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Made in us
Ork Boy Hangin' off a Trukk





I'm thinking about picking up an old copy of blood bowl, then picking up two teams. I'd have it basically like a boardgame at my house that I can pick up and play at any point.

So I need some recommendations for two teams that would be balanced to play against each other repeatedly. I was thinking about orks vs humans just because that seems to be the most iconic matchup, but are there any other recommendations?
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut



London

As starting teams? Or with skills? For what level of ability? Do you want strongly contrasting teams?
   
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Ork Boy Hangin' off a Trukk





huh. To be perfectly honest, I hadn't thought that far yet. I was simply asking for a recommendation of two teams that people generally consider to be at nearly the same level of performance. Two teams that would be fun to play against each other repeatedly, where one would not have a distinct advantage over the other.

But it's beginning to be apparent that this is a much more involved question than I probably have time for right now.

These were really just pipe dreams but I think I'll put them back on the back burner and come back to it in a few years or so...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/16 20:06:20


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



London

I ask the first bit simply because team performance change with skills. So starting team wise Undead are excellent but they fall behind as teams develop for example...

There are three 'categories' of teams in Bloodbowl - Agility teams that play the ball, Bash teams that beat up the man and Hybrid teams that do a bit of both but not as well. In the long run Hybrid teams tend to suffer but in the short run are competitive.

There are also 'tiers' of teams. 1st/top team teams are things high elves, then you have the next grouping often referred to as 1.5 tier, which are the ones that statistically don't do as well as the top tier teams over time, then the second tier teams which are ones like Vampires or Underworld giving a genuine challenge through in built flaws, then 3rd tier teams which are just awful but very challenging like Halflings, Goblins and Ogres.

Where a team sits also changes through development, so for example most coaches would regard humans as a 2nd tier team in a developed league, while Chaos would have moved from being a 1.5 tier team to top tier.

My preference for two teams would be Skaven (speed, agility, but not elf levels) vs Undead (bash, some agility) as giving a varied selection of play styles and options and progressing in a fairly similar way.
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

If you want 2 equally matched teams for just pickup games, you'll need to go with some of the following matchups.

Elves vs Elves(any variety)

Elves are the best basic team simply because of high agility. They can pretty much run roughshod over all other teams if you don't have any upgrades of experience. Only teams that can compete with elves are really Lizardmen and Chaos(and only once upgrades/mutations are available)

Lizardmen/Empire/Dwarves/Norse/Goblins/Chaos would also make a decent matchup between any of them.

Undead/Vampires are lower than the above teams but can still have a good showing with an experienced player.

Ogres and Halflings are just terrible.

I played a game against halflings once with lizardmen. 80% of the halfling roster was dead at the end of the game. Not injured, dead! Only 3 halflings were able to play at the end of the game, and they only lived because the game ended before I could kill them all.

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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



London

I wouldn't nessecerily agree with regard to elves

http://member.thenaf.net/index.php?module=NAF&type=statistics
These are the NAF rankings for tourney teams. Note such teams tend to have very few skills beyond what players start with.

The top 5 are
Undead Wins 56.69% W 9045 D 4644 L 6362 Total played 20051
Wood Elves Wins 55.38% W 8579 D 3732 L 6551 Total played 18862
Amazons Wins 53.74% W 4414 D 2345 L 3637 Total played 10396
Lizardmen Wins 53.54% W 5219 D 2479 L 4366 Total played 12064
Dwarves Wins 52.79% W 7937 D 4392 L 6867 Total played 19196
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






The ruins of the Palace of Thorns

I spent a long time playing online at ukbbl.co.uk and it was generally established that lin the long term, Dark Elves can be considered a true top-tier team. Orcs tended to do well sometimes. Chaos Dwarfs have been great in their first few seasons. Lizardmen are competitive. Necromantic (NOT Undead or Khemri) are pretty damn great...

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Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




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i'D have to say in response to grey templar that lizardmen vs dwarfs is like pulling teeth as it basically makes skinks into auto victims, tackle and block is not a lizards friend.

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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



London

 Fifty wrote:
I spent a long time playing online at ukbbl.co.uk and it was generally established that lin the long term, Dark Elves can be considered a true top-tier team. Orcs tended to do well sometimes. Chaos Dwarfs have been great in their first few seasons. Lizardmen are competitive. Necromantic (NOT Undead or Khemri) are pretty damn great...


