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Nothing beats my SM lines like Dark Reapers... They can pierce power armor with a dozen shots, destroy vehicles with S8 (spare Bright Lances throughout the rest of the army make taking a LR much less attractive), and the Exarch has Skyfire rockets, ALL of these can also ignore Jink saves. So far, I've seen that my only chance to kill them (as they also have 3+ armour saves) is to assault them with a power weapon. What is the most effective unit to do so with? I don't have any bikes, by the way, and keep in mind that he also has an entire army which usually includes a Wraithlord, Fire Dragons, Dire Avengers, etc. That Bladestorm would shred up any Terminators that I tried to throw back there, and I can't get close enough with a LR without 5 Bright Lances shooting at me the whole way.

Eldar in General tend to be less about defense and more about strategic attack. A good Eldar play will surgically dismantle your army. So that is the Mental note you need to remember when dealing with Eldar.

As for Dark Reapers. the only have a 3+ so they do die to massed fire like regular marines but difference is the are T3 so more wounds.

i know they are more expensive now but assault Termies with TH/SS do not care about blade storm.

The other good unit is LotD if you want an infintry killing squad that is cheep you can just take 5. You can always throw in a HB or PG. Since they have a 3++ again Blade store is not an issue. They are also easy to convert just paint them black with some skulls and flames.

As Mali mentions, they are 1W, T3 3+ models, and outside of Fortune, will die to sufficient boltguns. At 30 points per model (more if upgraded), it's 2-3x more efficient than killing Marines with boltguns. If they are not in cover, things like Battlecannons will wipe them out.

I play chaos, so i have ap3 from baledrake, Thousand Sons inferno bolter, Noise Marine blast master, and defiler battle cannon.

I ask you loylists, what ap3 weapons do you have? Do you also have access to ignore cover weapons?

It's difficult for me to trudge through the rest of his army to even bring the bolters to bear... The Reapers are also ALWAYS in a ruin on an objective, and this guy seems really lucky in rolling for the stupid Scatterfield... That has happened the last 3 times I've played him. He has also been playing for a long time, and almost always against some flavor of SM, so his army is tailored to fight them.


As for AP3 weapons, I think Vengeance Rounds are about it. Of course, there are plenty of AP2 ones.

Thunderfire cannon works well, all you have to do is force a few saves and they will start dropping like flies. Barrage also lets you snipe out their Exarch, who is running at nearly 50pts (!) for a single wound 3+ save model, make him pay for it. It's also cheap enough to fit into any list and after Dark Reapers are handled they also are extremely scary to almost all Eldar infantry,

How's your list?

As said, DR's go down as soon as you will target them.

What sized unit does he run? Does he back them up with a Farseer or a Spiritseer?

 Quanar wrote:
What sized unit does he run? Does he back them up with a Farseer or a Spiritseer?

They come in units of 3 to 5.
Back up could be done with a Farseer giving them fortune.
But there are better targets for this precious power.

Just hope he doesn't put them into an imperial bunker. It's really tough if they suddenly have a AV14 case. Also Fast Shot doubles an Icarus' shots.

For unshielded Reapers I have to say that almost everything hurts. High number of shots vs. T3 leads is even with 3+ quite some points lost, and the squads are usually not that big. Deep striking things are also a good tool, though suicide most of the times probably. However, most suicide units will get their points back vs. Dark Reapers.

lol clicked on thread thinking it was a joke.
Shoot them. With anything. And they die. Pretty simple.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 Quanar wrote:
What sized unit does he run? Does he back them up with a Farseer or a Spiritseer?

They come in units of 3 to 5.

Actually 3-10

He always runs 5. You say "shoot them with anything and they die" as if its a simple thing to go through Dire Avengers w/ Farseer, a Guardian pit, Fire Dragons, a Wave Serpent, a Crimson Hunter, and a Wraithlord. He knows how vulnerable, expensive, and effective his Reapers are, thus he protects them at nearly all costs. Killing off most of my units just to GET to them won't work.

Do you have a Thunderfire? They work great in situations like these.

 Ninjakk wrote:
He always runs 5. You say "shoot them with anything and they die" as if its a simple thing to go through Dire Avengers w/ Farseer, a Guardian pit, Fire Dragons, a Wave Serpent, a Crimson Hunter, and a Wraithlord. He knows how vulnerable, expensive, and effective his Reapers are, thus he protects them at nearly all costs. Killing off most of my units just to GET to them won't work.

