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The Void

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
Emperor worship did, but the code of Bushido as instructed by the WW2 military was a new invention, a perversion of the original honor code. That code is gone, but much of Japan, including the divinity of the Emperor remains intact.



Even then, the "death before dishonor" and you must commit Seppuku (or whatever other names they've given it) are often seen as the "original" honor code, which only sprang up post unification, and some scholars suggest is as new as the 1800s and is a response to Japan's Westernization efforts of that period


Depends on the extent. There's plenty of historical sources regarding seppuku and it's uses from far earlier then the 1800s. I'd say the early Sengoku Jidai (mid 15th century) is likely the era that much of what we think of as modern Bushido and Samurai practice came into being. It was certainly deeply ingrained by the time that Yamamoto Tsunetomo wrote the Hagakure in the 18th century. This is of course also the time frame that the famous Forty Seven Ronin took their revenge.

Some of the confusion is probably because the term bushidō is a modern one, only coming into being during the Tokugawa Shogunate at the absolutely earliest. Prior to this point, no special term was needed as it was simply the culture of the age. Even if it wasn't formally codified until shortly before or after the Tokugawa Shogunate came to power, we're still talking three centuries or so before the Militarists in the Imperial Army and Navy corrupted their own version with which to "arm" Imperial Japanese Soldiers and Sailors.

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Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long


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 KalashnikovMarine wrote:

Depends on the extent. There's plenty of historical sources regarding seppuku and it's uses from far earlier then the 1800s. I'd say the early Sengoku Jidai (mid 15th century) is likely the era that much of what we think of as modern Bushido and Samurai practice came into being. It was certainly deeply ingrained by the time that Yamamoto Tsunetomo wrote the Hagakure in the 18th century. This is of course also the time frame that the famous Forty Seven Ronin took their revenge.

Some of the confusion is probably because the term bushidō is a modern one, only coming into being during the Tokugawa Shogunate at the absolutely earliest. Prior to this point, no special term was needed as it was simply the culture of the age. Even if it wasn't formally codified until shortly before or after the Tokugawa Shogunate came to power, we're still talking three centuries or so before the Militarists in the Imperial Army and Navy corrupted their own version with which to "arm" Imperial Japanese Soldiers and Sailors.


A few samurai committed seppuku prior to the 18th century, but they were generally the exception, rather than the rule. The whole "kill yourself rather than face defeat" may have existed as an idea, but was ignored by and large until the 18th-20th centuries. Hideyoshi Toyotomi built the army he conquered Japan with out of guys he defeated in combat. People who lost to him usually ended up with jobs working for him, except for the Hojo (but that was because Hideyoshi had to buy off Tokugawa and he needed to use the Hojo lands to do it with). Yeah, Nobunaga had a habit of killing anyone who crossed him, but he isn't regarded favorably in Japan (in pop culture, he usually is depicted as a villain). A few samurai in the era did kill themselves rather than face capture (Nobunaga's sister's second husband did this when Hideyoshi was knocking at his castle gates) but they stand out because of how uncommon the practice was.

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MN (Currently in WY)

So, did I miss when ISIS started espousing Bushido or did this thread derail?

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Fort Campbell

 Easy E wrote:
So, did I miss when ISIS started espousing Bushido or did this thread derail?


Ehh, it more moderately changed tracks.

Full Frontal Nerdity 
   
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Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

Does the West care anymore?

I mean... this is the real War on Women™.

ISIS released a sex guide to the capture, punishment, and rape of sex slaves.

Someone, please tell me this is a joke... please.

Spoiler:
"Question 1: What is al-sabi?
"Al-Sabi is a woman from among ahl al-harb [the people of war] who has been captured by Muslims.

"Question 2: What makes al-sabi permissible?
"What makes al-sabi permissible [i.e., what makes it permissible to take such a woman captive] is [her] unbelief. Unbelieving [women] who were captured and brought into the abode of Islam are permissible to us, after the imam distributes them [among us]."

"Question 3: Can all unbelieving women be taken captive?
"There is no dispute among the scholars that it is permissible to capture unbelieving women [who are characterized by] original unbelief [kufr asli], such as the kitabiyat [women from among the People of the Book, i.e. Jews and Christians] and polytheists. However, [the scholars] are disputed over [the issue of] capturing apostate women. The consensus leans towards forbidding it, though some people of knowledge think it permissible. We [ISIS] lean towards accepting the consensus…"

"Question 4: Is it permissible to have intercourse with a female captive?
"It is permissible to have sexual intercourse with the female captive. Allah the almighty said: '[Successful are the believers] who guard their chastity, except from their wives or (the captives and slaves) that their right hands possess, for then they are free from blame [Koran 23:5-6]'..."

"Question 5: Is it permissible to have intercourse with a female captive immediately after taking possession [of her]?
"If she is a virgin, he [her master] can have intercourse with her immediately after taking possession of her. However, is she isn't, her uterus must be purified [first]…"

"Question 6: Is it permissible to sell a female captive?
"It is permissible to buy, sell, or give as a gift female captives and slaves, for they are merely property, which can be disposed of [as long as that doesn't cause [the Muslim ummah] any harm or damage."

