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More like, the inaction and naïve appeasement allowed Hitler the time to build up his war machine to the point that German forces were far beyond the limited capabilities of mainland Europe, and forced both Britain & France into a fighting withdrawl from a vastly superior armed force.
I suspect that the concept of peace talks as 'delaying tactic' might be beyond him. It certainly seems beyond France and Germany atm in the Ukraine.
So ISIS has the kind of infrastructure to ramp up a army and weapons to match the US? Or are you guys just worried they'll find the weapons of mass destruction that must still be in Iraq?
It's sad that you lot of blood thirsty savages can only come to a answer of genocide, and that's considered the rational response.
So ISIS has the kind of infrastructure to ramp up a army and weapons to match the US? Or are you guys just worried they'll find the weapons of mass destruction that must still be in Iraq?
It's sad that you lot of blood thirsty savages can only come to a answer of genocide, and that's considered the rational response.
Let me ask you a question: Do you think guys who's treatment of prisoners includes beheading and burning them alive on camera are going to sit down at the peace table and even have a meaningful discussion?
What do you think you can offer them? The US going away isn't going to cut it. So, what will? According to them, the world wide conversion to their brand of Islam, the legalization of the slave trade, and a world wide ban on the education of women. and that's to start. I highly doubt that even it's neighbors, let alone most western countries will sign on with that.
Hell, let's say they do sit down and sign a treaty.
They already are in possession of a nuclear weapons research facility at Deir al-Zor. I figure about ten years before our first thermonuclear suicide bomber.
I'd say that a ruthless approach is frankly the only practical solution to this.
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
I'd say that a ruthless approach is frankly the only practical solution to this.
I agree that a targeted, yet VERY ruthless approach is the way to go. Drones simply aren't going to cut it. I'm talking SEAL Team 6, SAS teams, or Green Beret TYPES (yes, I know Canadians have sent their bearded wunderkind SF guys out there in green camo)... The type of warrior whose risk of losing their heads are very low. Afterall, we're trying to liberate people from slavery and oppression, so we don't want some Marines going off and "wasting the whole lot of them"
Genocide is bad, which is why I, and many others here are talking about boots on the ground, to begin peace talks via 5.56mm "diplomatic messages"
I'd say that a ruthless approach is frankly the only practical solution to this.
I agree that a targeted, yet VERY ruthless approach is the way to go. Drones simply aren't going to cut it. I'm talking SEAL Team 6, SAS teams, or Green Beret TYPES (yes, I know Canadians have sent their bearded wunderkind SF guys out there in green camo)... The type of warrior whose risk of losing their heads are very low. Afterall, we're trying to liberate people from slavery and oppression, so we don't want some Marines going off and "wasting the whole lot of them"
Genocide is bad, which is why I, and many others here are talking about boots on the ground, to begin peace talks via 5.56mm "diplomatic messages"
Their force is made up of tens of thousands. They are fighting a multi-front war with Syria, Iraq, and the Kurds. This is going to take more then SOF to handle. SOF is not the be all end all. If they could handle every task, we would have no need for conventional forces.
Dealing with ISIS would take a division sized 1st world force, minimum. And I'm saying that is bare minimum. Our style of warfare, we won't go in with less then 3-4 divisions to deal with that. And given that they operate largely in a nation that is very hostile to us, boots on the ground to truly deal with these guys would probably see much higher numbers, because we'd not only need to deal with them, we'd need a buffer to keep Syria back.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/08 23:34:20
Guys ISIS can be left alone.Jordan is attacking them.The West simply isnt needed when a nation that cool is on the case. The king of Jordan will lead a cavalry charge and behead every member of ISIS.We have nothing to fear.
Kote!
Kandosii sa ka'rte, vode an.
Coruscanta a'den mhi, vode an.
Bal kote,Darasuum kote,
Jorso'ran kando a tome.
Sa kyr'am nau tracyn kad vode an.
Bal...
Motir ca'tra nau tracinya.
Gra'tua cuun hett su dralshy'a.
Aruetyc talyc runi'la trattok'a.
