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We've been selling, or outright giving, bio-chem weapons to various parties in the ME for forty years. Why would our largest ally in the region be any different?
Which isn't proof they actually did.
Saudi Arabia executed a little over 100 people last I heard, whereas ISIS has executed numbers that I can only call 'substantially' more than that.
Note that the largest report of ISIL beheadings (December 2014) is an unconfirmed report of them beheading their own soldiers for charges of desertion.
Again, less than 200 executions in a year, ALL a result of a criminal trial and conviction, as opposed to documented cases of over 600 in a day and those were captured soldiers. The method is what you seem to have your mind wrapped around, because it helps make your silly little point. You can be against the death penalty, and agains the method the Saudis use to carry it out, you are REALLY looking silly when you compare it to the thousands of extra judicial executions DaIsh carries out a year.
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
BaronIveagh wrote: I think that Russia and Turkey going at it, even if it doesn't become a full on shooting war will effect the campaign against ISIS, people. Any thoughts?
Feth Turkey.
Yeah, I prefer chicken too.
Agreed, Ham is better. However Turkey is part of NATO. We should be reminded, the vast majority of Soviet, er Russian ordnance is not being dropped on ISIL.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
BaronIveagh wrote: I think that Russia and Turkey going at it, even if it doesn't become a full on shooting war will effect the campaign against ISIS, people. Any thoughts?
Feth Turkey.
Yeah, I prefer chicken too.
Agreed, Ham is better. However Turkey is part of NATO. We should be reminded, the vast majority of Soviet, er Russian ordnance is not being dropped on ISIL.
I seriously wonder how Turkey made it into NATO
H.B.M.C.- The end hath come! From now on armies will only consist of Astorath, Land Speeder Storms and Soul Grinders!
War Kitten- Vanden, you just taunted the Dank Lord Ezra. Prepare for seven years of fighting reality...
koooaei- Emperor: I envy your nipplehorns. <Magnus goes red. Permanently>
Neronoxx- If our Dreadnought doesn't have sick scuplted abs, we riot.
Frazzled- I don't generally call anyone by a term other than "sir" "maam" "youn g lady" "young man" or " HEY bag!"
Ruin- It's official, we've ran out of things to talk about on Dakka. Close the site. We're done.
mrhappyface- "They're more what you'd call guidlines than actual rules" - Captain Roboute Barbosa
Steve steveson- To be clear, I'd sell you all out for a bottle of scotch and a mid priced hooker.
BaronIveagh wrote: I think that Russia and Turkey going at it, even if it doesn't become a full on shooting war will effect the campaign against ISIS, people. Any thoughts?
Feth Turkey.
Yeah, I prefer chicken too.
Agreed, Ham is better. However Turkey is part of NATO. We should be reminded, the vast majority of Soviet, er Russian ordnance is not being dropped on ISIL.
I seriously wonder how Turkey made it into NATO
Something about an "iron curtain descending across Europe" or something. I blame a fat guy who liked whiskey and really big cigars.
"We will fight them on the beaches. We will fight them in pubs. We will fight them in the massage parlors. We will fight them while eating fish and chips. We will fight them while making a nice curry sauce..."
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/25 15:28:31
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
BaronIveagh wrote: I think that Russia and Turkey going at it, even if it doesn't become a full on shooting war will effect the campaign against ISIS, people. Any thoughts?
Feth Turkey.
Yeah, I prefer chicken too.
Agreed, Ham is better. However Turkey is part of NATO. We should be reminded, the vast majority of Soviet, er Russian ordnance is not being dropped on ISIL.
I seriously wonder how Turkey made it into NATO
I think it's mostly to do with Turkey's geostrategic position on the map and the long rivalry it has had with Russia over the years, both of those make it a pretty desirable ally. The American nukes positioned there during the cold war was a major sticking point for the Soviets during the whole Cuban Missile Crisis, and Turkey offers a convenient staging ground for any NATO operations in the Middle East. I could be totally wrong of course, but those reasons sound like good ones for bringing them into NATO.
Turkey straddles the exit from the Black Sea into the Mediterranean.
Before the collapse of the Soviet Union, it offered the possibility of a southern pincer around Soviet satellite states in the Balkans and eastern Europe.
Turkey got into NATO because military alliances are matters of convenience, not matters of "I like you and think you're awesome."
