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Frazzled wrote: So how can ISIL justify bombings in Medina? Thats like Christians bombing Jerusalem no?
Islam has many sects, they at worst regard the opposing sects as just as bad as the "infidels" or worse as heretics
its a inter religous war .
Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.
Easy E wrote: Okay, so we have identified that poverty is not a driver, but what is the driver? What psychological need are they truing to fill? is it simply a need to feel like part of a dedicated group?
While just 2.4 percent of people expressed some sympathy for violence overall, researchers found that those under the age 20, those in full-time education rather than employment, and those with annual incomes above $125,000 were more prone to express sympathy for violent protests and "terrorism."
Plenty of research out there. Not all good, not all bad, most have some commonality in findings. I have not seen much that pushes 'poverty' as a major cause recently.
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
Frazzled wrote: So how can ISIL justify bombings in Medina? Thats like Christians bombing Jerusalem no?
Islam has many sects, they at worst regard the opposing sects as just as bad as the "infidels" or worse as heretics
its a inter religous war .
Yes but sects are derivations. My understanding was that the Dome, Medina, and Meccas were essential to all and sacred to all. You get in the weeds with Sunni vs. Shia sacred places and mosques.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Frazzled wrote: So how can ISIL justify bombings in Medina? Thats like Christians bombing Jerusalem no?
Islam has many sects, they at worst regard the opposing sects as just as bad as the "infidels" or worse as heretics
its a inter religous war .
Yes but sects are derivations. My understanding was that the Dome, Medina, and Meccas were essential to all and sacred to all. You get in the weeds with Sunni vs. Shia sacred places and mosques.
It is holy, and that is why it needs bombing perhaps more than any other place in the eyes of ISIS. The filth of the unbelievers must be cleansed from the holy places and stuff like that.
Frazzled wrote: So how can ISIL justify bombings in Medina? Thats like Christians bombing Jerusalem no?
Islam has many sects, they at worst regard the opposing sects as just as bad as the "infidels" or worse as heretics
its a inter religous war .
Yes but sects are derivations. My understanding was that the Dome, Medina, and Meccas were essential to all and sacred to all. You get in the weeds with Sunni vs. Shia sacred places and mosques.
It is holy, and that is why it needs bombing perhaps more than any other place in the eyes of ISIS. The filth of the unbelievers must be cleansed from the holy places and stuff like that.
its also power?
if you hold Medina, Mecca, you hold the source of islam and the semi authority that gives you. the same if you undemrine someone else control over it.
its a physiologically valuable place.
Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.
It just strikes me that if you attack those locations you would immediately lose support from the believers, and generally unite them against you.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Frazzled wrote: It just strikes me that if you attack those locations you would immediately lose support from the believers, and generally unite them against you.
It really all depends on what 'believers' you are trying to get/maintain support from. If you are selling the fact that many Muslims not supporting your cause, including some of the House of Saud types, are in fact apostates because they don't believe the way you think they should, such an attack shows your willingness to hit the big wigs and call them out for their lack of True Faith. Your idea of 'unite' believers does match the DaIsh (and similar factions) belief that to unite is to force submission to. It is pretty clear, you either join straight up, submit and pay the tax, or you are treated as an enemy. Showing strength against and willingness to strike the enemy no matter where often helps sway those prone to violence to join your cause and intimidates those not looking for trouble into submitting.
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
I just don't get it. ISIL is attacking their own holy site.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Easy E wrote: Okay, so we have identified that poverty is not a driver, but what is the driver? What psychological need are they truing to fill? is it simply a need to feel like part of a dedicated group?
Part of me thinks a lot of it the Western world things is jerk kids rebelling against their parents too. The whole "dedicated group" part of it plays into it too.
Some kids rebel by joining a Heavy Metal band, some kids do it by taking up an interest in 'nerdy things' in a family of sports mad people (or worse, support a different team!), some kids do it the other way around. Some kids in traditional religious families may abandon religion all together.
And then, some kids, a really, really small proportion of them, are just such gigantic, total jerkfaces, are maybe 2nd-ish generation immigrants, have parents who maybe grew up in the West but were born elsewhere, their parents have achieved a balanced mix of traditional and Western values, then the kids rebel, not just by going traditional, but by going WAYYYYYY past traditional into crazytown and run off to Syria.
Frazzled wrote: I just don't get it. ISIL is attacking their own holy site.
No, they are attacking the apostates at the site, and showing the House of Saud to be too weak to defend the site..
