing otherwise goes against the spirit, if not the letter, of the rule.
In other words, technically you can, but it's a bit of a  move.
In the end its most cost efficient to ignore armor and give your sm a 4++ and rely on that, his 5wounds, and the lore atribute of the maw
Or you give him the fencers blades and glittering scales. Or armour of destiny and an ironfist.
Both of those are standard builds and at far more reliable than a pure 4++ ward.
Also unnecessary. He's immune to poison and t5. Its hard to kill him in a single shot and if anyone can you made a big mistake. Armor of destiny and ironft gets you a 4+/4++ so what's the difference? The 6+ parry save? Fencers blades and glittering scales does great for close combat but nothing to help with cannons. Having played ogres since I've started whfb I have found a 4++ and crown of command will go much further then worrying about your sm being able to take a hit, because he can take a hit pretty damn well.
The main threat to him isn't cannons. He's generally in the second rank with a 2+ Look out Sir. It's the combat phase that kills him. He's riding in Ironguts most likely. For the Standard of Discipline. And he then steps up to provide a tanky wall of T5 characters. At that point, he needs all the defense he can get. Most people go for the femcers blades and glittering scales as it, more often than not, completely neuters the need for the ward save.
As for the 4+ ward and the crown of command on him, that is a TERRIBLE idea. If you do lose him, then you've lost your level 4, General, and stubborn. Plus, your lore gives you stubborn. If you want the stubborn hat, take it on a bruiser or firebelly. A model that won't step up.
It works well for me. I can in recent memory only remember one time where my sm has been killed and that was because cron murdered the entire gutstar with the help of a cauldron, 40 witches, and a hydra. Outside of that with my crown and 4++ I haven't been killed and have even been silly enough to accept challenges from chaos lords and demon princes. Its not easy to strip 5 wounds especially since I usually regain 1-3 wounds per magic phase. So terrible idea or not it works, for pick up games, store leagues, and at gt's. In the last 50 games(estimated) only cron has done him in.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/09 03:53:01
Subject: [2000] - Ogre Kingdoms - Organised Thuggery - The Ogre Scrum (Competitive?)
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Evasive Eshin Assassin
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@cawizkid: Fencer's Blades, Glittering Scales, and the Talisman is more than 100pts. You could get a 5+ Ward on him, if you wanted. Not a bad idea, if you're good on Arcane Items.
@namiel: I am a fan of 4+ Wards, since thery cover all your bases (WS10 and -1 to Hit only goes so far, right?). The Crown does seem redundant on a model that has a spell to make units Stubborn, though.
@thedarkavenger: okay, okay. You've once more unlocked The Single Best Way to do something in Warhammer. But if the Crown is a waste most of the time, it's only a 35pt waste. Not often a game-breaker.
Against, say, some Khornate Warriors, the Blades and Scales build takes 12 attacks, 4 hits, and 2 wounds? And the 4+/4+ takes...12 attacks, 6 hits, 3 wounds, 2.5 after armour, 1.25 after Ward?
Though, I'm sure you'll tell me that only an idiot would send Khornate Warriors up against a Slaughtermaster. Or field them at all. Or whatever.
There's more than one way to play the game. And while there are almost always better ways and worse ways, this isn't one of those times where there's the One Right way, and then an Incredibly Stupid way.
Now, to the OP:
A 4+ Ward on your BSB would be much appreciated. Or a 5+, at the very least.
I like Striking better than Biting, in terms of magic weapons. A Sword of Striking and the Talisman of Endurance comes in at 45pts. Of course, I enjoy a good ol' great weapon; S7 for next to free is hard to resist. But if he's goin' in with the Ironguts, I can see why you might want to strike at Initiative.
Putting both characters in one fairly small unit makes me nervous, though. If I can shoot and magic that one block off the table while I keep the rest of the list busy, it may well be game.
I'd prefer two blocks of 8, with a character in each. Maybe reduce the Leadbelcher units?
Oh. And since you can have up to 3 'tusks, I'd try to fit in 3.
