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2014/09/15 19:33:35
Subject: The Gamergate, Scandal, Conspiracy, and Journalism Corruption
I would also like to know how rape got included in gamergate?
? Good question. Also those twitter pages. I have promptly reported ^.^
Where is the rape allegation?
Vile like this exists,
But to assume and group everyone together and call them all sexist is wrong to decry the few and know these peoples names and report them as harassers and support the one who was harassed is fine.
I do not agree with Femfrequency Aka Antia and her beliefs. I see her thesis's and I disagree completely, but me being lumped in with abusers, threats, and attackers. That is pushing it far too much.
You cannot attack an entire group of people.
Now Antia if you come across this. I am an Egilitarian, an asexual as well. I see all walks of life as equal. But this is vileness, do not associate an entire movement based on a bad cookie. Otherwise many movements such as the woman's movement of rights where women did terrible things to prove their rights, or another terrible events that happened in the name of justice or what is right would of been thrown away.
I am asking you to keep an open mind to critiques from those who are responsible.
I might write up some stuff on this whole gamer gate issue and I will address both sides as equals. Sexism does exist, but some criticize you for your opinions, not for you being you.
This is a trigger warning though. It is harsh to believe these people truly exist, but it happens everyday. I've recieved threats against my life. But I do not acknowledge them. I do not give them the attention. These types of people feed on this attention. This gives them self worth to their meanlingless lives.
In closing.... Learn the difference between a Critic and a Harasser.
If you people think I am being sexist go ahead call me it, but if you know the full picture on what is going on currently maybe you might understand.
This is a culture war. The right side is winning, at great cost. At great personal costs to people like Anita Sarkeesian, Leigh Alexander, Zoe Quinn and even Jennifer Lawrence, and countless others who are on the frontlines of creating new worlds for women, for girls, for everyone who believes that stories matter and there are too many still untold. We are winning. We are winning because we are more resourceful, more compassionate, more culturally aware. We’re winning because we know what it’s like to fight through adversity, through shame and pain and constant reminders of our own worthlessness, and come up punching. We know we’re winning because the terrified rage of a million mouthbreathing manchild misogynists is thick as nerve gas in the air right now.
Us Social Justice Warriors – this is me, stealing that word in order to use it against my enemies- are winning the culture war by tearing up the rulebook, and there’s nothing the sad, mad little boys who hate women and queers and people of colour can do about it. Nothing, at least, that doesn’t sabotage their strategy, because they can win their game from day to day, but they’re losing the war. They can punish me for writing this, and I’m sure they will, but that will only prove my point. I’m not afraid anymore.
Every time they make an example of one of us, ten more stand up in outrage to hold her up or take her place.
We are stronger, smarter and more numerous than anyone imagined, and we are not to be fethed with.
Mechanical Crow wrote: Right back at you. You're defending fraud, rape, racketeering, corruption, conflicts of interest, unethical practices, mass censorship, and the pushing of the agenda that would stagnate art and police thought under the misguided guise of what? White Knighting third wave feminism? You're backing something that looks more like a misandry movement and resembles a hate group with the same built in fallacies and selection bias's rather then a group interested in equality.
...
So you managed to find something to quote, but you somehow failed to read just a few lines up in the same post where I said this:
I don't think you understand something very important here: it is possible for both sides to be wrong. Pointing out the problems with how someone is being treated does NOT mean defending everything that they have done. It is entirely possible for someone to be both a victim of misogynistic attitudes and a corrupt .
Also, I'll note that you pulled that quote out of my objection to an argument about how women are presented in video games, not any of the journalism issues or how people are being treated. The dishonesty of that move is just amazing.
Asherian Command wrote: ? Good question. Also those twitter pages. I have promptly reported ^.^
You: DEATH THREATS ARE A LIE
Them: Look, here's some death threats.
You: *reports post*
You: LOOK, NO DEATH THREATS!!!!
If you want to have a constructive discussion of the subject then it is going to involve posting offensive twitter statements as evidence. If you want to keep those messages out of the discussion then you need to do the honest thing and drop the "death threats were fake" argument since nobody can respond to it effectively without getting their posts reported.
You cannot attack an entire group of people.
Sure you can, because this kind of behavior is entirely typical of the gaming community. Things like "FPS player screaming racist abuse for an entire match" or "I play games, but I'm not one of those unwashed TFGs you see at the local store" are cliches for a reason. The fact that some gamers are decent people does not negate the fact that the community as a whole has problems.