Sa kyr'am nau tracyn kad, vode an!
Their force is made up of tens of thousands. They are fighting a multi-front war with Syria, Iraq, and the Kurds. This is going to take more then SOF to handle. SOF is not the be all end all. If they could handle every task, we would have no need for conventional forces.
Dealing with ISIS would take a division sized 1st world force, minimum. And I'm saying that is bare minimum. Our style of warfare, we won't go in with less then 3-4 divisions to deal with that.
I agree, and know this... However, this region is already rife with sectarianism, and all kinds of other volatile things. However, I think the last thing we want, are any more stories of Marines or Soldiers (probably from 101st or 82nd, as they are regarded very highly for combat abilities) raping women or any other negative type situations, even though we DO punish those who do that sort of thing.
I don't think that ISIS/ISIL are anything like Hydra, where if you cut off the head, 10 more grow in it's place. As such, I think that, if we were able to learn/know the location of the leaders of ISIS, we could use SOF assets to remove the actual head from this beast.
If we (the west go,back into the region with ground forces, we'd quickly become the enemy once again and we'd be embroiled in yet another decade long occupation and counter insurgency operation. Remember, we entered Iraq as liberators and left as crusading imperialist occupiers.
It's time the Muslim world learnt to deal with its own gak. This is their back yard, they should fix it. (Jordan, Turkey, Egypt, Iran, Saudi Arabia etc. And yes, I'm aware that they're divided between opposing sectarian sides).
We're being used and manipulated to do the dirty work of opposing belligerents in a sectarian cold war/proxy war.
*By "we" I mean my country, don't read too much into it.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
KalashnikovMarine wrote: I don't think we raped any Indigs while we were in country that I remember.
Oh I'm sure there were some genuine incidents, but they could probably be numbered on one hand. Two at a stretch.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Da krimson barun wrote: Guys ISIS can be left alone.Jordan is attacking them.The West simply isnt needed when a nation that cool is on the case. The king of Jordan will lead a cavalry charge and behead every member of ISIS.We have nothing to fear.
Except for Jordan blowing up western hostages, if ISIS is to be believed.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/02/08 23:53:59
KalashnikovMarine wrote: I don't think we raped any Indigs while we were in country that I remember.
Yeah, it wasn't many, but really, I wasn't referring to just one crime.... I remember one of the "OMG USA is so EVIL because of Iraq" threads, someone kept insisting that we destroyed ALL of the public works type buildings (damns, hospitals, electric power plants, sewage processing, etc), which is obviously not true, but if there was one news article about soldiers coming under contact from such a facility, then it just confirmed the negative bias that some users/people in general have.
And, I think that the US would do very well to avoid any/as much negative press as possible right now.
We can't really rely on the countries in the Middle East to deal with this. Yemen can't even handle itself right now. Saudi Arabia is going through a huge governmental change. Iraq and Syria, well we know how successful they've been. Egypt is still reeling from the troubles its been dealing with the last few years. Jordan is getting into the fight, which is great, but I doubt it will be enough. Granted, they have decent hardware, and we do train with them a lot, they probably have one of the best militaries in the Arabian Peninsula, but it is one small nation. Oman? U.A.E? Qatar? Kuwait? None of them will be able to do a thing. We (U.S.) are their military.
Most nations in that part of the world use us as their big bad bulldog to keep Iran from causing them issues. As such, all they can do is throw words at ISIS, nothing more. Expecting them to get something done... well it isn't going to happen.
Feth em then. They'll hate us for interfering, and they'll hate us for not interfering. At some point we have to stop playing Jihadi whack-a-mole and tell em it's their turn.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/09 00:47:06
Jordan's King Abdullah reacted emotionally to a video showing the apparent immolation of a Jordanian fighter pilot shot down over Syrian airspace. The Jordanian leader promised to fight ISIS, who killed the pilot, until his military ran "out of fuel and bullets." His vows of revenge even included quoting Clint Eastwood to US lawmakers.
When he arrived back in Jordan from Washington, where he happened to be when the pilot was killed, he swiftly executed three prisoners in an apparent demonstration of resolve.
