Grey Templar wrote:
Far less advanced now than then.

The Emperor didn't view technology that way, but he knew the dangers of unfettered technological advancement. Its even postulated that he purposely created the Ad Mech ahead of time as means of preserving technology from what he knew was going to be a hard crash and technological regression.

Technological advancement of humanity could be viewed as a graph reaching a massive dizzying height, then plunging down again. Then the Reunification happens and tech level rises steadily, then the Heresy and the following thousand years see a small drop, followed by a relatively flat curve that is increasing by an imperceptible amount over time. Because for every 10 steps forward they take 9.9 steps back.


Mankind far surpassed even the Eldar in terms of technology not involving psychic powers, and they weren't bad at that either.

Only the Necrons have better tech than mankind during the DAoT. The Tau don't even compare at all.

 Psienesis wrote:
It would, yes.

However, they have yet to find an intact STC. There may be none surviving into the modern era.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
It would, yes.

However, they have yet to find an intact STC. There may be none surviving into the modern era.

Even an STC with 20% of its original data intact would be a huge boon.

 Ribon Fox wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
It would, yes.

However, they have yet to find an intact STC. There may be none surviving into the modern era.

Even an STC with 20% of its original data intact would be a huge boon.

Unless that 20% was Hello Kitty stuff

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

 Ribon Fox wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
It would, yes.

However, they have yet to find an intact STC. There may be none surviving into the modern era.

Even an STC with 20% of its original data intact would be a huge boon.

Unless that 20% was Hello Kitty stuff

I'd like to point out the grey knights found the STC for a titan, in working and impeccable order, and subsequently blew it up. Sure it was aligned with chaos and had daemon mega blasters, but is that really an excuse?

 Grey Templar wrote:


Mankind far surpassed even the Eldar in terms of technology not involving psychic powers, and they weren't bad at that either.

 Exergy wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:


Mankind far surpassed even the Eldar in terms of technology not involving psychic powers, and they weren't bad at that either.

never seen anything to that effect

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:


Mankind far surpassed even the Eldar in terms of technology not involving psychic powers, and they weren't bad at that either.

never seen anything to that effect

Yeah, I've always seen it as out of 1-10, the imperium got up to an 8 or 9 before falling, the eldar took it up to 11 before the fall, and the necrons have sat steadily at 15.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:


Mankind far surpassed even the Eldar in terms of technology not involving psychic powers, and they weren't bad at that either.

never seen anything to that effect

Yeah, I've always seen it as out of 1-10, the imperium got up to an 8 or 9 before falling, the eldar took it up to 11 before the fall, and the necrons have sat steadily at 15.

I don't recall the eldar having guns mounted on ships that fired black holes so fast they traveled back in time. DAOT humanity was absolutely absurd in the tech range. There was also the sentient ship in Death of Integrity which instantly hacked (hollywood style) and froze terminator armor and turned a servitor into a puppet.

 Exergy wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:


Mankind far surpassed even the Eldar in terms of technology not involving psychic powers, and they weren't bad at that either.

never seen anything to that effect

Yeah, I've always seen it as out of 1-10, the imperium got up to an 8 or 9 before falling, the eldar took it up to 11 before the fall, and the necrons have sat steadily at 15.

I don't recall the eldar having guns mounted on ships that fired black holes so fast they traveled back in time. DAOT humanity was absolutely absurd in the tech range. There was also the sentient ship in Death of Integrity which instantly hacked (hollywood style) and froze terminator armor and turned a servitor into a puppet.

The Eldar had a lot of crazy weird stuff, but most of the literature is about humanity. It sells better. Much of what the Eldar had was consumed in the warp or was so nasty it drew too much energy and was reprocessed into more manageble weapons.

Still during the dark age of technology, Humanity spread to all corners of the galaxy, EXCEPT Eldar space. Even with the men of iron and their black hole guns, humans never attempted to challenge the Eldar as they knew they would lose.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:


Mankind far surpassed even the Eldar in terms of technology not involving psychic powers, and they weren't bad at that either.

never seen anything to that effect

Yeah, I've always seen it as out of 1-10, the imperium got up to an 8 or 9 before falling, the eldar took it up to 11 before the fall, and the necrons have sat steadily at 15.

I don't recall the eldar having guns mounted on ships that fired black holes so fast they traveled back in time. DAOT humanity was absolutely absurd in the tech range. There was also the sentient ship in Death of Integrity which instantly hacked (hollywood style) and froze terminator armor and turned a servitor into a puppet.

The Eldar had a lot of crazy weird stuff, but most of the literature is about humanity. It sells better. Much of what the Eldar had was consumed in the warp or was so nasty it drew too much energy and was reprocessed into more manageble weapons.

Still during the dark age of technology, Humanity spread to all corners of the galaxy, EXCEPT Eldar space. Even with the men of iron and their black hole guns, humans never attempted to challenge the Eldar as they knew they would lose.

Not because they would lose, the Eldar Empire didn't even really seem to have an actual military seeing how the Dark Eldar are the real cotninuation of it. The only advantage the Dark Eldar held was they built a machine that allowed them to build anything they wanted, so long as they could think of it. It's how the Dark City was built, they just wished it into existence. The only problem is that it was built directly before the Fall, to the point it may have been as little as a century later that the Empire got wiped out.