But that's all pretty minor stuff, honestly.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/09 03:53:45
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/09 08:53:36
Subject: [2000] - Ogre Kingdoms - Organised Thuggery - The Ogre Scrum (Competitive?)
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Sinister Shapeshifter
The Lair of Vengeance....Poole.
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Warpsolution wrote:@cawizkid: Fencer's Blades, Glittering Scales, and the Talisman is more than 100pts. You could get a 5+ Ward on him, if you wanted. Not a bad idea, if you're good on Arcane Items.
@namiel: I am a fan of 4+ Wards, since thery cover all your bases (WS10 and -1 to Hit only goes so far, right?). The Crown does seem redundant on a model that has a spell to make units Stubborn, though.
@thedarkavenger: okay, okay. You've once more unlocked The Single Best Way to do something in Warhammer. But if the Crown is a waste most of the time, it's only a 35pt waste. Not often a game-breaker.
Against, say, some Khornate Warriors, the Blades and Scales build takes 12 attacks, 4 hits, and 2 wounds? And the 4+/4+ takes...12 attacks, 6 hits, 3 wounds, 2.5 after armour, 1.25 after Ward?
Though, I'm sure you'll tell me that only an idiot would send Khornate Warriors up against a Slaughtermaster. Or field them at all. Or whatever.
There's more than one way to play the game. And while there are almost always better ways and worse ways, this isn't one of those times where there's the One Right way, and then an Incredibly Stupid way.
Now, to the OP:
A 4+ Ward on your BSB would be much appreciated. Or a 5+, at the very least.
I like Striking better than Biting, in terms of magic weapons. A Sword of Striking and the Talisman of Endurance comes in at 45pts. Of course, I enjoy a good ol' great weapon; S7 for next to free is hard to resist. But if he's goin' in with the Ironguts, I can see why you might want to strike at Initiative.
Putting both characters in one fairly small unit makes me nervous, though. If I can shoot and magic that one block off the table while I keep the rest of the list busy, it may well be game.
I'd prefer two blocks of 8, with a character in each. Maybe reduce the Leadbelcher units?
Oh. And since you can have up to 3 'tusks, I'd try to fit in 3.
But that's all pretty minor stuff, honestly.
I never said those two builds are the best way. I just said that they're better than a naked 4+ ward and a stubborn hat.
The reasons are as follows:
1- The lore throws out stubborn willy-nilly.
2- They provide him more protection against his greater threat.
3- The best build for a BSB is enchanted shield and talisman of preservation for a 3+/4++
Sure, it can work. But the builds I suggested ALWAYS work.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/09 12:29:08
Subject: [2000] - Ogre Kingdoms - Organised Thuggery - The Ogre Scrum (Competitive?)
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Regular Dakkanaut
Thornton-Cleveleys, England
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Here are my thoughts
Slaughtermaster: Greedy Fist; Fencer's Blades; Glittering Scales; Level 4 Wizard 385
Very standard looking SM. My one concern would be the fact he has no decent ward save
Bruiser: Enchanted Shield; Biting Blade; Dragonbane Gem; heavy armour; Battle Standard 154
Again would like to see a Ward Save on him. I think the Biting Blade and Dragonbane Gem are a bit of a waste
7 Ironguts: Bellower; standard bearer (Standard of Discipline; Look-out Gnoblar) 341
6 Ogres: ironfists; Bellower; standard bearer 212
6 Ogres: ironfists; Bellower; standard bearer 212
For me I think the Ogres units are too small, I think with Characters then you should be looking at 9 min. As it stands any loss of one on the 6 man units is not only reducing your combat effectiveness in terms of attacks, the strength of your impact hits and your CR with the loss of a rank.
4 Leadbelchers 172
4 Leadbelchers 172
I also like Bellowers in them, for the ability to quick reform.
1 Sabretusk 21
1 Sabretusk 21
Essential for the deployment drops and acting as charge re-directors, etc.
2 Mournfang Cavalry: heavy armour; ironfists 140
Personally I don't feel a unit of two is worth it I would rather spend the points on something else.
Ironblaster 170
Boom! hur, hur, hur!