Do you have a drop pod? And ten tactical?
Problem solved.
The good news is he isnt using a very competitive list, so if yours is good you should really have no problem.

I don't have a Thunderfire, and I know from experience that one salvo from 10 marines in a drop pod MIGHT kill 2 of the Reapers. Mathematically shouldn't happen, but it always does. After that one salvo, those marines are guaranteed goners. If even just the Exarch survives, he alone is enough to hassle anything else that I have. So, I'll have reduced the squad to an Exarch that will still probably kill my flier(s), and I am down 1 full Tactical Squad.

Drop the marines into the cover with the reapers. Better a 3+ dangerours terrain than a no save return volley. Reapers with star shot are 38 points each. You can tie them up in CC, kill them with a heavy flamer speeder, ironclad, etc. An iron clad is immune to almost anything not anti-tank. Two heavy flamers should hit every model twice, wound T3 on 2's, and reapers only get a 3+ so they'll lose 2/3 of thje squad. If its a 3 man squad, try to hit another squad too if any are nearby and if you kill 3 or more, you've made yoru points back given that the IC and pod still need to be taken out.

An iron clad in a pod is a good answer to just about anything really. TFC is great but if you can't buy one, a home brew whirlwind turret is easy enough to slap on a rhino chassi for 65 points if the slot is free.

Make sure to use LoS blocking terrain and cover too, no reason you can't put a ruin in midfield to move into/DS on if your list calls for it. Reapers ARE good vs jinkers, but at 38 ea +exarch point, are over priced and fragile for anything else if they're not in a bastion, at which point the flamers are even more useful. If you walk your 3+ guys out in the open, they will wreck you, but you shouldn't be doing that anyway. The Exarch skyfire doesn't convey to the rest of the squad so it's a very sub-optimal AA choice and RAW, in seventh it means the exarch can't shoot ground targets except at BS1 unless they are:
"shooting at Flyers, Flying Monstrous Creatures and Skimmers"

Note that a hovering flyer/FMC still has that unit type for RAW purposes.

Whirlwind plus/minus a thunderfire cannon will put those wounds down,

Its no good saying he just rolls saves, he rolls saves because you aren't laying the numbers down to force failed rolls.

The Exarch takes the choice of firing his Flakk missiles, though, and can just fire Starshot missiles at anything that isn't flying. I'm going to try to Drop my Ironclad next to him to see what happens. Last 2 times I've done that, though, (against Orks) it got wrecked. The first time, I was trying to delay his Green Tide and he Immobilized the Ironclad with a Rokkit before charging (hit on 5+, 6 to penetrate, 6 to immobilize)... The second time, I whiffed in CC against his Morkanought and got annihilated. Assuming the Eldar player doesn't just U-turn his Wave Serpent-riding Fire Dragons to take out the Ironclad, I should take out the Reapers easily, although I won't be too surprised to see at least 1 glance and 1 penetrating hit with his six S8 shots...

I also have don't have a Whirlwind, nor the funds to obtain one OR a TFC.

 Ninjakk wrote:
I don't have a Thunderfire, and I know from experience that one salvo from 10 marines in a drop pod MIGHT kill 2 of the Reapers. Mathematically shouldn't happen, but it always does. After that one salvo, those marines are guaranteed goners. If even just the Exarch survives, he alone is enough to hassle anything else that I have. So, I'll have reduced the squad to an Exarch that will still probably kill my flier(s), and I am down 1 full Tactical Squad.

Let me clear some things up for you.
Dark reaper weaknesses:
-Dont ingore cover
-Die crazy easily
-are expensive
-They suck at anti air.


Dark reapers arent a competitive choice, so theres some really easy counters to them.
a) like I said above, a tactical squad coming down with a plasma gun, and a combi plasma will demolish the unit. He must have extreme good rolls, or yours just plain suck, because the average guys killed is 4-5. Thats leaving one guy. And a 190(ish) point unit for a 230 point one. Lets say you do only kill two. Then he shoots back with 3 guys, and we'll be even more generous by saying that the exarch is stlil alive. 11 shots, 8 hits, 5 wounds, (assuming everyones in cover) 2-3 wounds. 2-3 dead marines. And your scared about this why?

Their anti air is some of the worst eldar have. 2 strength 7 missiles? You should laugh.
You should also be glad he is taking dark reapers. Better he take one of those then something thats competitive.