 Wyzilla wrote:


Not because they would lose, the Eldar Empire didn't even really seem to have an actual military seeing how the Dark Eldar are the real cotninuation of it. The only advantage the Dark Eldar held was they built a machine that allowed them to build anything they wanted, so long as they could think of it. It's how the Dark City was built, they just wished it into existence. The only problem is that it was built directly before the Fall, to the point it may have been as little as a century later that the Empire got wiped out.

 Exergy wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:


Not because they would lose, the Eldar Empire didn't even really seem to have an actual military seeing how the Dark Eldar are the real cotninuation of it. The only advantage the Dark Eldar held was they built a machine that allowed them to build anything they wanted, so long as they could think of it. It's how the Dark City was built, they just wished it into existence. The only problem is that it was built directly before the Fall, to the point it may have been as little as a century later that the Empire got wiped out.

The Eldar Empire was defended by a legion of machines, much like the men of iron I suppose except that they were more powerful and did not rebel.
That they were so perfect led the eldar to not need to do anything to ensure their survival, which led to the decadent ways that gave birth to slanesh.

Bharring wrote:
That's like saying roaches are as advanced as mankind, if you ignore everything based on the laws of the Materium. Kind pointless.

Also, I'm fairly sure its inaccurate, but can't cite.

But Eldar war machines aren't the only reason DaoT man couldn't challenge Eldar. There was also Kaela Mensha fething Khaine. Not the relatively-laughable avatar that is but a sliver of his might, and still wrecks armies. The god himself.

And the rest of the pantheon. And no need for any of them to hold back their power down to Farseer levels. And their tech.

So the fact that DaoT man couldn't challenge them doesn't prove Eldar tech was superior.

I do think the 9 vs 11 vs 15 is the right scale.

DaoT tech might have shot black holes, but post-fall Eldar still have, without a manufacturing base, small arms that *literally* tear the Materium itself. They don't field them often, but that's because of what it does to the Materium (Iyanden does, but they're dicks). A much more advanced weapon than shooting black holes. And available in small arms form. Ten thousand years after a much more brutal and effective social collapse.

"Looping targeting arrays for weapons he had never imagined the Speranza possessing and others that he did not understand flashed up before the astrogation and engineering hubs. Azuramagelli and Saiixek backed away from their stations, confused and not a little frightened by this unknown power rising up around them. Stark against the red of the main display, the image of an alien starship resolved itself. It was smooth and graceful, its hull like a tapered gemstone and topped with a vast sail that billowed in the gravitational tempests. Its image flickered and danced as though attempting to conceal itself like a teasing courtesan, but whatever matrices were at work in the heart of the Speranza saw through its glamours with ease.
...
The flanks of the Speranza shuddered as a weapon system built into its superstructure ground upwards on heavy duty rails. A vast gun tube rose from the angled planes of the Ark Mechanicus like the great menhir of some tribal place of worship being lifted into place. Power readouts, the likes of which had rarely been seen in the Imperium since before the wars of Unity, bloomed within the weapon and a pair of circling tori described twisting arcs around the tapered end of the unveiled barrel. Elements of the technology that had gone into their construction would have been familiar to some of the more esoteric branches of black hole research and relativistic temporal arcana, but their assembled complexity would have baffled even the Fabricator General on Mars. Pulsing streams of purple-hued anti-matter and graviton pumps combined in unknowable ways in the heart of a reactor that drew its power from the dark matter that lurked in the spaces between the stars. It was a gun designed to crack open the stately leviathans of ancient void war, a starship killer that delivered the ultimate coup de grace. Without any command authority from the bridge of the Speranza, the weapon unleashed a silent pulse that covered the distance to the Starblade at the speed of light. But even that wasn’t fast enough to catch a ship as nimble as one built by the bonesingers of Biel-Tan and guided by the prescient sight of a farseer. The pulse of dark energy coalesced a hundred kilometres off the vessel’s stern and a miniature black hole exploded into life, dragging in everything within its reach with howling force. Stellar matter, light and gravity were crushed as they were drawn in and destroyed, and even the Starblade’s speed and manoeuvrability weren’t enough to save it completely as the secondary effect of the weapon’s deadly energies brushed over its solar sail. Chrono-weaponry shifted its target a nanosecond into the past, by which time the subatomic reactions within every molecule had shifted microscopically and forced identical neutrons into the same quantum space. Such a state of being was untenable on a fundamental level, and the resultant release of energy was catastrophic for the vast majority of objects hit by such a weapon. Though on the periphery of the streaming waves of chronometric energy, the Starblade’s solar mast detonated as though its internal structure had been threaded with explosive charges. The sail tore free of the ship, ghost images of its previous existence flickering as the psycho-conductive wraithbone screamed in its death throes. Blue flame geysered from the topside of the eldar vessel and the craft lurched away from the force of the blast. Its previously distorted and fragmentary outline became solid, and the circling captains of the Kotov Fleet wasted no time in loosing salvo after salvo of torpedoes at the newly revealed warship."
Priests of Mars, PGA. 255-256

Ferros wrote:
Not sure if you read the after-effect. It wasn't just a black hole, it also shifted space back in time, creating an overlap of particles.
Not sure what that would do in real-life, but thus far, the only chrono-weaponry we've seen so far have been the Necrons. No mention of the Eldar possessing something similar.