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He also allows a reroll of that nasty Double 2, which succccks.



Yeah, I just threw that together, the percentages stuff isn't my strong suit.

I think the big thing that we should probably be talking about is more how to deal with the stupid Cullexus in a flier or Drop Pod (possible now with Space Wolves) I mean it's really hard to deal with the Drop Pod version. The Flier version you have a good chance again. That drop pod though, I honestly can't come up with a Defense against that. Normally you castle or at least I do against Drop Pod spam or I summon a mass amount of Daemons as much as I can to make a buffer.

Just hard to deal with that.


I mean just dealing with the Cullexus in general is difficult, but he'll straight up murder Fateweaver and just shut down your game for a turn on a alpha strike and quickly. Then shuts down any defenses you have put up and if they get the 1st it's really difficult.

Having been on the recieving end of a Drop Pod Cullexus and Centurionstar it's tough.

Nurgle's a bit better against him, because they auto get the Shrouded.

Hollismason wrote:I think the big thing that we should probably be talking about is more how to deal with the stupid Cullexus in a flier or Drop Pod (possible now with Space Wolves) I mean it's really hard to deal with the Drop Pod version. The Flier version you have a good chance again. That drop pod though, I honestly can't come up with a Defense against that. Normally you castle or at least I do against Drop Pod spam or I summon a mass amount of Daemons as much as I can to make a buffer.

Just hard to deal with that.


I mean just dealing with the Cullexus in general is difficult, but he'll straight up murder Fateweaver and just shut down your game for a turn on a alpha strike and quickly. Then shuts down any defenses you have put up and if they get the 1st it's really difficult.

Having been on the recieving end of a Drop Pod Cullexus and Centurionstar it's tough.

Nurgle's a bit better against him, because they auto get the Shrouded.

This is one of the advantages of nurgle princes. Their self reliance.

As long as the damage isn't too bad you can always jump away from the Cullexus however if they are dropping it in they probably dropped a bunch of other nasty stuff and are likely to kill whatever they drop near. My strategy for this sort of thing is to bait one corner of the board with my army or the more expensive half of my army. I then put any important objectives I get to place in the other corner. Either they drop in and kill a significant portion of my army and have extreme difficulties getting back to objectives or they get the objective but deal vastly less damage. In the case of the Tz based list with dependence on shrouding this is less ideal.

Another option could be a void shield gen to place the daemons inside spaced out so that the pods cannot land inside. Otherwise you could try to create a bubble wrap with your troops by placing them ~5" out from the FMC so that the pod cannot land between and the opponent will only be able to effectively engage the outer least valuable models. Still likely to end with a whole lot of damage though.

Reserving most of your army could also work but then you come in piece meal...

Master Shake wrote:I can't tell you how many times I've used the staff to manipulate the warp storm to my advantage. Anytime you roll a 6 on one of the dice, his re roll gives you a 50% chance of getting +1 invulnerable, killing a psyker, or getting a free unit.

I'm pretty sure I would pay 300pts for just his re roll in most games.

There used to be a brilliant article with the chances and everything and when to use the reroll both vs when to reroll 1 dice. It was out in 6ed. I cannot seem to find it now but fatey's ability to manipulate the table is an incredibly powerful ability in and of itself. Your case of Arhiman is an excellent example.

Yeah, Nurgle doesn't suffer as badly as Tzeentch and Slaanesh, but he's still something that's a huge annoyance. Even if he does infiltrate you'll be hard pressed to shoot him because psychic attacks don't hurt him. Beams do but otherwise.

It's not that he's hard to kill , its that if he get's the jump on you it can be absolutely devastating. You get GravCenturions or Bikers coming at you plus this guy just moved then ran up at you.

I usually kill him with auto hits from the screamers.

How many people are running assassins in a tournament build?

I don't play in tournaments but all of my friends who play Imperial try to find room in their List for either the Vindicare or Callidus. Cullexus if their playing me.

Played with Be'lakor and a Nurgle DP working Biomancy vs Ravenwing the other day.
Those two models almost singlehandedly won me that match. Every turn they each took out a unit of bikers, and both survived the game.
Lost on VP though since he was zooming around nabbing objectives and I saw red and mostly played to kill.

Didn't bother swooping Be'lakor at all, and the Nurgle Prince only on T1.

That was the Ravenwing player's first match vs FMCs, but while he won on VP it went poorly for him combat-wise. Do DA/Ravenwing have an answer to FMCs?

Back to the assassins...I don't have the data slate so forgive the ignorance. Assassins can infiltrate and move 6 per turn? The callidus is not going to do much to demon players and I am not sure the vindicare is super scary either as you can hide models outside of LOS that are important even in squads.

