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Yep, apparently, the red starbucks cup is much more of a "war on Christians" than the pagan goddess logo that's used year round
In relation to this topic, probably one of the best memes I've seen of the recent Paris incidents, reads "Pray for Paris?....... Who should we pray to, the god that caused the attacks, or the god who did nothing to stop them?"
Yep, apparently, the red starbucks cup is much more of a "war on Christians" than the pagan goddess logo that's used year round
That's an asinine development.
In relation to this topic, probably one of the best memes I've seen of the recent Paris incidents, reads "Pray for Paris?....... Who should we pray to, the god that caused the attacks, or the god who did nothing to stop them?"
Um... God don't "cause this or that" as it's more about free will and responsibility.
Co'tor Shas wrote: Now that is the mark of a true enthusiast. You even have more than me!
And if I don't discipline myself its going to be 600+ by Christmas...
Co'tor Shas wrote: I don't think anybody is actually claiming that they aren't Muslim. They don't represent Islam, but they are still Muslim.
Have you been on social media lately?
You mean this virtual place where the fethers who can yell the loudest are automatically assumed to be the only representatives of the group they claim to belong to ?
Glad I left this place long ago.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/16 19:35:12
nullBolt wrote: Something that's really been irritating me is the idea that "ISIS is not Muslim".
How is this even remotely true? I don't argue the Inquisition or the WBC isn't Christian or some equally ridiculous point.
Hell, ISIS is arguably more Muslim than other Muslims.
Your comment reveals your bias.
How is ISIL more Muslim than Naadiyah who won the BBC's Great British Bake-Off, or more Muslim than my old school pal Timothy Winter (Shaykh Abdal Hakim Murad), or more Muslim than the French policeman who was shot by the Charlie Hebdo attackers?
The best solution I see is to send in Western, Russian and Iranian soldiers to pacify the region, then support Assad and Iran to keep cracking down hard on dissent after we leave again.
...
This actually is a plan that could work. We will have to eat some crow, though.
However, if the French want to gather support for attacking ISIL on the ground, my one vote as a UK citizen will be to support them to the utmost our currently enfeebled armed forces (Thanks, Call Me Dave) can manage.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/16 19:41:38
By the same methods that reasonable people do not believe that the KKK or the Westboro Baptist Church accurately reflect the beliefs of most Christians.
And I say this as someone who believes in God, but does not believe in God in the same way that most people do. There are many who say I would be better off claiming to be an agnostic or an atheist... but I very firmly believe in the existence of God, and I also, just as firmly, believe He is a murderous psychopath.
The question is not whether they accurately represent the beliefs of most Christians but whether they accurately reflect the beliefs of Christianity.
In WBC's and the KKK's case, they probably don't. They utilise the Old Testament which was meant to be moot post-Christ.
How is ISIL more Muslim than Naadiyah who won the BBC's Great British Bake-Off, or more Muslim than my old school pal Timothy Winter (Shaykh Abdal Hakim Murad), or more Muslim than the French policeman who was shot by the Charlie Hebdo attackers?
Because they more closely follow the hadiths than any of those people? Because they follow the word of Mohammed (Prophet and the example of what every Muslim should aspire to be)?
No, no they don't. They follow specific fundamentalist interpretations of the teachings of Mohammed, much like how certain fundamentalist Christian groups who practice hardline patriarchy, polygamy and arranged marriages (and more).
The idea that the Old Testament became "moot" after Jesus was around is a fairly modern concept, and actually runs exactly counter to what Jesus is quoted as saying (Matthew 5:17-18, "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. (18)For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.…"). But living by the Old Testament is, for just about everyone in the Western world, inconvenient, at best, and damned difficult in any regard.
So... yes. Sorry. Modern Christians? Most of them are "doing it wrong" but this is largely accepted practice by all of the major faiths. There may be some points of contention on certain points, but none really concern themselves with the wearing of mixed fabrics and the like.
It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised.
Psienesis wrote: No, no they don't. They follow specific fundamentalist interpretations of the teachings of Mohammed, much like how certain fundamentalist Christian groups who practice hardline patriarchy, polygamy and arranged marriages (and more).