The White House vowed to stand united with Jordan to "defeat [the] scourge" of ISIS.
Abdullah's strident stance against jihadists fighting to overthrow the Assad government in Syria is, if genuine, quite a turnaround. After all, for the past three-plus years he provided assistance and safe passage for all manner of radical jihadist to enter Syria through Jordan.
Yes, Abdullah had long been an ally of sorts to the kinds of radicals responsible for burning alive Jordanian pilot Moaz al-Kasasbeh. He provided space and cooperation to US and NATO's rebel training programs on Jordanian soil, with many "graduates" of the program later joining ISIS and al-Qaeda.
In 2013, Syrian president Assad warned Jordan's Abdullah that he was "playing with fire" by supporting the rebels fighting to overthrow the Syrian government. How right he was. Literally.
Burning prisoners alive is breathtakingly barbaric. Providing aid and comfort to the kinds of people would do such things is, in many respects, even worse.
Save the tears, Abdullah, you helped create this mess.
Spoiler:
In 2013, Syrian president Assad warned Jordan's Abdullah that he was "playing with fire"
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: Feth em then. They'll hate us for interfering, and they'll hate us for not interfering. At some point we have to stop playing Jihadi whack-a-mole and tell em it's their turn.
And doing nothing gets us where? Another plane in a building. More subway bombings. More newspapers shot up.
These are people who cut the heads off of children because they don't understand religion. Only a fool thinks that they will stay put once they take over in that region.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/09 00:59:01
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: Feth em then. They'll hate us for interfering, and they'll hate us for not interfering. At some point we have to stop playing Jihadi whack-a-mole and tell em it's their turn.
The problem is that happens and they go tits up, and then everyone has a real problem on their hands. Imagine an army of slaves and religious fanatics backed by real hardware. ISIS makes no bones about the fact they're an expansionist power. They want to conquer.
The fact is that the middle east occupied by a hostile power is bad not just economically, but strategically. And pretty much everyone seems ot know it. That's why a single rocket that kills a pedestrian makes the news, but you can slaughter thousands in Africa or South America without a trace of a CNN/FOX/BBC/etc anchor there broadcasting live.
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
So ISIS has the kind of infrastructure to ramp up a army and weapons to match the US? Or are you guys just worried they'll find the weapons of mass destruction that must still be in Iraq?
It's sad that you lot of blood thirsty savages can only come to a answer of genocide, and that's considered the rational response.
Let me ask you a question: Do you think guys who's treatment of prisoners includes beheading and burning them alive on camera are going to sit down at the peace table and even have a meaningful discussion?
What do you think you can offer them? The US going away isn't going to cut it. So, what will? According to them, the world wide conversion to their brand of Islam, the legalization of the slave trade, and a world wide ban on the education of women. and that's to start. I highly doubt that even it's neighbors, let alone most western countries will sign on with that.
Hell, let's say they do sit down and sign a treaty.
They already are in possession of a nuclear weapons research facility at Deir al-Zor. I figure about ten years before our first thermonuclear suicide bomber.
I'd say that a ruthless approach is frankly the only practical solution to this.
They should take the US's example of how to treat prisoners, and just put a bullet in their head, and dump them in the ocean. the US is in no position to protest how prisoners are treated.
Do you have a source for what they want?
You figure 10 years for that? based on what? Didn't you already blow that place up?
They should take the US's example of how to treat prisoners, and just put a bullet in their head, and dump them in the ocean. the US is in no position to protest how prisoners are treated.
Two things, One I'm not an American. Two, I know of acts done to prisoners that make that bullet in the head seem like a mercy. *eyes your Canadian flag* I can even tell you some done by Canada and Britain that would probably give you a complex.
I've sat down to the table with terrorists, and I can tell you for a fact they come in two types: those that are interested in a political solution, and those that are not. ISIS is one of the latter. Even Hamas is better at keeping up their end of a bargain than ISIS is, and I will say as a matter of fact that anyone willing to burn someone alive on camera just to make a point is not someone who's going to honor their treaty obligations.