Also, if you feel attacked then you should consider why you feel attacked. I don't feel attacked by this because I know I'm not guilty of the things that are being criticized.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
2014/09/15 20:01:16
Subject: The Gamergate, Scandal, Conspiracy, and Journalism Corruption
Mechanical Crow wrote: Right back at you. You're defending fraud, rape, racketeering, corruption, conflicts of interest, unethical practices, mass censorship, and the pushing of the agenda that would stagnate art and police thought under the misguided guise of what? White Knighting third wave feminism? You're backing something that looks more like a misandry movement and resembles a hate group with the same built in fallacies and selection bias's rather then a group interested in equality.
...
So you managed to find something to quote, but you somehow failed to read just a few lines up in the same post where I said this:
I don't think you understand something very important here: it is possible for both sides to be wrong. Pointing out the problems with how someone is being treated does NOT mean defending everything that they have done. It is entirely possible for someone to be both a victim of misogynistic attitudes and a corrupt .
Also, I'll note that you pulled that quote out of my objection to an argument about how women are presented in video games, not any of the journalism issues or how people are being treated. The dishonesty of that move is just amazing.
Asherian Command wrote: ? Good question. Also those twitter pages. I have promptly reported ^.^
You: DEATH THREATS ARE A LIE
Them: Look, here's some death threats.
You: *reports post*
You: LOOK, NO DEATH THREATS!!!!
If you want to have a constructive discussion of the subject then it is going to involve posting offensive twitter statements as evidence. If you want to keep those messages out of the discussion then you need to do the honest thing and drop the "death threats were fake" argument since nobody can respond to it effectively without getting their posts reported.
You cannot attack an entire group of people.
Sure you can, because this kind of behavior is entirely typical of the gaming community. Things like "FPS player screaming racist abuse for an entire match" or "I play games, but I'm not one of those unwashed TFGs you see at the local store" are cliches for a reason. The fact that some gamers are decent people does not negate the fact that the community as a whole has problems.
Also, if you feel attacked then you should consider why you feel attacked. I don't feel attacked by this because I know I'm not guilty of the things that are being criticized.
Peregrine. What the hell is the matter with you. I reported those posts to silence and help this woman. Not because I want to hide them.
Leave this thread because you just suggested I condone harassment. I will not have someone insult me in such a way!
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/09/15 20:04:54
Subject: The Gamergate, Scandal, Conspiracy, and Journalism Corruption
Asherian Command wrote: Leave this thread because you just suggested I condone harassment. I will not have someone insult me in such a way!
I suggested no such thing. I accused you of suppressing evidence that disagrees with your position, not condoning harassment. Perhaps you should take a step back and think about what everyone is saying? Because right now it looks like you're feeling like you're under siege as a self-defined "gamer", and lashing out emotionally at everything that looks like the "enemy".
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
2014/09/15 20:05:23
Subject: The Gamergate, Scandal, Conspiracy, and Journalism Corruption
Kilkrazy wrote: If games journalists are using attacks on Sarkeesian to hold up a shield of misogynism that defends against other alleged shenanigans, would it not be rather clever to stop attacking Sarkeesian, thus depriving these journalists of their shield?
This would also have the benefit of not seeming to be misogynist.
The problem with that...is that Gamers are not a hive mind.
There are genuine critics who disagree with Anita's views and "research methods" (guffaw) and try to challenge them in a respectful reasonable way (Mundane Matt, etc).
And then there are other people who genuinely are misogynists who hate women*, who send abusive messages and death threats, or people who simply aren't articulate enough to express their disagreement with her views in a reasonable way.
Guess which of the two groups Anita, Zoe Quinn and the mainstream media love to focus on, and which group they ignore?
*Misogyny gets thrown around a lot these days when it really shouldn't...You can be sexist, without being misogynist. Misogyny requires active hatred of women.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/15 20:05:46
2014/09/15 20:06:51
Subject: The Gamergate, Scandal, Conspiracy, and Journalism Corruption
This is a culture war. The right side is winning, at great cost. At great personal costs to people like Anita Sarkeesian, Leigh Alexander, Zoe Quinn and even Jennifer Lawrence, and countless others who are on the frontlines of creating new worlds for women, for girls, for everyone who believes that stories matter and there are too many still untold. We are winning. We are winning because we are more resourceful, more compassionate, more culturally aware. We’re winning because we know what it’s like to fight through adversity, through shame and pain and constant reminders of our own worthlessness, and come up punching. We know we’re winning because the terrified rage of a million mouthbreathing manchild misogynists is thick as nerve gas in the air right now.