The idea that the Old Testament became "moot" after Jesus was around is a fairly modern concept, and actually runs exactly counter to what Jesus is quoted as saying (Matthew 5:17-18, "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. (18)For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.…"). But living by the Old Testament is, for just about everyone in the Western world, inconvenient, at best, and damned difficult in any regard.
So... yes. Sorry. Modern Christians? Most of them are "doing it wrong" but this is largely accepted practice by all of the major faiths. There may be some points of contention on certain points, but none really concern themselves with the wearing of mixed fabrics and the like.
Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"
Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah"
Quran (17:16) - "And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to the people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction."
Bukhari (52:177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."
Bukhari (52:256) - The Prophet... was asked whether it was permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The Prophet replied, "They (i.e. women and children) are from them (i.e. pagans)."
Tabari 9:69 "Killing Unbelievers is a small matter to us"
The killing of unbelievers is stated as a sacred duty in the Qu'ran and in some of the most trustworthy hadiths. There's none of the mistranslation and butchering of language that we have in the Bible (from Aramaic to Greek to Latin to English) nor really much of the ability to see nuance or false meaning in it. It is very specific in its wording.
Hebrews 8:13: By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
John 14:6: Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
Pretty much establish that the Old Testament is wrong for Christians to follow, especially Hebrews 8:13.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/16 20:10:53
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
It doesn't nullify it though. What is and isn't sin hasn't changed from Old to New.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
"You shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskins, and it shall be a sign of the covenant between me and you. Genesis 17. God promised to make Abraham the father of a great people and said that Abraham and his descendants must obey God"
Which means that what Jesus said was that salvation was now open to people who weren't descended from Abraham, meaning that Heaven was now open for business for non-Jews. End of story. That is *all* that changed.
It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised.
"You shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskins, and it shall be a sign of the covenant between me and you. Genesis 17. God promised to make Abraham the father of a great people and said that Abraham and his descendants must obey God"
Which means that what Jesus said was that salvation was now open to people who weren't descended from Abraham, meaning that Heaven was now open for business for non-Jews. End of story. That is *all* that changed.
Circumcision is a symbol of the covenant, not the covenant itself. The laws of God are the covenant.
Anyway, I don't particular care either way about this. We're moving away from the fact that killing of unbelievers is a legitimate and sacred duty of Muslims.
Grey Templar wrote: It doesn't nullify it though. What is and isn't sin hasn't changed from Old to New.
Yes, it has. Everything not directly proscribed by Jesus is not a sin.
Jesus is the word made flesh. The Word is everything from Genesis to Revelation. Sin hasn't changed, there was no statement that this is the new definition of sin, all the other stuff is now OK.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
We quoting scriptures now?
It doesn't take much of an excuse/cause/motivation/dedication/old/new/same/misguided idiot to apply 9 lbs to a trigger
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
Grey Templar wrote: Jesus is the word made flesh. The Word is everything from Genesis to Revelation. Sin hasn't changed, there was no statement that this is the new definition of sin, all the other stuff is now OK.
Again, I don't particularly care either way about this.
I advise you to read Galatians, Hebrews and Romans, though, all of which pretty much directly point to the concept that the Law of God is Jesus and therefore only Jesus' words count as the Law of God.
Religion is not the sole owner of being "Blood Thirsty"
I'm a pretty relax guy, no religious conviction at all, firm believer coffee/tea/grits make the world a better place
Though I am a firm believer of "Do unto others as they do unto to you but up it one by calling in a airstrike"
We've a few nutjobs ourselves. Couple incidents involving whack jobs in 2ID at Ft Lewis being a example
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
LethalShade wrote: Anyway, what's your point ? That Muslims are bloodthirsty ? Most of them are peaceful.
My point is that the very foundation of Islam is filled with a direct call for the religious to come to arms and kill unbelievers. Also, if you read the Pew report you'll see even moderate and peaceful Muslims support Sharia law which involves the stoning and killing of people such as homosexuals: http://www.pewforum.org/files/2013/04/worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf
Jihadin wrote: We quoting scriptures now?
It doesn't take much of an excuse/cause/motivation/dedication/old/new/same/misguided idiot to apply 9 lbs to a trigger
For real though.
