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Freakazoitt wrote: I'm sorry about what happened. I hope you will understand that the terrorists - it is always the terrorists, not "moderates" or "freedom fighters."
The three are one in the same. It just depends on what side they're on relative to you. When they're the enemy, they're terrorists. When they're allies, they're 'freedom fighters'.
Remember that the French resistance to the Nazis were, by any definition, 'terrorists'. They just happened to be terrorists aligned against the enemies of the US and Russia, and afterwards anyone they killed became 'sympathizers'. Even when it wasn't true.
However, it should be said that ISIS is everyone's enemy by nature. hostis humani generis
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/13 21:17:51
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
Terrorists do direct attacks on the civilian population and on certain important people, whose death will break morale.
When the bomb exploded during the parade - it is terrorism.
When exploding the military vehicle - yes, it is also less terrorism but ... well, you understand
Basayev captures hospital or theater - is terrorism.
Militiamen protect Grozny - it's just a resistance.
Mordant 92nd 'Acid Dogs'
The Lost and Damned
Inquisition
Freakazoitt wrote: Terrorists do direct attacks on the civilian population and on certain important people, whose death will break morale.
When the bomb exploded during the parade - it is terrorism.
When exploding the military vehicle - yes, it is also less terrorism but ... well, you understand
Basayev captures hospital or theater - is terrorism.
Militiamen protect Grozny - it's just a resistance.
And thus, both the French resistance and the the various partisan movements against the Nazis in eastern Europe qualify, as they were not limited to military targets and were every bit as brutal as the Nazis themselves when it came to people they viewed as collaborators. Bombing police stations, derailing trains, assassinating public officials, etc etc. Grand total the French Resistance groups killed upwards of 8k French civilians in ISIS style summery executions, they just lacked an internet to post it on. The French call the period that the Resistance was pretty much the only government 'the savage purge' for a reason.
Soviet Partisans, despite during and post war propaganda, frequently engaged in what amounted to banditry against villages, and in areas where non-Soviet records survive, as well as those where the partisans turned against Russia as well as the Nazis, their attacks against civilians are noted.
it shows how what side they're on tints our views on 'terrorists' and their actions.
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
Back on topic, a french cop and his wife were stabbed to death at their home, in front of their 3 years old son, by Larossi Abballa, a 25 years old ISIS sympathizer.
He was shot down by the RAID.
(ISIS claimed the attack)
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/06/14 09:51:53
Kills a cop, and his wife... The kid probbly too if the French had not put a quick end to the attacker.
The world is crazy
Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
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I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.
And thus, both the French resistance and the the various partisan movements against the Nazis in eastern Europe qualify, as they were not limited to military targets and were every bit as brutal as the Nazis themselves when it came to people they viewed as collaborators. Bombing police stations, derailing trains, assassinating public officials, etc etc. Grand total the French Resistance groups killed upwards of 8k French civilians in ISIS style summery executions, they just lacked an internet to post it on. The French call the period that the Resistance was pretty much the only government 'the savage purge' for a reason.
But is collaborating with the Nazis were not war criminals and traitors?
Soviet Partisans, despite during and post war propaganda, frequently engaged in what amounted to banditry against villages, and in areas where non-Soviet records survive, as well as those where the partisans turned against Russia as well as the Nazis, their attacks against civilians are noted.
A big difference. The partisans did not do mass attacks against the German civilians. Of course, it was difficult to do so at the time ... but if they did not, it means theyre not terrorists.
At beginning, partisans were for the Soviet military simply citizens who (illegally) managed to get weapons. But then they were organized through the party cells and the partisans began to act on the plans from the Moscow. No orders "kill everyone in the village" could not be. It is the Nazis who kills people and drove them into slavery.
Mordant 92nd 'Acid Dogs'
The Lost and Damned
Inquisition
But is collaborating with the Nazis were not war criminals and traitors?
Technically, no, no more than it was treason for Germans working for the allies post war. And it also depends on what you did. The guy who delivered coffee to the Nazis was not a war criminal. The guy that delivered Jews was. The maquis in the brief interregnum between the Nazis and the Provisional government didn't make much distinction between the two.
As far as being a traitor goes... Not killing yourself in an effort to kill a Nazi was considered treason for Soviet citizens caught behind German lines at one point. (England had prepared a similar plan where English civilians would act a suicide bombers against the possible Nazi Invasion)
A big difference. The partisans did not do mass attacks against the German civilians.
No, they did it against Russian, Ukrainian, Estonian, Latvian, and Finnish civilians. The Red Army did it against German civilians, and that's a discussion for a WHOLE 'nother thread.
At beginning, partisans were for the Soviet military simply citizens who (illegally) managed to get weapons. But then they were organized through the party cells and the partisans began to act on the plans from the Moscow. No orders "kill everyone in the village" could not be. It is the Nazis who kills people and drove them into slavery.