I've also built a 2500 point list, which is the points goal of the army:
Slaughtermaster: Greedy Fist; Fencer's Blades; Glittering Scales; Level 4 Wizard 385
Bruiser: Enchanted Shield; Dragonbane Gem; Sword of Striking; heavy armour; Battle Standard 159
7 Ironguts: Gutlord; Bellower; standard bearer (Standard of Discipline; Look-out Gnoblar) 351
6 Ogres: ironfists; Bellower; standard bearer 212
6 Ogres: ironfists; Bellower; standard bearer 212
6 Leadbelchers 258
6 Leadbelchers 258
1 Sabretusk 21
1 Sabretusk 21
2 Mournfang Cavalry: heavy armour; ironfists 140
2 Mournfang Cavalry: heavy armour; ironfists 140
Ironblaster 170
Ironblaster 170
2,497 points
Any pointers to a new Ogre player on those two lists?
The Ogres seem to be pretty much a cookie cutter army.
At 2500pts I would consider adding a Firebelly or a Butcher with the Lore of Beasts
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/09 22:50:07
Subject: [2000] - Ogre Kingdoms - Organised Thuggery - The Ogre Scrum (Competitive?)
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Boom! Leman Russ Commander
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BoTW wrote: cptjoeyg wrote:Don't think you can take magic armor on a wizard (Slaughtermaster)
And you are right pretty much a cookie cutter - minus some magic items.
Since a slaughtermaster can take an ironfist it's been FAQed that they can take magic armour as well.
@Puscifer: I like your lists. I like that you have MMU instead of the one gutstar. It's too easy to redirect it
Thank you.
Yeah, I really dislike the Gutstars. Too easy to bring down in one or two turns.
Just played a game through a friends online sim. Defo need Ward saves and possibly more Ogres.
More Magic might be good too. Automatically Appended Next Post: Updated 2k list
Slaughtermaster: Fencer's Blades; Glittering Scales; Talisman of Endurance; Level 4 Wizard. 375
Bruiser: Battle Standard; Enchanted Shield; Talisman of Preservation; heavy armour. 184
Butcher: Dispel Scroll; Lore of Beasts. 125
Butcher: Hellheart; Lore of Beasts. 150
7 Ironguts: Bellower; standard bearer (Standard of Discipline). 336
5 Ogres: Bellower; standard bearer; ironfists. 180
5 Ogres: Bellower; standard bearer; ironfists. 180
3 Leadbelchers 129
3 Leadbelchers 129
1 Sabretusk 21
1 Sabretusk 21
Ironblaster 170
2,000 points Automatically Appended Next Post: Updated 2.5k
Slaughtermaster: Fencer's Blades; Glittering Scales; Talisman of Endurance; Level 4 Wizard. 375
Bruiser: Battle Standard; Enchanted Shield; Talisman of Preservation; heavy armour. 184
Butcher: Dispel Scroll; Lore of Beasts. 125
Butcher: Hellheart; Lore of Beasts. 150
7 Ironguts: Bellower; standard bearer (Standard of Discipline). 336
8 Ogres: Bellower; standard bearer; ironfists. 276
8 Ogres: Bellower; standard bearer; ironfists. 276
4 Leadbelchers 172
4 Leadbelchers 172
1 Sabretusk 21
1 Sabretusk 21
3 Mournfang Cavalry: standard bearer; heavy armour; ironfists. 220
Ironblaster 170
2,498 points
Overall, I like the new lists better.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/09/10 00:28:12
Mr Mystery wrote:Suffice to say, if any of this is actually true, then clearly Elvis is hiding behind my left testicle, and Lord Lucan behind the right. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/10 07:50:47
Subject: Re:[2000] - Ogre Kingdoms - Organised Thuggery - The Ogre Scrum (Competitive?) UPDATED Sept 10.
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Regular Dakkanaut
Thornton-Cleveleys, England
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Personally I think you are running too many characters at 2000pts and not enough Ogres.
I think 3 is the limit at 2000pts and anymore than that you are taking away from your Ogre Units.