A lot of ISIS is made up of people that went all in on psycho inhuman murderer. Hell, there are tons of videos were you can see the process happening. The leadership in ISIS has their mooks murder innocent people to take away their ability to go back.
They round up innocent people then stick a weapon in the new guys hand and tell them to kill or be killed. You get two options, one you die and the other you kill. If you pick kill then your all in, no going back. So you become a fanatic because that is the only way to rationalize. Mexican drug cartels do the same thing. I wouldn't bet against that a lot of ISIS fighters are drug addicts too like the those psychos in Africa do to children to get them to fight.
If you feth around inside of ISIS's ideological orbit sooner or later your going to get the two options...
LethalShade wrote: Anyway, what's your point ? That Muslims are bloodthirsty ? Most of them are peaceful.
My point is that the very foundation of Islam is filled with a direct call for the religious to come to arms and kill unbelievers. Also, if you read the Pew report you'll see even moderate and peaceful Muslims support Sharia law which involves the stoning and killing of people such as homosexuals: http://www.pewforum.org/files/2013/04/worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf
France is doing a pretty good job at the minute. Emergency measures, clear out Jihadist mosques (where, apparently, they've been stockpiling quite a bit of weaponry which is the dumbest stuff I've ever seen) and then prevent the mass immigration we're currently having. It's not like mass immigration gives any real benefit to the working classes, all it seems to do is damage us economically.
A good chunk of this stuff will come into effect within the next decade or so as the EU is probably going to collapse considering how many countries are now flouting the Dublin Convention and the Free Movement of Citizens Directive.
There's very little you can do. I just get very irritated when people post dumb stuff like "ISIS are not real Muslims".
Wouldn't you enjoy it? The thrill of righteous anger is the best drug.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/16 21:03:20
thenoobbomb wrote: Assad has been fighting ISIS ever since they set a foot in Syria.
That's, sadly, not true. Assad has used the approach of the enemy of my enemy is my friend throughout this, and until the last six months, has been allied with IS against other rebel factions. Only when IS started seizing depots that Assad still held did they officially turn on each other.
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
So he basically took a page from the US playbook in the region? He probably should have looked at what happened with that in Afghanistan (and NYC) but, eh, no one claimed he was the sharpest knife in the drawer.
On the topic of Sharia Law... all Muslim law is Sharia law. Not all Muslim law is hard-line, ultraconservative law (again, a lot of what is or is not Muslim is up to the interpretations of the Quran). However, that religious people want to have laws written by their religion be the law of the land should come as absolutely no surprise to anyone, as that is the current party platform of the Republican Party in the United States, some members of which who are currently running for President having recently met with a pastor who has publically stated his support for the death penalty to be applied to homosexuals.
Basically, I find nothing in Sharia Law more frightening than the so-called "Christian Law" that the right-wing of the US is pushing forward.
It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised.
What is this "Christian Law" and who advocates it, so that I can be assured to not vote for them.
EDIT: I'm assuming its not: THOU SHALT EAT BACON AND PEPPERONI ON THINE PIZZA. I'm a heavy subscriber to that law.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/17 19:12:41
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nullBolt wrote: Something that's really been irritating me is the idea that "ISIS is not Muslim".
How is this even remotely true? I don't argue the Inquisition or the WBC isn't Christian or some equally ridiculous point.
Hell, ISIS is arguably more Muslim than other Muslims.
1.
Christians deny that the WBC is a Christian organisation. Very very few Christians disagree with that statement.
ISIS, or as we perhaps should now say Daesh, has a lot of support from Moslems, and many more Moslems are mealy mouthed over condemnation of the organisation.
2.
You can point to the New Testament and show how the WBC directly oppose the teachings of Christinity.
You can point to the Koran and see passages supporting Daesh, and while their methods are extreme they are largely not un-scriptural.
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
Psienesis wrote: So he basically took a page from the US playbook in the region? He probably should have looked at what happened with that in Afghanistan (and NYC) but, eh, no one claimed he was the sharpest knife in the drawer.