Us Social Justice Warriors – this is me, stealing that word in order to use it against my enemies- are winning the culture war by tearing up the rulebook, and there’s nothing the sad, mad little boys who hate women and queers and people of colour can do about it. Nothing, at least, that doesn’t sabotage their strategy, because they can win their game from day to day, but they’re losing the war. They can punish me for writing this, and I’m sure they will, but that will only prove my point. I’m not afraid anymore.
Every time they make an example of one of us, ten more stand up in outrage to hold her up or take her place.
We are stronger, smarter and more numerous than anyone imagined, and we are not to be fethed with.
Okay.
This is where I draw the line. You can make a point.
But to decry millions of people as man children. is a gross exaggeration. Antia, Game’s Media please listen to these words.
Please. Do. Not. Generalize.
Do not lump a bunch of people under a single group. This makes your argument fall at it’s seems. Where all this idea of an unified gaming community is thrown against the wall because your argument is false. Vile like this is why people are hating your movement. This is not what gaming is for. It is the most accepting community I have ever seen. Where you could be a social outcast, and come onto a game of halo or warcraft 3, or starcraft or any online game, and people would support you.
Lets ignore the fact that 4chan does stupid gak. Do you know how much good they do? Do you know how many gamers donate to charities? Do you know of the multidudes of women in gaming?
Representation admittedly in gaming is a problem. And it has been for a while. And I go all for that. But calling us man-children and cry babies, mouthbreathing Misogynists…. Is one of the worst things you can say to us. I am insulted by these very words. I am not a Misogynist. I am an asexual egalitarian. What the hell… I am as far left as you can go. I am a socialist reformist communist egalitarian kantian! So please enlighten me as to why I hate women!
You know lets ignore #notyourshield. Or the hundreds of thousands of people are defending gaming, lets ignore those women, the minorities. Lets just go with the smaller minority. White men. Guess who makes up 48% of the gamer population? Women. That makes up 52% are male. Using mathematics, where the majority of the worlds population is infact, Asian lets also count it up and use the rough estimation of lets say 20% is the representation of the white men dominance. Thats not alot.
STop attacking gaming and calling us names, that is not getting you anywhere. That only proves your insecurities as a human being and that you are just a child who can’t argue a point.
You say these things but they are just words that are trying to use to attack people who criticize you.
This movement Gamergate is about the corruption of the media, this idea that we want transparency in the media. We want games to continue to be art, but we want an equal representation of the ideals of gamers by the games media.
So far we have seen articles about how gamers are dead. Do you really think that would assist you? By calling and generalizing gamers and calling us misgoynist or worse than ISIS? Or calling us terrorists?
Do you really think insults helps your cause?
There might be bad eggs in this movement but that happens in every movement that has happened. Either they be for peace, gay marriage, or hell for a cookie drive to raise money for homeless people. There always be a minority who’s goal is to hurt other people.
It happens. At the end of the day we are human beings. And I suggest you start treating us all like one. And we will treat you like we have been treating you, like a human being. I am speaking for gamers, designers, and everyone.
Do no dictate what an artist can and cannot do. That is wrong. Its like censoring the great roman statues of goddesses because they showed breasts. And somehow that is demeaning. ITs the human body, is that demeaning? No. Its not. The representation of women is a problem where they are shown to be weak.
That is a major issue.
And I leave it at that.
Sure you can, because this kind of behavior is entirely typical of the gaming community. Things like "FPS player screaming racist abuse for an entire match" or "I play games, but I'm not one of those unwashed TFGs you see at the local store" are cliches for a reason. The fact that some gamers are decent people does not negate the fact that the community as a whole has problems.
Also, if you feel attacked then you should consider why you feel attacked. I don't feel attacked by this because I know I'm not guilty of the things that are being criticized.
I have no idea who you have been playing with but that is not my experience. There are some bad apples. But Toxicity in the environment is actually not that common. You are completely false. Extra Credits actually did an episode on this quite a while ago and found it to be opposite.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2014/09/15 21:47:18
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/09/15 20:11:07
Subject: The Gamergate, Scandal, Conspiracy, and Journalism Corruption
There are certain posters who will seek to provoke vitriol to get the thread closed, just like previous threads. Don't feed the trolls*, don't p*** off the mods.
