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Made in us
Douglas Bader






 VorpalBunny74 wrote:
Wait, was that a royal "you" or directed at me?


It was a general "you", not you specifically.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
Posts with Authority






Is there a point to this? Peregrine has flat out stated that he cannot be wrong, so what is the point in engaging in a debate with him? He has been doing nothing but making declarative statements based on his opinion, but apparently confuses his opinion with facts, and will not be persuaded there is a difference... so why bother?
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka




Kamloops, BC

 Bromsy wrote:
Is there a point to this? Peregrine has flat out stated that he cannot be wrong, so what is the point in engaging in a debate with him? He has been doing nothing but making declarative statements based on his opinion, but apparently confuses his opinion with facts, and will not be persuaded there is a difference... so why bother?


Pretty much everyone has been doing that in this thread.
   
Made in us
Posts with Authority






 Cheesecat wrote:
 Bromsy wrote:
Is there a point to this? Peregrine has flat out stated that he cannot be wrong, so what is the point in engaging in a debate with him? He has been doing nothing but making declarative statements based on his opinion, but apparently confuses his opinion with facts, and will not be persuaded there is a difference... so why bother?


Pretty much everyone has been doing that in this thread.


Really? Provide some quotes where people haven't just been stating their opinion, but instead stating that they don't have an opinion - they only have facts.
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka




Kamloops, BC

Alright, I'm not going to look though all 31 pages to prove my point, I'll admit I'm wrong on that accusation and that my point is just pure conjecture. But what I do know about a lot of debates is that a lot of people go into them with strong beliefs and are just looking for others to help validate

them rather than actually wanting to be informed and/or open minded on the issue, aka confirmation bias.
   
Made in us
Posts with Authority






 Cheesecat wrote:
Alright, I'm not going to look though all 31 pages to prove my point, I'll admit I'm wrong on that accusation and that my point is just pure conjecture. But what I do know about a lot of debates is that a lot of people go into them with strong beliefs and are just looking for others to help validate

them rather than actually wanting to be informed and/or open minded on the issue, aka confirmation bias.


That's fine man. I will not debate that most people go into a debate believing they aren't wrong. Only one person in this debate has stated they are never wrong.
   
Made in au
Dakka Veteran






Canberra

 Bromsy wrote:
Is there a point to this? Peregrine has flat out stated that he cannot be wrong, so what is the point in engaging in a debate with him? He has been doing nothing but making declarative statements based on his opinion, but apparently confuses his opinion with facts, and will not be persuaded there is a difference... so why bother?

I like hearing opinions that are different from mine, and trying to see the other point of view. I want to hear what they have to say.

Heck I'll come right out and thank Peregrine for being a dissenting voice and providing a differing viewpoint. Not letting people talk about issues is what escalated this mess.

So uh, thank you Peregrine.

   
Made in fr
Hallowed Canoness






That writer in the first link seems goddamn batman angry! How come nobody had posted about that lawyer against game corruption corruption here ? I really wonder, not.
That last link seems pretty misguided though, TFYC seems like a really nice bunch.
 VorpalBunny74 wrote:
If some elements of the right decide to strike while the iron is hot (a la Milo Yiannopoulos) and join this on the side of GamerGate then a lot of gamers might become more right wing out of simple gratitude.

Woah, you really do believe that a lot of gamers are complete, total idiots!
(And before someone misunderstands me, I am not saying being right-wing makes you a complete, total idiot. I am saying “becoming right-wing out of gratitude” makes you a total, completely idiotic gullible moron.)

"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 Cheesecat wrote:
So the appropriate response to posts with little substance is to be just as obnoxious?

Not at all, unless you can be funny at the same time.

 Goliath wrote:
You are both correct.

Yes, but I'm more correct.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/27 13:03:14


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Veteran ORC







 Cheesecat wrote:
Alright, I'm not going to look though all 31 pages to prove my point, I'll admit I'm wrong on that accusation and that my point is just pure conjecture. But what I do know about a lot of debates is that a lot of people go into them with strong beliefs and are just looking for others to help validate

them rather than actually wanting to be informed and/or open minded on the issue, aka confirmation bias.



Considering this thread has two sides of the debate and the ONLY person everyone has a problem with is the guy who said he's always right, I'm not sure I follow you on this.

I've never feared Death or Dying. I've only feared never Trying. 
   
Made in de
Camouflaged Zero






 Slarg232 wrote:
 Cheesecat wrote:
Alright, I'm not going to look though all 31 pages to prove my point, I'll admit I'm wrong on that accusation and that my point is just pure conjecture. But what I do know about a lot of debates is that a lot of people go into them with strong beliefs and are just looking for others to help validate

them rather than actually wanting to be informed and/or open minded on the issue, aka confirmation bias.



