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I never said or implied anything like that, no one deserves that. I'm saying one side or the other has to want peace, you'd think it would be the "enlightened" west, but they seem to be enjoying playing war.
It's a cycle, they attack france, america & friends drop more bombs and kill 100x the innocent civilians and wait for the next retaliatory attack.
I'm going to highlight one word of yours to illustrate my point.
I never said or implied anything like that, no one deserves that. I'm saying one side or the other has to want peace, you'd think it would be the "enlightened" west, but they seem to be enjoying playing war.
It's a cycle, they attack france, america & friends drop more bombs and kill 100x the innocent civilians and wait for the next retaliatory attack.
I'm going to highlight one word of yours to illustrate my point.
BOTH sides must want peace.
It takes two to tango...
all it takes is one to offer the olive branch and ask for peace, and neither side seems willing to do so.
I never said or implied anything like that, no one deserves that. I'm saying one side or the other has to want peace, you'd think it would be the "enlightened" west, but they seem to be enjoying playing war.
It's a cycle, they attack france, america & friends drop more bombs and kill 100x the innocent civilians and wait for the next retaliatory attack.
I'm going to highlight one word of yours to illustrate my point.
BOTH sides must want peace.
It takes two to tango...
all it takes is one to offer the olive branch and ask for peace, and neither side seems willing to do so.
I never said or implied anything like that, no one deserves that. I'm saying one side or the other has to want peace, you'd think it would be the "enlightened" west, but they seem to be enjoying playing war.
It's a cycle, they attack france, america & friends drop more bombs and kill 100x the innocent civilians and wait for the next retaliatory attack.
I'm going to highlight one word of yours to illustrate my point.
BOTH sides must want peace.
It takes two to tango...
all it takes is one to offer the olive branch and ask for peace, and neither side seems willing to do so.
So whom do we beseech for peace?
how about that celephat guy? The US seems to know who their top leaders are. They're always bragging when they kill one.
It's a cycle, they attack france, america & friends drop more bombs and kill 100x the innocent civilians and wait for the next retaliatory attack.
ISIS tells everyone that they have to go after the US and France because they are Crusader nations that want to kill Muslims and when the bombs start dropping they go "see, I told you so".
It's almost like those other people that tell everyone that Muslims are all just waiting to kill Christians and that Islam is evil and then run to Facebook to post "see, I told you so".
I never said or implied anything like that, no one deserves that. I'm saying one side or the other has to want peace, you'd think it would be the "enlightened" west, but they seem to be enjoying playing war.
It's a cycle, they attack france, america & friends drop more bombs and kill 100x the innocent civilians and wait for the next retaliatory attack.
I'm going to highlight one word of yours to illustrate my point.
BOTH sides must want peace.
It takes two to tango...
all it takes is one to offer the olive branch and ask for peace, and neither side seems willing to do so.
So whom do we beseech for peace?
how about that celephat guy? The US seems to know who their top leaders are. They're always bragging when they kill one.
The caliphate in Raqqa, Syria? He's on record of wanting to destroy the 'west' unless we submit to the Caliphate..
I never said or implied anything like that, no one deserves that. I'm saying one side or the other has to want peace, you'd think it would be the "enlightened" west, but they seem to be enjoying playing war.
It's a cycle, they attack france, america & friends drop more bombs and kill 100x the innocent civilians and wait for the next retaliatory attack.
I'm going to highlight one word of yours to illustrate my point.
BOTH sides must want peace.
It takes two to tango...
all it takes is one to offer the olive branch and ask for peace, and neither side seems willing to do so.
So whom do we beseech for peace?
how about that celephat guy? The US seems to know who their top leaders are. They're always bragging when they kill one.
The caliphate in Raqqa, Syria? He's on record of wanting to destroy the 'west' unless we submit to the Caliphate..
so what? since WWII was already brought up, hitlers goals were:
The Nazi's ultimate goals were the complete and total eradication of the Jewish population along with the elimination of other undesirables including blacks, gays, Romani gypsies, and more. By eliminating these 'undesirables', the party believed that they could allow their pure Aryan bloodline to spread and lead the nation to glory.
But that didn't stop the alllies from having peace talks with germany, hell they even hosted the olympics.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/19 01:09:18
Kilkrazy wrote: Why judge people by some arguable idea of what their religion supposedly tells them to do when you can judge them by their actions?