(*And no, I don't mean you Peregrine).
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/09/15 20:11:50
2014/09/15 20:12:32
Subject: The Gamergate, Scandal, Conspiracy, and Journalism Corruption
There are certain posters who will seek to provoke vitriol to get the thread closed, just like previous threads. Don't feed the trolls*, don't p*** off the mods.
(*And no, I don't mean you Peregrine).
Will do.
But I will discuss the issue further, but I will not take insults.
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/09/15 20:28:57
Subject: The Gamergate, Scandal, Conspiracy, and Journalism Corruption
AdeptSister wrote: Um, I watched Extra Credits, and they agreed that Toxicity was a rampant issue. That is why they talked about it.
But on gaming journalist corruption, I remember the Gamespot Kane and Lynch fiasco. Ugh.
Question: How did movie criticism become more independent? How can gaming follow it's example?
Well they need to do what siskel and ebert did. They are invited to watch movies and openly criticize the movies.
A great way to do this is to have so that the company or journalist group is paid by the movie to review it, but it necessarily it doesn't have to be an inspiring piece that bows down before the publisher and their money so they can get money from it.
There is a certain episode where james talks about how most people on Xbox live turn off their microphones nowadays. There is less toxicity in games because people downright ignore those people. That minority list is getting smaller and smaller, but there is still the vocal community who hate change and yadayada.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/09/15 20:42:04
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/09/15 21:26:32
Subject: Re:The Gamergate, Scandal, Conspiracy, and Journalism Corruption
Wasn't the term 'gamer' originally a marketing term used to remove the stigma of sitting inside all day playing video games? Seems odd to me that people self-identify as such.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/15 21:26:58
Oh my God! He wants to be a ballerina? That's MY f*#%ing dream!
2014/09/15 21:28:19
Subject: Re:The Gamergate, Scandal, Conspiracy, and Journalism Corruption
OldSkoolGoff wrote: Wasn't the term 'gamer' originally a marketing term used to remove the stigma of sitting inside all day playing video games? Seems odd to me that people self-identify as such.
Its because people like the term.
I mean I call certain people that like certain things by the stigma name. But i don't see it is bad thing to self identify as a gamer.
It means you belong to the community.
If people attack that stigma I am not going to redefine myself because of that criticism unless it is very well much needed. (like if all of a sudden a bunch of gamers in the name of gamers attacked and killed everyone at EA, I would distance myself and rename myself as something else.)
AdeptSister wrote: Question: How did movie criticism become more independent?
IMO it has to do with who has the power in each situation. And there seem to be two main differences:
1) Movie reviews are based heavily in "traditional" media, where there's a much smaller number of options in a given area. If you live in an average city you might have one, maybe two newspapers to choose from. This gives the newspaper a lot of power to maintain its independence since the movie industry can't simply go elsewhere to get their marketing. Game reviews, especially now, tend to be online where there's a huge diversity of sources. If one reviewer doesn't want to cooperate and give favorable reviews a game company can always find someone else who will.
2) Movie reviews are rarely an entire business. A newspaper that does a page of movie reviews once a week has very little to lose by dropping them, since the main thing that sells their product is the rest of the news. Game reviewers, on the other hand, tend to be purely focused on gaming and losing the cooperation of the game publishers would be a death sentence for their business. A side effect of this is that the newspaper has more of a reputation to protect. Publishing corrupt movie reviews would reflect badly on the rest of the paper, and it's not worth taking that risk for a minor side business.
So the end result is that you have a very different balance of power:
A newspaper has lots of power over the movie industry. The movie industry wants to get their product advertised, but the newspaper doesn't really care. So if the movie industry says "write a good review or we'll take away your early access to our movies" the newspaper can easily respond with "ok, fine, we're not reviewing your product anymore" and the movie industry will suffer much more of a loss than the newspaper. So the movie industry just has to accept that bad reviews are just part of doing business.
A game reviewer has very little power over the game industry. The game industry has lots of options to get its reviews and publicity, while the reviewer depends on having the game industry cooperate with them and give them early access to their products. If the game industry says "give us a good review or your early access is gone" the reviewer can either agree or go out of business. And so it's almost guaranteed that even mediocre games will get favorable reviews.