Considering this thread has two sides of the debate and the ONLY person everyone has a problem with is the guy who said he's always right, I'm not sure I follow you on this.


Everyone? Speak for yourself. And just two sides? Nothing ever really has only two sides if there's more than one person involved.
   
Made in us
Veteran ORC







 Minx wrote:
 Slarg232 wrote:
 Cheesecat wrote:
Alright, I'm not going to look though all 31 pages to prove my point, I'll admit I'm wrong on that accusation and that my point is just pure conjecture. But what I do know about a lot of debates is that a lot of people go into them with strong beliefs and are just looking for others to help validate

them rather than actually wanting to be informed and/or open minded on the issue, aka confirmation bias.



Considering this thread has two sides of the debate and the ONLY person everyone has a problem with is the guy who said he's always right, I'm not sure I follow you on this.


Everyone? Speak for yourself. And just two sides? Nothing ever really has only two sides if there's more than one person involved.


Ummm.... did I say "Both" sides implying that there are ONLY two sides? No, I did not.

Go take a nap or change yer diaper and come back afterwards

I've never feared Death or Dying. I've only feared never Trying. 
   
Made in fr
Hallowed Canoness





 Slarg232 wrote:
Considering this thread has two sides of the debate and the ONLY person everyone has a problem with is the guy who said he's always right, I'm not sure I follow you on this.

Oh. Who is this everyone? Because there are a bunch of members that have no problem with Peregrine. Actually, I would say only the GGers have problems with him .

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/27 17:23:20


"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1 
   
Made in us
Cosmic Joe





What I don't want is an enviroment where a creator has to go through a politically correct checklist of races, genders and sexual preferences just to write a story.
There's a difference between trying to put more emphasis on minorities and such and forcing/shaming people that write about non-minorities.
I'm a writer and the same debate is going on in the literary world. Writers tend to write what they know and often when they try to write from a different perspective, it comes out inaccurate or unconvincing.
They want more women in games? Get more women making games.
I refuse to be told what to write though. If my character's a white male protestant, I'm not going to apologize.
(Says the guy that wrote a history book about powerful women.)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/27 17:32:44




Also, check out my history blog: Minimum Wage Historian, a fun place to check out history that often falls between the couch cushions. 
   
Made in ca
Deadly Dark Eldar Warrior






Back to gamergate stuff, and sorry Ive been away, I decided to write an email to the advertisers every time peregrine altered facts to fit his narrative, so It was a ton of emails. In a way he has really supported the cause.

Anyway, seems Dina from the might no 9 thing is getting in on this and blocking anyone that supports gamergate, including people that have PAID her.

http://theralphretort.com/friend-notorious-dev-blocks-mighty-9-customer-twitter/

and people are going above Kickstarter to get their money back:
http://theralphretort.com/confirmed-chargebacks-work-mighty-9/

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/09/27 17:54:52


For commissions PM me
Ongoing commission and random artsy blog: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/611141.page#7129769 
   
Made in de
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 VorpalBunny74 wrote:
 Bromsy wrote:
Is there a point to this? Peregrine has flat out stated that he cannot be wrong, so what is the point in engaging in a debate with him? He has been doing nothing but making declarative statements based on his opinion, but apparently confuses his opinion with facts, and will not be persuaded there is a difference... so why bother?

I like hearing opinions that are different from mine, and trying to see the other point of view. I want to hear what they have to say.


This, exactly. Everyone is and should be free to speak his respective opinion as long as it follows the rules, whether you agree with those or not. Peregrine has a different opinion and is entitled to it, so either argue with him or just ignore what he says and move on. Since he literally said that he's always right, he has zero credibility whatsoever anyway. But having a different opinion still is a good thing.

   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 Sigvatr wrote:
Since he literally said that he's always right, he has zero credibility whatsoever anyway.


Lol, no. I didn't say that I'm always right, I said that I only post when I know I'm right. I don't know how you go from "if I'm not sure about something I STFU and don't embarrass myself" to "zero credibility", but I suspect it has something to do with disagreeing with me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Mechanical Crow wrote:
http://theralphretort.com/friend-notorious-dev-blocks-mighty-9-customer-twitter/


HEY GUYS WE HAVE A RIGHT TO MAKE PEOPLE LISTEN TO US AND IF THEY DON'T LISTEN TO US THEN THERE MUST BE CONSEQUENCES.

Is this the place where you start a rant about "censorship", or are you going to let someone else handle this?

and people are going above Kickstarter to get their money back:
http://theralphretort.com/confirmed-chargebacks-work-mighty-9/


Oh, and here's the consequences: abusing the chargeback system that favors the customer to get a refund that you don't really deserve.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/27 19:24:33


There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







It seems fair to me, that is, provided they don't end up receiving any goods at the end of it all.