Because unfortunately the world isn't simple like that. Religion does have a play in it. Whether or not the actual core teachings of the religion are "peaceful" or not, in many many places in the world, the religion that is being taught is NOT peaceful.
Can we apply this logic to christians as well? Obviously due to the every growing number of christians killing their kids, committing mass shootings, and blowing up buildings, it must be because the religion that is being taught is NOT peaceful. Right?
When was the last incident of infanticide, mass murder or bombing that was done by Christian fundamentalists yelling Deus Vult! and proclaiming that their Christian beliefs required them to commit murder? I can't recall hearing of one and that seems like it would be the kind of thing that made the news.
They made the news, you just didn't notice.
infanticide, just last month:
Spoiler:
Oct 14, 2015 at 10:31am
"A central New York couple has been charged with fatally beating their 19-year-old son inside a church and four fellow church members have been charged with assault in an attack that also left the young man's brother severely injured, police said Tuesday.
Bruce Leonard, 65, and Deborah Leonard, 59, of Clayville, were charged with first-degree manslaughter in the death of their son Lucas, said Lt. Timothy O'Neill of the New Hartford Police Department. O'Neill said Lucas Leonard died Monday after he was beaten at Word of Life Church in New Hartford, which is 80 miles northwest of Albany.
His 17-year-old brother is hospitalized in serious condition with injuries from an assault.
So remember: "Religion does have a play in it. Whether or not the actual core teachings of the religion are "peaceful" or not, in many many places in the world, the religion that is being taught is NOT peaceful."
Muslim terrorists launch organized attacks against hundreds of people in Paris killing dozens and your evidence that Christians are extreme too are acts of vandalism and arson in which not a single person was hurt and an isolated incident of one person being murdered by his family during some sort of bizarre ritual? Muslim terrorists bimb embassies, marketplaces, schools, attack malls, police stations, sporting events, restaurants, launch campaigns of violence and rioting over the free expression of ideas they don't like, etc. While in contrast in America a few bigots spray paint malicious graffiti on mosques. Is there another group of terrorist organizations launching well organized large scale attacks across multiple continents and countries all in the name of their fundamentalist religious beliefs that they all share and publicly profess at every opportunity?
I never said or implied anything like that, no one deserves that. I'm saying one side or the other has to want peace, you'd think it would be the "enlightened" west, but they seem to be enjoying playing war.
It's a cycle, they attack france, america & friends drop more bombs and kill 100x the innocent civilians and wait for the next retaliatory attack.
I'm going to highlight one word of yours to illustrate my point.
BOTH sides must want peace.
It takes two to tango...
all it takes is one to offer the olive branch and ask for peace, and neither side seems willing to do so.
So whom do we beseech for peace?
how about that celephat guy? The US seems to know who their top leaders are. They're always bragging when they kill one.
The caliphate in Raqqa, Syria? He's on record of wanting to destroy the 'west' unless we submit to the Caliphate..
so what? since WWII was already brought up, hitlers goals were:
The Nazi's ultimate goals were the complete and total eradication of the Jewish population along with the elimination of other undesirables including blacks, gays, Romani gypsies, and more. By eliminating these 'undesirables', the party believed that they could allow their pure Aryan bloodline to spread and lead the nation to glory.
But that didn't stop the alllies from having peace talks with germany, hell they even hosted the olympics.
Yeah we let Germany host the Olympics and what happens? Muslim terrorists show up and murder people.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/19 01:22:00
Kilkrazy wrote: Why judge people by some arguable idea of what their religion supposedly tells them to do when you can judge them by their actions?
Because unfortunately the world isn't simple like that. Religion does have a play in it. Whether or not the actual core teachings of the religion are "peaceful" or not, in many many places in the world, the religion that is being taught is NOT peaceful.
Can we apply this logic to christians as well? Obviously due to the every growing number of christians killing their kids, committing mass shootings, and blowing up buildings, it must be because the religion that is being taught is NOT peaceful. Right?
When was the last incident of infanticide, mass murder or bombing that was done by Christian fundamentalists yelling Deus Vult! and proclaiming that their Christian beliefs required them to commit murder? I can't recall hearing of one and that seems like it would be the kind of thing that made the news.