How can gaming follow it's example?
By deciding to publish accurate reviews. But that's not the interesting question. The "how" is easy, the hard part is the "why". Right now there's an arrangement that benefits both the reviewers and the industry, and neither side has any incentive to change. The only way anything will ever change is if they lose too many customers (or clicks and ad revenue) and they're forced to change. But given the fact that reviews have been known to be corrupt for years/decades and every outrage-generating incident has been quickly forgotten I don't think we're going to see any real change. Take away the arguments over misogyny and this incident would probably have been forgotten within a week and we'd be right back to business as usual.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
2014/09/16 01:10:31
Subject: The Gamergate, Scandal, Conspiracy, and Journalism Corruption
Peregrine. What the hell is the matter with you. I reported those posts to silence and help this woman. Not because I want to hide them.
Leave this thread because you just suggested I condone harassment. I will not have someone insult me in such a way!
While I don't think anyone should be leaving this thread because eh, censorship, there are obviously quite a few people in here I wouldn't bother replying to either because a) they're trolly, b) they just want to provoke arguments or c) their minds are made up and they have very circular logic. P-------- and H----- are 2 very obvious examples.
Also, twitter is funny because it seems to attract the lowest of the low and yet does nothing about them. I mean, apparently ISIS has members who actively tweet on twitter and nothing seems to be done about their accounts. Wth
My warmachine batrep & other misc stuff blog
http://sining83.blogspot.com/
2014/09/16 01:27:08
Subject: The Gamergate, Scandal, Conspiracy, and Journalism Corruption
I have gotten death threats too and I'm just some random person who kills whatever that happens to pop in front of my gun/dildo.
Both Anita and Zoe deceit others, lie and are corrupted pos so I don't see why people are surpriced that these people garner some hate? Nothing of value would be lost if these people died after eating all that gak.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/16 10:14:29
Every time I hear "in my opinion" or "just my opinion" makes me want to strangle a puppy. People use their opinions as a shield that other poeple can't critisize and that is bs.
If you can't defend or won't defend your opinion then that "opinion" is bs. Stop trying to tip-toe and defend what you believe in.
2014/09/16 01:35:41
Subject: The Gamergate, Scandal, Conspiracy, and Journalism Corruption
illuknisaa wrote: Both Anita and Zoe deceit others, lie and corrupted pos so I don't see why people are surpriced that these people garner some hate? Nothing of value would be lost if these people died after eating all that gak.
Nice job making your side look bad there.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
2014/09/16 01:57:33
Subject: The Gamergate, Scandal, Conspiracy, and Journalism Corruption
I have gotten death threats too and I'm just some random person who kills whatever that happens to pop in front of my gun/dildo.
Both Anita and Zoe deceit others, lie and corrupted pos so I don't see why people are surpriced that these people garner some hate? Nothing of value would be lost if these people died after eating all that gak.
O.O Wha?
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/09/16 02:00:24
Subject: The Gamergate, Scandal, Conspiracy, and Journalism Corruption
How could you not see it coming, after all those times I spoke about him?
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2014/09/16 02:02:14
Subject: The Gamergate, Scandal, Conspiracy, and Journalism Corruption
My question is this - since it's apparently the done thing to dismiss the entire gamergate thing because death threats have happened... where is that tipping point?
If one person in an ill defined group such as 'gamers' makes a death threat, I think we can all reasonably assume that his views aren't representative and thus that individual can be written off.
If every single person in a group makes a death threat, then we can all reasonably assume that that opinion is representative.
So where in the middle is the point at which you can just say "Nah, anything you say is bad and wrong because you guys are monsters, so I'm not even listening."
I personally don't think that the pro gamer side of this has gone anywhere near that. There's vitriol, but this is the internet - there is always going to be vitriol so long as people can spew it anonymously. I mean, just look how many people are complete A-Holes in person.
And it's not like the anti-gamer side has been a bastion of calm, polite commentary. Every reasonable individual involved has been against threatening people with violence or wishing them personal harm. So why can the anti gamer crowd not see past that at all? It seems pretty clear that many of them don't want to see past it and actually seriously debate with anyone. Meanwhile you have to admit that at least some of the pro gamer folks are at least trying to start some sort of dialogue, free of threats and whatever. And they are ignored, baited or dismissed.