"Question 7: Is it permissible to separate a mother from her children through [the act of] buying and selling?
"It is not permissible to separate a mother from her prepubescent children through buying, selling or giving away [a captive or slave]. [But] it is permissible to separate them if the children are grown and mature."

"Question 8: If two or more [men] buy a female captive together, does she then become [sexually] permissible to each of them?
"It is forbidden to have intercourse with a female captive if [the master] does not own her exclusively. One who owns [a captive] in partnership [with others] may not have sexual intercourse with her until the other [owners] sell or give him [their share]."

"Question 9: If the female captive was impregnated by her owner, can he then sell her?
"He can't sell her if she becomes the mother of a child..."

"Question 10: If a man dies, what is the law regarding the female captive he owned?
"Female captives are distributed as part of his estate, just as all [other parts] of his estate [are distributed]. However, they may only provide services, not intercourse, if a father or [one of the] sons has already had intercourse with them, or if several [people] inherit them in partnership."

"Question 11: May a man have intercourse with the female slave of his wife?
"A man may not have intercourse with the female slave of his wife, because [the slave] is owned by someone else."

"Question 12: May a man kiss the female slave of another, with the owner's permission?
"A man may not kiss the female slave of another, for kissing [involves] pleasure, and pleasure is prohibited unless [the man] owns [the slave] exclusively."

"Question 13: Is it permissible to have intercourse with a female slave who has not reached puberty?
"It is permissible to have intercourse with the female slave who hasn't reached puberty if she is fit for intercourse; however if she is not fit for intercourse, then it is enough to enjoy her without intercourse."

"Question 14: What private parts of the female slave's body must be concealed during prayer?
"Her private body parts [that must be concealed] during prayer are the same as those [that must be concealed] outside [prayer], and they [include] everything besides the head, neck, hands and feet."

"Question 15: May a female slave meet foreign men without wearing a hijab?
"A female slave is allowed to expose her head, neck, hands, and feet in front of foreign men if fitna [enticement] can be avoided. However, if fitna is present, or of there is fear that it will occur, then it [i.e. exposing these body parts becomes] forbidden."

"Question 16: Can two sisters be taken together while taking slaves?
"It is permissible to have two sisters, a female slave and her aunt [her father's sister], or a female slave and her aunt [from her mother's side]. But they cannot be together during intercourse, [and] whoever has intercourse with one of them cannot have intercourse with the other, due to the general [consensus] over the prohibition of this."

"Question 17: What is al-'azl?
"Al-'azl is refraining from ejaculating on a woman's pudendum [i.e. coitus interruptus]."

"Question 18: May a man use the al-'azl [technique] with his female slave?
"A man is allowed [to use] al-'azl during intercourse with his female slave with or without her consent."

"Question 19: Is it permissible to beat a female slave?
"It is permissible to beat the female slave as a [form of] darb ta'deeb [disciplinary beating], [but] it is forbidden to [use] darb al-takseer [literally, breaking beating], [darb] al-tashaffi [beating for the purpose of achieving gratification], or [darb] al-ta'dheeb [torture beating]. Further, it is forbidden to hit the face."

Question 20: What is the ruling regarding a female slave who runs away from her master?
"A male or female slave's running away [from their master] is among the gravest of sins…"

"Question 21: What is the earthly punishment of a female slave who runs away from her master?
"She [i.e. the female slave who runs away from her master] has no punishment according to the shari'a of Allah; however, she is [to be] reprimanded [in such a way that] deters others like her from escaping."

"Question 22: Is it permissible to marry a Muslim [slave] or a kitabiyya [i.e. Jewish or Christian] female slave?
"It is impermissible for a free [man] to marry Muslim or kitabiyat female slaves, except for those [men] who feared to [commit] a sin, that is, the sin of fornication…"

"Question 24: If a man marries a female slave who is owned by someone else, who is allowed to have intercourse with her?
"A master is prohibited from having intercourse with his female slave who is married to someone else; instead, the master receives her service, [while] the husband [gets to] enjoy her [sexually]."

"Question 25: Are the huddoud [Koranic punishments] applied to female slaves?
"If a female slave committed what necessitated the enforcement of a hadd [on her], a hadd [is then] enforced on her – however, the hadd is reduced by half within the hudud that accepts reduction by half…"

"Question 27: What is the reward for freeing a slave girl?
"Allah the exalted said [in the Koran]: 'And what can make you know what is [breaking through] the difficult pass [hell]? It is the freeing of a slave.' And [the prophet Muhammad] said: 'Whoever frees a believer Allah frees every organ of his body from hellfire.'"

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Fort Campbell

It's not. These people are true evil. It's why I have zero issue going back over there to fight them. It's not an issue of state sovereignity, having Iraq safe, or anything like that. It's an issue of true evil that needs to be stopped.

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 Medium of Death wrote:

Enola Two: Nuclear Boogaloo?


Well, they do seem to want to rise to Allah in a pillar of fire...





Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
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Canterbury

http://rt.com/usa/215323-americans-ground-battle-isis/



​American forces were involved in their first ground battle with Islamic State fighters, according to Kurdish media outlet Shafaq News, near the Ain Al-Assad base in the Anbar province of Iraq early Sunday. The report could not be independently verified.

US forces allegedly came to the aid of tribal fighters and the Iraqi Army battling Islamic State (also known as ISIS or ISIL) militants in the Al-Dolab area, 10 km (6.2 miles) from the Ain Al-Assad base, which is about 90 km (56 miles) west of Anbar’s capital, Ramadi.

"US forces intervened because … ISIS started to come near the base, which they are stationed in so out of self-defense, they responded,” said Sheikh Mahmud Nimrawi, a tribal leader in the area, according to Shafaq.

The base hosts about 100 US military advisers, the report claimed.

An Iraqi Army field commander in Anbar said that "the US force equipped with light and medium weapons, supported by fighter force model F-18" was able to hit Islamic State targets, forcing them to retreat from Al-Dolab.

The clash with Islamic forces lasted for more than two hours, as American jets also hit several Islamic State fighters, according to Colonel Salam Nazim.

"We have made progress in Al-Dolab area, in which ISIS has withdrawn from to the villages beyond, after the battles which involved a private American force” that surprised Islamic State fighters, tribal leader Sheikh Mahmud Nimrawi said.

The American forces returned to Ain Al-Assad base after the mission, according to Nimrawi, who added that the "US promised to provide tribal fighters who are in that region exclusively with weapons.”

The Pentagon has not released information on any American involvement in ground fighting with Islamic State.

Since announcing US-led-coalition airstrikes against Islamic State in August, US President Barack Obama has repeatedly stated that he would not commit troops to another ground war in Iraq. Yet the Pentagon’s top brass have since said that the option remains on the table.

US Secretary of State John Kerry told Congress last week that President Obama “has been crystal clear” about his preference to rely on local forces to defeat the Islamic State. But Kerry told the Senate Foreign Relations Committee that any congressional authorization of military force against Islamic State militants should not ban the use of American ground forces, or place a “geographic limitation” on the effort.

“[W]e certainly believe this is the soundest policy, and while the president has been clear he's open to clarifications on the use of US combat troops to be outlined in an AUMF, that does not mean we should preemptively bind the hands of the commander in chief – or our commanders in the field – in responding to scenarios and contingencies that are impossible to foresee,” Kerry said.

Meanwhile, Iraqi Kurdish forces began Wednesday an operation to retake Sinjar, in northwestern Iraq, after US-led coalition airstrikes targeted Islamic State positions overnight, Kurdish security officials said, according to Reuters.

"At 8:00 this morning the ground offensive began to liberate Sinjar town," said one official in the region's Security Council, adding that coalition jets hit the area beforehand.

"There's evidence that a lot of IS fighters abandoned their weapons and fled the area."

Should the offensive prove successful, it could open a path to Sinjar mountain, where hundreds of Yazidis - an ethnic Kurdish minority - have been trapped by Islamic State since August.

Upon authorizing airstrikes in August, Obama said the action was necessary to protect American personnel and to offer humanitarian aid to the besieged Yazidis

Kurdish forces have regained much ground lost to Islamic State in northern Iraq since the summer, according to Reuters.


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Echoes of Vietnam in the above post by reds8n

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deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd 
   
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Looks like we opted out a few key leaders today

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 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Echoes of Vietnam in the above post by reds8n


Speaking of, we're sending another thousand "advisors" to Iraq.


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

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Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 Ouze wrote:
 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Echoes of Vietnam in the above post by reds8n


Speaking of, we're sending another thousand "advisors" to Iraq.


Huh... whatever happens to "no boots on the ground"? Are they wearing sneakers?


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 whembly wrote:
 Ouze wrote:
 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Echoes of Vietnam in the above post by reds8n


Speaking of, we're sending another thousand "advisors" to Iraq.


Huh... whatever happens to "no boots on the ground"? Are they wearing sneakers?



It's one hell of a battalion run.
   
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 Bromsy wrote:


It's one hell of a battalion run.


And singing!

Bring the good old bugle, boys, we'll sing another song
Sing it with a spirit that will start the world along
Sing it as we used to sing it, 50,000 strong
While we were marching through Georgia.

Hurrah! Hurrah! we bring the jubilee!
Hurrah! Hurrah! the flag that makes you free!
So we sang the chorus from Atlanta to the sea
While we were marching through Georgia.

How the darkeys shouted when they heard the joyful sound
How the turkeys gobbled which our commissary found
How the sweet potatoes even started from the ground
While we were marching through Georgia.

Hurrah! Hurrah! we bring the jubilee!
Hurrah! Hurrah! the flag that makes you free!
So we sang the chorus from Atlanta to the sea
While we were marching through Georgia.

Hurrah! Hurrah! we bring the jubilee!
Hurrah! Hurrah! the flag that makes you free!
So we sang the chorus from Atlanta to the sea
While we were marching through Georgia.