You figure 10 years for that? based on what? Didn't you already blow that place up?
No, Israel blew up 'a' place back in 2007, which led to the Syrian government putting nuclear material further from the Israeli boarder. However, what was secure in 2007 is now in the hands of ISIS. I figure ten years for that as Pakistan exported part of their nuclear program to Syria in the early 2000s. Unlike Iraq, Syria had a real nuclear program, supported by several of it's neighbors and Russia.
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So ISIS has the kind of infrastructure to ramp up a army and weapons to match the US? Or are you guys just worried they'll find the weapons of mass destruction that must still be in Iraq?
It's sad that you lot of blood thirsty savages can only come to a answer of genocide, and that's considered the rational response.
Let me ask you a question: Do you think guys who's treatment of prisoners includes beheading and burning them alive on camera are going to sit down at the peace table and even have a meaningful discussion?
What do you think you can offer them? The US going away isn't going to cut it. So, what will? According to them, the world wide conversion to their brand of Islam, the legalization of the slave trade, and a world wide ban on the education of women. and that's to start. I highly doubt that even it's neighbors, let alone most western countries will sign on with that.
Hell, let's say they do sit down and sign a treaty.
They already are in possession of a nuclear weapons research facility at Deir al-Zor. I figure about ten years before our first thermonuclear suicide bomber.
I'd say that a ruthless approach is frankly the only practical solution to this.
They should take the US's example of how to treat prisoners, and just put a bullet in their head, and dump them in the ocean. the US is in no position to protest how prisoners are treated.
Do you have a source for what they want?
You figure 10 years for that? based on what? Didn't you already blow that place up?
It boggles my mind that some liberals are trying so hard to defend the terrorist, especially when comparing them to the West.
I mean, ya'll are willfully ignoring:
-treatment of women
-killing gays (throwning them off buildings and stoning them)
-actual slavery
-pedofiles
-true barbarism.
But, to some... the fact that we dumped water on a few faces renders our opinion null.
You see, ISIS is pure evil and deserves to be destroyed, but then claiming that torture methods are "just dumping water on a few faces" makes you look like a fool.
Trying to defend ISIS makes you far more of a fool.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/09 06:46:28
Prestor Jon wrote: Because children don't have any legal rights until they're adults. A minor is the responsiblity of the parent and has no legal rights except through his/her legal guardian or parent.
They should take the US's example of how to treat prisoners, and just put a bullet in their head, and dump them in the ocean. the US is in no position to protest how prisoners are treated.
Two things, One I'm not an American. Two, I know of acts done to prisoners that make that bullet in the head seem like a mercy. *eyes your Canadian flag* I can even tell you some done by Canada and Britain that would probably give you a complex.
I've sat down to the table with terrorists, and I can tell you for a fact they come in two types: those that are interested in a political solution, and those that are not. ISIS is one of the latter. Even Hamas is better at keeping up their end of a bargain than ISIS is, and I will say as a matter of fact that anyone willing to burn someone alive on camera just to make a point is not someone who's going to honor their treaty obligations.
You figure 10 years for that? based on what? Didn't you already blow that place up?
No, Israel blew up 'a' place back in 2007, which led to the Syrian government putting nuclear material further from the Israeli boarder. However, what was secure in 2007 is now in the hands of ISIS. I figure ten years for that as Pakistan exported part of their nuclear program to Syria in the early 2000s. Unlike Iraq, Syria had a real nuclear program, supported by several of it's neighbors and Russia.
Anybody who choose to use WMD like nuke at ISIL is a fool. ISIL is what?, 50k to 100k strong at best... You think they all live in one packed stadium so you can nuke them? They are located in region of 3 nations that hold millions of inocent people that ISIl took over....you nuke that area, and you killed millions. You destroyed their home and make it unlivable bc of fall out and radiation for years to come. You killed current ISIL and you just gave birth to future ISIL in the millions.
You use nuke and you justified to the world that we are the evil empire that they have been be promoting. We give in to their demand. We go to war...we give in to them again.
I don't have a solution, but do nothing is also a solution and a do nothing solution is much much better than nuke or going to war with them.