I'm not going to flippantly say "both sides are wrong so call it a wash" as Peregrine has, because both sides have done things that are wrong, but the goals of the anti gamer side will be met with the fullness of time - more women will be involved in the industry, more games will be made to suit them and so on. It's a process that has been happening and will continue to happen, even if no one forces it. On the other hand, games media have not been growing more honest. Many of them just seem confused that people have a problem with their way of doing business, which to many average folks bears a striking similarity to fraud and corruption. To them it's the status quo. Not to mention that I am sure half of them just see their friends getting crapped on and hit back, even if they themselves may have never done anything seriously skeevy.
I'd like to see a nicer online community, where threats aren't a thing. We all would. But we aren't going to get there by trying to out-ahole the a-holes you disagree with.
2014/09/16 02:40:10
Subject: Re:The Gamergate, Scandal, Conspiracy, and Journalism Corruption
Bromsy wrote: My question is this - since it's apparently the done thing to dismiss the entire gamergate thing because death threats have happened... where is that tipping point?
If one person in an ill defined group such as 'gamers' makes a death threat, I think we can all reasonably assume that his views aren't representative and thus that individual can be written off. If every single person in a group makes a death threat, then we can all reasonably assume that that opinion is representative.
So where in the middle is the point at which you can just say "Nah, anything you say is bad and wrong because you guys are monsters, so I'm not even listening."
I personally don't think that the pro gamer side of this has gone anywhere near that. There's vitriol, but this is the internet - there is always going to be vitriol so long as people can spew it anonymously. I mean, just look how many people are complete A-Holes in person. And it's not like the anti-gamer side has been a bastion of calm, polite commentary. Every reasonable individual involved has been against threatening people with violence or wishing them personal harm. So why can the anti gamer crowd not see past that at all? It seems pretty clear that many of them don't want to see past it and actually seriously debate with anyone. Meanwhile you have to admit that at least some of the pro gamer folks are at least trying to start some sort of dialogue, free of threats and whatever. And they are ignored, baited or dismissed.
I'm not going to flippantly say "both sides are wrong so call it a wash" as Peregrine has, because both sides have done things that are wrong, but the goals of the anti gamer side will be met with the fullness of time - more women will be involved in the industry, more games will be made to suit them and so on. It's a process that has been happening and will continue to happen, even if no one forces it. On the other hand, games media have not been growing more honest. Many of them just seem confused that people have a problem with their way of doing business, which to many average folks bears a striking similarity to fraud and corruption. To them it's the status quo. Not to mention that I am sure half of them just see their friends getting crapped on and hit back, even if they themselves may have never done anything seriously skeevy.
I'd like to see a nicer online community, where threats aren't a thing. We all would. But we aren't going to get there by trying to out-ahole the a-holes you disagree with.
I agree. I think that has been my argument the entire time.
Both sides have problems.
But the minority does not represent the majority.
I think there are lots of points that have been brought up by the gamer gate issue. It is still in use and the use of it has grown exponentially.
Also a timeline if anyone is interested ( Taken from reddit)
PREVIOUSLY I.E. HISTORICAL / RELEVANT INFORMATION Zoe Quinn helps create a Startup, Dames Make Games in Toronto Zoe Quinn Creates Depression Quest in 2012, using Twine, with Patrick Lindsey (Writing/Editing) and Isaac Shankler (music) Word of mouth comments on metafilter, 4chan’s /r9k/, and /r/IndieGaming about the game Depression Quest on Launch, February 14th, 2013. limited attention is received. Zoe Attends Indiecade Nightgames festival with Depression Quest Zoe Quinn Decides to pull Depression Quest from Steam Greenlight Program after receiving harassment, threats and attacks, pointing to Wizardchan. December 13th 2013. Allegations against Wizardchan are debunked, Collected 'dox' phone and addresses are proven to be false. 