If this 'mighty no. 9' is shipped now, then that's not awesome.
   
Made in fr
Hallowed Canoness





 MWHistorian wrote:
What I don't want is an enviroment where a creator has to go through a politically correct checklist of races, genders and sexual preferences just to write a story.

Good for you. I do not want an environment where I can fill many bikini armor bingo every time I play a MOBA. And therefore, I am playing MOBA that do not try to oversexualized every female character, and I make it loud and clear that I dislike the sexualization. Got a problem with that? Does that makes me someone who “forces every creator to go through a politically correct checklist”?

"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 Compel wrote:
It seems fair to me, that is, provided they don't end up receiving any goods at the end of it all.


That would be a legitimate chargeback, but the "issue" here is anger at being blocked on twitter and/or the game's forum, not failure to deliver a product.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in au
Oberstleutnant






Perth, West Australia

 MWHistorian wrote:
What I don't want is an enviroment where a creator has to go through a politically correct checklist of races, genders and sexual preferences just to write a story.

Thanks for the perspective from the literary field. That's definitely a really important aspect that a number of game devs have spoken out about too and you're spot on about the problem and the only way to really fix it.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

This video was apparently delayed twice because of all the new info that kept popping up... and it's only part 1. In any case, it's an interesting recap of the past few week's worth of events for anyone wishing to find out or for people who've found themselves lost in the jumble:







This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/28 05:47:01


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in fr
Hallowed Canoness





 Mechanical Crow wrote:
Lucky you its been a slow news week, I'm going to keep sending emails to the advertisers every time you post, I've decided to make a game of your impotent arguing and put it to a good cause.

You have said it a few dozen times already. I do not think he cares. Personally, I think that the advertisers being spammed by consumers is delicious irony. I hope for them they have a good anti-spam filter .

"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1 
   
Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User





 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
 Mechanical Crow wrote:
Lucky you its been a slow news week, I'm going to keep sending emails to the advertisers every time you post, I've decided to make a game of your impotent arguing and put it to a good cause.

You have said it a few dozen times already. I do not think he cares. Personally, I think that the advertisers being spammed by consumers is delicious irony. I hope for them they have a good anti-spam filter .


It's worth trying to get advertisers to change their tune towards those sites, particularly if they're getting bad rap. Enough voices can come together to prove that point. It's been done many times in the past so it can be done again. Anything we think is a worthy cause is worth trying. Better than throwing the cards on the table and saying "welp, we just give up".
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





Chicago, Illinois

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
 Mechanical Crow wrote:
Lucky you its been a slow news week, I'm going to keep sending emails to the advertisers every time you post, I've decided to make a game of your impotent arguing and put it to a good cause.

You have said it a few dozen times already. I do not think he cares. Personally, I think that the advertisers being spammed by consumers is delicious irony. I hope for them they have a good anti-spam filter .



Hahaha yeah because a mass media event like this wont make them think. "Should I go to the website causing my trouble or should I not support them and cease this problem permanently and keep my good PR?"

I think they would happy with keeping their customers happy. Not the people they pay

It benefits them to get rid of these people.

From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war. 
   
Made in fr
Hallowed Canoness





 CatharsisX wrote:
It's worth trying to get advertisers to change their tune towards those sites, particularly if they're getting bad rap.

Well, if it helps you went out, great. But what will this change? Will it makes the game I play any better? I do not see any real motivation…
 Asherian Command wrote:
I think they would happy with keeping their customers happy.

Does not “keep the customers happy” go against your mantra about artistic integrity?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/09/29 02:24:35


"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1 
   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut




This is a pretty interesting read on Gaming and the oppression olympics
https://archive.today/uOKyG

My warmachine batrep & other misc stuff blog
http://sining83.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





Chicago, Illinois

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
 CatharsisX wrote:
It's worth trying to get advertisers to change their tune towards those sites, particularly if they're getting bad rap.

Well, if it helps you went out, great. But what will this change? Will it makes the game I play any better? I do not see any real motivation…
 Asherian Command wrote:
I think they would happy with keeping their customers happy.

Does not “keep the customers happy” go against your mantra about journalistic integrity?


What?

No it doesn't it is reinforced by it.

Journalists need to learn that.

They need to learn about integrity and being honest.

And clearly label whether it is an editorial

List sources,

List personal biases.


Hybrid this has been going on for 7 weeks.

And the things people want will change.

And communicating to the advertisers and say. "Do not support these people."

Is a pretty great idea. And also not visiting their sites because feth them.