Thats more helpful.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
CptJake wrote: You may, in Iraq, Syria or other war zones find guys willing to bury an IED for $$$ but they are not really radicalized.
In all fairness, you can find those in American cities as well. There's a reason that an old slang term for a car bomb is a 'Youngstown Tune Up'. Interestingly enough, ISIS seems to appeal to the same demographics that Organized Crime used to appeal to.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/07 20:51:05
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They way more in a VBIED then the Mafia ever did. Insurgents took that to a new level.
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djones520 wrote: That begs the question though, how do we explain westerners? By and large, they don't have that excuse.
Just based on the anecdotal evidence of those who have been in the news, it would seem that social belonging can play a somewhat significant role in radicalization. I could be talking out my arse here, but it seems that so many of the American born radicalized individuals (be they Muslim, white, black or anything else) come from a socially awkward/ostracized portion of the population. The acceptance of A group can be a huge mental boost to those types of people.
Jihadin wrote: They way more in a VBIED then the Mafia ever did. Insurgents took that to a new level.
I can't say I'd heard that the ISIS had drive by remote car bombs. IRA and the Mob both pulled that one off at various points. IRA ones could even have mortars in the boot.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/09 17:35:04
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
A car bomb, or truck bomb, also known as a vehicle-borne improvised explosive device (VBIED), is an improvised explosive device placed inside a car or other vehicle and detonated.
Example
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
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RIP Muhammad Ali.
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Ah, you were talking yield, not the next level in technological sophistication. I was half wondering if ISIS had come up with a device that drives, shoots, coordinates artillery, and then blows up. But I suppose they have expendable troops for that.
How big was it? Looked like about 1500 pounds to a ton based on the truck.
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
Easy E wrote: Okay, so we have identified that poverty is not a driver, but what is the driver? What psychological need are they truing to fill? is it simply a need to feel like part of a dedicated group?
While just 2.4 percent of people expressed some sympathy for violence overall, researchers found that those under the age 20, those in full-time education rather than employment, and those with annual incomes above $125,000 were more prone to express sympathy for violent protests and "terrorism."
Plenty of research out there. Not all good, not all bad, most have some commonality in findings. I have not seen much that pushes 'poverty' as a major cause recently.
Interesting read. It is true that many people my age (at least people I know) have a growing acceptance of the idea of committing violent acts. I guess only personal differences and ideologies matter beside this acceptance of violence.
What I don't understand though is people converting to a religion and taking a really extreme interpretation of it in mere months (seen a lot in France). I'm not religious, so if someone can shine a light on this process for me, I'd be grateful.
It's probably that whole belonging to a group thing, feeling like you've finally got the opportunity to do 'something' with your life, even if it means ending it.
I really do think that people have these sorts of feelings every day. Many are better people are use it, to, for example, become a Scout Leader or the like. Some are less good people and join 'bad' groups, whether it's criminal or terrorist organisations.
Compel wrote: It's probably that whole belonging to a group thing, feeling like you've finally got the opportunity to do 'something' with your life, even if it means ending it.
I really do think that people have these sorts of feelings every day. Many are better people are use it, to, for example, become a Scout Leader or the like. Some are less good people and join 'bad' groups, whether it's criminal or terrorist organisations.
It goes deeper than good or bad. a hand of friendship and a sense of belonging can make anyone enter into some suspect groupings. It's all too common.
Compel wrote: It's probably that whole belonging to a group thing, feeling like you've finally got the opportunity to do 'something' with your life, even if it means ending it.
I really do think that people have these sorts of feelings every day. Many are better people are use it, to, for example, become a Scout Leader or the like. Some are less good people and join 'bad' groups, whether it's criminal or terrorist organisations.
It goes deeper than good or bad. a hand of friendship and a sense of belonging can make anyone enter into some suspect groupings. It's all too common.
Honestly, I belong to that young demographic showing sympathy towards violence. But this is something I won't lie to myself about. I think the best way not to be manipulated into joining such a group is showing some self-awareness.
I don't mind some chaos here and there, but I want to lead a normal life among civilized people, and I absolutely despise those doing the violence. This is not something I want to be part of.
(Unfortunately logging onto facebook shows me how rare self-awareness tend to be...)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/10 12:18:19
I bet you are going to ask me: How did I know they were al-Qaida documents? In the very first place that I went into, I picked up one of them and went, “This is in Arabic. I can’t read it.” And I dropped it back down. [Laughs.] It took me getting back to my hotel to realize, Oh my God this is Mali. Mali is a French-speaking place. People that went to school here learn French. They don’t learn Arabic. By definition, anything that’s been written in Arabic is from this invading force. I then rushed back to these places with trash bags. I began going building-by-building and just picking up every single thing that I could find and bringing them back to my hotel.