As your units are so small especially your normal Ogres without the Look-out Gnoblar upgrade one Ogre loss will lose you the LOS protection for your characters.
At 2500pts
I rather see the Mournfang with a Bellower than the Standard Bearer.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/10 13:11:54
Subject: [2000] - Ogre Kingdoms - Organised Thuggery - The Ogre Scrum (Competitive?)
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Evasive Eshin Assassin
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thedarkavenger wrote:I never said those two builds are the best way. I just said that they're better than a naked 4+ ward and a stubborn hat.
The reasons are as follows:
1- The lore throws out stubborn willy-nilly.
2- They provide him more protection against his greater threat.
3- The best build for a BSB is enchanted shield and talisman of preservation for a 3+/4++
Sure, it can work. But the builds I suggested ALWAYS work.
I fully understand the reasons why you suggested those builds, and I agree that they're better. But having nothing more than his T, W, and a 4+, while not ideal, is not what I'd call Caps Lock-16pt-terrible. That would be...Berserker Blade + Book of Ashur, or something. My first thought was Folding Fortress, but that goes beyond "terrible" by a wide margin. Unless you want to castle-up some Gnoblars, I guess.
I agree with a lot of the points made above:
- Bellowers on your Leadbelchers seems like a great idea.
Not as sure on the Mournfangs, though. They shouldn't be running, and with only 3 models, are you really going to need to reform?
- In a normal army (i.e., one where my characters and infantry are not Monstrous), I would generally say the character set-up is as follows: General, Lvl4 (who is often the General), BSB, back-up caster. Some armies can afford to go character-heavy, but Ogres don't seem to be one of them.
At the very least, drop one of those Butchers.
- Gutstars being taken out in 1-2 turns? From...what?!
But I agree. MS(M)U is a more versatile, tactical list. Still, when there are characters in question, I'd prefer to see 8+ regular models per unit. For units that don't carry characters, 6 is just fine.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/10 13:23:06
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/10 21:53:55
Subject: [2000] - Ogre Kingdoms - Organised Thuggery - The Ogre Scrum (Competitive?)
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Boom! Leman Russ Commander
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Wow... there seem to be as many opinions on Ogres as there are people on Dakka.
Warpsolution wrote: thedarkavenger wrote:I never said those two builds are the best way. I just said that they're better than a naked 4+ ward and a stubborn hat.
The reasons are as follows:
1- The lore throws out stubborn willy-nilly.
2- They provide him more protection against his greater threat.
3- The best build for a BSB is enchanted shield and talisman of preservation for a 3+/4++
Sure, it can work. But the builds I suggested ALWAYS work.
I fully understand the reasons why you suggested those builds, and I agree that they're better. But having nothing more than his T, W, and a 4+, while not ideal, is not what I'd call Caps Lock-16pt-terrible. That would be...Berserker Blade + Book of Ashur, or something. My first thought was Folding Fortress, but that goes beyond "terrible" by a wide margin. Unless you want to castle-up some Gnoblars, I guess.
I agree with a lot of the points made above:
- Bellowers on your Leadbelchers seems like a great idea.
Not as sure on the Mournfangs, though. They shouldn't be running, and with only 3 models, are you really going to need to reform?
- In a normal army (i.e., one where my characters and infantry are not Monstrous), I would generally say the character set-up is as follows: General, Lvl4 (who is often the General), BSB, back-up caster. Some armies can afford to go character-heavy, but Ogres don't seem to be one of them.
At the very least, drop one of those Butchers.
- Gutstars being taken out in 1-2 turns? From...what?!
But I agree. MS(M)U is a more versatile, tactical list. Still, when there are characters in question, I'd prefer to see 8+ regular models per unit. For units that don't carry characters, 6 is just fine.
We have a player who always, without fail, rolls Purple Sun. With a combo of Mass Cannon fire and Purple Sun, he manages to obliterate Gutstars really easily. Hence why I want to go with MSU as he can't kill all of them in a single turn and I only need two-three turns to get to the front of his lines.