This cuts their funding and in another way forces them into another situation that they rather not be in.

Because everyone was expecting it, here's what I think about Zoe Quinn. She is a person without morals. She is a shameless self-promoter. But let's be fething frank here, has anyone worked in sales or business? She's not exceptional in any way! I've seen people talk about, "She's corrupted the gaming media, this and that..." No. The gaming media was ALREADY corrupt. The environment of one-sidedness and pretentious, over-educated bs is what allowed this fething thing to happen in the first place! Zoe Quinn is not the Ebola virus that wiped out a hospital, she is an Ebola virus in the Ebola celebration commitee. She, like Anita Sarkeesian, is another poster child practically constructed by the media so that journalists could point to her and say, "Look! People hate this WOMAN! Look how much people hate WOMEN! All women!"


I laughed and laughed. This is quite interesting to see in an article.

Though he swears quite often and needs to work on certain parts of the article it is a good summary of the entire oppression olypmics currently going on.

I've always suspected corruption over and over again. But there was no cause to bring it to justice. And now the people want the media in games to change. This is basically a giant battle, and the journalists are basically get their ass handed to them.

They have lost so much.

Their images are destroyed and those that regarded them well have dwindled to bare bones. Barely able to aid them, because of the decisions they have made. It has been shown time and time again that they are colluding with each other and have purposefully biased each other and will continue to paint their consumers//readers as immoral bigots.

I am not saying there isn't some individuals who fall under that category, but they are the minority. They are vocal, but they are the minority.

I think they biggest problem also is the mass censorship of those who speak out against. I.E. 4chan and reddit doing this massive wipe out.

Where /v has basically left 4chan for good. And 4chan has begun to suffer and fall at it's seems.

This movement like I thought it would, would have real consequences on those that dare to poke the angry beast.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/09/29 02:14:11


From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war. 
   
Made in fr
Hallowed Canoness






Sorry, meant artistic.
 Asherian Command wrote:
And clearly label whether it is an editorial

A review is subjective by nature. It is the journalists job to speak of subjective stuff all the time. Deal with it.
 Asherian Command wrote:
Because everyone was expecting it, here's what I think about Zoe Quinn. She is a person without morals. She is a shameless self-promoter. But let's be fething frank here, has anyone worked in sales or business? She's not exceptional in any way! I've seen people talk about, "She's corrupted the gaming media, this and that..." No. The gaming media was ALREADY corrupt. The environment of one-sidedness and pretentious, over-educated bs is what allowed this fething thing to happen in the first place! Zoe Quinn is not the Ebola virus that wiped out a hospital, she is an Ebola virus in the Ebola celebration commitee. She, like Anita Sarkeesian, is another poster child practically constructed by the media so that journalists could point to her and say, "Look! People hate this WOMAN! Look how much people hate WOMEN! All women!"

So the problem with “video game journalist corruption” is once again not about the big producers giving advantages in exchange of good reviews, but only about the fact they do share some of my opinions on female representations in video games. Woah, such corruption, much tragedy, really terrible!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
By the way, I found that for you:
http://comments.deviantart.com/1/380891149/3533347933

Secondly you are right about the key art that the male and female form are not represented equal on that image. There is no counter argument to that and I will admit that indeed there has been a bad judgement call on that part. Partially with me, partially with the marketing departement at Larian. Having done the reflection excersice more than once I do realise I made a big mistake on this part and I have only myself to blame for not seeing this issue when creating this image, as an artists it was my responsibility to say "guys, we're sending the wrong message with this image."
All because the issue was non excisting for me at the time of creation.

I am pretty sure this translate as “That image was actually problematic, and if people had not reacted to it, I would never have known”. Now was the reaction pedagogue enough? Apparently not. Should work on that. Still was a good thing .

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/29 02:32:17


"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1 
   
Made in au
Oberstleutnant






Perth, West Australia

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
 Mechanical Crow wrote:
Lucky you its been a slow news week, I'm going to keep sending emails to the advertisers every time you post, I've decided to make a game of your impotent arguing and put it to a good cause.
Personally, I think that the advertisers being spammed by consumers is delicious irony. I hope for them they have a good anti-spam filter .

Your personal, non-industry experience once again is amusing because other peoples personal, INDUSTRY EXPERIENCE has shown how much they DO care. Even more amusingly, this was brought up in the journo list after some of them were laughing at the attempts, when another member chimed in citing his industry experience witht he specific company they were talking about, and how much the companies do care about this.

GAME JOURNO PRO MEMBER EXPLAINS HOW TO PULL ADVERTISER SUPPORT. You're being proven wrong repeatedly about things on this issue. If that kept happenign to me I'd be re-evaluating my stance.
   
 
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