2 weeks after removing the game, Resubmits into Greenlight Program to be approved on January 7th 2014 Yasmeena “Maya” Felix Kramer, who works as SilverString Media’s PR, attacks TheFineYoungCapitalist's (TFYC) site, obtains and posts information about the organisers of the competition, while in contact with Zoe Quinn on facebook. Zoe Breaks up with Eron Gjoni, though the breakup is perturbed by Zoe’s disclosed Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) with evident depressive and suicidal, and manipulative episodes throughout the post. Depression Quest is approved, just after news of Robin Willam's suicide, Zoe Debates if she should release the game on twitter and Tumblr posts. Asks for donations to go to iFred as acknowledgement. Depression Quest is released on Steam. ZOEPOST Eron Gjoni 's breakup post with Zoe Quinn Other Forums pick up Eron’s post . The “internet hate machine” taking notice of Zoe Quinn again. timeline here Matt / SillySladar of The Fine Young Capitalists comments in a reddit post (thread since deleted) that his site has been DDOS attacked and ‘doxxed’ by Zoe Quinn (Maya Kramer) over libellous comments she made and misunderstood about the competition in March this year. In the same thread, people from Wizardchan had collected logs of chat at the time that Zoe Quinn accused them of harassing her. A youtube DMCA takedown of a Video repost of Eron’s post by MundaneMatt, coming from 'zoe quinn' TotalBiscuit replying to the use of the DMCA to take down video content. Several (9) Forums having threads and posts censored. The most prolific being reddit, which is still banning users based on keywords in the Games and Gaming subreddits. THEN (EVENTS OF THE 19TH AUGUST TO 30TH AUGUST), Calls to blogs, games news sites and others for coverage Phil Fish starts to abuse people on twitter, cancels Fez 2, Projects Polytron Dropbox is hacked, business files are stolen Phil Fish abuses person that accuses Zoe Quinn of abusing him at Phil Fish’s wedding on twitter, abuses TotalBiscuit Phil Fish announces closing and sale of Polytron Stephen Totillo of Kotaku debunks claim of Nathan Grayson writing about Zoe Quinn after relationship. Does not seem to be aware that the window of time is 1 day from the article being posted, to the relationship starting. Lordkat, JonTron discuss the issue on their games video blog sites. Donations to TFYC reach the point where they can choose an avatar, Vivian James is selected by /v/. Eron Gjoni posts AMA on reddit /r/Drama. replies regarding Zoe Quinn, Maya Kramer are brought up. Anita Sarkeesian releases 7th video in kickstarter funded Tropes of Women in Video Games series, on Hitman Absolution. Joss Whedon tweets to femfreq / Anita Sarkeesian giving his support Adam Baldwin tweets a video link, starting #GamerGate Patreon Account of Zoe Quinn, gains over 500 supporters. TFYC IndieGoGo site is hacked, closed, and then reopened. JonTron replies to TimSchafer saying he didn’t like the message of Anita Sarkeesian’s video, is attacked by Tim Schafer of DoubleFine, Appears on co-optional podcast later that day. #IStandwithJonTron tag is hijacked on twitter, allegedly organised on SomethingAwful forums. Anita Sarkeesian receives Death threats via twitter, Asks for donations to FemFreq. forced to leave home for safety. Zoe Quinn responds to Adam Baldwin on twitter. Patricia Hernandez of kotaku revises her articles disclosing relationship with the game developer she had a relationship with, according to their new policy. 14 Similar Stories about misogynistic gamers appear on multiple sites on the same day. Games news sites start to comment on Gamer Culture / Reactions Various Petitions come out ‘For’ gamers, ‘For’ women, ‘For’ ethical Standards. Ex staff member of Silverstring talks about Maya Felix Kramer’s behavior on Eron's AMA Zoe Quinn, Maya Kramer Attend PAX Prime PAX discussion comes under fire when people talk about bloggers in the panel instead of journalists or press. September Other tags appear, #NotAllWomen and #NotYourShield. Donations start to come in to the TheFineYoungCapitalists Developer program, including $6000+ from 4chan, to create Vivian James (Vidya Games), A caricature female gamer or Moe Chan / gijinka (ie a ‘cute’ anthropomorphism/mascot, e.g. OS-tan). Christina Hoff Summers, of AEI talks publicly for gamers, links to breitbart article & the economist, is called out by Adam Weinstein of Gawker. Jayd3Fox produces a mock video "Professional Victims vs Gaming Communites", is harassed online. TheFineYoungCapitalists discuss a truce with Zoe Quinn and Silverstring Media, who represent Zoe Quinn about the TFYC program, the agreement falls through. Allegations of the IGF chairman Brandon Boyer and judges for the IGF competition, being friends with and linked to SilverString Media when Zoe Quinn’s ‘Depression Quest’ and ‘Papers, Please’ won awards. IGF discusses the judging process 3 days later in response to questions about how the process works. Zoe Quinn Posts IRC logs of 4chan, declares #GameOverGate