"Sherman's dashing Yankee boys will never reach the coast!"
So the saucy rebels said and 'twas a handsome boast
Had they not forgot, alas! to reckon with the Host
While we were marching through Georgia.

Hurrah! Hurrah! we bring the jubilee!
Hurrah! Hurrah! the flag that makes you free!
So we sang the chorus from Atlanta to the sea
While we were marching through Georgia.

So we made a thoroughfare for freedom and her train,
Sixty miles in latitude, three hundred to the main;
Treason fled before us, for resistance was in vain
While we were marching through Georgia.


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Battalion run building up to a Division run



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The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer

 whembly wrote:
Does the West care anymore?

I mean... this is the real War on Women™.

ISIS released a sex guide to the capture, punishment, and rape of sex slaves.

Someone, please tell me this is a joke... please.

Spoiler:
"Question 1: What is al-sabi?
"Al-Sabi is a woman from among ahl al-harb [the people of war] who has been captured by Muslims.

"Question 2: What makes al-sabi permissible?
"What makes al-sabi permissible [i.e., what makes it permissible to take such a woman captive] is [her] unbelief. Unbelieving [women] who were captured and brought into the abode of Islam are permissible to us, after the imam distributes them [among us]."

"Question 3: Can all unbelieving women be taken captive?
"There is no dispute among the scholars that it is permissible to capture unbelieving women [who are characterized by] original unbelief [kufr asli], such as the kitabiyat [women from among the People of the Book, i.e. Jews and Christians] and polytheists. However, [the scholars] are disputed over [the issue of] capturing apostate women. The consensus leans towards forbidding it, though some people of knowledge think it permissible. We [ISIS] lean towards accepting the consensus…"

"Question 4: Is it permissible to have intercourse with a female captive?
"It is permissible to have sexual intercourse with the female captive. Allah the almighty said: '[Successful are the believers] who guard their chastity, except from their wives or (the captives and slaves) that their right hands possess, for then they are free from blame [Koran 23:5-6]'..."

"Question 5: Is it permissible to have intercourse with a female captive immediately after taking possession [of her]?
"If she is a virgin, he [her master] can have intercourse with her immediately after taking possession of her. However, is she isn't, her uterus must be purified [first]…"

"Question 6: Is it permissible to sell a female captive?
"It is permissible to buy, sell, or give as a gift female captives and slaves, for they are merely property, which can be disposed of [as long as that doesn't cause [the Muslim ummah] any harm or damage."

"Question 7: Is it permissible to separate a mother from her children through [the act of] buying and selling?
"It is not permissible to separate a mother from her prepubescent children through buying, selling or giving away [a captive or slave]. [But] it is permissible to separate them if the children are grown and mature."

"Question 8: If two or more [men] buy a female captive together, does she then become [sexually] permissible to each of them?
"It is forbidden to have intercourse with a female captive if [the master] does not own her exclusively. One who owns [a captive] in partnership [with others] may not have sexual intercourse with her until the other [owners] sell or give him [their share]."

"Question 9: If the female captive was impregnated by her owner, can he then sell her?
"He can't sell her if she becomes the mother of a child..."

"Question 10: If a man dies, what is the law regarding the female captive he owned?
"Female captives are distributed as part of his estate, just as all [other parts] of his estate [are distributed]. However, they may only provide services, not intercourse, if a father or [one of the] sons has already had intercourse with them, or if several [people] inherit them in partnership."

"Question 11: May a man have intercourse with the female slave of his wife?
"A man may not have intercourse with the female slave of his wife, because [the slave] is owned by someone else."

"Question 12: May a man kiss the female slave of another, with the owner's permission?
"A man may not kiss the female slave of another, for kissing [involves] pleasure, and pleasure is prohibited unless [the man] owns [the slave] exclusively."

"Question 13: Is it permissible to have intercourse with a female slave who has not reached puberty?
"It is permissible to have intercourse with the female slave who hasn't reached puberty if she is fit for intercourse; however if she is not fit for intercourse, then it is enough to enjoy her without intercourse."

"Question 14: What private parts of the female slave's body must be concealed during prayer?
"Her private body parts [that must be concealed] during prayer are the same as those [that must be concealed] outside [prayer], and they [include] everything besides the head, neck, hands and feet."

"Question 15: May a female slave meet foreign men without wearing a hijab?
"A female slave is allowed to expose her head, neck, hands, and feet in front of foreign men if fitna [enticement] can be avoided. However, if fitna is present, or of there is fear that it will occur, then it [i.e. exposing these body parts becomes] forbidden."

"Question 16: Can two sisters be taken together while taking slaves?
"It is permissible to have two sisters, a female slave and her aunt [her father's sister], or a female slave and her aunt [from her mother's side]. But they cannot be together during intercourse, [and] whoever has intercourse with one of them cannot have intercourse with the other, due to the general [consensus] over the prohibition of this."

"Question 17: What is al-'azl?
"Al-'azl is refraining from ejaculating on a woman's pudendum [i.e. coitus interruptus]."

"Question 18: May a man use the al-'azl [technique] with his female slave?
"A man is allowed [to use] al-'azl during intercourse with his female slave with or without her consent."