You can see that even now in the war with ISIS, where Islamist groups are getting open backing to fight ISIS by Middle Eastern States who don't want to support the Kurds, and how the Kurds are getting support from Western States who don't want to support Islamists.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/25 22:10:12
Dreadclaw69 wrote: Reports are starting to surface that at least one of the Austrian poster girls who left home to join ISIS was beaten to death for trying to leave.
Yeah, and her friend was supposedly KIA earlier in the year. Tragic, all around, but not especially surprising.
Kids, don't join radical organizations, it's not going to end well.
It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised.
Kilkrazy wrote: If you join ISIL and try to leave you are an apostate which is punishable by death.
Like the countries they came from would welcome them back?
Joining this group is a one way ticket, or should be.
Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.
To be honest, I could see some value in allowing some back and using them to tell potentials exactly how "fun" it is to be with ISIS.
Yes, these people would be watched.
Prestor Jon wrote: Because children don't have any legal rights until they're adults. A minor is the responsiblity of the parent and has no legal rights except through his/her legal guardian or parent.
Grey Templar wrote: Are there actually millions of people inside ISIS's borders? I believe there isn't even close to that many.
Maybe you should rethink what you believe and educate yourself so that you know.
Although official numbers are difficult to come by, most estimates say that there are at least 8 to 10 million people living in their territory.
At some point, you have to say ''enough!" and actually do something. Not be some bleeding heart on the fence just saying ''stop that! Stop that is say!" Without actually doing anything.
Yeah, doing something is good. The wholesale genocide of 10 million people just because they live where the bad guys are is not one of those things.
Is it a gakky solution? Hell yeah. But if its the only solution you really don't have much choice.
I'll give you one guess as to who else had a solution that entailed the elimination of millions of people.
I mean, do you even read the gak you write?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/11/26 23:33:24
d-usa wrote: "When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
Is Glorious one of those words that non-American English speakers/writers spell with an 'ou'? I don't think it is.
Bastards aren't just brainwashing, they're teaching bad spelling!
EDIT: Also curious, why is Tariq Bin Ziyad's name on the cover of a book about teaching English? Unless it's not about teaching Enlgish? Are there no pictures or information of the books contents? Feeling kind of guilty for having a perverse curiosity about what they're teaching in an English course than mentions Tariq Bin Ziyad... Found some more here. This one is particularly interesting;
Gee, I wonder what they won't be having a lot of in ISIS anytime soon XD
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2015/11/27 10:22:51
Kilkrazy wrote: However, there is the cost of buying replacement tankers, if ISIL can find someone to deliver to them! Alibaba is listing Chinese built tanker lorries at a rough average of $50,000 each, so if it's true that the Russians have already blown up 500 of them, that's $25 M that ISIL have to try and find in foreign exchange, then there's lead time on deliveries, and so on.
That is pricey. Did not know that about oil prices. I always thought that when the news said $X a barrel, it was just straight up $X a barrel.
I think the key thing is that ISIL aren't really concerned with managing a modern supply and demand technical economy. They are basically just a bunch of pirates, they even want to run everything on gold coins! From this viewpoint they may not care that they keep losing tankers, they think they will just steal more or that they will be supplied by Allah. Until their system falls apart..
Agree. However, because I still have the idea rolling in my head, I kind of want to roll with it to see where it goes. Call it Devil's Advocating. What if we're all underestimating ISIS? I brought it up earlier in this thread as well that I think some people overemphasize the Doomsday Cult aspects of ISIS' theology, and here too, I wonder if we've also overplayed the idea that they can't fund themselves. When all this started two years ago, people were saying ISIS would never be able to make money. Then they started making money off oil. Then we learned they were making a lot of money off oil. Their propaganda and media machine is amazingly modern and tech savvy, and the text books linked in thread earlier if real show both a strong familiarity with Western education systems and methods. It suggests to me that ISIS is not a doomsday cult that expects the end of the world to happen any moment. There'd be no point to such a sophisticated education apparatus if all of ISIS believed that.
if that's so, then it could mean ISIS is more forward looking that we might have initially believed. The oil smuggling network,and ad hoc military alliances with Al-Nusra, Syria, the Kurds, and Turkey suggests they're not completely above making compromises.