Yes balance shifts over time and online teams can perform very differently due to different journeymen rules and fewer stars.
   
Made in ca
Junior Officer with Laspistol





London, Ontario

Orcs are probably the simplest team to get started with, are tough enough to not succumb to injury, and with a wide spread of players to choose from... I was always at the top of my leagues when playing them.

Humans are the Space Marines of Bloodbowl. They have to adapt their play to their opponent. If the opponent is tough, play agility. If the opponent is agile, play smash-face.

Lizardmen are a solid team, with obvious bashers and ballers, and I think they're one of the better "starter" teams, because they force you to play both aspects of the game.

Dwarves are good if a player REALLY doesn't like throwing the ball. If the player plays a couple of games, and finds that they feel throwing the ball is too unreliable, Dwarves are for them.


I find that all four of those teams are pretty well balanced. Lizardmen are probably the toughest of them to play, but as soon as the Saurus get Block, and a couple of Skinks get sure hands, you're laughing.


In all honesty, Elves never did well, in the long run, in our leagues. Once a given elf got too good for comfort, people started taking tackle and BOOM! Crippled elf.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



London

Humans aren't really the space marines... Most leagues find them underpowered, especially as leagues progress. They lack players who can make things happen and the loss of skills on a developed team is very hard to recover from. Rather be a high or dark elf! (The big advantage of elves is anyone can score so targeting skill development is very easy compared to most teams.)
   
Made in us
Ruthless Interrogator





Ann Arbor, MI

Two well-matched teams I would recommend: Orcs and Undead. They have different enough playstyles that it won't feel like you're both playing the same team, and both have counters to each others' strengths. I've always enjoyed this pairing as, in my experience, it always leads to a hard-fought, strategic match in which both sides should have an equal chance at coming out on top. It also helps that it's easy to find and/or kitbash models for either team because of their extensive ranges in 40k/WHFB.

The starter box does come with Humans and Orcs but, as others have said, Humans are a fairly difficult team to master. Not to say they can't hang with top tier teams (they've won several major events after all), but I just can't recommend them for beginners.

Other "beginner" teams I'd recommend: Dwarves, Chaos Dwarves, Lizardmen, Amazons, Norse, or any Elf team. Can't really go wrong if you choose from the above list (although, maybe avoid pairing Amazons with the Dwarf teams...all that Tackle can be very frustrating for a rookie Amazon coach.)
   
Made in ca
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!





For a "Board game" ( open the box, play a game with what's in it, no league, no experience) I would say Human versus Orc is really good. Both team are not "stuck" with only one style of play. (passing or running)

Plus, if you buy the box, you get two "cheat" sheet for those team, making the game easier for people who don't know the game.




 
   
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Norse vs Amazons

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Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





A lot of this advice is accurate for teams played by veterans, but I'm not sure it's that accurate for players who are starting out. Elf teams, for instance, are extremely good, but a lot of their strengths aren't fully exploited by players with only a handful of games under their belt. Similarly Lizardmen teams can dominate, but they are a really tough team to learn to play, and an absolutely brutal team to try and learn the game with.

Honestly, I'd opt for humans and orks, they're not only pretty well balanced against each other, they also play the game closest to the norm and so are good teams to learn the general strategies with.

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MN (Currently in WY)

There was a reason the boxset came with Orcs and Humans. I suggest those two for board game style of play.

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Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut




Building a blood in water scent

Yeah, Orcs vs Humans are the "training wheels" teams. Very versatile and forgiving to learn with. Frankly, some of the posters in here are talking bollocks. "Elves" are NOT auto-win.

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Made in gb
Ambitious Acothyst With Agonizer




To be honest i would worry less about balance and more about fun, and contrast in styles


Chaos Dwarves are a good all round team with hard CD blockers, hob goblins and centaurs - they can play a running game against a hitting opponent and a hitting game against a running opponent and have the skill and speed to do both.

Skaven are a good fun team to play with, although a little fragile - but gutter runners are fast.





 
   
Made in us
1st Lieutenant





Klamath Falls, OR

Skaven are a good way to never get a first timer to play again if you make them face them. I'd go with orcs vs humans because they're easy to learn & if you build them up using rules like the team composition rules for the west coast quake for example then there's lots of room for different play styles. Further the humans have access to some really top star players. I can only speak for varag ghoul chewer for the orcs but he's pretty badass himself.

   
 
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