with storify link of Alleged harassment and organisation. a new hastag #GamerGateau about game themed cakes. Allegations of racketeering and Indiecade/IGF awards for Fez/Polytron funding Chris Grant of Polygon, admits to blocking 1800 twitter users from his twitter feed, including other journalists. Then removes the list within hours. Storify content is debunked by MundaneMatt and others as disingenuous and implausible, showing out of context screenshots. Examiner article notes that Tyler Malka (NeoGAF) supports the hashtag #GameEthics, to be a spillover from #GamerGate, proposed to remove '4chan involvement' from issues of integrity and independence in games journalism, with limited success. Tyler Malka, Owner of NeoGAF then proceeds to abuse someone on twitter the same day. #writeakotakuarticle hashtag is started. Nathan Grayson interview with Blizzard goes off track discussing women in their MoBA game, Gets pulled into #gamergate discussion in social media. Zoe Quinn links to an article on wikipediocracy, where they discusss people editing Zoe Quinn’s Wikipedia page, the article names all of the editors individually, citing photos, discussion of the editor’s reddit posting history, analysing their posting history, including the discussion of a transgender minor, and the high school they attend. Zoe Quinn seeks to mediate discussion using a new tag, #OpenTheGates, with limited success. TFYC IndieGoGo is fully financed at $65,000 Vivian James Platformer Prototype is created and playable online. TheNerdist releases a video about GamerGate, gets called out by MundaneMatt. Journalists investigate Anita Sarkeesian’s police report, assumptions are that it's missing due to the FBI being involved from a former photoshopped CP used in earlier online harassment. Jennifer Hale (voice actor for Bioware, Mass Effect & ~300 Games/TV Shows) talks about this issue on Marketplace Tech Report on ‘Internet Slowdown Day’ for Net Neutrality awareness. zoe responds in /r/SRSGaming thread about hearing this interview. Joe Rogan wants to interview Adam Baldwin on their podcast.
Hard to take those threats seriously imo. Anyone who has ever played CoD could claim to have been subject to the same stuff. The number of times I've been called the N word and threatened with rape. Of course I laughed it off because I'm not an absolute muppet.
Oh my God! He wants to be a ballerina? That's MY f*#%ing dream!
2014/09/16 04:00:30
Subject: The Gamergate, Scandal, Conspiracy, and Journalism Corruption
OldSkoolGoff wrote: Hard to take those threats seriously imo. Anyone who has ever played CoD could claim to have been subject to the same stuff. The number of times I've been called the N word and threatened with rape. Of course I laughed it off because I'm not an absolute muppet.
Agreed to a certain extent but still, it is stupid to do.
But the things they say are terrible.
But that is a known issue, that is not a surprise on the internet.
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/09/16 08:21:45
Subject: Re:The Gamergate, Scandal, Conspiracy, and Journalism Corruption
Julian Assange was on Reddit. A comment from a shadowbanned user (ShaskaOtselot) went through somehow asking his opinion on Gamergate, Julian answered, someone pointed out the user had been banned. . .
Awkward thing to happen in front of an anti-censorship advocate.
Sining wrote:I don't think most people should be getting death threats period.
Neither do I but if we made a list of "100 thing that should be changed" I doubt ""death""threaths" would even make the cut.
Peregrine wrote:
illuknisaa wrote: Both Anita and Zoe deceit others, lie and corrupted pos so I don't see why people are surpriced that these people garner some hate? Nothing of value would be lost if these people died after eating all that gak.
How could you not see it coming, after all those times I spoke about him?
Wtf are you talking about?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/16 10:14:06
Every time I hear "in my opinion" or "just my opinion" makes me want to strangle a puppy. People use their opinions as a shield that other poeple can't critisize and that is bs.
If you can't defend or won't defend your opinion then that "opinion" is bs. Stop trying to tip-toe and defend what you believe in.
2014/09/16 11:16:07
Subject: The Gamergate, Scandal, Conspiracy, and Journalism Corruption
Julian Assange was on Reddit. A comment from a shadowbanned user (ShaskaOtselot) went through somehow asking his opinion on Gamergate, Julian answered, someone pointed out the user had been banned. . .
Awkward thing to happen in front of an anti-censorship advocate.
The person was banned before that comment was made. He was shadow banned for a good reason. Though the peeps at reddit allowed him to come back ask her a question.
It was actually a good thing the mods allowed him to comment on the thread.