They made the news, you just didn't notice.
infanticide, just last month:
Spoiler:
Oct 14, 2015 at 10:31am
"A central New York couple has been charged with fatally beating their 19-year-old son inside a church and four fellow church members have been charged with assault in an attack that also left the young man's brother severely injured, police said Tuesday.
Bruce Leonard, 65, and Deborah Leonard, 59, of Clayville, were charged with first-degree manslaughter in the death of their son Lucas, said Lt. Timothy O'Neill of the New Hartford Police Department. O'Neill said Lucas Leonard died Monday after he was beaten at Word of Life Church in New Hartford, which is 80 miles northwest of Albany.
His 17-year-old brother is hospitalized in serious condition with injuries from an assault.
So remember: "Religion does have a play in it. Whether or not the actual core teachings of the religion are "peaceful" or not, in many many places in the world, the religion that is being taught is NOT peaceful."
Muslim terrorists launch organized attacks against hundreds of people in Paris killing dozens and your evidence that Christians are extreme too are acts of vandalism and arson in which not a single person was hurt and an isolated incident of one person being murdered by his family during some sort of bizarre ritual? Muslim terrorists bimb embassies, marketplaces, schools, attack malls, police stations, sporting events, restaurants, launch campaigns of violence and rioting over the free expression of ideas they don't like, etc. While in contrast in America a few bigots spray paint malicious graffiti on mosques. Is there another group of terrorist organizations launching well organized large scale attacks across multiple continents and countries all in the name of their fundamentalist religious beliefs that they all share and publicly profess at every opportunity?
hey that looks like the list of places the christian nation of america bombed when bush jr declared his crusade and caused over 1 million deaths in the name of god.
edit, oh and lets remember the majority of casualties are innocent victims like the ones who died in france.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/19 01:26:52
Kilkrazy wrote: Why judge people by some arguable idea of what their religion supposedly tells them to do when you can judge them by their actions?
Because unfortunately the world isn't simple like that. Religion does have a play in it. Whether or not the actual core teachings of the religion are "peaceful" or not, in many many places in the world, the religion that is being taught is NOT peaceful.
Can we apply this logic to christians as well? Obviously due to the every growing number of christians killing their kids, committing mass shootings, and blowing up buildings, it must be because the religion that is being taught is NOT peaceful. Right?
When was the last incident of infanticide, mass murder or bombing that was done by Christian fundamentalists yelling Deus Vult! and proclaiming that their Christian beliefs required them to commit murder? I can't recall hearing of one and that seems like it would be the kind of thing that made the news.
They made the news, you just didn't notice.
infanticide, just last month:
Spoiler:
Oct 14, 2015 at 10:31am
"A central New York couple has been charged with fatally beating their 19-year-old son inside a church and four fellow church members have been charged with assault in an attack that also left the young man's brother severely injured, police said Tuesday.
Bruce Leonard, 65, and Deborah Leonard, 59, of Clayville, were charged with first-degree manslaughter in the death of their son Lucas, said Lt. Timothy O'Neill of the New Hartford Police Department. O'Neill said Lucas Leonard died Monday after he was beaten at Word of Life Church in New Hartford, which is 80 miles northwest of Albany.
His 17-year-old brother is hospitalized in serious condition with injuries from an assault.
So remember: "Religion does have a play in it. Whether or not the actual core teachings of the religion are "peaceful" or not, in many many places in the world, the religion that is being taught is NOT peaceful."
Muslim terrorists launch organized attacks against hundreds of people in Paris killing dozens and your evidence that Christians are extreme too are acts of vandalism and arson in which not a single person was hurt and an isolated incident of one person being murdered by his family during some sort of bizarre ritual? Muslim terrorists bimb embassies, marketplaces, schools, attack malls, police stations, sporting events, restaurants, launch campaigns of violence and rioting over the free expression of ideas they don't like, etc. While in contrast in America a few bigots spray paint malicious graffiti on mosques. Is there another group of terrorist organizations launching well organized large scale attacks across multiple continents and countries all in the name of their fundamentalist religious beliefs that they all share and publicly profess at every opportunity?
hey that looks like the list of places the christian nation of america bombed when bush jr declared his crusade and caused over 1 million deaths in the name of god.
Please show me where Pres Bush and the US Congress declared war on Islam, called for a crusade or proclaimed that we had to bomb people because God wanted us to do it.
