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Belac Ynnead wrote:
So a funny thing happened to me the other day. I showed up for a 1500 point game at my local store with a list including some purifiers in a storm raven, combat squaded interceptors, the obligatory dreadknight, some termies, and an imperial knight - to serve as a bullet magnet and for ranged ap2.

When I got there I was informed that they'd increased the points limit to 1750, and that we were not going to include superheavies. (Trancendent C'tan the week before in a 1500 point list had ruffled some feathers)

So, I had about 600 points to add. I grumbled a bit at having to totally change my list, but was able to proxy in a friend's deathwing and just slotted in three terminator squads to my existing list.

A knight isn't a LoW, how did the LoW ban (dumb ban and everyone who does it is braindead, just ban the ctan specifically) effect you?

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Actually, our Stormraven got worse, not better. The loss of Mindstrike missiles hurts more than the loss of Psibolts, as Mindstrikes were definitely the best anti-Psykerstar weapon in the game when 7th hit. Without Mindstrikes, Psibolts, or Psychic Pilot, our SR is just a generic SM SR, and we might as well take the SM SR+ST formation rather than waste a fast slot on ours.

SJ

Disagree for other points made, on top of the fact all of our troops get Mindstrike Grenades now. Unlimited Mindstrike grenades

 BoomWolf wrote:

A knight isn't a LoW, how did the LoW ban (dumb ban and everyone who does it is braindead, just ban the ctan specifically) effect you?

Correct, a Knight isnt a LoW, what he said is that they banned all superheavies, of which a Knight is

the Psycannon was good because it could be run in large numbers and could be used mobile. Now it really can't.

Its the only weapon that made sense to take because it can take on vehicles which is what we need. But now you can't use it and assault unless you are a terminator, which means its main utility is gone. especially since Psybolts are also gone.

I love psycannons, but sadly the change has basically invalidated PAGKs.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
/quote]

Correct, a Knight isnt a LoW, what he said is that they banned all superheavies, of which a Knight is

Indeed he did, my mind automatically warped it to "LoW", as that's the common ban.

Disagree all you want, Wren, but making the SR generic did not improve it. Mindstrike grenades are nice, but Mindstrike missiles were far superior.

However, that a non-issue. Since there is no difference between SRs from codex to codex at the moment, then there is no reason to take a GK SR over the SM SR formation. Gets us Stormtalons and Stafe.

SJ

Loss of psybolts were the bigger hit to the raven than the mindstrikes.

They were good against psykers yes, but now the missles are good all around against mostly everything

It makes it better against vehicles, which is what GKs need, as opposed to psykers who GKs have no trouble with.

 Grey Templar wrote:
It makes it better against vehicles, which is what GKs need, as opposed to psykers who GKs have no trouble with.

Agreed. While I miss basically having a Psycannon on my Stormraven, I think the trade-off for Stormstrike Missiles is a buff. GK definitely need help cracking open armor, so now I may have a reason to field my Stormraven with Lascannon and Multi-Melta.

Yeah, I'm kinda pissed I glued my Assault cannons on. Now I need to dig through my bits to find the lascannon pieces.

Yea I'm glad I magnetized my Stormraven turret weapons

If memory serves, there's math somewhere about SR loadouts that finds MM + AC to be a better machine. Something about number of shots and rending being superior to the AP and Str differences on the LC.

Rending was superior if you had Psybolts. It also had the benefit of being able to attack infantry effectively too.

Without psybolts, they're roughly the same. And AP2 is a valuable thing to have access to.

Honestly if I was running 2 Ravens I would have one with lascannon and one with assault cannon.

Personally, I prefer the old stormravens. I guess twin-linked S5 bolters have grown on me.

I think we all preferred army wide ST5 bolters, but in the current codex, I believe the Stormstrikes are more valuable than the old mindstrikes. My chief complaint with this codex is the fact that there isn't much variation in list making. It seems there is only one decision to make; to Draigo or not to Draigo.

Lord Cornilius wrote:
My chief complaint with this codex is the fact that there isn't much variation in list making. It seems there is only one decision to make; to Draigo or not to Draigo.

Completely depends on your level of competitiveness. There isn't a single "hands off" unit in the book. Nothing that screams "pyrovore" And the same goes for all the weapons and wargear.

 ductvader wrote:

Lord Cornilius wrote:
My chief complaint with this codex is the fact that there isn't much variation in list making. It seems there is only one decision to make; to Draigo or not to Draigo.

Completely depends on your level of competitiveness. There isn't a single "hands off" unit in the book. Nothing that screams "pyrovore" And the same goes for all the weapons and wargear.

Purgation Squads, Purifiers can do the same job and be better in every way.

Unless you just want 5 models. Purgators do it cheaper, and with Night Vision.

Indeed - Purgation squads. They could be so cool. Maybe there's a use for them if you want to pack on four incinerators for the whole allied drop pod scheme. But still purifiers are probably better because of cleansing flame.

I'm also in the process of painting my Strikes' helmets white as I don't really want to bother with them anymore. If it's not a terminator, it's a purifier now for me.

I know the idea of units having unique powers just pisses GW off at the moment for some reason, but I think it's really hurt our codex. Sure, the new terminators are pretty cool, and dreadknight's wreck face. I get it. But was warp quake really that overpowered? It was fluffy, and cool.

Hell, bring back the old shrouding rule in some form for purgation squads and I could maybe figure out how to use them. That could have been fun. The codex works fine, but just so many opportunities were missed.

Shrouding, shrouding needs to be somewhere as an army wide rule.

GK units 30" from an enemy shooting get stealth or shrouded.

Similar to how it used to work with a new age twist.

 ductvader wrote:
Unless you just want 5 models. Purgators do it cheaper, and with Acute Senses.

Night Vision?

Besides why wouldn't I take Purifiers. Take ten combat squad 4 special weapons into one.

I now have 4 warp charges, 2 cleansing flames, 2 CC attacks pm, and 4 special weapons (290 if Incinerators, no melee upgrade)

Purgs we get 1 warp charge, NIGHT VISION, 1 CC attack, 4 special weapons (150 points if Incinerators, no melee upgrade for Sarge) oh and 5 less bodies

For a 140 point difference we get so much, and not in the Dreadknight slot.

With just looking at the codex and not having played a game with them yet, I'd say they look just fine and capable of doing some serious work.

I started out in 5th edition with pure GK's, and then started adding in inquisition. Losing inquisition doesn't really bother me, especially since you can use them as allies.

Strike knights I think are still good, I just think terminators are a better choice. And the idea of painting your strikes helmets white? Good idea, because purifiers are still awesome.

As a player who has multiple armies, Im happy with the new grey knights codex. I think if your nitpicking, yeah you can find stuff, but you can find ways around the small inconveniences.

Quickjager wrote:

For a 140 point difference we get so much, and not in the Dreadknight slot.

And that is the dealbreaker. Its the reason Purgation squads have never been used.

I used Purgation squads. two units of them. when they changed their power, I changed them to Purifiers.