On the topic of Sharia Law... all Muslim law is Sharia law. Not all Muslim law is hard-line, ultraconservative law (again, a lot of what is or is not Muslim is up to the interpretations of the Quran). However, that religious people want to have laws written by their religion be the law of the land should come as absolutely no surprise to anyone, as that is the current party platform of the Republican Party in the United States, some members of which who are currently running for President having recently met with a pastor who has publically stated his support for the death penalty to be applied to homosexuals.
Basically, I find nothing in Sharia Law more frightening than the so-called "Christian Law" that the right-wing of the US is pushing forward.
There's very little interpretation of the Qu'ran. You either accept it as the divine word of god or you do not. Either everything inside is factual statements that must be followed or they are not. There is no interpretation as there is in modern Christianity and Judaism. Then America would be the only Christian country to put such a punishment into effect, compared to around half of the Muslim world (the rest is life imprisonment). Hadiths are a different matter in that they are disputed about whether or not Mohammed did the things stated in some of them but they are otherwise considered important.
It's less what it or isn't frightening and more what people are willing to do to achieve it. I can't remember the last time a group of Christians murdered a bunch of people in the West.
Orlanth wrote: 1.
Christians deny that the WBC is a Christian organisation. Very very few Christians disagree with that statement.
ISIS, or as we perhaps should now say Daesh, has a lot of support from Moslems, and many more Moslems are mealy mouthed over condemnation of the organisation.
2.
You can point to the New Testament and show how the WBC directly oppose the teachings of Christinity.
You can point to the Koran and see passages supporting Daesh, and while their methods are extreme they are largely not un-scriptural.
Psienesis wrote: So he basically took a page from the US playbook in the region? He probably should have looked at what happened with that in Afghanistan (and NYC) but, eh, no one claimed he was the sharpest knife in the drawer.
On the topic of Sharia Law... all Muslim law is Sharia law. Not all Muslim law is hard-line, ultraconservative law (again, a lot of what is or is not Muslim is up to the interpretations of the Quran). However, that religious people want to have laws written by their religion be the law of the land should come as absolutely no surprise to anyone, as that is the current party platform of the Republican Party in the United States, some members of which who are currently running for President having recently met with a pastor who has publically stated his support for the death penalty to be applied to homosexuals.
Basically, I find nothing in Sharia Law more frightening than the so-called "Christian Law" that the right-wing of the US is pushing forward.
I guess if you ignore the fact that it's illegal to murder somebody because they're homosexual here in the US and that there is literally zero chance of Congress ever passing legislation making homosexuality a capital crime and having that law withstand a judicial challenge if by some unfathomable scenario it got passed. Unfortunately, there are many Muslim countries where they currently punish homosexuality with death. There's a rather large difference between politicians taking money from or pandering for votes from religious zealots/bigots and a society that actively persecutes and executes homosexuals.
Psienesis wrote: So he basically took a page from the US playbook in the region? He probably should have looked at what happened with that in Afghanistan (and NYC) but, eh, no one claimed he was the sharpest knife in the drawer.
On the topic of Sharia Law... all Muslim law is Sharia law. Not all Muslim law is hard-line, ultraconservative law (again, a lot of what is or is not Muslim is up to the interpretations of the Quran). However, that religious people want to have laws written by their religion be the law of the land should come as absolutely no surprise to anyone, as that is the current party platform of the Republican Party in the United States, some members of which who are currently running for President having recently met with a pastor who has publically stated his support for the death penalty to be applied to homosexuals.
Basically, I find nothing in Sharia Law more frightening than the so-called "Christian Law" that the right-wing of the US is pushing forward.
I guess if you ignore the fact that it's illegal to murder somebody because they're homosexual here in the US and that there is literally zero chance of Congress ever passing legislation making homosexuality a capital crime and having that law withstand a judicial challenge if by some unfathomable scenario it got passed. Unfortunately, there are many Muslim countries where they currently punish homosexuality with death. There's a rather large difference between politicians taking money from or pandering for votes from religious zealots/bigots and a society that actively persecutes and executes homosexuals.
Let's not forget Uganda, chrisians might not make killing homosexuals legal in the US, but they've been pushing that idea in africa. There are many christian countries where they punish homosexuality with death. And of course, there's Matt McLaughlin, in california, whos still fighting the good fight.