"Question 19: Is it permissible to beat a female slave?
"It is permissible to beat the female slave as a [form of] darb ta'deeb [disciplinary beating], [but] it is forbidden to [use] darb al-takseer [literally, breaking beating], [darb] al-tashaffi [beating for the purpose of achieving gratification], or [darb] al-ta'dheeb [torture beating]. Further, it is forbidden to hit the face."

Question 20: What is the ruling regarding a female slave who runs away from her master?
"A male or female slave's running away [from their master] is among the gravest of sins…"

"Question 21: What is the earthly punishment of a female slave who runs away from her master?
"She [i.e. the female slave who runs away from her master] has no punishment according to the shari'a of Allah; however, she is [to be] reprimanded [in such a way that] deters others like her from escaping."

"Question 22: Is it permissible to marry a Muslim [slave] or a kitabiyya [i.e. Jewish or Christian] female slave?
"It is impermissible for a free [man] to marry Muslim or kitabiyat female slaves, except for those [men] who feared to [commit] a sin, that is, the sin of fornication…"

"Question 24: If a man marries a female slave who is owned by someone else, who is allowed to have intercourse with her?
"A master is prohibited from having intercourse with his female slave who is married to someone else; instead, the master receives her service, [while] the husband [gets to] enjoy her [sexually]."

"Question 25: Are the huddoud [Koranic punishments] applied to female slaves?
"If a female slave committed what necessitated the enforcement of a hadd [on her], a hadd [is then] enforced on her – however, the hadd is reduced by half within the hudud that accepts reduction by half…"

"Question 27: What is the reward for freeing a slave girl?
"Allah the exalted said [in the Koran]: 'And what can make you know what is [breaking through] the difficult pass [hell]? It is the freeing of a slave.' And [the prophet Muhammad] said: 'Whoever frees a believer Allah frees every organ of his body from hellfire.'"


Now that is just wrong.

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United States

 whembly wrote:

Huh... whatever happens to "no boots on the ground"? Are they wearing sneakers?


No, and you're just reiterating a bad interpretation of what the President actually said.

Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. 
   
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Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 dogma wrote:
 whembly wrote:

Huh... whatever happens to "no boots on the ground"? Are they wearing sneakers?


No, and you're just reiterating a bad interpretation of what the President actually said.

No... I'm criticizing the President for talking both sides of his mouth.

Where's the "announcement"?

What's the "objective"?

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WHembly.....I would help you in that chain of thought but..




A airstrike that happen recently

Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
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Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
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DE 6700
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RIP Muhammad Ali.

Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha


 
   
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!



Good point.

Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
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United States

 whembly wrote:

No... I'm criticizing the President for talking both sides of his mouth.


In that sense Obama put "boots on the ground" over a month ago.

 whembly wrote:

Where's the "announcement"?


Here.

Funnier, the WaPo article I was going to cite, because it had a better video, got pulled because WaPo journalists are dumb.

Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. 
   
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Got one Beheader

Algeria army kills man behind French beheading




ALGIERS, Algeria – Algeria's Ministry of Defense says the man behind the kidnapping and beheading of a French hiker in September has been killed in a military operation.

The statement says Abdelmalek Gouri was killed together with two associates late Monday near the city of Boumerdes, east of the capital.

Two other militants were killed Tuesday morning nearby, added the statement.

A group calling itself Jund al-Khilafah and pledging allegiance to the Islamic State group in Syria kidnapped French hiker Herve Gourdel in the Djurdjura mountains.

Gourdel was beheaded on video a few days later when demands for France to end airstrikes were not met.

The Algerian army carried out a massive operation to find the group behind the kidnapping and said two other members have been killed in past months.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
82nd it seems is moving a Battalion to BIAP Iraq next month

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/23 20:34:06


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Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha


 
   
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This Is Where the Fish Lives

As if this was really a surprise:

The Islamic State is failing at being a state
Spoiler:
GAZIANTEP, Turkey — The Islamic State’s vaunted exercise in state-building appears to be crumbling as living conditions deteriorate across the territories under its control, exposing the shortcomings of a group that devotes most of its energies to fighting battles and enforcing strict rules.

Services are collapsing, prices are soaring, and medicines are scarce in towns and cities across the “caliphate” proclaimed in Iraq and Syria by the Islamic State, residents say, belying the group’s boasts that it is delivering a model form of governance for Muslims.

Slick Islamic State videos depicting functioning government offices and the distribution of aid do not match the reality of growing deprivation and disorganized, erratic leadership, the residents say. A trumpeted Islamic State currency has not materialized, nor have the passports the group promised. Schools barely function, doctors are few, and disease is on the rise.

In the Iraqi city of Mosul, the water has become undrinkable because supplies of chlorine have dried up, said a journalist living there, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to protect his safety. Hepatitis is spreading, and flour is becoming scarce, he said. “Life in the city is nearly dead, and it is as though we are living in a giant prison,” he said.