Dont try and convince us that dark reapers are amazing. There not.

It is NEVER 2-3 dead marines. It's all 10 because either Dire Avengers or Fire Dragons immediately pop out of a nearby Wave Serpent to annihilate them. At best, I may be left with 2 marines from that squad left by the end of turn 2.

When those 2 S7 missiles hit on a 2+ and ignore jink, they aren't so laughable. Even less so considering that every time he DOES dedicate a shooting phase to aiming at a Stormtalon with Dark Reapers, it dies.

I'm not trying to convince anyone of the merits, or lack thereof, of Dark Reapers. I'm sure that everyone has that one unit that they just can't seem to get around. This is mine.

He's not taking constructive criticism, time to move along everybody.

I play dark elder, all my guys die like you claim yours do, deal with it. It makes you a better player.

I agree. It sounds rather like the OP has a general problem strategy and playing. It is easy to blame unbalanced units, but if you have problems with each and every situation you might want to think about general wargame strategies.

The best hint I can give you is: take his units and play against your own list. If he doesn't have the same problems as you do you might agree that it is not the units.

What is your army list? So far I've seen a Drop pod with basic marines (no upgrades?). A drop pod with an ironclad. And a Stormtalon.

What is your opponent's list?

Drop ten sternguard in a pod. That should clear up the reapers.

Try plasma loadouts in your marines (plasma gun, combi-plasma, if they're drop-podding).

10 marines out of a pod should decimate 5 dark reapers. 16 rapid-fire boltgun shots = + 4 plasma shots averages 4.6 kills (by my admittedly rubbish mathematics).

You could have one marine throw a krak grenade too I think (instead of firing his boltgun). Then your chance goes up to 4.9 kills.

Let's say for the sake of argument you only kill two. Those remaining three then fire and kill six marines. Next turn, you have four marines firing bolt pistols and charging into close combat... Those reapers will be very dead.

Bringing other units into the equation is bad practice - you could equally say, after the fire dragons disembark, your terminators teleport in and kill them in a hail of assault cannon and storm bolter fire.

I will agree with this though - Eldar armies can be very powerful, and Dark Reapers are excellent against MEQ units. However, the SM codex has access to things to tip the balance - Centurions, Sterngaurd squads in Drop Pods and Tacs in objective secured Rhinos, Stormtalons and Thunderfire cannons (which btw there are excellent replacements for the admittedly expensive GW models - check out the hailstorm cannon by mantic games).

A squad of DRs costs a lot, leaving the rest of the list wanting.

But, if the Reapers are in cover, try drop-podding Sternguard with combi-flamers. They'll get to roll saves, but enough S4 hits will hurt. The Sergeant could lob in Krak or Frag grenade for some more damage.

Terminators with Stormshields and LC [models] should survive the first turn they arrive, and tear them apart. Eldar don't like getting punched, and LCs rip through DR armour. Get them close with a Land Raider if you want to keep them tucked away until the charge.

Use Centurions to walk up to them, and their 2+ saves should get them quite close. Put a Librarian in with them for real damage when they get there.

Do you mean mix and matching th/ss and LC terminators? Because vanilla terminators can't run with a claw and shield. That's space wolf territory.

 Barrywise wrote:
He's not taking constructive criticism, time to move along everybody.

I do, actually, take the criticism and tips. I am going to try again with everything that has been suggested. I was simply saying that I have tried a couple of these, and they ended terribly. The previous conclusions were likely my fault, I admit, which is why I will be trying again. I thank everyone for their input, and I plan on having my opponent waste his points on the Reapers very soon.

One of my earliest games in 6th was with my eldar against my friend's dark angels. He had a captain, couple of tac squads, plasma cannon devastators, a bike squad and a terminator squad (deep striking), with a land raider.

I had two farseers, striking scorpions, fire dragons in a wave serpent, guardians in a wave serpent, dire avengers, a fire prism, a unit of dark reapers and a wraithlord.

MVP that game was definitely the reapers - I set them up in ruins, Guided them on turn 1 and pretty much wiped his Devastator squad out. That then gave them free reign for most of the game to dominate via long-range firepower. He wasted his best defence against them - teleporting in terminators - to get first blood on my striking scorpions. He said after the game he should really have gone for the Reapers instead, which would have made a huge difference as every turn I was dropping 5-6 marines with them.

I'll second the Sternguard pod.