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Mr Mystery wrote:Suffice to say, if any of this is actually true, then clearly Elvis is hiding behind my left testicle, and Lord Lucan behind the right. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/10 22:02:20
Subject: [2000] - Ogre Kingdoms - Organised Thuggery - The Ogre Scrum (Competitive?)
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Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant
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Puscifer wrote:Wow... there seem to be as many opinions on Ogres as there are people on Dakka.
Warpsolution wrote: thedarkavenger wrote:I never said those two builds are the best way. I just said that they're better than a naked 4+ ward and a stubborn hat.
The reasons are as follows:
1- The lore throws out stubborn willy-nilly.
2- They provide him more protection against his greater threat.
3- The best build for a BSB is enchanted shield and talisman of preservation for a 3+/4++
Sure, it can work. But the builds I suggested ALWAYS work.
I fully understand the reasons why you suggested those builds, and I agree that they're better. But having nothing more than his T, W, and a 4+, while not ideal, is not what I'd call Caps Lock-16pt-terrible. That would be...Berserker Blade + Book of Ashur, or something. My first thought was Folding Fortress, but that goes beyond "terrible" by a wide margin. Unless you want to castle-up some Gnoblars, I guess.
I agree with a lot of the points made above:
- Bellowers on your Leadbelchers seems like a great idea.
Not as sure on the Mournfangs, though. They shouldn't be running, and with only 3 models, are you really going to need to reform?
- In a normal army (i.e., one where my characters and infantry are not Monstrous), I would generally say the character set-up is as follows: General, Lvl4 (who is often the General), BSB, back-up caster. Some armies can afford to go character-heavy, but Ogres don't seem to be one of them.
At the very least, drop one of those Butchers.
- Gutstars being taken out in 1-2 turns? From...what?!
But I agree. MS(M)U is a more versatile, tactical list. Still, when there are characters in question, I'd prefer to see 8+ regular models per unit. For units that don't carry characters, 6 is just fine.
We have a player who always, without fail, rolls Purple Sun. With a combo of Mass Cannon fire and Purple Sun, he manages to obliterate Gutstars really easily. Hence why I want to go with MSU as he can't kill all of them in a single turn and I only need two-three turns to get to the front of his lines.
Dispel scroll, dispel scroll, dispel scroll. Never leave home without it
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RoperPG wrote:Blimey, it's very salty in here...
Any more vegans want to put forth their opinions on bacon? |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/10 23:00:12
Subject: [2000] - Ogre Kingdoms - Organised Thuggery - The Ogre Scrum (Competitive?) UPDATED Sept 10.
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Nimble Pistolier
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It helps that Ogres get (essentially) 2. Turn 1, scroll. Turn 2, hellheart, turn 3, profit???
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/10 23:24:00
Subject: [2000] - Ogre Kingdoms - Organised Thuggery - The Ogre Scrum (Competitive?) UPDATED Sept 10.
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Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant
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japehlio wrote:It helps that Ogres get (essentially) 2. Turn 1, scroll. Turn 2, hellheart, turn 3, profit???
turn 3 you should be in combat, if youre not the game is lost anyway. Ogres dont survive if they dont get into combat NOW.
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RoperPG wrote:Blimey, it's very salty in here...
Any more vegans want to put forth their opinions on bacon? |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/11 03:55:34
Subject: [2000] - Ogre Kingdoms - Organised Thuggery - The Ogre Scrum (Competitive?) UPDATED Sept 10.
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Evasive Eshin Assassin
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Even with Purple Sun, it isn't "easy" to completely take out 18 Ogres in 1-2 turns. He's got to successfully cast it, then it's got to roll high enough/not Misfire, then you, on average, fail 2/3 of your tests.
Still. Pretty lame that he always takes the Lore that contains the single best spell against Ogres. Maybe someone else should pick up Elves or Skaven or the like.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/11 04:37:29
Subject: [2000] - Ogre Kingdoms - Organised Thuggery - The Ogre Scrum (Competitive?) UPDATED Sept 10.