I get it, you don't like Christians or religions but there is a huge difference between people who happen to be Christians making decisions and people deliberately choosing to commit certain actions in the name of God/Christ or because they literally believe that they are doing the will of God. You can read the declaration of war issued against Iraq by Congress in 2003 and it never states that God wants us to bomb people.
CptJake wrote: Germany and Japan both had industry that could be rebuilt and relatively modern infrastructures that though we blew them up all kinds of ways, the people knew how to redo modern infrastructures and keep them going, and in neither place did we face they types of systemic corruption we see in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Em.... wrong. About the corruption, anyway.
Germany was rife with it, and the US army even indulged in racketeering to a degree. The whole mess was shoveled under the rug by Truman in a hurry, but it was quite the scandal of the day. Japan was more dignified about it, and this era saw the biggest rise in the power of the Yakuza since their inception.
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
Again, here are your Christian terrorists: The conflict, one of Africa's longest running, has resulted in a very severe humanitarian crisis. The LRA is accused of widespread human rights violations, including mutilation, torture, slavery, rape, the abduction of civilians, the use of child soldiers, and a number of massacres.[21] By 2004, the LRA had abducted more than 20,000 children, while 1.5 million civilians had been displaced and an estimated 100,000 civilians killed.
We already mentioned the Army of God active in the US.
There is Eastern Lightning, fundamentalist Christians in China known for violence against non-Christians.
We also have the National Liberation Front of Tripura, they want to establish a Christian country and kill Buddhist and won't tolerate any other religion.
Christian Militias in the Central African Republic destroyed mosques, massacred Muslim villages, engaged in cannibalism, and have driven almost 140,000 Muslims out of the country with their attacks. Just one of the stories:
The National Socialist Council of Nagaland in India also wants to establish a Christian country based on Baptist believes, they recently reformed after a long period of inactivity and they signed a peace deal, so we'll see how that goes.
Also already covered are the various Christian Identity groups, including the Aryan Nation, that are active all around the globe and in the US.
People who are violent will find an outlet, but that outlet didn't cause the violence to begin with.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/11/19 01:45:36
Please show me where Pres Bush and the US Congress declared war on Islam, called for a crusade or proclaimed that we had to bomb people because God wanted us to do it.
I get it, you don't like Christians or religions but there is a huge difference between people who happen to be Christians making decisions and people deliberately choosing to commit certain actions in the name of God/Christ or because they literally believe that they are doing the will of God. You can read the declaration of war issued against Iraq by Congress in 2003 and it never states that God wants us to bomb people.
now now, we've already learned that:
"Religion does have a play in it. Whether or not the actual core teachings of the religion are "peaceful" or not, in many many places in the world, the religion that is being taught is NOT peaceful."
Shall we add in the genocide christians are committing in africa against muslims?
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/01/08/us-centralafrica-inquiry-idUSKBN0KH2BM20150108#Tc8huHBGmHzzLrA3.97 Bush was a man of god, who believed he was acting in the name of god. He believed god himself wanted him to run for president. And while he might have only said terrorist, the american people quickly picked up the idea that genocide against muslims is what he meant and what god wants. look at all the calls in this thread calling to nuke the middle east.
I love how you ignore the offenses caused by christians, and somehow conclude they don't believe they are doing gods will. And I notice you didn't denounce them, so it can only be because you support their actions.
Automatically Appended Next Post: thanks for the assist D-usa, thats some good stuff.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/19 02:03:51
d-usa wrote: Again, here are your Christian terrorists: The conflict, one of Africa's longest running, has resulted in a very severe humanitarian crisis. The LRA is accused of widespread human rights violations, including mutilation, torture, slavery, rape, the abduction of civilians, the use of child soldiers, and a number of massacres.[21] By 2004, the LRA had abducted more than 20,000 children, while 1.5 million civilians had been displaced and an estimated 100,000 civilians killed.
We already mentioned the Army of God active in the US.
There is Eastern Lightning, fundamentalist Christians in China known for violence against non-Christians.
We also have the National Liberation Front of Tripura, they want to establish a Christian country and kill Buddhist and won't tolerate any other religion.
Christian Militias in the Central African Republic destroyed mosques, massacred Muslim villages, engaged in cannibalism, and have driven almost 140,000 Muslims out of the country with their attacks. Just one of the stories:
The National Socialist Council of Nagaland in India also wants to establish a Christian country based on Baptist believes, they recently reformed after a long period of inactivity and they signed a peace deal, so we'll see how that goes.