The Cullex has a 12 inch bubble that drops blessings and maledictions. That is awful I agree and you can only manifest on a 6. However, I am not sure how that stops a summoning list you have 4 flying models that can cast plus two squads of horrors. A question I have is with brotherhood of psykers I can choose who to manifest the power with. If one horror is within 12 I assume that horror manifests on a 6 but not the one that is 13 inches away? Is that a correct assumption? I know it comes from the unit champion to begin with etc but you should be able to keep it 12 inches away. The assassin at some point cannot be everywhere to stop you from casting and keeping up powers. If it is in a storm raven it might be turn 3 before it turns up and at that point you are fighting down over 350 points. In a 1500 point game that is not an insignificant amount and you could have so much on the board in 2-3 turns the assassin does not matter. If you tie it up with a squad (yes you might not kill it) but he is not moving for a few turns.

Do assassins get hit and run?

I personally think that a rule which should be enforced is the following:

If the enemy kills your Assassin, he has the right to take the model and crush it beneath his feet.

Seriously... Assassins.

What's the problem with assassins? If the culexus gets up in my bidness, I move away in the movement phase, manifest powers as normal in the psychic phase, and slash him to death with screamers in short order. Problem solved.

That's the way I've been handling him. No, the problem is Alpha Strike and the Cullexus being stuck in fliers as his 12 extends out from the hull which sucks. Vindicare has Precision shots, and a shot that ignores invulnerable along with a shot Turbo penetrator to cause D3 Wounds. It's not a pleasant thing to face he can in fact reliably put wounds on FMCs w/ D3 wounds. His weapon is AP2 , so you only get your invulnerable. He also can reliably penetrate Soul Grinders w/ ST10 AP2 shot that ignores cover if their Nurgle. So yeah he's not pleasant ot face.

None of the assassins are "OMG overpowered" they're very powerfun units but they are absolute pain in the ass to deal with if you ignore them.

It's just not pleasant.

Also, the Cullexus can move, fire , and run in the shooting phase.

 Vomikron Noxis wrote:
What's the problem with assassins? If the culexus gets up in my bidness, I move away in the movement phase, manifest powers as normal in the psychic phase, and slash him to death with screamers in short order. Problem solved.

Well... as a chaos player, I live to destroy any Imperium dogs I see. And the Assassins are on the same level as Grey Knights in my eyes (complete abominations). But on another note....I just hate assassins. Can really ruin my day sometimes.

Yeah, they can just really ruin your day is basically it. Especially the Vindicare firing off the D3 wounds one. It's just nasty.

I read a bat rep a bit ago where the daemon princes didn't take the armor, because they had a 1/3 chance to get it as a reward.

 gwarsh41 wrote:
I read a bat rep a bit ago where the daemon princes didn't take the armor, because they had a 1/3 chance to get it as a reward.

I believe that qualifies as idiocy.

Thanks for derailing my question NightWrench.
Some but not all of the assassins have hit & run. Culexus assassins are going to seriously hamper Daemon psyker heavy armies if we aren't all over the board. Plus they're reasonably difficult to put down.

 Laughingcarp wrote:
Thanks for derailing my question NightWrench.
Some but not all of the assassins have hit & run. Culexus assassins are going to seriously hamper Daemon psyker heavy armies if we aren't all over the board. Plus they're reasonably difficult to put down.

In your experience, how difficult is it to take an assassin out? They aren't that tanky in my experience. In fact, they are relatively squishy wouldn't you say?

The problem with the Cullexus is that shooting is pretty worthless, you need 6s to hit him then he ignores it on a 4+, so he's really annoying.

The problem with the Vindicare is he ignores cover, has AP2 , and is prob going to wound you.

So you get your 5++ and if you you fail D3 wounds.

Hollismason wrote:
The problem with the Cullexus is that shooting is pretty worthless, you need 6s to hit him then he ignores it on a 4+, so he's really annoying.

The problem with the Vindicare is he ignores cover, has AP2 , and is prob going to wound you.

So you get your 5++ and if you you fail D3 wounds.

That's an average of 1 wound a turn on a daemon prince (one who didnt get FNP or reroll invulns), and even then it's only if you are gliding.

Against a soul grinder it needs a 4+ to penetrate and a 5 to immobilise or a 6 explode. So he has a 1 in 12 chance of destroying your grinder, and another 1 in 12 chance (1 in 6 overall) of immobilising it (which could be just as bad) add in the 5+ invuln and it's a 1 in 8. Soul grinders have 4 HP and ignore shaken/stunned on a 2+ so he doesn't really need to worry too much about any of the other results (or glances).

I'm going to change the subject a little here.... How are Daemon FMC Lists dealing with vehicle heavy armies?

Since smash was nerfed, how are you taking out vehicles??

I would be worried about running into an Imperial Guard Parking Lot or a formation of 3 Knights.

Crystal-Maze wrote:

 Tyran wrote:
Why would you eliminate the warpstorm? I have found that it helps more than harms.

It can give major boons to your army, but all of the decent potential outcomes are mirrored on the table by terrible ones. Sure, Fateweaver grents re-rolls, but its still an element of chance that some players prefer to eliminate. It just means that the player dictates more of what happens in the game, rather than letting the dice decide.