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Boom! Leman Russ Commander
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Warpsolution wrote:Even with Purple Sun, it isn't "easy" to completely take out 18 Ogres in 1-2 turns. He's got to successfully cast it, then it's got to roll high enough/not Misfire, then you, on average, fail 2/3 of your tests.
Still. Pretty lame that he always takes the Lore that contains the single best spell against Ogres. Maybe someone else should pick up Elves or Skaven or the like.
The only armies not represented well in these parts are Dark Elf and Ogre.
Dark Elves are seen as the easy way out to some and we only have one player.
Ogres are considered among the bottom tier here. I'm the only player, but I don't see them as bottom tier. They look to be a bit tough to play and building an army, while cookie cutter, is quite difficult to build for TAC.
Just my two cents.
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Mr Mystery wrote:Suffice to say, if any of this is actually true, then clearly Elvis is hiding behind my left testicle, and Lord Lucan behind the right. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/11 16:46:59
Subject: [2000] - Ogre Kingdoms - Organised Thuggery - The Ogre Scrum (Competitive?) UPDATED Sept 10.
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Evasive Eshin Assassin
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Even if 8th edition books weren't all so close in power, Ogres wouldn't be at the bottom.
If Purple Sun is the big issue, Mournfangs are the way to go, for even more speed.
Facing off against 2-3 such units is...difficult.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/12 21:02:25
Subject: [2000] - Ogre Kingdoms - Organised Thuggery - The Ogre Scrum (Competitive?) UPDATED Sept 10.
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Boom! Leman Russ Commander
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I'm starting to see why OK players take one large unit of Ogres. It's resilient and brings the pain like nothing else.
I've tweaked my list and tactics and created this:
Slaughtermaster: Fencer's Blades; Glittering Scales; Talisman of Endurance; Level 4 Wizard 375
Bruiser: Standard of Discipline; heavy armour; Battle Standard 149
Firebelly: Hellheart 170
15 Ogres: ironfists; Bellower; standard bearer (Look-out Gnoblar) 505
3 Leadbelchers 129
3 Leadbelchers 129
2 Mournfang Cavalry: heavy armour; ironfists 140
1 Sabretusk 21
1 Sabretusk 21
1 Sabretusk 21
Ironblaster 170
Ironblaster 170
2,000 points
Trying to build one with an Irongut horde, but this a lot more expensive for very little return. Automatically Appended Next Post: The Irongut list:
Slaughtermaster: Fencer's Blades; Glittering Scales; Talisman of Endurance; Level 4 Wizard 375
Bruiser: Enchanted Shield; Talisman of Preservation; heavy armour 159
Firebelly: Dispel Scroll 145
15 Ironguts: Bellower; standard bearer (Standard of Discipline) 680
3 Leadbelchers 129
3 Leadbelchers 129
1 Sabretusk 21
1 Sabretusk 21
Ironblaster 170
Ironblaster 170
1,999 points
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/12 21:08:31
Mr Mystery wrote:Suffice to say, if any of this is actually true, then clearly Elvis is hiding behind my left testicle, and Lord Lucan behind the right. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/12 21:41:39
Subject: [2000] - Ogre Kingdoms - Organised Thuggery - The Ogre Scrum (Competitive?) UPDATED Sept 10.
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Sinister Shapeshifter
The Lair of Vengeance....Poole.
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I like the second list. With a few tweaks.
Drop the guts to 8-11. And drop the leadbelchers. Them add as many morn fang as you can. Certain armies just can't deal with the pressure.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/12 21:48:15
Subject: [2000] - Ogre Kingdoms - Organised Thuggery - The Ogre Scrum (Competitive?) UPDATED Sept 10.
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Boom! Leman Russ Commander
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thedarkavenger wrote:I like the second list. With a few tweaks.
Drop the guts to 8-11. And drop the leadbelchers. Them add as many morn fang as you can. Certain armies just can't deal with the pressure.
I've already bought the Leadbelchers as they've worked well as chaff clearance before the charge by the Gutstar.