I hate to be the one to tell you this, but in Estonia, it was the Finns, backed by the Nazis, who were saving the lives of civilians (albeit inadvertently) and the Russia paramilitary forces who were slaughtering them. They lost 32 men, out of a total of about 60, but managed to rescue over 2,000 civilians that had been ordered to be killed. By Moscow, via the NKVD. Interestingly, the official stance of the modern Russian state is to accuse them of war-crimes (despite this being their only actual action in Soviet territory, in which they were pretty much annihilated, and disbanded afterwards) and celebrating their actions to be 'Heroizing Nazism". Apparently it was a terrible war crime to prevent the murder of those farmers.
Épuration légale did not begin until deGaulle and the gouvernement provisoire de la République française stepped in. Épuration sauvage ran from liberation until order was restored by the provisional government.
As far as being a traitor goes... Not killing yourself in an effort to kill a Nazi was considered treason for Soviet citizens caught behind German lines at one point. (England had prepared a similar plan where English civilians would act a suicide bombers against the possible Nazi Invasion)
Civilians? Soldiers from captivity - yes, condemned for surrender. If could prove that they were captured unconsciousness, etc. then may be justified. But the citizens of the occupied territories are not automatically traitors (excluding commandants, informers, police, prostitutes, etc.)
The Red Army did it against German civilians, and that's a discussion for a WHOLE 'nother thread.
According to Company of Heroes, Red Army burned houses with the people indise ... I do not know why. Perhaps because the West simply used to seeing the Red Army as "evil", or Orcs Gogh-Magog. Cases of attacks on the civilian population of Germany could not be much. Because of it could be a tribunal, and the tribunal - is a execution of assaulter.
]I hate to be the one to tell you this, but in Estonia, it was the Finns, backed by the Nazis, who were saving the lives of civilians (albeit inadvertently) and the Russia paramilitary forces who were slaughtering them. They lost 32 men, out of a total of about 60, but managed to rescue over 2,000 civilians that had been ordered to be killed. By Moscow, via the NKVD. Interestingly, the official stance of the modern Russian state is to accuse them of war-crimes (despite this being their only actual action in Soviet territory, in which they were pretty much annihilated, and disbanded afterwards) and celebrating their actions to be 'Heroizing Nazism". Apparently it was a terrible war crime to prevent the murder of those farmers.
A Forest Brothers in Baltic, Bandera in Ukraine - bad part of the history, full of hatred, It can be interpreted in different ways. I do not know whether this can be considered terrorism. "destroyer squads" were under the direct control of the NKVD, even if they attacked the civilians is not for their will. Organizations like the NKVD in many countries can be likened to terrorists
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/15 04:27:39
Mordant 92nd 'Acid Dogs'
The Lost and Damned
Inquisition
Topic. Now. That's it for this tangent about how the Red Army "couldn't possibly have done it much". It's off topic and stupid. Take it to a relevant thread, or better yet don't.
I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own...
A lot of non-communication on this attack from the authorities, so rumor is flying think and fast as the media makes it up.
As opposed to suicide bombers, this was an inghimasi operation.
They work a bit like the old IJA Special Attack Units as opposed to the more common suicide bomber in that their missions can go beyond simple carnage.
Based on their front line strategies against the Iraqis, usually when they all pop it means that the mission went sideways somehow, unless 'Kill as many as you can' was their mission. It'd be an odd choice though for ISIS, since they have plenty of suicide killers who are not also combat veterans.
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
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Bangladesh hostage crisis: At least 2 killed as ISIS gunmen storm capital's diplomatic quarter
Islamic state has claimed responsibility for the attack on a restaurant in the diplomatic quarter of the Bangladeshi capital of Dhaka on Friday. At least two policemen have reportedly died, and dozens of people are being held hostage.
Islamic State has claimed responsibility for the attack, Reuters said, citing the terrorist group’s propaganda website Amaq. The number of casualties, Amaq claims, stands at more than 20. However, the information hasn’t yet been officially confirmed.
Four police officers have died, while the gunmen are holding approximately 40 hostages, including at least one Westerner, NBC News reported, citing Assistant Superintendent Fazle-e-Elahi. According to local media, two officers have been killed.
Istanbul Ataturk Airport attackers planned to massacre scores of hostages - report
The terrorists behind the Istanbul Ataturk Airport attack that killed 44 people plotted to take scores more hostage and massacre them, but the police intervened to prevent their plans, Turkish media claim.
Security camera footage shows the assailants scanning the area of the terminal, allegedly in search of victims. The attackers planned to take passengers hostage within the premises and then to massacre as many of them as possible, AFP reports, citing the Daily Sabah newspaper.
However, the attackers’ suspicious behavior and appearance attracted police attention and they were forced to begin their assault earlier than planned.
Turkish media report that 11 more suspected militants were detained over the attack on Friday in a raid conducted in Istanbul’s Basaksehir district. This puts the total of arrests made over the airport attack stands at 24, following the rounding-up of 13 suspects on Thursday. Fifteen foreign nationals are among those arrested, the Daily Sabah states, citing security sources that spoke on condition of anonymity due to restrictions on talking to the media.