It's not to say that ISIS is secretly super smart and has a plan all along. No one is infallable, especially not religious fanatics, but this all is starting to feel a lot like other events in the past century in the middle east. The Ba'athist uprising in Syria, the Lebonese Civil War, and the Iranian Revolution. In all those conflicts there were many who dismissed the insurgent/rebel groups to some degree, yet in all those conflicts they survived and became states. The war with ISIS has shifted while the Western World has debated what to do and is no longer a clear cut case of ISIS and Everyone Else who wants them gone. Too many ME states and popping up with their hands in the cookie jar.
Thinking out loud here
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/27 22:58:10
As the only person here with who's been calling it pretty much all along, I might point out that thus far they've done a fair job of making all these airstrikes on oil production pointless. My hats off to their petroleum infrastructure guys, because the US has been blowing big holes in it, and it's back up and running again within a day or two of having six shades of hell blown out of it.
I have to wonder as well if Turkey is going to ease off on ISILs petrochemical smuggling with this new pissing contest with Putin. About half to two thirds of Turkey's natural gas, for example, is Russian. There's going to be an awful big temptation for Turkey if Gazprom turns off the gas.
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
LordofHats wrote: Is Glorious one of those words that non-American English speakers/writers spell with an 'ou'? I don't think it is.
No, even the Americans spell that word correctly.
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
I have to wonder as well if Turkey is going to ease off on ISILs petrochemical smuggling with this new pissing contest with Putin. About half to two thirds of Turkey's natural gas, for example, is Russian. There's going to be an awful big temptation for Turkey if Gazprom turns off the gas.
This also occurred to me.. Right now, groups fight ISIS when it's convenient, and look the other way when it isn't. .I think the big fear is that isolating Turkey will drive them into being direct ISIS allies.
The conflict has put Turkey in a very awkward position between the arming of the Kurds, and Russia's open support of Assad's government. At the same time that Russia and France are assuring the world that they'll step up bombing of oil smugglers, the EU is opening chapter 17 for Turkey's EU admission. There's a very tight rope being balanced here I think, both to maintain the united front against ISIS, and maybe because there is a possibility Turkey could switch sides straight up if we take too hard a stance against them.
LordofHats wrote: The conflict has put Turkey in a very awkward position
Russia as well. Turkey is it's second largest trade partner, and a lot of the food that's been keeping the recent shortages from becoming full on famine in parts of Russia have been Turkish exports.
This is going ot be bad for all sides, both at home and abroad.
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
LordofHats wrote: The conflict has put Turkey in a very awkward position
Russia as well. Turkey is it's second largest trade partner, and a lot of the food that's been keeping the recent shortages from becoming full on famine in parts of Russia have been Turkish exports.
This is going ot be bad for all sides, both at home and abroad.
It is almost entirely fruit. Russia produces enough of most other kinds of food itself (everything except meat and fruit), and apart from prices rising somewhat, there hasn't been anything close to a famine or shortage. Some kinds of food may be harder to find or much more expensive, but the idea of a famine is simply ridiculous. Fruit grows in lots of places, if Turkish fruit won't do, Russia will get it elsewhere. Like Belarus. I hear Belarusian food production has suddenly and mysteriously skyrocketed after the Russian sanctions against the EU. They now produce lots of stuff besides potatoes. It is really awesome how Belarus produces so much sea food despite having no sea
It is almost entirely fruit. Russia produces enough of most other kinds of food itself (everything except meat and fruit), and apart from prices rising somewhat, there hasn't been anything close to a famine or shortage. Some kinds of food may be harder to find or much more expensive, but the idea of a famine is simply ridiculous. Fruit grows in lots of places, if Turkish fruit won't do, Russia will get it elsewhere. Like Belarus. I hear Belarusian food production has suddenly and mysteriously skyrocketed after the Russian sanctions against the EU. They now produce lots of stuff besides potatoes. It is really awesome how Belarus produces so much sea food despite having no sea
Grain has actually also been in short supply in some regions.
That, and I'd not depend too hard on Belarus' 'Fishing Fleet' Moscow recently elevated the crime of food smuggling via fraudulent documents (the standard means that Belarus smugglers have been using) to be on par with smuggling thermonuclear weapons and large quantities of high explosives. It has a minimum sentence of 7 years, and a max of whatever they decide to impose.
And even non smuggled foods have risen almost 20% on the Russian market this year.
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
bag!"
Mordant 92nd 'Acid Dogs'
The Lost and Damned
Inquisition