As for Mournfangs and other such lovelies:
Slaughtermaster: Fencer's Blades; Glittering Scales; Talisman of Endurance; Level 4 Wizard 375
Bruiser: Enchanted Shield; Talisman of Preservation; heavy armour 159
Firebelly: Dispel Scroll; Ironcurse Icon 150
15 Ironguts: Bellower; standard bearer (Standard of Discipline; Look-out Gnoblar) 685
3 Leadbelchers 129
3 Leadbelchers 129
1 Sabretusk 21
1 Sabretusk 21
1 Sabretusk 21
3 Mournfang Cavalry: heavy armour; ironfists; standard bearer 220
Ironblaster 170
Ironblaster 170
Stonehorn: harpoon launcher 250
2,500 points
That's my sweet spot. 2500 seems to be where my army is going to shine.
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Mr Mystery wrote:Suffice to say, if any of this is actually true, then clearly Elvis is hiding behind my left testicle, and Lord Lucan behind the right. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/16 19:40:46
Subject: [2000] - Ogre Kingdoms - (Competitive?) UPDATE Sept 12 (Post 25)
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Evasive Eshin Assassin
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I think 3 more Mournfang are going to serve you better than a Stonehorn in most cases.
Also, there's the option for magical banners. It's be a shame to waste it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/16 20:20:43
Subject: Re:[2000] - Ogre Kingdoms - (Competitive?) UPDATE Sept 12 (Post 25)
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Powerful Chaos Warrior
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Stone horn is fun and adds some variety, but if you want to go MOST competitive you should probably have more mournfang, My 2Cent;
- Mournfang could do with Dragonhide banner
- Leadbelchers could do with musicians
- Leadbelchers should go up to 2 units of 6
- Slaughtermaster would get more milage out of: Crown of Command, Armour of Destiny, Iron Fist and Channeling Staff, IMO
- The gut star can loose men IMO, 12 would get you 3 wide and 5 deep
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Alex 'Salior' Wheatley
- Warriors of Chaos / Savage Ogres
- Most VP - Eatbats 2014
- 2nd - Bunker Brawl 2014
- 3rd - Blood on the Sands 2013
'A proper Imperial Guard regiment should have enough men to build a starport from corpses, if need be.'
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/17 01:20:35
Subject: [2000] - Ogre Kingdoms - (Competitive?) UPDATE Sept 12 (Post 25)
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Evasive Eshin Assassin
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- a 3-wide unit of Ogres isn't much of an Anythingstar.
- as said above, the Crown of Command is pretty redundant on a character that can grant units Stubborn and will sit in a unit that usually wins combat anyway.
A brief comparison of (a) the WS10, -1 to Hit, 5+ Ward build versus (b) a 4+/4+:
against 100 WS4 S4 attacks (a) takes 3.7 wounds and (b) takes 5.5
against 100 WS5 S5 attacks (a) takes 11.1 wounds and (b) takes 10.4
against 100 WS6 S6 attacks, (a) takes 14.8 wounds and (b) takes 22.3 wounds
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/17 04:43:38
Subject: [2000] - Ogre Kingdoms - (Competitive?) UPDATE Sept 12 (Post 25)
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Sinister Shapeshifter
The Lair of Vengeance....Poole.
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Warpsolution wrote:- a 3-wide unit of Ogres isn't much of an Anythingstar.
- as said above, the Crown of Command is pretty redundant on a character that can grant units Stubborn and will sit in a unit that usually wins combat anyway.
A brief comparison of (a) the WS10, -1 to Hit, 5+ Ward build versus (b) a 4+/4+:
against 100 WS4 S4 attacks (a) takes 3.7 wounds and (b) takes 5.5
against 100 WS5 S5 attacks (a) takes 11.1 wounds and (b) takes 10.4
against 100 WS6 S6 attacks, (a) takes 14.8 wounds and (b) takes 22.3 wounds
To be fair, the gutstar has pretty much been 3 wide for as long as I can remember. Characters hide in the second rank till combat, and then the 3+/4++ BSB and Firebelly step up. That means that the opponent gains bugger all in the way of Combat Res, whilst the guts just beat seven shades of hell out of their opponents.
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