In the Syrian city of Raqqa, the group’s self-styled capital, water and electricity are available for no more than three or four hours a day, garbage piles up uncollected, and the city’s poor scavenge for scraps on streets crowded with sellers hawking anything they can find, residents say.

ideos filmed in secret by an activist group show desperate women and children clamoring for handouts of food, while photographs posted on the Internet portray foreign militants eating lavish spreads, a disparity that is starting to stir resentment.

Much of the assistance that is being provided comes from Western aid agencies, which discreetly continue to help areas of Syria under Islamic State control. The United States funds health-care clinics and provides blankets, plastic sheeting and other items to help the neediest citizens weather the winter, a U.S. official said, speaking on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the subject.

The government workers who help sustain what is left of the crumbling infrastructure, in Syrian as well as Iraqi cities, continue to be paid by the Syrian government, traveling each month to collect their salaries from offices in government-controlled areas.

“ISIS doesn’t know how to do this stuff,” said the U.S. official, using an acronym for the group. “When stuff breaks down, they get desperate. It doesn’t have a whole lot of engineers and staff to run the cities, so things are breaking down.”

There are also signs of falling morale among at least some of the fighters, whose expectations of quick and easy victories have been squashed by U.S.-led airstrikes. A notice distributed in Raqqa this month called on fighters who were shirking their duties to report to the front lines, and a new police force was created to go house to house to root them out.

There is no indication that the hardships are likely to lead to rebellion, at least not soon. Fear of draconian punishments and the absence of alternatives deter citizens from complaining too loudly, the residents said, in interviews conducted while they were on visits to neighboring Turkey or over the Internet.

But the deterioration is undermining at least one important aspect of the Islamic State’s self-proclaimed identity — as a state, dedicated to reviving the 7th-century caliphate that once ruled the Muslim world. Governing is as central to that goal as the military conquests that occurred as Islamic State fighters swept through much of Syria and Iraq over the past year.

The group’s momentum on the battlefield has been slowed by the U.S.-led air campaign, which has helped reverse or stall Islamic State offensives on numerous fronts, from the tiny town of Kobane in northern Syria to the farmland south of Baghdad.

That the group is also failing to deliver services in the areas it does control calls into question the sustainability of its larger ambition.

The Islamic State “is not this invincible monster that can control everything and defeat everyone,” said an activist in the eastern Syrian city of Deir al-Zour, who also spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe the ineffectual delivery of services there.

“The whole idea that it is well organized and an administrative entity is wrong. It is just an image.”

‘They have no expertise’
It is in Raqqa, the first major city to fall under Islamic State control more than a year ago and the cradle of its governance experiment, that the discrepancy is perhaps most conspicuous. A Raqqa businessman who traveled to Mosul recently said the Iraqi city is in far better shape than his own city in Syria, where people are being driven away by the specter of hunger and devastating government bombing raids that have killed mostly civilians.

he bombardments have played a big role in straining the infrastructure. U.S. airstrikes, aimed at Islamic State targets, have also contributed, forcing the group to abandon many of its government buildings. American attacks on the small, makeshift oil refineries that many citizens relied on for income have deepened the deprivation, leaving many people without income and sending prices soaring.

Whether the Islamic State’s administration was ever as capable as it has been portrayed appears to be in doubt, Syrians say. Those who could afford to flee areas controlled by the group have done so, disproportionately including the professionals and technocrats whose skills are needed to run government services.

Syrians say the Islamic State’s administration is overseen by a network of shadowy emirs or princes. Lower-level positions are occupied by Syrians or foreigners who often lack administrative or technical skills.

“ISIS has become too big to control itself,” said a Syrian aid worker who regularly interacts with Islamic State officials and who spoke on the condition of anonymity in order not to compromise his dealings with the group. He finds them willing and cooperative, “but they’re not smart, and they’re not capable. They have no expertise.”

For most citizens, the main interaction with the Islamic State is with its ubiquitous police and security agencies, including the notorious Hesbah, which patrols the streets in quest of those transgressing the group’s harsh interpretation of Islamic law.

Those rules continue to be rigidly enforced. Shopkeepers shut their stores five times a day for prayer. Smokers have quit for fear of the obligatory three-day jail sentence for a first offense — and a month for a second. Public executions for theft, blasphemy and dissent are on the rise. A new punishment, for homosexuality, in which the accused is thrown off a tall building, has been implemented twice in recent weeks.

To some, better than Assad
Meanwhile, crime has plunged, and for many residents the order is a welcome alternative to the lawlessness that prevailed when more moderate Syrian rebels were in charge. Syrians who lived for decades under the regime of President Bashar al-Assad are accustomed to obeying orders, and many have adapted to the new rules, said a government employee in the former tax department who collects his salary from the government, even though he is no longer working.

“Daesh are not as cruel as the regime was,” he said, using an Arabic name for the militants. With the Islamic State in charge, “if you don’t do anything wrong — according to their standards, not ours — they will not bother you.”

The strict enforcement of rules sometimes undermines efforts to deliver services, however. When electricity workers raced to repair cables damaged by government shelling in the town of Deir al-Zour, the Islamic State detained and lashed them for violating a prohibition on working during prayer time, said the Deir al-Zour activist.