Also already covered are the various Christian Identity groups, including the Aryan Nation, that are active all around the globe and in the US.
People who are violent will find an outlet, but that outlet didn't cause the violence to begin with.
Every religion can spawn extremists. I've never claimed otherwise. The Christian examples you list are indeed violent and extreme but they're also not connected. Army of God isn't a splinter group from Eastern Lightning which isn't connected to the Aryan Nation. Al Qaeda was founded in Wahabbism and spawned ISIS, ISIL, Abu Sayyaf, and Al Shabaab. Salafis spread their sect of violent fundamentalist Islam across countries and continents creating a network or terrorist organizations. Christianity is subject to the same inherrent issues and pitfalls of every organized religion but there isn't a specific sect of fundamentalist Christians that has created an international terrorist network.
Prestor Jon wrote: Christianity is subject to the same inherrent issues and pitfalls of every organized religion but there isn't a specific sect of fundamentalist Christians that has created an international terrorist network.
And I won't argue against the fact there are violent Muslims out there.
I'm just pushing back against the arguments that groups like ISIS and the people fighting for them are driven solely by Islam, or that all Muslims are terrorists because of Islam.
Please show me where Pres Bush and the US Congress declared war on Islam, called for a crusade or proclaimed that we had to bomb people because God wanted us to do it.
I get it, you don't like Christians or religions but there is a huge difference between people who happen to be Christians making decisions and people deliberately choosing to commit certain actions in the name of God/Christ or because they literally believe that they are doing the will of God. You can read the declaration of war issued against Iraq by Congress in 2003 and it never states that God wants us to bomb people.
now now, we've already learned that:
"Religion does have a play in it. Whether or not the actual core teachings of the religion are "peaceful" or not, in many many places in the world, the religion that is being taught is NOT peaceful."
Shall we add in the genocide christians are committing in africa against muslims?
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/01/08/us-centralafrica-inquiry-idUSKBN0KH2BM20150108#Tc8huHBGmHzzLrA3.97 Bush was a man of god, who believed he was acting in the name of god. He believed god himself wanted him to run for president. And while he might have only said terrorist, the american people quickly picked up the idea that genocide against muslims is what he meant and what god wants. look at all the calls in this thread calling to nuke the middle east.
I love how you ignore the offenses caused by christians, and somehow conclude they don't believe they are doing gods will. And I notice you didn't denounce them, so it can only be because you support their actions.
Automatically Appended Next Post: thanks for the assist D-usa, thats some good stuff.
Referring to the War on Terror as a crusade does not equate to declare g that the US military is bombing people in the name of God. Again, there is a difference between actions taken by people who happen to be Christian and actions committed specifically in the name of Christianity.
That YouTube clip is laughable. A passing reference to the War on Terror as a "crusade" ascribes the motivation of spreading Christianity and eradicating Islam to our Middle East involvement? Ha. We are actively supporting Muslim countries that are our allies like KSA, Jordan, Qatar, the UAE and Kuwait and help them fight Salafi terrorists. We spent billions of dollars and thousands of lives of our service men and women to support Muslim governments in Iraq and Afghanistan, built infrastructure, schools, hospitals all to benefit the Muslims who lived there. ISIS has already claimed more territory for themselves in the middle East than the US ever has. The US didn't force anyone to convert or forswear their religious beliefs nor did we murder anyone based solely on their religious beliefs. If we just finished a decade plus of crusading in the middle East it was the least effective crusade ever.
Prestor Jon wrote: Christianity is subject to the same inherrent issues and pitfalls of every organized religion but there isn't a specific sect of fundamentalist Christians that has created an international terrorist network.
And I won't argue against the fact there are violent Muslims out there.
I'm just pushing back against the arguments that groups like ISIS and the people fighting for them are driven solely by Islam, or that all Muslims are terrorists because of Islam.