I also have a rule about going to war. If you are not in the military and you want us to go to war, you must join the war and enlist or send a family member to that war. Other wise, you can only talk and try to convince other to go. I don't want to be in another combat and I don't want my friends, family, or inocent kid dying for your foolish desire. If you are in the military, then ok I respect your opinion. We have been in a state of war for over 15 years now. ISIL are bad MOther f and I consider some od the worst scum in the world.... But guess what, I also consider kkk, the cribs and bloods, Latin Kings, neo nazi, North Korea, and the list goes on.... I don't mobilize a fighting force to kicked their asses.
ISIL are terrorist group and they are smart... They want usa to fight them so they can kill Americans and enlist more members because Middle East hates usa. If they start killing usa people in the thousands, then we goto war. Right now .." They killed less than a few american and trying to "scare" us into their war. Don't be a fool.
Let the Middle East sort it out themselves.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/09 07:37:47
Every moving aircraft that I saw in that video had guidance systems on the bombs. Sure there were scenes of dummy bombs (sans guidance), but everyone of those aircraft were still being serviced.
I've not worked the flightline, I don't know when the guidance systems are attached, but it's possible that Jordans AF waits until the last minute to do that. *shrugs*
Can somebody explain to me what happens to all the fighters and missile (large missile or on trucks) or large powerful war machines like tanks and war ships (if their were any in the port or river). Do ISIL have those weapons? Who pilot them? I mean.. those pilots joined ISIL?
I just keep assuming that ISIL have small arms, cannons, artillery, and armor trucks. NO air at all.
Thanks
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/09 11:52:24
They probably have access to aircraft, but we (anti-ISIS forces) control the skies, so it would do them no good to try to get the aircraft off the ground.
djones520 wrote: They probably have access to aircraft, but we (anti-ISIS forces) control the skies, so it would do them no good to try to get the aircraft off the ground.
What about chopper and heavy armor vehicle like tanks? What about missile silo or truck mounted SCUDD milssile?
djones520 wrote: They probably have access to aircraft, but we (anti-ISIS forces) control the skies, so it would do them no good to try to get the aircraft off the ground.
What about chopper and heavy armor vehicle like tanks? What about missile silo or truck mounted SCUDD milssile?
They've probably got all of those as well.
They've captured Iraqi military bases, i'm guessing they've gotten their hands on Syrian military equipment.
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: Feth em then. They'll hate us for interfering, and they'll hate us for not interfering. At some point we have to stop playing Jihadi whack-a-mole and tell em it's their turn.
And doing nothing gets us where? Another plane in a building. More subway bombings. More newspapers shot up.
These are people who cut the heads off of children because they don't understand religion. Only a fool thinks that they will stay put once they take over in that region.
The vast majority of which are committed by western citizens, born and raised in western/European cities, not ISIS immigrants.
Please explain to me how bombing people thousands of miles away will stop the home grown terrorists in our own cities? If anything, bombing the Middle East just helps radicalize even more people here. Our "War on Terror" is a god send for the likes of ISIS and Al Qaeda, because its extremely easy to spin into a "War on Islam".
Only a fool thinks that they will stay put once they take over in that region.
Stop straw manning please. I never said that. I KNOW ISIS wants to expand. And I don't care. Its up to the nations in the region to deal with, not us. If need be, we can provide technical, logistical and financial support to those nations (Jordan), hell maybe even send our Special Forces over (because this is what they're for after all) but sending a dedicated combat force to take and hold territory and combat ISIS, like Iraq and Afghanistan? Feth no. I'm sick of America and Europe policing the world, getting our militaries bogged down into endless, un-winnable conflicts that drain our already fragile economies of trillions, that just provide a goldmine of propaganda for jihadi recruiters.
There are enough Islamic extremists at home, theres no need to go picking fights in the world and remaking the mistakes of Iraq.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
go,back into the region with ground forces, we'd quickly become the enemy once again and we'd be embroiled in yet another decade long occupation and counter insurgency operation. Remember, we entered Iraq as liberators and left as crusading imperialist occupiers.