Everyone on the staff of one of the city’s four functioning field hospitals was detained as they held a meeting because three of them were smoking.

There is no indication that the Islamic State’s income, estimated at $12 million a month, is suffering. Syrians continue to sign up because there are no other jobs available, residents say.

Islamic State functionaries also continue to exact payments, going door to door to collect taxes from shopkeepers and fees for electricity and telephones.

“If the regime did not supply telecoms and salaries, I don’t think ISIS could survive,” said Hassan Hassan, a Syrian analyst with the Abu Dhabi-based Delma Institute. “It charges people for things the regime is providing. But it’s not viable as a state.”

Tensions are emerging between the local populace and the foreign fighters, estimated by U.S. officials and analysts to number around 15,000, or about half of the total fighting force. Foreigners get paid in dollars, while Syrian recruits, known as munasir, or helpers, are paid in Syrian pounds.

Islamic State fighters are treated in their own secretly located field hospitals, while civilians are forced to rely on the collapsing private hospitals, said Abu Mohammed, an activist with Raqqa Is Being Slaughtered Silently, a group that works to draw attention to conditions under the Islamic State. He uses a nickname to protect his safety.

“People are fed up with them and would like to get rid of them,” he said. “But they don’t have the ability.”
source

 d-usa wrote:
"When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
 
   
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Everett, WA

I... don't even know where to begin.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/the-us-and-iran-are-aligned-in-iraq-against-the-islamic-state--for-now/2014/12/27/353a748c-8d0d-11e4-a085-34e9b9f09a58_story.html

Missy Ryan and Loveday Morris wrote:The U.S. and Iran are aligned in Iraq against the Islamic State — for now


A Shi'ite fighter, center, mans a heavy machine gun as he takes his position on at the outskirts of Balad, north of Baghdad December 25, 2014. (Stringer/Reuters)

Iranian military involvement has dramatically increased in Iraq over the past year as Tehran has delivered desperately needed aid to Baghdad in its fight against Islamic State militants, say U.S., Iraqi and Iranian sources. In the eyes of Obama administration officials, equally concerned about the rise of the brutal Islamist group, that’s an acceptable role — for now.

Yet as U.S. troops return to a limited mission in Iraq, American officials remain apprehensive about the potential for renewed friction with Iran, either directly or via Iranian-backed militias that once attacked U.S. personnel on a regular basis.

A senior Iranian cleric with close ties to Tehran’s leadership, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss security matters, said that since the Islamic State’s capture of much of northern Iraq in June, Iran has sent more than 1,000 military advisers to Iraq, as well as elite units, and has conducted airstrikes and spent more than $1 billion on military aid.

“The areas that have been liberated from Daesh have been thanks to Iran’s advice, command, leaders and support,” the cleric said, using the Arabic acronym for the group.

At the same time, Iraq’s Shiite-led government is increasingly reliant on the powerful militias and a massive Shiite volunteer force, which together may now equal the size of Iraq’s security forces.

Although the Obama administration says it is not coordinating directly with Iran, the two nations’ arms-length alliance against the Islamic State is an uncomfortable reality. That’s not only because some of the militia shock troops who have proved effective in fighting the Islamic State battled U.S. forces during the 2003-2011 war there, but also because, in Syria, Iran continues to support President Bashar al-Assad, whom the United States would like to see toppled. U.S. diplomats, meanwhile, are pushing ahead with negotiations to reach a deal on Iran’s nuclear program to prevent the country from developing a nuclear weapon.

Ali Khedery, who advised several U.S. ambassadors in Iraq, said the tensions that fueled a U.S.-Iran confrontation in Iraq after 2003 are masked by the shared desire to defeat the Islamic State, also known as ISIS.

“ISIS will be defeated,” said Khedery, who runs a strategic consulting firm in Dubai. “The problem is that afterwards, there will still be a dozen militias, hardened by decades of battle experience, funded by Iraqi oil, and commanded or at least strongly influenced by [Iran’s Revolutionary Guard Corps]. And they will be the last ones standing.”

While the departure of U.S. troops in 2011 provided space for Iran to expand its influence in Iraq, Tehran’s support for paramilitary groups has intensified since the appearance of the Sunni militant group, which Iran’s Shiite leaders see as a serious threat to their interests. Combat troops from the Quds Force, a unit of the Revolutionary Guard Corps, now travel to Iraq “from time to time for specific operations with coordination with the Kurdish and Iraqi governments,” the senior Iranian cleric said.

Qassim Soleimani, the Quds Force commander, has become the face of Iran’s operations in Iraq, with photos of the commander on the front lines circulating on social media.

“He’s our friend, and we are very proud of his friendship,” said Hadi al-Amiri, who heads the Badr Brigade, a Shiite militia. “Anyone now who comes and helps us fight Daesh, we welcome them. We cannot liberate the country by the Iraqi forces alone.”

James Jeffrey, a former U.S. ambassador to Iraq, said the Obama administration may have made a mistake by not conducting limited airstrikes after the Islamic State’s initial advance.