Not all Muslims are terrorists, the vast majority aren't terrorists. My brothers and I grew up with Muslim friends in our hometown in NJ. The point I'm trying to make with you is that the terrorists connected to Al Qaeda are rooted in Wahabbism which is a fundamentalist sext of Islam that is inherently violent and confrontational. We can't ignore the common thread linking all the major terrorist groups, a particularly nasty sect of Islam that is anachronistic, oppressive and violent. The Muslims leading the terror attacks ascribe to the belief that their brand of hardcore Islam is the one true way and that a return to a medieval version of Islamic society rooted in extreme piety is a cause worth murdering for.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/19 02:39:36
Not all Muslims are terrorists, the vast majority aren't terrorists. My brothers and I grew up with Muslim friends in our hometown in NJ. The point I'm trying to make with you is that the terrorists connected to Al Qaeda are rooted in Wahabbism which is a fundamentalist sext of Islam that is inherently violent and confrontational. We can't ignore the common thread linking all the major terrorist groups, a particularly nasty sect of Islam that is anachronistic, oppressive and violent. The Muslims leading the terror attacks ascribe to the belief that their brand of hardcore Islam is the one true way and that a return to a medieval version of Islamic society rooted in extreme piety is a cause worth murdering for.
so all the "major terrorist groups" are muslims eh? christians committing genocide just don't make the cut?
It's quite telling you can't admit there are also christian terrorist, and that you won't condemn their actions.
LethalShade wrote: Two suicide bombings in Nigeria, the bombers were 11 and 18 years old.
Around 40 people dead and at least 100 people wounded.
Bet we don't see people putting Nigerian flags on FB to make them feel better about themselves..................
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
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Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
LethalShade wrote: Two suicide bombings in Nigeria, the bombers were 11 and 18 years old.
Around 40 people dead and at least 100 people wounded.
Bet we don't see people putting Nigerian flags on FB to make them feel better about themselves..................
They're used to atrocities happening there, or they just don't care. (Nobody talked about the 150 kids murdered by a commando in an Afghan school last year)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/19 09:50:20
Kilkrazy wrote: Why judge people by some arguable idea of what their religion supposedly tells them to do when you can judge them by their actions?
Because unfortunately the world isn't simple like that. Religion does have a play in it. Whether or not the actual core teachings of the religion are "peaceful" or not, in many many places in the world, the religion that is being taught is NOT peaceful.
Can we apply this logic to christians as well? Obviously due to the every growing number of christians killing their kids, committing mass shootings, and blowing up buildings, it must be because the religion that is being taught is NOT peaceful. Right?
No christianity is very, very peaceful.
Spoiler:
As you can see, christians never use their religion to glorify and promote weapons and violence, and certainly not to children. Christianity is the religion of peace.
Spoiler:
Every religion and ideology can and has been used as a tool and excuse for war and violence. Islam is not any different from other religions in that regard.
Looks like this picture signify the return of the Tsarist Russian Empire. the Orthodox supremacy.
Not all Muslims are terrorists, the vast majority aren't terrorists. My brothers and I grew up with Muslim friends in our hometown in NJ. The point I'm trying to make with you is that the terrorists connected to Al Qaeda are rooted in Wahabbism which is a fundamentalist sext of Islam that is inherently violent and confrontational. We can't ignore the common thread linking all the major terrorist groups, a particularly nasty sect of Islam that is anachronistic, oppressive and violent. The Muslims leading the terror attacks ascribe to the belief that their brand of hardcore Islam is the one true way and that a return to a medieval version of Islamic society rooted in extreme piety is a cause worth murdering for.
so all the "major terrorist groups" are muslims eh? christians committing genocide just don't make the cut?
It's quite telling you can't admit there are also christian terrorist, and that you won't condemn their actions.
Every religion can spawn extremists. I've never claimed otherwise. The Christian examples you list are indeed violent and extreme but they're also not connected. Army of God isn't a splinter group from Eastern Lightning which isn't connected to the Aryan Nation. Al Qaeda was founded in Wahabbism and spawned ISIS, ISIL, Abu Sayyaf, and Al Shabaab. Salafis spread their sect of violent fundamentalist Islam across countries and continents creating a network or terrorist organizations. Christianity is subject to the same inherrent issues and pitfalls of every organized religion but there isn't a specific sect of fundamentalist Christians that has created an international terrorist network.
It's telling that you feel like I need to craft a specific statement of condemnation to appease your antagonism.
