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So just curious... Be'Lakor... he is sexy, he is awesome, he is powerful.....he is 350 points...

Is he worth it? I would love to add him to a competitive list, but I'm not sure if it is worth 350 points. He has some neat abilities, but for 350 points.... I want to put him in a list, but can I justify it?

you still have to make a balanced list.. but yes. he is worth it.

Do you rush him into CC or use him as a support character?

I suppose he could cast invisibilty on himself, use jink as well. Get into CC as quickly as possible and maul everthing in his path. Should i run him with another DP?

I prefer him either hopping or flying around making some other unit with high damage output invisible. Then once that's connected, he can land and do damage.

He is super fragile, but can kill anything. The trick is keeping him protected at all times.

super fragile?

T5, lots of wounds, shrouded, invis, flyer, eternal warrior, jink.. Seems pretty fragile to me too o.O

I agree.... he isnt that fragile. If you are shooting at him, you would need 6s to hit (invis) and then he would get a 2+ cover save (jink).

He is, in my opinion one of the best single model units in the game. He is a serious beat stick, generally I start on the ground and take to the air turn one. Cast invisibility on houds/screamers, get where I need to be, land, and kill stuff. He can kill everything, wounding everything on a 2 and armorbane is very, very strong. I have only had be'lakor die once in a game, and it was after carelessly letting him get assaulted by some insane amount of pt in death company.

Small arms fire and lots of forced saves is the way to kill him, so keep him away from rapid fire lines and you will be more than good. He is an awesome caster and n awesome bruiser. I feel bad bringing him in under 1850.

If given the option, would you use him to focus down vehicles or the fleshy types?

AutarchRion wrote:
If given the option, would you use him to focus down vehicles or the fleshy types?

That depends entirely on the state of the game.

Bring him, fate weaver with grimoire, an warp talons with mark of tzeentch.

2++ with invisibility is scary...

I just meant in general. It seems that he would be better at taking out vehicles with his armourbane (over a normal DP). If I was running two other DPs...I could have them focus on normal flesh and bone, while Be'Lakor focuses down some vehicles.

I also think you could use him to cast Invis on a a vehicle squadron, like a formation of helbrutes (5 'brute squad...i forget the name)... damn that would be tough. 6s to hit and I could have 5 of them all together, with the option to look out sir for each other.

I just wonder of Be'Lakor + 2 DP's would be sinking too many points into Daemon Princes. Have any of you had success running a flying circus with Be'Lakor in competitive play?

I have a list I'm going to run in my next game with be'lakor, 2 daemon princes (with daemon weapons for the ability to knock out large numbers of models) and 3 maulerfiends. I haven't gotten to test it yet, but it sounds phenomenal to me on paper. Just going to cast shrouded and keep him in the middle of it all for the first turn or two and then let everything disperse and wipe out units. He will definitely be worth it in my list for the protection he offers everyone.

 lessthanjeff wrote:
I have a list I'm going to run in my next game with be'lakor, 2 daemon princes (with daemon weapons for the ability to knock out large numbers of models) and 3 maulerfiends. I haven't gotten to test it yet, but it sounds phenomenal to me on paper. Just going to cast shrouded and keep him in the middle of it all for the first turn or two and then let everything disperse and wipe out units. He will definitely be worth it in my list for the protection he offers everyone.

What else are you adding to the list? You need to have some meat on the field? just a bunch of cultists?

Wave serpents eat him alive due to str 7 and ignores cover. Even if invisible, the'll bring the hurt on you.

Kholzerino wrote:
Wave serpents eat him alive due to str 7 and ignores cover. Even if invisible, the'll bring the hurt on you.

I was thinking that..... damn 72" range and such. If I could just get him into contact with a Wave Serpent.... haha.

AutarchRion wrote:

 lessthanjeff wrote:
I have a list I'm going to run in my next game with be'lakor, 2 daemon princes (with daemon weapons for the ability to knock out large numbers of models) and 3 maulerfiends. I haven't gotten to test it yet, but it sounds phenomenal to me on paper. Just going to cast shrouded and keep him in the middle of it all for the first turn or two and then let everything disperse and wipe out units. He will definitely be worth it in my list for the protection he offers everyone.

What else are you adding to the list? You need to have some meat on the field? just a bunch of cultists?

I've made a few varieties of the list. Some of them run marine squads in rhinos, hellbrutes, and bikers which also enjoy the shrouding effects. Another pulls in an additional lord of change by allying daemons instead. Another just uses the 3 but pumps up their psychic abilities more and brings thousand sons to add warp charges. I'm going to go through a series of games trying different variants on it but the core will always be the trio of daemon princes and maulerfiends which comes to about 1200 points (with the wings and daemon weapons and everything) and leaves me the other 650ish to play with.

With the updated Culexus assassins, I'd say Be'Lakor can be a little more risky to bring into games. Just takes one of them getting a toe within 12" and there goes invisibility and shrouded.

He's still great, but there's always the threat of a little skull guy popping out and making your 350pt wet his immortal pants.

Fly him around, use him as a support character until he's close enough to murder things. Wave Serpents are still trying to hit you if you're flying. Invisibility anything, including yourself if you need to to stay alive and a viable threat.

Be'Lakor is arguably the most dangerous IC in the game in the hands of a knowledgeable general.