In all of my games (hundreds) so far since the new Daemon codex, I've only had the Warp Storm screw me once or twice. Fateweaver's Warlord re-roll and single D6 re-roll per turn smooths out a lot of the randomness in the army. I have a rule of not re-rolling results of 7, and only rerolling results of 2,3 or 4. I will sometimes re-roll a single D6 if I haven't used Fatweweaver's single D6 re-roll yet though, but by the shooting phase I've usually already used it on the Grimoire, a reserve roll, adjusting a Psychic Shriek results, etc.

 AutarchRion wrote:
I'm going to change the subject a little here.... How are Daemon FMC Lists dealing with vehicle heavy armies?

Since smash was nerfed, how are you taking out vehicles??

I would be worried about running into an Imperial Guard Parking Lot or a formation of 3 Knights.

They're great. AB/FB greater gifts, S8 AP1 lance greater gift, and summoning. Plague bearers will eventually bring down a knight titan.

Personally, if I roll flesh bane armour bane a prince I try like hell to get iron arm so I can run around the board kicking knight titans in the dick. (With fateweaver using prescience on him)

 Master Shake wrote:

 AutarchRion wrote:
I'm going to change the subject a little here.... How are Daemon FMC Lists dealing with vehicle heavy armies?

Since smash was nerfed, how are you taking out vehicles??

I would be worried about running into an Imperial Guard Parking Lot or a formation of 3 Knights.

They're great. AB/FB greater gifts, S8 AP1 lance greater gift, and summoning. Plague bearers will eventually bring down a knight titan.

Personally, if I roll flesh bane armour bane a prince I try like hell to get iron arm so I can run around the board kicking knight titans in the dick. (With fateweaver using prescience on him)

I played a guy this weekend in a local tournament that was running the Adamantine Lance formation. I rolled Tzeentch powers on my two princes, and between them and Fateweaver I got first blood from one of his Knights. That one exploded and caused some damage to the other two, one of which was finished off by my Invisible Screamers, the other by Be'lakor.

The nice thing about Psychic shooting is being able to scoot around his shields. He can't reset them until the start of my shooting phase.

Hollismason nailed it, the Culexus only gets hit by snap-shots and has a 4++. Rather annoying.

undertow awesome to hear about the Adamantine Lance going down hard to your Daemons. How many Screamers you run to support your FMCs?

 Laughingcarp wrote:
Hollismason nailed it, the Culexus only gets hit by snap-shots and has a 4++. Rather annoying.

undertow awesome to hear about the Adamantine Lance going down hard to your Daemons. How many Screamers you run to support your FMCs?

At 1750 I run one squad of 7. They got Invisibility in turn 1, as well as keeping a model within 6" of Be'lakor for Shrouding. Then they were in combat with a Knight by turn 2, still invisible.

I've never had any problems with Knights.

Also, currently playing a FMC army but with the Helbrute Murder Pack Database.

It's super fun but super low model count starting off. Not really competitive.

Best investment I made was getting hold of the Helbrutes. It's a lot of fun to run a mechanized Chaos Daemon force.

Cheers undertow. At 1850 I'm planning on a unit of 6, maybe I'll try shuffle some pts around for more.

Hollismason; How do you kit out the Murderpack?

 AutarchRion wrote:

 Vomikron Noxis wrote:
What's the problem with assassins? If the culexus gets up in my bidness, I move away in the movement phase, manifest powers as normal in the psychic phase, and slash him to death with screamers in short order. Problem solved.

Well... as a chaos player, I live to destroy any Imperium dogs I see. And the Assassins are on the same level as Grey Knights in my eyes (complete abominations). But on another note....I just hate assassins. Can really ruin my day sometimes.

I like this statement. I feel the same for Eldar or Tau as well just not to the same extent.

@Laughingcarp

I didn't mean to derail your question. Ravenwing Blackknights and librarians rolling on Divinity. Twin linked ignoring cover plasma guns can ruin an FMC day, providing you get Perfect Timing.

@gwarsh41

If your meta is grav gun heavy or centstar heavy I could make an arguement for this too. Grav guns are awful if you have no armor other than your inv.

What is the biggest issue you guys run into against GK? Got a local dude I will probably end up playing in the campaign soon, sure he will tailor a bit if he knows he is fighting daemons. Doesn't seem too hard for GK to tailor anti daemons though.

 gwarsh41 wrote:
What is the biggest issue you guys run into against GK? Got a local dude I will probably end up playing in the campaign soon, sure he will tailor a bit if he knows he is fighting daemons. Doesn't seem too hard for GK to tailor anti daemons though.

With Force being subject to Deny the Witch and Warp Quake being removed, I don't think it's as uphill a battle as it was in 5th if a GK player decided to tailor against you. It might be harder to get your key blessings off, but you could just throw a few more dice at the really important ones. My army might suffer a bit with all of my shooting being Psychic, but you could tailor to him as well

I've not had difficulty with Grey Knights, just don't target them with Psychic Abilities.

I just use my FMCs as summoning platforms instead of beat sticks because of their ID stuff.

Overall it's not that difficult of a match up.

They can wreck you though if you are not careful and they get lucky.