It's also disappointing that you believe that the only reason I would refer to the Wahabbi terrorist organizations as "major" is because they're Muslim. The reason terrorist organizations like Al Qaeda, ISIS, ISIL, Abu Sayyaf, Al Shabaab, etc. as "major" is because they carry out attacks against high profile targets that have a significant impact on the foreign and domestic policy of first world super powers. The US isn't spending billions of dollars on additional airport security and grounding flights because the National Liberation Front of Tripura is committing atrocities. Likewise, the US, EU (particularly France) and Russia aren't all conducting active military campaigns against Eastern Lightning. The US didn't pass the Patriot Act because of the actions of groups like the Aryan Nation. How many people in the US, EU and Russia know who the National Socialist Council of Nagaland is? How many of them know about ISIS?
The Al Qaeda groups are the ones conducting major attacks and affecting major global powers in tangible, negative ways which makes them the more notorious and dangerous groups. I would have thought that would be self evident but feel free to still accuse me of being some sort of conspiratorial Christian terrorist sympathizer.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/19 14:34:44
Not all Muslims are terrorists, the vast majority aren't terrorists. My brothers and I grew up with Muslim friends in our hometown in NJ. The point I'm trying to make with you is that the terrorists connected to Al Qaeda are rooted in Wahabbism which is a fundamentalist sext of Islam that is inherently violent and confrontational. We can't ignore the common thread linking all the major terrorist groups, a particularly nasty sect of Islam that is anachronistic, oppressive and violent. The Muslims leading the terror attacks ascribe to the belief that their brand of hardcore Islam is the one true way and that a return to a medieval version of Islamic society rooted in extreme piety is a cause worth murdering for.
Oh dear, is that the infamous "I am not bigoted, I have friends who are x, but..." argument I see there?
Sure, you can argue that salafism and wahabism are inherently violent, because they are. But that is where that argument stops. Islam is a huge religion with many, many different subgroups. Salafism and wahabism are just two subgroups of islam. Christianity and buddhism have had violent subgroups too. You can't say an apple tree is bad because two of its many apples are rotten.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/19 14:39:35
LethalShade wrote: Two suicide bombings in Nigeria, the bombers were 11 and 18 years old.
Around 40 people dead and at least 100 people wounded.
Bet we don't see people putting Nigerian flags on FB to make them feel better about themselves..................
I take it you aren't too fond of strangers expressing their sympathy for France by adding a filter to their profile picture?
Not really - I just found it self indulgent but maybe that's just me.
If there had been a FB campaign to raise money for the dead peoples relatives or something - that would have been laudable - but slapping a pic on face book and somehow thinking that it actually achieves something so you can feel good about it.........nope. Maybe there is a campaign but I did not see it - waiting now for the Southpark episode that mocks the FB sympathy post.
In the same way as I find people get majorly upset about the deaths of celebs baffling - I know when my loved ones died if loads of people I (and they) had never met had been sobbing and screaming and sending wreaths and someone making it about them I would have been extremely upset.
Just my view though.......
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
Kilkrazy wrote: Why judge people by some arguable idea of what their religion supposedly tells them to do when you can judge them by their actions?
Because unfortunately the world isn't simple like that. Religion does have a play in it. Whether or not the actual core teachings of the religion are "peaceful" or not, in many many places in the world, the religion that is being taught is NOT peaceful.
Can we apply this logic to christians as well? Obviously due to the every growing number of christians killing their kids, committing mass shootings, and blowing up buildings, it must be because the religion that is being taught is NOT peaceful. Right?
No christianity is very, very peaceful.
Spoiler:
As you can see, christians never use their religion to glorify and promote weapons and violence, and certainly not to children. Christianity is the religion of peace.
Spoiler:
Every religion and ideology can and has been used as a tool and excuse for war and violence. Islam is not any different from other religions in that regard.
Looks like this picture signify the return of the Tsarist Russian Empire. the Orthodox supremacy.
Thats from the kingdom of heaven. Where the christians wanted war, (so did the muslims) but the christians just wanted bloodshed, so they would say "GOD WILLS IT!"
Its pretty sad, but that is the sad reality people will use religion to justify their actions.
Heres a video that is extremely useful for those who wanted to be a bit more educated!