Flying and invisible is tricky, but three wave serpents should do it. Two if you are neither. 350pts going bye bye. Also, Tau can counter hard with Skyrays. If you are flying AND invisible you are throwing four dice and generating three. Just to not get shot. If WS and Sky Rays (and night scythes) were less common, he'd be a god. As it is he is scissors to a lot of paper, but....

Oh, and he can't help much with an alpha strike or anything either. Broadsides can be deployed outside of his range. (Broadsides kill him pretty good too).

What are his chances of getting in close to some WS's and popping them? I'd think he could do that pretty easily.

Not great. If he's flying, he can't assault till turn three earliest. If he's not he's only the same speed as a wave serpent. You need at least two super fast units to bully wave serpents and they will take down one of them. Probably The Dark Master if they have the chance.

I think he's good if you are running him in CSM with a wall of wraiths, maybe? (Prob not even then that much)

For 350 points he is fragile, even with a 2+ cover save (Same durability as 2 centurions vs small arms fire).

He can certainly be worth it, though he takes some time to get used to. Wave serpents and SMS can be a pain for him.

Something of note is that he is one of only a few options that daemons have for dealing with imperial knights.

 Big Blind Bill wrote:
For 350 points he is fragile, even with a 2+ cover save (Same durability as 2 centurions vs small arms fire).

He can certainly be worth it, though he takes some time to get used to. Wave serpents and SMS can be a pain for him.

Something of note is that he is one of only a few options that daemons have for dealing with imperial knights.

I still wouldn't say the durability is the same there because Be'Lakor doesn't lose his 2+ cover to all of the plasma guns, melta guns, and laser cannons of the world. Also, he has eternal warrior so there's no fear of instant death when fighting walkers or force wielders.

Edit: Clearly it's too early for me to be awake and posting since I glossed right past the small arms fire part...

 Big Blind Bill wrote:
For 350 points he is fragile, even with a 2+ cover save (Same durability as 2 centurions vs small arms fire).

He can certainly be worth it, though he takes some time to get used to. Wave serpents and SMS can be a pain for him.

Something of note is that he is one of only a few options that daemons have for dealing with imperial knights.

You think he is viable against imperial knights? I'm not sure it is worth it. Their stomp attack can remove him from play on a roll of a 6. I am pretty sure that Eternal Warrior can't even save him from an Imperial Knight Stomp Attack.

AutarchRion wrote:

 Big Blind Bill wrote:
For 350 points he is fragile, even with a 2+ cover save (Same durability as 2 centurions vs small arms fire).

He can certainly be worth it, though he takes some time to get used to. Wave serpents and SMS can be a pain for him.

Something of note is that he is one of only a few options that daemons have for dealing with imperial knights.

You think he is viable against imperial knights? I'm not sure it is worth it. Their stomp attack can remove him from play on a roll of a 6. I am pretty sure that Eternal Warrior can't even save him from an Imperial Knight Stomp Attack.

I'm pretty sure Be'lakor is supposed to destroy the Knight before that happens. You know, 6x WS 9 Init 8 S7 AP2 Armourbane attacks should put a dent in one.

Does anyone have the link to the battle report where Be'Lakor killed 2 Revenant Titans, by himself...

I use him extensively. He can cast invisibility and shrouding, making 1 unit hard to hit and give a unit of screamers a 2+ rerollable cover save with jink.

He also murders Imperial Knights in CC.

 gardeth wrote:
I use him extensively. He can cast invisibility and shrouding, making 1 unit hard to hit and give a unit of screamers a 2+ rerollable cover save with jink.

He also murders Imperial Knights in CC.

Do you have problems with those Imperial Knights stomping your ass to death? If I understand it correctly, on a roll of a 6, any units under the stomp template are removed from play. Be'Lakor's eternal warrior does not protect from that.

AutarchRion wrote:

 Big Blind Bill wrote:
For 350 points he is fragile, even with a 2+ cover save (Same durability as 2 centurions vs small arms fire).

He can certainly be worth it, though he takes some time to get used to. Wave serpents and SMS can be a pain for him.

Something of note is that he is one of only a few options that daemons have for dealing with imperial knights.

You think he is viable against imperial knights? I'm not sure it is worth it. Their stomp attack can remove him from play on a roll of a 6. I am pretty sure that Eternal Warrior can't even save him from an Imperial Knight Stomp Attack.

The knight can remove any squad in the game on the roll of a 6, so any counter to the knight in cc runs a risk. With that said, Be'lakor has the attacks, armourbane and invisibility to heavily weight the fight in his favour.

The real problem for daemons is that they are very limited on counters to knights. Their only slightly competitive options are screamers, soulgrinders, plaguebearers and a 1 in 6 chance of getting armourbane on a greater daemon/dp (however these are often as expensive as Be'lakor and not as good). Of these, Be'lakor has by far the best damage output, and chance of winning. Guaranteed invis and area shrouding skills are also very good at countering knights, so if your meta is full of them, then Be'lakor would be a wise investment.

Does anyone have the link to the battle report where Be'Lakor killed 2 Revenant Titans, by himself...

I think I know the game you are talking about, though I believe that report is before 7th ed isn't it? I believe he used puppet master (which is no longer in the game) to make one of the revenants do most of the work for him. He wouldn't be able to do the same thing now, especially as he has to land in front of the revenant for a turn before he charges. Flying and charging the next turn in 6th ed. allowed him to avoid those lethal str D blasts.

I've used him, and, as stated, Be'lakor can certainly pop a knight, if he can fight it without going through terrain.