Turkish media claim the mastermind of the attack was Ahmed Chataev, a Russian national from Dagestan, a region in Russia's North Caucasus. Chataev turned out to be long wanted by the Russian authorities for terrorism-related offenses but fled to Europe, where he was granted asylum and successfully managed to escape extradition to Russia.
Citing Turkish officials, the country’s media say Chataev had led a terror cell in Istanbul and found accommodation for the bombers.
He also allegedly organized two fatal bombings this year in Istanbul’s Sultanahmet tourist district and at Istiklal shopping street, according to the Hurriyet newspaper.
Iraq: Islamic State convoy destroyed in air strikes *GRAPHIC*
A convoy allegedly belonging to Islamic State (formerly ISIS, ISIL) militants, has been destroyed by a series of air strikes, west of of Amariyat al-Falluja, near the recently liberated city of Fallujah, Tuesday.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2016/07/01 23:01:41
At 0:04 there is a Russian-made APC (BTR-80?) in white colours and the UN letters on the front. Does any one know what the UN Peacekeepers are doing in Bangladesh and why they are involved in the anti-terrorist operation?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/02 16:37:32
At 0:04 there is a Russian-made APC (BTR-80?) in white colours and the UN letters on the front. Does any one know what the UN Peacekeepers are doing in Bangladesh and why they are involved in the anti-terrorist operation?
Bangledesh has one of the highest (if not the highest) proportion of police and armed forces members deployed in UN peacekeeping and policing roles. I would imagine that it isn't worth re painting vehicles if there is a high tempo of UN deployments.
Bangladesh gets a lot less attention than Pakistan, but it's probably a much bigger mess since separating from India than Pakistan ever was. Military coups happened at least once a decade up to 2007, sometimes twice (the countries first year in existence had 3). The government is secular, but very weak so corruption is a rampant problem. To make matters worse, Islamic extremism has been on the rise there since the late nineties.
In short, it's a country with very little stability, and very unfortunate people. The kind of place UN peacekeepers would end up being.
As I said. The tempo of deployments mean that it is likely repaints of eqpt for the police and paramilitary forces are not a high priority.
I cant see any UN peacekeeping missions active in Bangladesh.
I have no idea if there is a current UN peacekeeping mission.
However, Bangladesh is a huge contributor to UN peacekeeping (as in many Bangladesh nationals are in the UN Peacekeeping force). 9000 is a lot of people for one country to commit to UN peacekeeping. There's probably lots of UN stuff laying around in country in general as a result.
Radicalization can happen at all ages and classes of people.
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So how can ISIL justify bombings in Medina? Thats like Christians bombing Jerusalem no?
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
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Easy E wrote: The young men were reportedly the sons of influential and well-off Bangladeshi.
This leads me to the question of what appeal does radicalization have for them?
What appeal does it have for American's who radicalize? Even our poorest have a standard of living that is in many ways higher then most folks in the middle east.
Easy E wrote: The young men were reportedly the sons of influential and well-off Bangladeshi.
This leads me to the question of what appeal does radicalization have for them?
What appeal does it have for American's who radicalize? Even our poorest have a standard of living that is in many ways higher then most folks in the middle east.
Money is not a sole issue.
You'll have a hard time showing that poverty is even a large issue in radicalization. Look at the 9/11 crew, the Tsarnaevs, MAJ Hassan, the San Bernardino crew, Bin Laden and all his big wigs, and so on. You may, in Iraq, Syria or other war zones find guys willing to bury an IED for $$$ but they are not really radicalized.
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
Easy E wrote: The young men were reportedly the sons of influential and well-off Bangladeshi.
This leads me to the question of what appeal does radicalization have for them?
What appeal does it have for American's who radicalize? Even our poorest have a standard of living that is in many ways higher then most folks in the middle east.
Money is not a sole issue.
You'll have a hard time showing that poverty is even a large issue in radicalization. Look at the 9/11 crew, the Tsarnaevs, MAJ Hassan, the San Bernardino crew, Bin Laden and all his big wigs, and so on. You may, in Iraq, Syria or other war zones find guys willing to bury an IED for $$$ but they are not really radicalized.
There is stories about those who'd go suicide bomb under the promise that their families would be cared for, but again, your not talking radicalization. I doubt those guys are true believers.
Now there is definitely a correlation between radicalization and poverty, but I don't buy causation. In Afghanistan, especially, I attribute it more towards ignorance. The vast majority of Afghans are just utterly ignorant of anything beyond how to herd goats/plant opium/etc... their only source of knowledge is their local imam. It's a lot easier to radicalize those types of folks. That begs the question though, how do we explain westerners? By and large, they don't have that excuse.
Okay, so we have identified that poverty is not a driver, but what is the driver? What psychological need are they truing to fill? is it simply a need to feel like part of a dedicated group?
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Mordant 92nd 'Acid Dogs'
The Lost and Damned
Inquisition