ISIS itself are made up of the most extreme people in their country. So It was no wonder that they would try to attack people.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/19 16:23:05
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
Not all Muslims are terrorists, the vast majority aren't terrorists. My brothers and I grew up with Muslim friends in our hometown in NJ. The point I'm trying to make with you is that the terrorists connected to Al Qaeda are rooted in Wahabbism which is a fundamentalist sext of Islam that is inherently violent and confrontational. We can't ignore the common thread linking all the major terrorist groups, a particularly nasty sect of Islam that is anachronistic, oppressive and violent. The Muslims leading the terror attacks ascribe to the belief that their brand of hardcore Islam is the one true way and that a return to a medieval version of Islamic society rooted in extreme piety is a cause worth murdering for.
Oh dear, is that the infamous "I am not bigoted, I have friends who are x, but..." argument I see there?
Sure, you can argue that salafism and wahabism are inherently violent, because they are. But that is where that argument stops. Islam is a huge religion with many, many different subgroups. Salafism and wahabism are just two subgroups of islam. Christianity and buddhism have had violent subgroups too. You can't say an apple tree is bad because two of its many apples are rotten.
Oh dear it's another example of some one using contextual information to create a straw man? I have Muslim friends, I have lived in Muslim countries, I have never, in any post here at Dakka or anywhere else made any statement that could remotely be construed as claiming that Islam in it's entirety is bad or violent. I have consistently qualified my statements and opinions regarding Islamic terrorism to denote that it is led by Wahabbism/Salafis which is a specific minority sect of Islam. I have made no statements that you could interpret to mean that the exist of Wahabbism taints all of Islam, that is a complete fabrication on your part.
The point that I have been making, that seems to be far more elusive than it should be for some to grasp, is that Salafi terrorist groups, namely Al Qaeda and their offshoots are primarily motivated by religion. It is a specific minor subset of Islam. Osama Bin Laden specifically stated that Al Qaeda was attacking the Saudi family and the USA because the US was contaminating the House of Saud in ways that violated the tenets of Wahabbism to which the Saudis should be adhering. After every terror attack they commit the Salafis issue statements in print media, videos, online, etc. that proudly profess their fundamentalist zealotry and how it motivates them to commit the attacks. Failure to recognize that connection and motivation in the Salafi terrorist groups inhibits our ability to combat their violence and contain their dangerous ideology.
LethalShade wrote: Two suicide bombings in Nigeria, the bombers were 11 and 18 years old.
Around 40 people dead and at least 100 people wounded.
Bet we don't see people putting Nigerian flags on FB to make them feel better about themselves..................
I take it you aren't too fond of strangers expressing their sympathy for France by adding a filter to their profile picture?
Not really - I just found it self indulgent but maybe that's just me.
If there had been a FB campaign to raise money for the dead peoples relatives or something - that would have been laudable - but slapping a pic on face book and somehow thinking that it actually achieves something so you can feel good about it.........nope. Maybe there is a campaign but I did not see it - waiting now for the Southpark episode that mocks the FB sympathy post.
In the same way as I find people get majorly upset about the deaths of celebs baffling - I know when my loved ones died if loads of people I (and they) had never met had been sobbing and screaming and sending wreaths and someone making it about them I would have been extremely upset.
Just my view though.......
The empathetic reactions on FB that are limited to token gestures like flag imagery aren't done because they'll have any tangible impact on the problem, they're done to make the people doing it feel good about themselves and feed the narcissism inherent to social media. Same as twitter hashtags, etc. It's not a bad gesture and it's well intentioned but it doesn't actually do anything to help the situation. It also gives a certain type of people another thing to shame people over on social media if they don't jump on the bandwagon. Personally I don't have any issue with people doing whatever they want with social media, but they should have the integrity to not misconstrue token gestures as being akin to taking actions that actually tangibly benefit victims or help resolve conflicts.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/19 17:22:06
Okay, great article on Cracked today. Robert Evans, the guy they usually get to do interviews went and read every single issue of ISIS's propaganda newsletter. He learned some very interesting things, and I think everyone here should check out the article, because in one way or another, every single person in this thread is wrong about some aspect of ISIS. We all think we understand them, but we don't. We may understand part of them, but we don't get the whole picture (and none of our leaders do either). This article goes a long way to informing us of the reality of ISIS.
Emperor's Eagles (undergoing Chapter reorganization)
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Emperor's Eagles (undergoing Chapter reorganization)
Caledonian 95th (undergoing regimental reorganization)
Thousands Sons (undergoing Warband re--- wait, are any of my 40K armies playable?)