The documents were incredible. They had letters from commanders, communications between leaders where they were reprimanding section commanders for failing to turn in their expenses because they were keeping expense reports every month showing their accounting structures. Most interesting to me, I saw evidence of internal debates they were having. We assume that they are monolithic in what they think, and in fact they’re not. Is it OK to kill civilians? Is it OK to kill children? The destruction of the mausoleums in Timbuktu: Was that a good thing for us to do?
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Easy E wrote: I saw evidence of internal debates they were having. We assume that they are monolithic in what they think, and in fact they’re not. Is it OK to kill civilians? Is it OK to kill children? The destruction of the mausoleums in Timbuktu: Was that a good thing for us to do?
Look at that. Terrorists have internet debates just like regular people!
Easy E wrote: I saw evidence of internal debates they were having. We assume that they are monolithic in what they think, and in fact they’re not. Is it OK to kill civilians? Is it OK to kill children? The destruction of the mausoleums in Timbuktu: Was that a good thing for us to do?
Look at that. Terrorists have internet debates just like regular people!
Too bad they are not regular people.
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Easy E wrote: I saw evidence of internal debates they were having. We assume that they are monolithic in what they think, and in fact they’re not. Is it OK to kill civilians? Is it OK to kill children? The destruction of the mausoleums in Timbuktu: Was that a good thing for us to do?
Look at that. Terrorists have internet debates just like regular people!
Too bad they are not regular people.
Except they totally are. What makes you think they aren't?
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
Easy E wrote: I saw evidence of internal debates they were having. We assume that they are monolithic in what they think, and in fact they’re not. Is it OK to kill civilians? Is it OK to kill children? The destruction of the mausoleums in Timbuktu: Was that a good thing for us to do?
Look at that. Terrorists have internet debates just like regular people!
Too bad they are not regular people.
Except they totally are. What makes you think they aren't?
Well, we're past the point in history where it is acceptable to saw off a captive's head or put a prisoner in a cage and set him on fire. Blowing up historical sites because they were representative of a religion other than your own is also not considered 'good' anymore. Forcing low intelligence kids to strap on bombs and then remotely detonating them in market places is also discouraged. Chucking folks off the roof of buildings for having a sex life you don't approve of is also considered bad.
Regular folks don't do these things at this point.
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
Easy E wrote: I saw evidence of internal debates they were having. We assume that they are monolithic in what they think, and in fact they’re not. Is it OK to kill civilians? Is it OK to kill children? The destruction of the mausoleums in Timbuktu: Was that a good thing for us to do?
Look at that. Terrorists have internet debates just like regular people!
Too bad they are not regular people.
Except they totally are. What makes you think they aren't?
Well, we're past the point in history where it is acceptable to saw off a captive's head or put a prisoner in a cage and set him on fire. Blowing up historical sites because they were representative of a religion other than your own is also not considered 'good' anymore. Forcing low intelligence kids to strap on bombs and then remotely detonating them in market places is also discouraged. Chucking folks off the roof of buildings for having a sex life you don't approve of is also considered bad.
Regular folks don't do these things at this point.
Where we're from, sure, that's true.
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
CptJake wrote: Well, we're past the point in history where it is acceptable to saw off a captive's head or put a prisoner in a cage and set him on fire. Blowing up historical sites because they were representative of a religion other than your own is also not considered 'good' anymore. Forcing low intelligence kids to strap on bombs and then remotely detonating them in market places is also discouraged. Chucking folks off the roof of buildings for having a sex life you don't approve of is also considered bad.
Regular folks don't do these things at this point.
Reminds me of general reactions towards Nazism; The Nazi's were people. Terrorists are people. ISIS is filled with people too. That's why it's so scary. We don't like thinking that people are capable of that kind of violence. Distorting it by lumping them down to simple psychos, or disturbed individuals blinds us to the reality that somewhere along the line, a perfectly normal person stopped being normal and started strapping bombs to kid's chests and sawing peoples heads off.
Of course I was just commenting that terrorists apparently spend their time doing the all the stuff we do on Dakka OT. Are there terrorist versions of us out there having similar hodum conversations mixed in with all the suicide bombing and mass murder plots? It's just kind of a surreal thing to think about.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/13 01:22:00