Iraqi officials pleaded for assistance this summer as the militants appeared poised to overrun the Iraqi Kurdish city of Irbil and even Baghdad, the capital. But White House officials, frustrated by what they saw as the sectarian policies of then-Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, insisted first on political reforms.

“The Iraqis were in desperate straits, and the only ones who came to their rescue was Iran,” Jeffrey said. “These guys will remember that.”

During that time, Iraqi Kurds, the United States’ most constant ally in Iraq, accepted weapons from Iran. “If it was Iran that was coming to [our] aid or the United States, we needed to prevent Irbil from falling into the hands of ISIS,” said a Kurdish official, who, like other officials, spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss security matters.

The collapse of much of Iraq’s army in June also provided momentum and popular support for the increasingly public operations of Iranian-backed militias, such as the Badr Brigade, Kataib Hezbollah, Asaib Ahl al-Haq, and a growing number of smaller splinter groups.

Sheik Jassim al-Saidi, a commander with Kataib Hezbollah, said his group has more than tripled in size since June, now boasting more than 30,000 combatants.

“Iran never left Iraq,” he said in an interview in a house next door to his Baghdad mosque, which has turned into a military base for militia fighters and is packed with crates of weapons. “This very close relationship has made Iran support Iraq all they can.”

Saidi flicked through pictures on his phone showing him visiting Iran’s Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei during a recent visit to Iran.

Kataib Hezbollah, designated a terrorist organization by the United States, has received new supplies of Ashtar and Karrar rockets from Iran in recent months, he said. The Karrar has been used by the group only once, Saidi said, against an American base in 2011. “It was like a thunderbolt falling from the sky on them,” he said.

American unease about the militia resurgence intensified when U.S. officials detected a lot of chatter via intelligence and diplomatic channels after Obama’s Sept.­­ 10 speech, in which he outlined his administration’s expanded strategy for countering the Islamic State, including airstrikes and a growing U.S. force in Iraq.

“There was a lot of commotion . . . a lot of Shiite militant mobilization in a way that made us very nervous,” a senior U.S. official said. U.S. diplomats worked for weeks to allay Iranian concerns about a U.S. return to Iraq, reaching out to Iraqi Shiite officials in order to telegraph a message to Tehran: Renewed U.S. military involvement in Iraq would be much more limited than it was last time.

“That message we do know resonated and got through to people all over, in Iran and elsewhere,” the official said.

As Obama deploys a force of up to 3,000 to retrain Iraqi troops, there have been no signs of hostility between U.S. forces and Iranian advisers or Shiite militiamen. Unlike in the past, U.S. troops will be confined to bases or headquarters and will not have direct combat roles.

Yet the possibility for confrontation is “something we’re constantly worried about . . . as we flow more personnel in there,” a senior U.S. defense official said.

Reports of abuses by Shiite militiamen have increased in recent months, raising fears that militia death squads that helped fuel past sectarian violence are on the march.

Another U.S. official said the militias’ combat power has come “at a steep price.”

“Various Shia militants have pursued scorched-earth tactics, leading to the displacement of thousands of Sunni civilians,” the official said.

American officials are also watching to see whether Iraqi Prime Minister Haider al-Abadi has the political clout to hold his unity government together and keep paramilitary forces in check.

Obama’s top advisers are betting that the United States can help contain militia power in the long term by rebuilding a smaller, stronger Iraqi army and backing a new national guard that might incorporate Sunni and Shiite paramilitary fighters.

“This is the single best opportunity we have to counter the Shia militant efforts and mitigate the influence that Iran will have,” the senior U.S. official said.



 
   
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Fort Campbell

I look at this two ways. ISIS is definitely the greater evil, so there is that. And if the Iraqi government has welcomed them, then who are we to say otherwise?

Sure, we could get into a pissing contest and pull out, but in the end we are the ones looking like jerks.

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Because they can use state resources to fund active terrorist campaigns. Uncontested they can train, arm, and ship terrorists to various places around the world.

I am the Hammer. I am the right hand of my Emperor. I am the tip of His spear, I am the gauntlet about His fist. I am the woes of daemonkind. I am the Hammer. 
   
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its going to go to ground and then raise its ugly head again down the road.

Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog
Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
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Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha


 
   
Made in us
Most Glorious Grey Seer





Everett, WA

 djones520 wrote:
And if the Iraqi government has welcomed them, then who are we to say otherwise?
There is so much wrong with this sentiment I don't even know where to start.


 
   
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Lord of the Fleet





Seneca Nation of Indians

 Breotan wrote:
And if the Iraqi government has welcomed them, then who are we to say otherwise?
There is so much wrong with this sentiment I don't even know where to start.


He has a point though. the US has, on occasion, embraced terrorists when it suited US foreign policy. It will most likely bite everyone in the ass in the long run, though.


Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
Made in us
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No, then they're called "freedom fighters". That totally makes it cool.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/29 04:22:26


I am the Hammer. I am the right hand of my Emperor. I am the tip of His spear, I am the gauntlet about His fist. I am the woes of daemonkind. I am the Hammer. 
   
 
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